Author Topic: Today is a victory for freedom of speech.  (Read 3871 times)

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Today is a victory for freedom of speech.
« Reply #45 on: 25-06-2011, 00:06:39 »
Wilders is the personification of the resurgent movement towards ultra-conservatism in Europe.Personally, this just scares the crap out of me,
I don't know about that one, he shares 1/3th of his party program with the Socialist Party. Well maybe those are a bit conservative.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Dukat

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Re: Today is a victory for freedom of speech.
« Reply #46 on: 25-06-2011, 01:06:44 »
I don't know about that one, he shares 1/3th of his party program with the Socialist Party. Well maybe those are a bit conservative.

Did you ever realize that there is 'socialism' contained in 'national-socialism'?

I usually imagine my own sounds with it, like `tjunk, tupdieyupdiedee` aaa enemy spotted, ratatatataboom

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Today is a victory for freedom of speech.
« Reply #47 on: 25-06-2011, 11:06:15 »
Godwin.

Nationalism and conservatism are a tad different I think.
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Slayer

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Re: Today is a victory for freedom of speech.
« Reply #48 on: 26-06-2011, 16:06:41 »
Godwin.

Nationalism and conservatism are a tad different I think.
Lame to call out Godwin on this one, as it is historically accurate what Dukat says.

Of course nationalism and conservatism aren't the same, but most nationalists are conservatives, that's for sure. The other way around, I don't know, I wouldn't say that.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: Today is a victory for freedom of speech.
« Reply #49 on: 26-06-2011, 17:06:06 »
Every muslim in the Muslim Student Union on UCI was that.  They held this big rally on campus that happened whilst I was walking back from a class.  I stopped to listen, and what I heard was that gays and etc should be executed for their sins against Allah, that Islam is actually protecting women "from the outside world" by suppressing their rights and freedoms, and that their job was to move the american morality to that of the arab nations |:  And they were applauding and cheering.  Another time, when I was talking to a friend of mine who's a member, as I was standing there, one of them zeroed in on my pentagram, and just stood there, glaring at the pentagram around my neck, not saying a word, until I left.  Oh, and they were banned from the UCI campus for 2 years for breaking into a jewish studies class and chanting "Death to the Jews, Death to Israel"

That is outright extremist. Very easy.

There are 186 million Muslims here. Around 3% identified themselves to the extremists group according to the latest poll by a Muslim Youth organization. That is 5.56 million people, some European countries don't even have that much population.

The victory for freedom of speech also goes to the extremist Muslims I must say. During the undemocratic dictator years, they are suppressed by the regime. Now they are very blatant about their agenda, no longer afraid to offer preachings on many mosques every Friday prayers.

"Our enemy is America, and their Jew accessories. Death to America!"
-something that can be heard from Grand Hyatt Jakarta hotel.

About 30 years ago, Saudi Arabia was in turmoil, but with US foreign aid (to stabilize the world supply of crude oil), the kingdom family become strong. Under the direction of US interest, they ousted, suppressed, and oppressed "dangerous groups" like extremists, nationalists, etc. Some rivaling powerful family in the Arab world secretly make a peace deal with the ruling party to stay in existence and gather wealth in "American way", while donating to the extremists' cause that they believe in.

In Indonesia at least, many extremist groups are becoming associated with their Middle East financial backers. Some have close ties with US through the ruling family, leading to suspicion and wide-spread cheap conspiracy theory.

How do we feel it? Since the beginning, the spread of Islam here has been through blending with local cultures (such as Javanese) resulting in what they call "Abangan" (Reds), a mixture between traditional local beliefs and Islam teachings. But recently, many people tried to "purify" their faith that it really looks like the Middle Eastern one.

The opponent of religious extremists here are nationalists-socialists. They (nationalists) belief in the foundation of the Republic's constitution, Pancasila, which motto is "unity through diversity" (Bhinneka Tunggal Ika - in Sanskrit). Many view them as the zealous leftovers from previous regime (the so-called "new order"). The socialists belief in plurality and traditionalism, trying to preserve the very original culture of Indonesia, "not the Middle Easts" they say.