Author Topic: FH2 Teamwork theory  (Read 13487 times)

Offline LHeureux

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FH2 Teamwork theory
« on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:47 »
I replied this on the FH2 thread in the PR forums. People were talking about the lack of people using VOIP in FH2 and that's what make them leave or don't grab as much as other people on the mod. What do you think of this? :

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Well FH2 teamplay is more random, if you create a squad, people will most of the time follow you and obey your orders. If you use a mic, people will stick to your squad and be more respontive.

In FH2 all players tend to know what the other guy wants. Exemple : I have a bazooka and another dude too, I just say "Follow me!" he follows me and face the back of a Panther, I say "Fire!", we both destroy the Panther. The maps are smaller, all the gameplay is smaller, people are clustered together and IMO the teamwork is just perfect for the mod.

The fact of spotting a tank with the command makes it appears on the minimap for everyone, same as saying "Tank in H6kp4" and then lasing it, it's red on the minimap, so the Sherman next to you will know where to be heading or looking.

Another exemple, defending a flag on Bastogne : I found a good place where you need to go up a ladder to get to a destroyed house roof, giving a good firing position. I spotted a guy with a MG and said "Follow me" then I got up the ladder and said "Hold this position", he then said "Copy that" and started firing on the germans coming accross the fields.

I like the fact that I can make a easy teamplay with that random blue guy by using some commo rose action and the spotting ability, that's what is FH2 Teamwork. Seeing people leaving the mod because of "not enough VOIP" is sad. Just learn to use the other ways to get teamwork to work.
Please discuss.
« Last Edit: 18-07-2011, 10:07:58 by LHeureux »
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Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #1 on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:01 »
Teamwork exists if people arent selfish. Lack of VOIP? I think all FH2 servers have VOIP enabled so I dont know what that is supposed to mean.

As always, FH2 has the tools for teamwork but doesnt force people to it like PR most of the time does. Some players just never learn that playing in a squad and for the team is far more important than doing their own thing (they can still do it while doing teamwork too). I hardly ever have moments in which _I_ dont experience teamwork. I play in squads with people I know and I use VOIP, so I also receive teamwork. If I dont receive teamwork and Im not satisfied, I change squads or make my own. However, some people dont pursue teamwork and that's fine in my books, as long as they do something productive and not stupid things.

War doesnt need one man.

Offline LHeureux

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #2 on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:05 »
I meant the lack of persons using VOIP.

Like you I like teamplay and I change squads often to find one where the SL got a NCO kit and gives orders, etc. But it's not that of a deal to be in a squad that is not teamwork oriented, because like I said, in FH2 it's easy to get that' random blue guy to do teamwork things.

Some people even perform better alone.
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Offline Natty

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #3 on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:39 »
You don't need to be in a squad to play for the team*. I would say squad play can sometimes be anti-teamplay as well, a bunch of dudes out doing something that doesn't gain the team
I always join a squad, but I don't need a "leader" to tell me which flag to attack or what to do, I know this anyway. And it is not more teamplaying running around close to someone in your squad, than it is running close to someone else in your team.

Squad is nice for the extra spawnpoint, not much else.


*team = the 32 dudes together

Offline Ahonen

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #4 on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:09 »
You don't need to be in a squad to play for the team*. I would say squad play can sometimes be anti-teamplay as well, a bunch of dudes out doing something that doesn't gain the team
I always join a squad, but I don't need a "leader" to tell me which flag to attack or what to do, I know this anyway. And it is not more teamplaying running around close to someone in your squad, than it is running close to someone else in your team.


Doesn't VOIP make a squad much more viable teamwork wise?

You can tell each other exactly where that guy who killed you is, which direction that panzer is facing, when and where you'll need a rifle grenade shot, or where to set up the squad's MG.

When spotting enemies, there's a huge difference between just yelling "enemy unit spotted" and telling your squad an APC full of infantry and a tank are coming and from where.
When a US AT comes up, you can tell your tank where he is or where he'll come from, greatly improving the tank's survivability in urban combat.

