Author Topic: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)  (Read 11017 times)

Offline djinn

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SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« on: 10-07-2011, 10:07:20 »
LET THIS THREAD ACT AS A SUGGESTION THREAD FOR AI IN FORGOTTEN HOPE 2
(PLEASE PROVIDE ENOUGH INFORMATION BASED ON WHAT IS POSSIBLE IN THE ENGINE - THIS IS NOT A BUGS-REPORTING THREAD)

1. Make Grant I use its hull cannon (The 75mm) fire HE rather than using its foward facing MG and allow the Sherman in NA to fire HE also

The Allies completely lack an HE-firing tank in NA. While their tanks are superior in armor to the NA Germans, short of the PzIV and Marder's 75mm canon, they are incapable of dealing with 360o threats from German infantry, granted they start using their gabelt ladungs. The grant is particularly vulnerable since its hull mg is only foward facing. Addition of HE for both Sherman and Grant will balance the NA battlefield.


2. Move the howitzers in Goodwood foward
The German nebelwerfer is a real threat on this map, however the Allied arty is notably absent, since it is too far to fire on anything. I suggest moving it foward in SP/COOP to between the first hedgrow and boacage fixtures so it remains in cover but able to fire on the middle base and even to Cagney.


3. Allow big guns to respawn or be replaced when flag changes hands
While AT guns and mortars are destroyed permanently in SP/COOP for lack of AI ability to repair guns, some mgs reappear (And these are one-direction facing and therefore should NOT), while big guns like 88s, howitzers etc do not reappear. This should reappear or be replaced by a counterpart in all maps that have them, when their spawn area changes hands. A howitzer should be replaced by its opposing counterpart, a bofers AA should be replaced by a flakvierling or in NA, an 88.

4. Using Static guns
Bots dont use mobile ATs well. While these may remain in small part, most AT guns are well positioned and should hence be replaced in SP/COOP with static counterparts to create a defensive wall. Maps that include these are, Goodwood, Villers Bocage, Mersa matru, Totalize and Mareth Line.


5. Spawn static guns
Most if not all static guns i.e. MG, AT and AA, as well as mortars and howitzer should be made spawn points for bots. As the defensive line should be the primary defense, these should be the first line of defense, with the remaining bots moving in and out those lines in armor, aircraft, light vehicles and on foot.

6. Replace pickup mortar with static mortar points
Some pickup mortar should be replaced with mortar vehicles so that bots can use them. In some maps, there are as many as 2 pickup mortars per side, and in some pickup mortar is less important than mortar support. Many maps could do with constantly firing mortars :)

7. Make bots dash
Human players only walk when their run-bar is empty and when trying to sneak. Currently bots are vulnerable because they seldom run except when startled or when chasing a vehicle. I think bots should run by default, seeing that their run can also be exhausted. They should only walk when firing on enemy and when approaching seen enemy (even if out of view). This will make them appear sneaky when flanking enemy, while moving them to the battlefield faster, in the same way humans do.

8. The sniper vehicle
This would require work from a coder, but I suggest having a sniper vehicle, an invisible sniper rifle vehicle like an mg, except rather than placed on a wall, its in the air and with 360o rotational use - The awkwardness of this is why it should be invisible until its in use.

It is a spawn point so even if its in a church tower, bots can use it. Humans on the other hand cannot. The vehicle in use appears as a sniper aiming down the sites and with 360o rotation. Provide it with the minimum deviation possible and it becomes a real threat where pickup sniper kits otherwise are. Do not replace the sniper kit however, so that humans can use these. Don't forget, they wont see what they are missing.

Add this to COOP/SP and you will have a whole new threat on the battlefield - The sniper. It should be targeted in the same way mg positions are, mg, bullets, grenade launcher and HE from opposing forces, especially since it will likely be in concealed locations i.e. where sniper kits are tactically positioned.

Moderators, if you see this fit, pleace Sticky this. Thanks
« Last Edit: 10-07-2011, 11:07:29 by djinn »

Offline djinn

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #1 on: 24-07-2011, 18:07:20 »
Meus
The nebelwerfer may need to be moved forward to the edge of the Main base i.e on the hill infront of the tanks rather than behind, so that it can see into the town to fire. IMO, as long as it is behind the ABC lines, it can be moved forward - Applies to all maps, including Cobra, where arty plays NO role at all.


Offline djinn

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #2 on: 18-08-2011, 10:08:52 »
Bot Howitzers and mortar in FH2

I once came up with the idea to raise the perspective of artillery to allow it fire as far it sees from the sky. Drawde implemented this along with his fix for arty to make mortar fire in the first place , and we have what we have today.

But Drawde could never raise it above a certain height.. I think 15ft. Raising it above this tended to block the spawn points for some reason. Sadly, THIS is the solution, and I believe somehow raising it further (Specifically, to the height that allows bots to fire as far as the gun can elevate) is the solution, and I think work needs to be done to get this to work.

Alternatively, of if bots can be made to switch weapons on arty, bots should be able to fire based on the camera view. Bots can fire what the SEE. so if their primary or much-used secondary view point is the remote view, and people (human or bot) spot for them, my theory is they WILL fire at that location. Which i dont have to mention, will give SP/COOP the much desired live fire-support we currently lack.

