"Ban" limited kits in Armored Vehicles

[hOMEr_jAy]

Djinn, I´m no expert on WW2 tanker training, but common sense (and my limited knowledge about tanking I got from my uncle who was a Leopard commander in the Bundeswehr) tells me that if you´re tank got damaged by incoming fire, the crew won´t stay inside, with the engine running and ammo loaded into the gun, especially while theres a fire burning, as you strangely said.

Repairing a tank in the field is hard work and requires the strenght of the whole crew, so I personally find your arguments a bit flawed...

[THeTA0123]

A crew of 5 man can repair thing like tracks, damaged optics, some broken parts and such

but if a shell ripped your engine apart, or vital power supplies........you can forget it

[Natty]

First of all our wrenches are a joke, takes waayy to long to repair any vehicle.
second of all a tanker kit with internal repair wouldnt be instantly ofcourse.. it could take some time, you'd just be able to drive in to safety, or prepare a new assault, shoot etc..

I dont care about the lulz, but the wrench in BFH works pretty sweet. It will repair your tank - but over time - and if you get damaged during the repair process, the repair process is terminated. It means you still need to 'retreat' in to cover and wait for the heal, but you dont need to do a silly bail and whip out some universal magic wand and stroke your tank gently for a minute. :p The heal also doesnt bring you to full health, it gives you for example 100 HP and if a full tank has 180 HP, you need to be clever when to use it. You dont want to waste it unless you are actually below 80 HP (in that case you'll waste heal points) but you also dont want to gamble and go down to critical damage.
To me, that is more "tactics" then just press W and blow up, or take one hit and have to drive 2 minutes away, bail, wrench and get shot while wrenching, or waste minutes of game play for no reason.

naah, this stuff is old and arbitratry, we'd do good with some redesign in this department.

[MaJ.P.Bouras]

Just do it like in BF1942, problem solved!!!

[LuckyOne]

To me, that is more "tactics" "gamey" then just press W and blow up, or take one hit and have to drive 2 minutes away, bail, wrench and get shot while wrenching, or waste minutes of game play for no reason.

Fixed that for ya... And please don't even try to come up with those smartass "widgets" that ruined BFH 

The way I see it the current system is perfect. It kinda simulates tanks being out of action until they get repaired or you just charge in and hope the enemy will miss his shot. The only problem is that it sometimes causes "unfair" gameplay such as SL in tank with a full squad of engineers... But as most of the tanks are 1shotkilled by something usually available on the map it balances out.

[hitm4k3r]

To me, that is more "tactics" "gamey" then just press W and blow up, or take one hit and have to drive 2 minutes away, bail, wrench and get shot while wrenching, or waste minutes of game play for no reason.

Fixed that for ya... And please don't even try to come up with those smartass "widgets" that ruined BFH 

The way I see it the current system is perfect. It kinda simulates tanks being out of action until they get repaired or you just charge in and hope the enemy will miss his shot. The only problem is that it sometimes causes "unfair" gameplay such as SL in tank with a full squad of engineers... But as most of the tanks are 1shotkilled by something usually available on the map it balances out.

And I ask myself again, is Natty actually playing the same game like we do? How is staying in a tank and auto repair/heal more tactical than looking for cover to repair the tank from the outdide, not being able to shoot and the need of a good situational awareness and self defense? You must be dreaming or haven't played your own game for a long time. The system you explained, helps those hardcore tank whores to camp even more on choke points and kill the fun for the other team. As mentioned before. The current system is perfect. BF1942 system would also be suitable. The question was more about how to avoid people driving in tanks or flying with limited kits, but ...

[THeTA0123]

And once again i shall repeat it

Do not attempt to fix

what issent broken

[ajappat]

I want to believe that Natty is just trolling, but I fear he's not 

[Natty]

think outside the box once in a while, it's pleasant out here

[djinn]

Dont hate on Natty. Technically I suggested it. It just happened to get a dev's nod of approval.

How did we get here?
We were looking for a solution for having limited kits being used in tanks. I suggested NOT punishing or restricting them, but instead rewarding the use of the tanker kit so you see less limited kits in tanks.

