Author Topic: FH2 Teamwork theory  (Read 13489 times)

Offline Archimonday

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #105 on: 30-07-2011, 19:07:06 »
Same idea, unfinished.



« Last Edit: 30-07-2011, 20:07:14 by Archimonday »

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #106 on: 30-07-2011, 20:07:33 »
These are great, Archi.

Offline hitm4k3r

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #107 on: 30-07-2011, 21:07:58 »
I have to say, these banners are very nice. They remind me of a discussion in another forum, that games are loosing their value by killing the teamplay by ranking systems. Don't get me wrong, I support the ranking system of FH2 , but it is one of the minor values IMO.

We have to spread the word about this. :D
 

Offline Natty

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #108 on: 30-07-2011, 21:07:04 »
I already proposed to add these kinds of posters ingame, I made one as well, and planned to put it on PHL and never got around to it

I also like them :) except the ones telling people to ignore our awards, that would never be added. We want people to like our awards, it would be nice if the poster told players that with teamwork, your awards will "matter more" or something ("feel that you deserve these" instead of "ignore these")  ;)

Offline Malsa

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #109 on: 30-07-2011, 22:07:48 »
I think these are cool too, but what would they look like for the germans, italians, or brits?  :)

Offline Ciupita

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #110 on: 04-08-2011, 17:08:06 »

Offline Hjaldrgud

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #111 on: 04-08-2011, 19:08:23 »
*hilarious Stalin picture*
LMAO! Great!

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Offline kettcar

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #112 on: 04-08-2011, 19:08:58 »
nice posters to place in the bases on the blackboards  ;D

Offline Zoologic

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #113 on: 05-08-2011, 07:08:44 »
I am all for that idea. Nice posters, Archi!

NTH:
Yeah, to finally think of it, it is hard to find any game mechanism that is present to "enforce" teamwork. I got to agree with Archi, it is the strict server-side rules.

Offline Raziel

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #114 on: 05-08-2011, 09:08:12 »
Really like the posters! Goodjob Archi!

Offline djinn

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #115 on: 05-08-2011, 09:08:34 »
I am all for that idea. Nice posters, Archi!

NTH:
Yeah, to finally think of it, it is hard to find any game mechanism that is present to "enforce" teamwork. I got to agree with Archi, it is the strict server-side rules.

Strict server side rules for me, are mostly arbitrary. Now I totally get the Kick-vote, and I get an admin kicking someone who is reported and notes for themselves the same thing, but basecamping for instance, swearing, etc... accidentally TKing alot of people...


I'd rather let these be part of the risk of play. And personally, I think they wont have as much of an impact in gameplay. If anything, it will open the door for more flexible strategy.

I mean, if a map doesn't have ABC lines, I dont think there is much that stops an enemy tank marching into friendly zone. That's why they have all those AT, AA guns and pickup kits no... Otherwise, that's a waste of vehicles.

And swearing... A strong order doesn't carry well unless it goes with a good 'god-dammit!' or 'f**in...' or another such explitif.


For me, I said it, there is NOTHING that you SHOULD do to ENFORCE teamplay. That concept is flawed. ENFORCING teamplay is almost as bad as saying enforcing enjoyment or enforcing free-will. TEAMPLAY can ONLY be made easier, provision made to make it the most sound choice...

That's why I stand by my pillars.. Try them and see:
1. Gun-to-gun suppressive effect and suppressed-effect for those under large volumes of fire... Just look at what happens when a shell hits close, concussion, shake... now scale that for each bullet, round or shell.

2. The Arnold Schwartznegger of Commo-rose with voice recorded for each option + hand motion for some + taunt.. Will work on this this weekend - at least the updated design.

3. 2-speeds on tanks

4. eye-level spotter cam.

5. commander extended assets, air, different types of arty ... basically, World in Conflict shit.

But I totally agree... those posters around the town, in their appropriote locations will definitely be a subliminal way to help things too - brand the game as sheer genius in its use of current propaganda to give better immersion than the current posters that players aren't influenced by, historic as they may be.

Will also work on my Tactical manual this weekend. I think when its done - and done right, patrons will realize that, they can become much more efficient teamplayers, speak the part and act the part...
« Last Edit: 05-08-2011, 09:08:20 by djinn »

Offline Natty

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #116 on: 05-08-2011, 11:08:49 »
dear Djinn :) your suppression-commrose-2speedTanks-spottercam-commander teamplay agenda is starting to become like a Mantra :)

how would suppression make people teamplay more?
how would an eye-level artycam make people teamplay more?
how is 2-speed tanks making people teamplay more? (plz dont say "slow-moving tanks with infantry marching beside it" I was in a round of Vossenack where I was a Panther, supporting infantry, we did an awesome job without me having to roll slowly, tapping the forward key works just as fine)

CommRose is obviously a teamwork/communication tool, nothing to add there, ours is not great and bf42 voice commands is not working with BF2 very well + isnt the most important things you want to communicate in FH2

Commander: well, as long as the arguments circulate around wish-list features for the commander, it isnt so useful. I agree he could - maybe - help teamplay, but I think it is more important to make him useful, I.E, give him tools that can make him help his team win the battle, not just tools that will make them hug eachother more.



Offline Archimonday

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #117 on: 05-08-2011, 12:08:13 »

how would suppression make people teamplay more?
how would an eye-level artycam make people teamplay more?