You don't even need a scout to spot, unless there's a bunch of friendlies nearby who would also benefit of knowing where some enemies are.
« Last Edit: 18-07-2011, 10:07:26 by Ahonen »
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Offline LHeureux

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #5 on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:46 »
You don't need to be in a squad to play for the team*. I would say squad play can sometimes be anti-teamplay as well, a bunch of dudes out doing something that doesn't gain the team
I always join a squad, but I don't need a "leader" to tell me which flag to attack or what to do, I know this anyway. And it is not more teamplaying running around close to someone in your squad, than it is running close to someone else in your team.


Doesn't VOIP make a squad much more viable teamwork wise?

You can tell each other exactly where that guy who killed you is, which direction that panzer is facing, when and where you'll need a rifle grenade shot, or where to set up the squad's MG.
Yes of course but using VOIP in FH2 is..strange..? I mean, typing gets way better results, mainly because of the language barrier, sometimes people with a big german accent speaks and some of the squad members don't even understand. With a mic you're never sure if people understand you or if they hear you well enought with all the action going in FH2.
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Offline LHeureux

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #6 on: 18-07-2011, 10:07:50 »
To reply to your edit, most of the time people will see or hear the same thing than you, they'll see the halftrack and the tank. Mainly because of the small size of flag positions and map layouts.
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Offline General_Henry

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #7 on: 18-07-2011, 11:07:10 »
the principle is, if you will die without teamwork, you will use teamwork.

128 server is a great proof of this. Because you die a bit too too easily alone.

Offline Natty

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #8 on: 18-07-2011, 11:07:35 »
Doesn't VOIP make a squad much more viable teamwork wise?
It helps squad play, sure. But it doesn't necessarily means it's better for the team.
I often see silly squads out doing some "elite specOps mission" thinking they are this awesome bunch of dudes that just because they're hugging and VoIP:ing, is "team"playing. While at the same time the rest of the team is dying and trying to get the flag and stop the bleed, a.k.a playing the gamemode.
DICE did a good job making 5-6 guys play together with squad-chat, VoIP, squad-orders etc, and in vBF2 a good squad usually dominates the map, plus it's awesome for clanmatches. However Squads even further gives people an incentive to ignore the game mode in this game. You dont really care about the game mode primarily when you're in a Voip:ing, hugging squad, you care about your squad, and the game mode becomes secondary, therefor it's not actually gaining the team.


Offline jan_kurator

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #9 on: 18-07-2011, 12:07:18 »
Doesn't VOIP make a squad much more viable teamwork wise?
It helps squad play, sure. But it doesn't necessarily means it's better for the team.
I often see silly squads out doing some "elite specOps mission" thinking they are this awesome bunch of dudes that just because they're hugging and VoIP:ing, is "team"playing. While at the same time the rest of the team is dying and trying to get the flag and stop the bleed, a.k.a playing the gamemode.
DICE did a good job making 5-6 guys play together with squad-chat, VoIP, squad-orders etc, and in vBF2 a good squad usually dominates the map, plus it's awesome for clanmatches. However Squads even further gives people an incentive to ignore the game mode in this game. You dont really care about the game mode primarily when you're in a Voip:ing, hugging squad, you care about your squad, and the game mode becomes secondary, therefor it's not actually gaining the team.
And a good commander is needed then to coordinate squads on battlefield. I know what some ppl think about it but I still think that FH2 need some commander tweaks to make him more important and support ppl playin as commander.

Offline Natty

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #10 on: 18-07-2011, 12:07:22 »
Commander isn't needed at all unless he has the UAV. That guy doesn't know anything that the other 31 guys doesn't know, so he isn't "coordinating" anything. He just sits in his radio and pretends.

If the Commander could send real orders, aka draw "combat areas" for squads, or if squads achieved points or weapons for accomplishing the commanders orders, then perhaps it would work.
As of now, he's an extra artillery piece, nothing more.
We talked losely about the Commander, but pretty much agreed on that he will never be really useful. That is the reason so many maps lack commander radio.
Personally, if it was possible, I'd rip out the commander feature entirely and get that one guy to be on the battlefield instead.

Offline KAIZER SOSA

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #11 on: 18-07-2011, 13:07:51 »
I understand people's defensive take here but I'll honestly say with my short time with FH2 so far - I rarely ever hear any on VOIP. That to me is a deal breaker of sorts, because while yes - there can be randoms directing randoms through commo-rose it doesn't always yield fruitful results.

