Author Topic: New commander options.  (Read 1443 times)

Offline Hjaldrgud

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New commander options.
« on: 13-09-2011, 14:09:33 »
Hello Hopers.

Warning:




I know the commander has been suggested new things to many times, but I have more ideas than just one.
Basically I have played as commander two times. One on Op. Aberdeen and one on Supercharge. My primary job was to give the panzers supply so they could continue to shell the brit's tanks with Pzgr shells. My goodness, that was booooooooooring. Though I knew I helped my team to win, it just was too boring. The commander now is a one-hand work that is extremely boring. Only FH2 players with only one hand or people who use the other hand to eat or fap while they play FH2 would play as commander now.


So, I think everyone wants a more powerful commander, and not one that just uses up a player that could have been in the frontlines. These are my ideas.

 :)

-Smoke barrage. Okay, the Canadians really need to charge the city of Cagny, but have lost their armor due to the 88's in the towns outskirts. Suddenly, dozens of shells land in the field before them creates a smoke cloud only the veterans from N. Africa have seen as sand storms. Under the cover of the big smoke cloud, they overrun the city's 88's and the defenders quickly.

Basically a place between 6-10 smoke shells (or more, or less) each creating as much smoke as one shell of LeFH 18 or a 105mm Howitzer. The shells would land in a big area, but the shells should land so that there would be one big smoke cloud.

Problems: Is the SL capable to request another artillery or is only one hard-coded?


 :)

-Rocket battery barrage. The Americans are capping the church after fending off a German attack. Everything is relatively quiet and under controll. As the Flag reaches the top of the pole, the Tommy's suddenly hear a frightenining high sound and the city just ignites into an inferno of chaos and explosions. But suddenly as fast as it came, it stops. The surviving americans now takes a peak over their covers and see tens of Germans moving in to the town...

Basically 10-15 nebelwerfer shells that strikes a large area, (abit inaccurate) but is extremely destructive. It should have a Katyusha scream that you can hear across the whole map, just breaking the enemy morale completely. It should have a long reload time.

Problems: Problems: Is the SL capable to request another artillery or is only one hard-coded? Obviously the russians (Katyusha), and later the Germans can have this, but is the commander assets hard-coded, or can you have different for each map / team? I don't know if the Brits/americans used any rocket arty. They could get some heavy-ass-calibre artillery.[/i]

 :)

-Vehicle drop (Cannon drop) The Brit SL looks through his binocs and spots a StuG and a PzIV through the hedges on Lebisey. The middle AT flag would can't repel such a powerful force. He runs 40 meters behind the flag, so he is concealed. Then he requests it and gets it... A FREAKING 6pdr in a FREAKING parachute drops slowly down to his position. "Let the jerries come" the SL thinks.  8)

Basically the vehicle drop request has turned into 6pdr/PaK 40 drop. Now the SL could scream "Need Anti-Tank Support" and actually get it ;)

Problems: I think this could be implemented relatively easy. As germans, on late-war maps, and as hardware was scarce, maybe it could be dropped a pallet with two Panzerschreck kits on it, but that is maybe impossible to to.


 :)

-Strafe run. The Germans blah blah blah, many Brits on that flag blah blah.. German SL requests air support. Suddenly an ugly, static  German plane flies over that flag, and hundreds of 20 mm explosions rips the Brits to bits.

Basically just what I said it was. Hundreds of 20 mm explosions is Overpowered, but 50-70 is maybe okay.

Problems: The plane would look fake, random direction, its maybe hard to get the 20 mm explosions to land close and in a line so it looks like a plane strafing..


 :)

Spy plane I wouldn't mind seeing a spyplane flying circles over a flag giving away positions of the germans on the minimap. A bit easy to shoot down with AA, but if it flew very high, like just a silhouette high up in the sky. Maybe also make a limit from where you can see it on the minimap. So you can see the radar on the minimap if you are 200 m from it, but not if the plane spies over a place that is 400 meters from you.

Problems: I don't see any problems, and I wonder why it is removed from FH 2.