Suppression brings to light the fact that in warfare, the side which puts more rounds down range wins the firefight. No matter what war you look at, thousands of rounds of ammunition are expended just to kill a single man. Suppression, helps reenact that mortal fear of being killed, it does not make players scared do not take my words literally, but it does give them a visual hindrance which would make them get to cover to avoid it. You ask how this would make people work together more. Suppression would give people reasons to stick together, because it would give people reason to utilize the power of having groups instead of single soldiers to suppress targets. As long as people are educated about the usefulness of suppression, and the various tactics they can employ to use it properly, they will work in larger groups to use it more effectively.

I'm not too sure about the eye level artillery camera, but it is much closer to the old Battlefield 1942 artillery spotting, which in my opinion was far superior than these satellite spots. In a way the eye-level camera would give need for the spotter and gunner to communicate more readily, maybe even forcing the need for people to purchase headsets, as the spotter and gunner attempt to adjust the fall of the rounds onto the target.

On his last point, I'm not going to say that tanks should have multiple speeds, in-fact the new tank system works quite well. I however am still an advocate of multiple team members to drive the vehicle, primarily a Gunner/Commander, and a Driver. Not only does the inclusion of a second man in the tank increase that tanks situational awareness, because you have two sets of intelligent eyes scanning for enemies, but the need for the Driver and Commander to communicate instantly creates teamwork. It would also stop those who are less capable with vehicles from driving off alone, because they would therefore render that vehicle useless and the team would scorn them for it in an instant. I know that the retort to this paragraph will be along the lines of "we want to reenact the large scale tank battles of World War 2" and while I don't disagree with that idea, I think that those large scale tank battles should be reserved for custom designed maps, where tanking is near required. In all other cases, the number of tanks should be directly proportional to however many are needed to properly support the infantry, which are doing the hard work of taking flags and fighting the hard fight. Tanks should be a support weapon, not an all out offensive game changer.
« Last Edit: 05-08-2011, 12:08:34 by Archimonday »

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #118 on: 05-08-2011, 13:08:52 »

Suppression brings to light the fact that in warfare, the side which puts more rounds down range wins the firefight. No matter what war you look at, thousands of rounds of ammunition are expended just to kill a single man. Suppression, helps reenact that mortal fear of being killed, it does not make players scared do not take my words literally, but it does give them a visual hindrance which would make them get to cover to avoid it. You ask how this would make people work together more. Suppression would give people reasons to stick together, because it would give people reason to utilize the power of having groups instead of single soldiers to suppress targets. As long as people are educated about the usefulness of suppression, and the various tactics they can employ to use it properly, they will work in larger groups to use it more effectively.

This I can totally agree with.

I'm not too sure about the eye level artillery camera, but it is much closer to the old Battlefield 1942 artillery spotting, which in my opinion was far superior than these satellite spots. In a way the eye-level camera would give need for the spotter and gunner to communicate more readily, maybe even forcing the need for people to purchase headsets, as the spotter and gunner attempt to adjust the fall of the rounds onto the target.

This could be nicer but I'm afraid that it will just make arty less useful and lead to "elitists" sitting on the arty with no chance for an average Joe to get to try it. (Like that's not already happening)

On his last point, I'm not going to say that tanks should have multiple speeds, in-fact the new tank system works quite well.

Yes tanks should have multiple speeds to make people able to support infantry EASIER. They got that right even in Men of War...

I however am still an advocate of multiple team members to drive the vehicle, primarily a Gunner/Commander, and a Driver. Not only does the inclusion of a second man in the tank increase that tanks situational awareness, because you have two sets of intelligent eyes scanning for enemies, but the need for the Driver and Commander to communicate instantly creates teamwork. It would also stop those who are less capable with vehicles from driving off alone, because they would therefore render that vehicle useless and the team would scorn them for it in an instant. I know that the retort to this paragraph will be along the lines of "we want to reenact the large scale tank battles of World War 2" and while I don't disagree with that idea, I think that those large scale tank battles should be reserved for custom designed maps, where tanking is near required. In all other cases, the number of tanks should be directly proportional to however many are needed to properly support the infantry, which are doing the hard work of taking flags and fighting the hard fight. Tanks should be a support weapon, not an all out offensive game changer.

No matter how much interesting this sounds I can't agree with driver + gunner tanks... If we had an AI crew (like in RO 2) for those who just don't feel like talking and/or a decent comm-rose I might consider supporting it.  And I'm afraid this would have to go with the development of 128 player servers because some maps will feel really empty if this is introduced. (Cobra, for example already feels quite empty sometimes.) We must not forget that IRL tank crews are well trained and coordinated and I believe 1 person tanks simulate that really nice.
« Last Edit: 05-08-2011, 13:08:42 by LuckyOne »
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline RAnDOOm

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #119 on: 05-08-2011, 13:08:22 »

how would suppression make people teamplay more?
how would an eye-level artycam make people teamplay more?


Suppression brings to light the fact that in warfare, the side which puts more rounds down range wins the firefight. No matter what war you look at, thousands of rounds of ammunition are expended just to kill a single man. Suppression, helps reenact that mortal fear of being killed, it does not make players scared do not take my words literally, but it does give them a visual hindrance which would make them get to cover to avoid it. You ask how this would make people work together more. Suppression would give people reasons to stick together, because it would give people reason to utilize the power of having groups instead of single soldiers to suppress targets. As long as people are educated about the usefulness of suppression, and the various tactics they can employ to use it properly, they will work in larger groups to use it more effectively.


Very good explanation on the suppression. I tottaly agree with you.

Its one of the main things that i dislike about FH2. The lack of a higher suppression effect.