I think some research needs to go into this to see if this is the case....



« Last Edit: 18-08-2011, 10:08:36 by djinn »

Offline CosmonautVince

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #3 on: 18-08-2011, 10:08:08 »
+1

Offline djinn

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #4 on: 18-08-2011, 10:08:24 »
Personally, I really think this thread needs to be stickied, as per my request. We need a portal to SUGGEST


We have The Fan Mod, ie, Modding Section for SP
We have The Download Section for SP
We have The Tracker, Bugs Section for SP
We have 'Singleplayer in Fh2', ie, Help Section for SP

We need the Suggestions section... i.e This thread

Offline CosmonautVince

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #5 on: 18-08-2011, 11:08:11 »
Moved from outside thread: Hi sp community. Vc here to bitch again. Tonight I'm asking if there is any way or even suggestions for the ai for the anti tank class. While they for the most part use their rifles effectively. I'm wondering if it might be more realistic for the bots to seek cover and in out attack tanks when available. At the current moment the ai is a bit clunky with the anti tank grenades. The whole process can be seen. The soldier (usually from quite some distance away) selects the grenade, then walks (not sprints from what iv seen) aall the way up to the tank. (Dangerously close really.) Pulls the pin, throws, then sprints away. My suggestion is this is fixed obviously, but I'm interested in hearing more opinions on whats would be a good alternative to the current sluggish process.
EDIT: djinn has recently given the idea that the bots dash to and dash from the tank as a simple solution. I currently agree with this, but can anyone else elaborate?
« Last Edit: 18-08-2011, 11:08:56 by VC »

Offline CosmonautVince

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #6 on: 18-08-2011, 11:08:30 »
On that note as well, do the anti tank ai know how to use their at rifles? Or do they just fire indiscriminately at the tanks ignoriing weak points?

Offline djinn

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #7 on: 18-08-2011, 12:08:26 »
Unfortunately, they fire indescriminately. Using AT rifles is Work in Progress. Originally they fired standing, since it was hard to get them to fire it prone. Now they are forced to only fire prone, but they still don't know that

You see them standing still sometimes because they are actually trying to fire standing, and cannot. Rarely, they might decided to fire prone. But tweaking needs to exist to make them fire prone ALL the time

What CAN be done is to make them fire at only light tanks. I recall the bots made a distinction between tank types, Not sure if it was only for heavy tanks i.e so that tanks switched to special AP, but if it also went for light tanks, then there might be a way to make them ONLY fire at those, so that it is effective.

Also, they need to fire at the very edge of their range so that they are still safe, while terrorizing the tanks at range. At closer range, their option should NOT be the rifle, but the bombs. That will be a possible workaround

But like I said, we are still trying to see how to get them to realize that the ONLY way to fire is prone.

Offline CosmonautVince

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #8 on: 20-08-2011, 12:08:12 »
Congrats on sticky ! :D

Offline :| Hi

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #9 on: 20-08-2011, 19:08:43 »
Congrats Djinn!

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline djinn

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #10 on: 21-08-2011, 16:08:40 »
I just requested is all. We have the Admins to thank for it :)

But its nice to have a clear area for Singleplayer/COOP Suggestions now.

I just wish we'd have an actively discussion and implementing community again.

Offline Void

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #11 on: 27-11-2011, 00:11:33 »
On sprinting bots:

AFAIK a bot's decision to sprint or not isn't under our control. Also, it might not work as well as you would expect.

When bots are walking around they are doing more than it seems - detecting enemies, targeting (this starts before the weapon is drawn, as range and target are considered before weapon choice) , as well as updating the team's common database about the location and nature of enemy units. A bot would not be as efficient at any of these things if it were constantly dashing about.

That is not to say that there are not ways to improve bot performance / survivability. I would like to see changes to the bot "attention spans" (they have them) adjusted with respect to the importance of the target, e.g., a tank should stay in a bot's "memory" longer than an enemy jeep.

Highly structured strategic strength values for all PCOs would also be nice to see in the AI templates.

On bots using that tank mg instead of the main gun: This should not be difficult to fix, I hope someone does.

Offline Darman

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #12 on: 02-12-2011, 16:12:04 »
So Is this the topic where I can post wishes for AI support? If yes, pease FH Devs add Support to your greatest maps: Bastogne, Hurtgen Forest and Vossenak!
if, not, I'm very sorry^^

Offline djinn

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #13 on: 02-12-2011, 23:12:27 »
This is the right place-ish. You can actually create threads for those. You are allowed. I created this thread specifically for AI improvements and additions. Maps are fine, but the current situation is, people tend to create threads for those

So depends on which you feel is more effective.

Check the threads though. There is an unofficial Vossnack and Hurtgen Map circulating around. I will only suggest you enter the files are replace the GPO with that from the Conquest version.

We are yet to get these officially done, but for now, that should suffice.

Offline Darman

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Re: SUGGESTIONS FOR THE AI DEV(S)
« Reply #14 on: 02-12-2011, 23:12:24 »
I just found it. Great work!