Of course this is too many options to be implemented, but I just throw my ideas out to see if anyone agrees and if it could be implemented. Thank you for your time. Excuse me for any grammar errors.

"Generous and brave men live the best" -Hávamál

Offline djinn

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #1 on: 13-09-2011, 15:09:26 »
I totally am with you on this.

I recommended having a commander similar to your role in World in Conflict.

The commander basically gets:
1. Creeping Barrage - Select direction from where to where, profit.
2. Concentration barrage - i.e. what we have now
3. General Barrage - Wider area, sustained for longer period
4. Close air support: Bombing run - Spot a location, have a plane fly over sync with explosion a la Ramelle - Deadly to tanks.
4.5 Close air support: Strafing run - Spot a location, have a plane fly over sync with cannon HE fire over a stretch a la Ramelle with a twist,
5. Concentration bombing - Medium bombers, like General Barrage, but deadlier to armor, less deadly to people in concrete bunkers.
6. Spotter plane - about 3 runs of a plane moving from one end to the other with intersection at a key area.
7. Priority artillery barrage - Friendly arty guns automatically fire at commander spot, even if the arty gunner is on it.
8. Naval barrage - Similar to Concentration barrage and general barrage, but from ships. The gun moves to face the direction as per BF2 engine and fires successive shells.
9. Smoke barrage
10. Illumination flares
11. Air burst artillery barrage - Late war, using proximity fuses for ground artillery, specifically for killing entrenched infantry
12. Core artillery - Biggass guns, tank flippers.
13. Rocket artillery.
14. Supplies
15. Glider support. Glider flies in and lands, creating a destructible spawn point. It needs to survive the landing though - Could also have limited spawns, after which time it wont allow more to spawn.
16. Support gun and scout vehicle air drop.

All assets are map-dependent and side dependent.

ALSO,

the commander should be able to give 'MOVE' orders for various units - Some are squad level, some are team level.

i.e
Need air support here will place a plane icon with line at the point targeted for pilots to heed
Need arty barrage here will place the 'active artillery' icon with line at the point targeted for artillery crew to heed. The spot will give them a new 0-0. which they can use to fire at the commander's target.
Need defensive positions here will NOT create a bunker, it will however let infantry of the squad selected know that they need to dig in and hold that position.
Need scout spot here will call for scout planes to hover over an area, so friendly scouts, scout planes/ vehicles move to an area and spot, (scout vehicles should be able to spot easier)


Combined, the commander will be able to seek out his own intel and make tactical decisions that dont just AID the army, but instruct it and direct its focus.


I also recommended having field radios i.e static backpack radios and pickup backpack radio + general rifle for general infantry, and handheld radio kits that can ONLY be used by commanders and Squad leaders. The former works within a range, to allow commanders to radio over rather than voice over, and the latter will make them autonomous, not requiring being close to the static kit or radioman to use... However, they will still need a mobile or static command truck, tank or seat to use their assets.

I would suggest the command tank, which like the halftruck will allow the commander to use his assets... It should however use PR's system to prevent players sitting in that position. I wont say, bleed em and kill em, but then we already have that if you go out of area, and since this is just for the commander, I say why not - Bleed em!

« Last Edit: 13-09-2011, 15:09:20 by djinn »

Offline ajappat

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #2 on: 13-09-2011, 15:09:35 »
Without having any opinions about suggestion themselves, I just want to thank Hjalrgud  (again) about that Aberdeen round. It was most epic Aberdeen round I have ever played, mostly thanks to you. Constant supply of HEAT and camping in middle town is winning combination.  8)

Would be nice if being commander was more attractive, so I could have more of those rounds  ;D.

Offline LHeureux

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #3 on: 13-09-2011, 18:09:15 »
I agree with all of it but not the rockets barrage, would lead to too much teamkills I think. Djinn is fabulating a bit, that's too much options and or harcoded things I guess  :-\
Hey, huge ass .gif signatures are totally unnecessary and obnoxious. Not these anymore, thankyouverymany kkbyethx love you, all the homo. -Flippy

Offline Potilas

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #4 on: 13-09-2011, 18:09:03 »
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=1019.msg18488#msg18488

"Give the commander the ability to have a barrage, which effectively fires not a shell, but a spotting projectile."

