Author Topic: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.  (Read 1741 times)

Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« on: 16-01-2012, 09:01:16 »
Anti-tank rifles are my favorite kinds of weapons in FH2, just as they were in FH1, and I read through every thread in this section and didn't see any threads that were specifically for these rifles (as opposed to other methods of dealing with armor). So I'm hoping to make a thread to discuss tips and tactics for using AT rifles, get some questions answered, and so on. Chip in and don't be shy.

A few questions I've got to start us off: (I know a lot of these seem like they might be answered by in game practice, but I've probably got 10 hours of practice with the Boys rifle done already and I'm hoping this thread can both teach people new things they didn't know about AT rifles as well as confirming things you've never been sure of).

1 - I've used AT rifles for killing infantry plenty of times in the couple of days I've been playing FH2 but often it seems one or two shots miss a perfectly stationary soldier. I've read in other threads people talking about how excellent the Boys and Pzb are for 'sniping' but so far no luck in that for me. Sure it's effective if you hit someone, but even aiming in the same spot on someone's body it still takes three or four shots to get one hit. Is the rifle less accurate than a normal rifle, or is it just a practice thing?

2 - I haven't practiced much long distance shooting with AT rifles yet, how does the bullet drop compare to a normal rifle like a No4? What's the deviation like? Does a shot from an AT rifle penetrate more armor the closer you are, or is it the same penetration at 20m as at 200m?

3 - I think in real life the Pzb has slightly better armor penetration than the Boys rifle. Is this the same in game? Is there a noticeable difference or, if there is one, is it so small that it doesn't really matter?

4 - I should probably know this just from reading books on WW2 vehicles by now but real world knowledge doesn't mean anything if you don't have confirmation of the way something's represented in game. I know the turret cupola is a weak spot, but are there other weak spots? Tracks, vision ports, hatches, engine covers, exhaust? What are the weak spots? We all know the front is stronger than the sides, the sides stronger than the rear, the top and bottom weaker still, but what are some specific parts to aim for? I smacked seven shots off the front of a Pz II on Tobruk earlier tonight and it only blew up on the seventh shot, while other times it's gone up in two rounds. What's the deal?

5 - From messing around in single player I still can't really tell if a round is penetrating a vehicle or not. I think that if you fire and get no hit indicators, you either missed or the round didn't penetrate, and if you get hit indcators, you're doing damage. Is this correct?

6 - I think I've read a bit about how in FH2, the angle of impact for tank shells can stop a round penetrating or do less damage than it would have if the round hit squarely. Do bullets, specifically AT bullets, act the same way?

I hope someone can answer at least a few of these for the benefit of everyone, and just shoot the breeze generally about AT rifles. Which do you prefer? Do you keep the kit with the sticky bomb as an Allied AT soldier or ditch it if you find one of the kits with a thermos? What are your favorite targets? Jeeps or static guns or what?

Don't be shy, let's get a good discussion going.
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Offline ajappat

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #1 on: 16-01-2012, 10:01:15 »
Accuracy and bullet drop are bit mystery for myself too. When shooting at long distances, in crete for good example, I either seem to always miss or round loses its power and does not penetrate. And often when shooting infantry at medium distance, I see hit indicator, but still don't get a kill. Does it lose power to even kill infantry or does the round drop faster than I think and actually hit the ground right infront of enemy, making splash damage to him? I suspect there is splash damage in AT rifles because it hurts me to shoot directly under me  ::).

Oh the great mysteries of AT rifles

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #2 on: 16-01-2012, 12:01:33 »
Some info:
The Boys rifle will penetrate 25mm, the PzB39 will do 30mm.  The penetration does not change with range.  The damage drops off from 100% down to 31% between 100 and 200 metres.

As to weak spots: generally they are not modelled on the tanks.
Concerning angles: a shot hitting at 60 or more degrees from perpendicular will have less damage than it would otherwise (dropping as the angle increases).  This does not affect penetration.
Concerning hit indicators: they appear when you do damage.  A non-penetrating hit or miss will not show.  A penetrating hit (even if the damage is 0 due to high angle) will show.
Concerning the Pz II: bear in mind that the Ausf.C version has thinner armour than the Ausf.F version.

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #3 on: 16-01-2012, 19:01:50 »
Anti tank rifles were a bit outdated in North africa. Only the russians could kept theirs up to date untill 1943

Here's some help:
PZB39 can:
-Penetrate anything under a sherman.
-Thus crusader MKI(Sides and rear) (Not MKIII), Cruiser MKIV, Vickers light tank, and any other soft skinned vehicle like bren carrier or a truck

Boys can:
-Penetrate PZIV in the butt and the PZII  from any sides, exept for the ausf F.And anything soft skinned below that
-Italian tanks from the sides and rear, front is questionable on the Lighter ones, M13/40 is impenetratble frontally and side IIRC


The best tactic is NOT to use anti-tank rifles against anything heavier then a light tank. Stay hidden and use that sweet sticky bomb or Gebalte ladung
« Last Edit: 16-01-2012, 20:01:39 by Flippy Warbear »
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Offline Slayer