One example of many might I add is a recent match I had in Vossenack. The Allies where filtering out into Crossroads and no body was there to defend it at all. I told my squad members on VOIP that it needs to be defended or they're going to flank us. I also used the commo-rose to convey this message, I also wrote it down in Team chat as well - several times.

Nothing. Very few people heeded the call for defense even though I'm sure they can see Team chat, here me shouting "Follow Me", and in the case of my squad telling them multiple times via VOIP. It ended up with maybe me and another guy who weren't even in my squad mind you to defend it on our own against a Sherman and crap load of Aliied Infantry. It turned out half my squad had VOIP but they just didn't care, it seems that mentality is popular from most of the gamers I've played with on FH2 which is quite unfortunate. So VOIP or not its more of a question about team play, which I scarcely seen on FH2 from my short experience so far.

Point is - Is FH2 successful? Yes. It's great.

Can FH2 benefit from a more team orientated community? Yes.

Well screw you Kaizer does the question above there means there is no team work from us, the community? No. Your taking something on the Internet a little too personal and misunderstood the point.

The reason why some are turned away from FH2 is because your not always going to get what the game can ultimately deliver if you are used to a heavy VOIP presence in your games. I am one of those folks who favor VOIP, especially in games like this where like it or not coordination is needed to attain victory. This is why I immediately signed up for WAW, because I want to play this wonderful mod to it's fullest potential - I can't do that in pubs unfortunately because there isn't many players communicating at all in FH2 (on a number of servers).

I had one match the other day with a team using full VOIP (Ironically full of PR players) and it was the best game I've had so far in FH2. Because the coordination and communication was there. Team work was prevalent and because of that we did the best and won.

Is VOIP necessary for team play? No.

Does it make a team better? No.

But it makes players who feel that presence a little better knowing its there. If VOIP was used more often in FH2 it would attract more players, most of those newly attracted players would most likely be team orientated players.

Offline Natty

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #12 on: 18-07-2011, 13:07:40 »
I still argue that a good level design will encourage teamplay way better than talking in headset will do, and it feels more natural, fluid and "epic" with 32 guys fighting for the same goal, using the weapons and the map to reach their objectives.

VoIP is a nice extra tool to be able to chat with 5 guys, but it's nothing compared to what a good level can make players do.

Offline Topdogger

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #13 on: 18-07-2011, 13:07:16 »
I know everyone hates the can't we implement such a thing as its in PR.
BUTTTTTTT Would the compass bearing system not encourage more team play in your squad and voip usage i.e machine gunner point 100.

Online AfterDune

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Re: FH2 Teamwork theory
« Reply #14 on: 18-07-2011, 13:07:48 »
My reply in the FH2-thread on the PR forums about VOIP;

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If people like to play with others and use voip to improve communication, I don't think it's sad if they leave the mod when they don't find what they're looking for.

VOIP doesn't necessarily increase teamwork, it improves communication. Not using VOIP does not mean there can't be any teamwork of course. But, typing is slow and unnecessary when you only want to tell your squadmate something. FH2 is fast(er) paced, so there's often not a lot of time to type things out anyway, especially in the heat of battle. And using "fire" or "follow" certainly isn't something you always want to use. In many cases, you want to let your squadmate know something, you want him to know it fast and you don't want to give your position away by shouting.

Next to what I state above, I personally enjoy a game much more when you're able to actually talk with your squadmates, or laugh with them when something funny happens, or share the frustration after yet another failed attack, etc. "Hahaha" could never replace actual laughter, just like "ah, ffs, sh*t!" could never replace the actual tone of voice, sighs and mumblings, etc.

As long as most people are not using VOIP, people won't be encouraged to start using it. I've been playing FH2 for quite a long time now and I'm at a point where I'm can't be arsed to get some VOIPage going. If others are using it, I'll use it as well, but otherwise, why would I bother if most people don't want to use it anyway.

I believe FH2 will be even more enjoyable when way more people use VOIP.

I don't think good level design will be more helpful than VOIP. To me it's not really comparable. Sure it helps to understand what kits to use in what situations and what could be a good approach, but a level is static, players are not.
« Last Edit: 18-07-2011, 13:07:33 by AfterDune »