+

Offline djinn

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #5 on: 13-09-2011, 18:09:31 »
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=1019.msg18488#msg18488

"Give the commander the ability to have a barrage, which effectively fires not a shell, but a spotting projectile."

+

I dont get... how is that realistic? or representative of anything that was?

Offline Potilas

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #6 on: 13-09-2011, 19:09:31 »
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=1019.msg18488#msg18488

"Give the commander the ability to have a barrage, which effectively fires not a shell, but a spotting projectile."

+

I dont get... how is that realistic? or representative of anything that was?

It isnt  :o If it is the matter of realism plenty of things have to remove from the game on that logic.

I dont see any prob if commander can shoot "spot strike". IMO shells from nowhere is more unrealistic.
« Last Edit: 13-09-2011, 19:09:35 by Potilas »

Offline HappyFunBall

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #7 on: 13-09-2011, 19:09:41 »
This is just my opinion but, with the exception of smoke barrage vehicle/static drop (which are good ideas btw) most of the suggestions are just variations on the same theme: give the commander different ways to kill players on the map. Which is fine, but the commander already has that ability with barrage. Giving him different ways to do the same thing doesn't really make the job much more interesting.

However I think the real problem is that, (in my mean understanding of the development process,) enhancing the commander takes up a lot of developer time. Since, in the end, it only helps two players on the entire map, it is not a high priority at this time. It must take a backseat to things such as new weapons, and new theaters which benefits everyone.

Offline DaWorg!

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #8 on: 13-09-2011, 20:09:23 »
However I think the real problem is that, (in my mean understanding of the development process,) enhancing the commander takes up a lot of developer time. Since, in the end, it only helps two players on the entire map, it is not a high priority at this time. It must take a backseat to things such as new weapons, and new theaters which benefits everyone.

In the end, it helps to everyone who have good commander. Better commander system means more ppl taking that role.
"The roar of engines, the recoil of cannons. That is where the true joy of battle lies."

Offline djinn

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #9 on: 13-09-2011, 21:09:06 »
Happy,
I think you downplay in the implications of said changes quite a bit.

See the commander assets as an extension of the commander himself. In the same way soldiers have primary weapon, grenades, knife etc, the commander has his assets.

Each artillery strike is different for different purposes.

A concentration barrage on a spot will kill anyone not in cover and nutralize or greatly weaken defense at say, a flag point.

A general barrage will hit all enemy positions in an area, less killing them than blunting any momentum they may have had.

A creeping barrage hits a defensive line neutralizing that completely.

Airburst artillery is specifically to kill infantry, especially those actually IN cover. While it lacks the concussion, it does have the splash damage.

Aircraft bombs are more for enemy of mixed types rather than entrenched enemies. Close air support is faster response than artillery and can deal with a spotted tank for instance unless it is mobile, while medium bombers will deal with a heavy armored enemy column of give similar effect to general artillery.
 
Tactical artillery types give the commander various types of attack for various situations based on the spots and enemy detected positions. Furthermore, with the ability to call a remote scout plane, the commander needn't wait for people on the ground to give him intel.

Also, the 'move orders' will now target specific arms of the army, allowing the commander to give specific orders, not just move here, attack here, defend here...

Basically, it makes the commander, as a whole, more tactical than just supportive.

And since no asset runs on the same juice except for maybe various types of artillery using the same calibre of guns, the commander isn't just relating to ONE person, but can support various squads in varying capacity.

Offline HappyFunBall

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #10 on: 14-09-2011, 01:09:48 »
Happy,
I think you downplay in the implications of said changes quite a bit.

No, I don't think I did, in fact I think you are overstating the differences.

A concentration barrage on a spot will kill anyone not in cover and nutralize or greatly weaken defense at say, a flag point.
We pretty much have that in game already with the barrage.