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #4 on: 16-01-2012, 22:01:49 »
1 - The rifle is less accurate than a normal rifle.
2 - Same penetration, less damage.
3 - Yes.
4 - Weak spots: see posts below. Remember that sometimes you might be shooting at a previously dmaged vehicle so it blows up easier.
5 - Yes.
6 - No

Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #5 on: 17-01-2012, 18:01:50 »
Good replies so far! I knocked out a Panzer IV on one of the desert maps the last night, five shots to the ass and up she went. I think it might've taken a hit from a 2-pounder as well but it was more luck than anything else. I'd been taking pot shots and anything light that zoomed by and only had one clip left when it rolled by me. Then later on Tobruk I sent two Hanomags and one Panzer II to the great respawn screen in the sky before my first death. Anti-tank all round and finished second or third in the team. So far sticky bombs are best used for me when infantry spots me and someone's chasing me, so I smack one on a wall or the ground high tail it out of there once in a while I time it right and someone's close enough when it goes off.
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Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #6 on: 17-01-2012, 22:01:02 »
PZIV's rear armor is only 20mm

Boys penetrates 25mm and PZB 39 (or 40?)
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Offline Watchtower1001

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #7 on: 20-01-2012, 03:01:57 »
I think AT Rifles should have tracers. Or at the very least, the tracer bounce animation like shells do when hitting certain objects at certain angles.  Larger and more visible sparks and smoke at the point of impact, and louder impact sounds.   At least then we'd know it's hitting the damn vehicle.

To anyone that would argue that isn't historically accurate:  To that I say: (1) We are playing a game, and (2) this game already has more historical inaccuracies when it comes to weaponry that I care to speak of. 


As a tank, because the sounds of a AT Rifle is so weak and puny, especially with a loud engine, you can't ever hear where they are coming from, there isn't any kind of long distance viewable flash or smoke, and, as one working on sounds...I've seen a few videos of the Boys AT rifle being fired, to get an idea of what it sounded like...and man...this game is missing some serious beef in that regard too.

So lets recap:

-We can't ever see the round, where it's going or where it's coming from
-There are no tracers and very poorly visible impact effects showing it hitting or bouncing off a target
-We can barely hear it above the sound of a engine
-It is not as accurate as a bolt-action rifle so it's difficult to judge where the bullet is going
-Damage reduction occurs by distance under the hood, and we have no where to go to find that information except making a forum post.

Sounds like the weapon needs some serious tweaking.


People, like myself, get confused as to whether a weapon is working because the game is not providing enough information to get a sense of what is going on.  Point in case - this thread exists. 

Part of good game design is giving enough feedback to the player, in whatever shape or form - visual, audio, other, to tell them what they are trying to do is working as intended, even if it is technically working as coded and designed beforehand.  Sacrifice historical accuracy for the sake of a better player experience and at the end of the day, the game is better for it.

Tracers and better sounds & muzzle flash (1p, 3p & Distant) would work miracles and restore (i think) some balance to the target being fired at.
« Last Edit: 20-01-2012, 03:01:22 by Watchtower1001 »
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Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #8 on: 20-01-2012, 15:01:54 »
Watchtower your suggestion would make AT rifles even more useless IMHO. Right now they're just fine, if you damage your target you get the hit indicator, if not, try again.

In the current state it's quite a pain to kill anything below a light transport or a light tank with them, and if they had tracers to tell everyone from where you are shooting or made loud sound so every tank instantly knows they are being hit and escape you wouldn't be able to even damage most of the armor before they take you out.
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #9 on: 20-01-2012, 22:01:00 »
I can't speak for anyone else but for someone who plays as AT inf as often as possible I would gladly trade a huge muzzle flash and a louder firing sound for 50% better accuracy over distance.
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Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #10 on: 21-01-2012, 14:01:20 »
Watchtower is right in that there probably should be some kind of impact graphic to show you hit. However, tracers would indeed make the weapon useless.

Offline psykfallet

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #11 on: 23-01-2012, 21:01:48 »
Effective range seems to be around max 50m. after that it deviates like hell. But light tanks would be useless if you could just be a tiny pixel in the distance sniping them off.



Offline Natty

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Re: Anti-tank rifles, questions and tactics.
« Reply #12 on: 26-01-2012, 23:01:14 »
Point 5.

possibly one of the most important notices in the feedback section we've had. I can tell you Im currently working a lot on the feedback & communication when it comes to combat. If you hit, if it damaged, if you got hit, when you are damaged etc.. all this is what makes mediocre vehicle combat turn in to great vehicle combat.
I have a thumb-rule that I work with which says that a player wont care if his weapons cant damage an enemy, as long as the game clearly informs him that he can't. So just like you mentioned in point 5, we dont tell you clear enough if the AT rifle is damaging the tank you fire at, so that's a fail from our side, and Ill do my best to make this communication go through.
The image of a player wasting his time because of a design flaw is haunting to any designer. :)

and oh, from point 4. the answer is No. You "shouldnt" know anything from any book to enjoy this mod. We are the ones that "should", tell you what happens when you play. If you know stuff from books, that's fine, it can even enrichen the game for you, but you should also be able to have fun in (and understand) FH2 just by running around and play.

Thanks for a well written feedback thread :)
« Last Edit: 26-01-2012, 23:01:12 by Natty »