And this is the reward section we are discussing - Tankers can do partial internal repairs, like medics can do in-vehicle healing. That way, people will see reason to use tanker kits to drive tanks rather than sniper kits for instance - or even SMGs and bazookas

[Natty]

Exactly my point, well explained Djinn.

Players are extremely simple beings. If you have a guy looking at a choice in a game; for ex: Do I want a kit with wrench + pistol only, or a kit with wrench + rifle + explosives, there's simply no way he'll pick the pistol-only kit. There's also no way he'd choose away a weapon that is best for the type of enemy he is most likely to encounter (tanks)

but! if that one thing he plans on commiting to (drive a tank, fly a plane) becomes improved by this choice, he'd pick it. He rather slightly improve that one thing a bit, and choose away the possibility to do other tasks, bcause that one thing might help him win more in the acticity he is choosing. (for example the tanker kit giving him slightly faster reload in tank, more ammo, more armor or internal repair, he'd be happy just having a silly pistol)

Unless you really know how players think and behave, dont throw statements around
Tanker/pilot kit which offers actual improved tanker/pilot experience; Yes.
Bad kit that players are supposed to pick to not pick kits that other players "can use better"; nope.avi since it has no actual game value.

[ajappat]

Unless you really know how players think and behave, dont throw statements around

Thing is, I'm player and I know how I behave and I have sen a lot of other players behaviour. It's true that they rather take rifle than pistol (so do I) and some players rather take bazooka than rifle.

Tanker kit should have something to benefit from. Like ability to spot and/or give artillery spots maybe? Actually I don't care if you give stick or carrot to get people using tanker kit (or engineer), but something should be done and it should not be some bullshit like internal repairs.

[Eat Uranium]

Would internal repairs even work?  I know in BF2 that when an engineer, medic or support got into a vehicle then their power (repair, heal and resupply respectively) would affect anything within x metres.  It did not, as I recall, affect the source vehicle.  So if you wanted self repairing tanks, then you'd need two tanks each driven by an engineer to stay in close proximity.

[hitm4k3r]

Natty, we as the guys who are playing the game more than you actualy, I think we are able to know how players behave. Thatswhy we don't throw around statements, we give suggestions. I see the point in rewarding a tanker kit or a medic kit or whatever, but not with the systems you explained. Do you know, how often Unique dies in an average match on Falais? Last time his score was like 47:1 in a tank
This map is kinda extrem, because you have many chokepoints, but I would like to see a solution, where not only the tanker gets his benefits and these extreme players don't get feed even more. And I think the restrictions aren't too heavy. Everybody knows, that you can't take the NCO kit when not playing as SL. I personaly would prefer this kit over the recon kit but I simply know, that I can't take it. Why can't you see, that players who are actualy able to download this mod and install all three parts are able to learn game mechanics in a quiet fast way. It's a game mechanic like different ammo types. I like it, that FH2 has this depth of gameplay and a learning curve. This makes it unique compared to other 08/15 shooters.
If you add things like auto heal, this game will be much more predictable and get boring after some time.
And another point I don't get, is why pick up kits don't have a value in the game? May be I didn't get your point at this, but I see a lot of people using them. I would bet my money, that in every match on Villers a guy gets into the barn at crossroads and picks up the shreck to destoy allied tanks - and there we go.

[djinn]

People! I suggested this. This once, stop bashing Natty!

I suggested internal tank repairs. If you can come up with some alternative to give reason for people using tanker kits rather than limited kits OR can find a more constructive means than restriction and sanctions for the use of said kits in tanks, please provide details.

But this conversation, especially that in single blocks of text, is really - really, not constructive.

Question - How do you limit the use of limited kits in tanks? Do you really have to? If so, provide system. If not, why not?

My suggestion was to add benefit to the tanker kit, so tankers use it over other kits, like the way they use pilot kits over other kits, and to have tanker kits right next to tanks...

What is your suggestion? keep it non-personal, PLEASE