A general barrage will hit all enemy positions in an area, less killing them than blunting any momentum they may have had.
How do you 'less kill'? Infantry dies pretty easy in this game. Just about anything will kill them. And how do you 'blunt momentum'? If a vehicle is merely damaged it will continue to attack. It may be weaker, but most vehicle are one-shot killed anyways so it would make much difference.

A creeping barrage hits a defensive line neutralizing that completely.
Again, we have that with the current barrage.

Airburst artillery is specifically to kill infantry, especially those actually IN cover. While it lacks the concussion, it does have the splash damage.
Everything kills infantry anyways. Especially barrage, regardless of cover.

Aircraft bombs are more for enemy of mixed types rather than entrenched enemies. Close air support is faster response than artillery and can deal with a spotted tank for instance unless it is mobile, while medium bombers will deal with a heavy armored enemy column of give similar effect to general artillery.
Ok, if you can actually have a player target an enemy tank, and have commander call in a drone fighter to come in and bomb that tank, that WOULD be cool. However I doubt it is possible. Otherwise, you are just talking about a barrage strong enough to kill tanks. (Which would also be strong enough to kill infantry and statics, and so would fulfill all the previous rolls you described.
 
Tactical artillery types give the commander various types of attack for various situations based on the spots and enemy detected positions. Furthermore, with the ability to call a remote scout plane, the commander needn't wait for people on the ground to give him intel.
Spotter planes are something different, they would be good.

Anyway you describe it, and any way you want to use it. A barrage is still the same thing, death from the commander.

That said, I can see two real variations: Highly destructive, but inaccurate barrages, which can only be roughly targeted, and pinpoint barrages which do less damage.


Offline djinn

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #11 on: 14-09-2011, 08:09:37 »
Oh yer, you ARE oversimplifying

The concentration barrage IS the current arty system.
The general barrage is less precise, more over a large area, so its less likely to kill people, unless from direct hit, and more likely to suppress an entire area. Infantry will stop and dig in, armor wont pass through until its gone - their momentum is lost.

Airburst has more splash damage, so if you are in shallow or light cover, it will more likely kill you than regular arty which has lowered splash damage.

A creeping barrage DOES NOT exist. Barrage we have is random in area. This one follows a direction the commander sets. and hits it one to the next. specfic for dealing with defensive lines eg. some of the gun son kidney ridge on El Alamein, the ridge defending the British main bases on Alam Halfa etc.

Offline Berkolok_Bf42Veteran

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #12 on: 14-09-2011, 09:09:12 »
good i idea but i have some questions
1.you say artilery artilery must be off map because i dont want to see i artilery firing without man
2.gun drop man this bad in the war never a at dropped in war zone
3 neberwerfer and katyusha must be off map
4.scout plane nooooo i dont wanna they spoted me in sniper kit and imagine hurtgen forest you see all men this suck hurtgen best map because you cant see they can ambush you easily and this funny
fh2 not bf2
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Offline djinn

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #13 on: 14-09-2011, 09:09:18 »
Like I said, map-dependent. I doubt Hurtgen will have a scout plane option if it was ever implemented.

It will more likely be the larger maps that currently lack air support.

Offline im_a_lazy_sod

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Re: New commander options.
« Reply #14 on: 14-09-2011, 09:09:36 »
Yeah map dependant options for the commander would rock

Played El Al the other day with about 20-30 guys

Kept getting spammed by Me109s and the Stuka when trying to repair the AA guns, so a smoke screen over the top of us would have been nice, as well as shells hitting AROUND an area, so an encirclement of shells.

As while the Krauts were busy blowing up our AA/AT guns at Deir El Dib, they had APCs moving in (and a commando unit in the VW that flanked right around the eastern perimeter of the map.

So yes, an addition of an encirlement shelling, to either trap an enemy position or to protect a position from short-term advances and attacks would be great.   Especially if the radius is something like 50m with a 20-30m protected area in the centre that doesn't get hit