Author Topic: Having FH2 really playing like WW2  (Read 7463 times)

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #15 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:51 »
How can you play like WW2? What? How?

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Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #16 on: 20-02-2011, 20:02:21 »
*sigh*, clearly, what we need here is a less subtle hint...

Ok, consider what kind of strategies really existed in WW2...


Each side was battling over areas, right? Doesn't have to be a flag at all - NOTE

A good rifleman could take out a target at x yards... ah, but we are not all perfect riflemen...and considering that 64 people represent alot larger people - or better yet, a squad of 6 represents a proper squad size of people, then gun balancing may need to change in order to have combat situations that play out like they would have in WWII... Ah, but now how would this affect realistic tactics like suppression-flanking?

perhaps if a suppressed enemy was unable to fire back, there might be no need for deviation for instance...

Now with that in place, alot of doors open - You can have bayonet charges if that side is suppressing the enemy while doing it - AH! but that takes away from real bayonet charges - and if one of the enemy isn't suppressed, he now snipes the charging force with impunity since he isn't affected by the suppression and the bayonet team cannot fire back with knifes on... So we need to look back at gun handling and accuracy....

And while we consider bayonet charges, we now must consider communication - and hence things like the radio, commander orders and how that works into gameplay....

Have we ruled out othe use of a radioman kit? What are the ways that can be implemented?

etc, etc

I'm not suggesting a single gameplay mechanic - just given a random example of how that can be implemented. I could decide to say, here is suggestion A, B, c.. but then that leaves the whole suggestion open to individual idea dissection, and hence a loss to the whole thing from the fall of 1 or 2 aspects...

I want people to look at it the other way... Top down.
« Last Edit: 20-02-2011, 20:02:17 by djinn »

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #17 on: 20-02-2011, 20:02:37 »
No, you're looking at making a completely brand new mod from the ground up.  Any kind of these major gameplay changes would mean all maps would have to be redone to fit said gameplay changes.  All weapons, everything would need to be changed, for the slight idea that maybe this will be better, but the much greater and more possible idea that it will fail and all be a great waste of time.

So no.  Let the devs be.

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #18 on: 20-02-2011, 20:02:16 »
No, I'm not suggesting that.

FH2 is not a blank pallet. If it were, then yes, it would be possible to say, it would be a new mod. But what makes FH2 FH2 is in part the map layout and map size. So whatever theory the devs cook up to do with gameplay representing WWII would have to based on that non-changeable value.

Changes to how weapons work... well... that happens all the time already, doesn't it?


Think,
Currently, if you wanted to a cynic, you could say that gameplay only changes slightly no matter the theater. that adding the Soviets would be no different from Shermans in Southern France, only cosmetically different. And you would be in part right

Tanks handle simplistically, the gameplay isn't so tied in with the environment that it make a different whether the trees are figs or fern and if the tanks are Shermans or T34s

With a gameplay that makes people play ALOT more like WWII, this would change - Doesn't require an overhaul of the current game - Just the philosophy, and hence the rebalancing and game-mechanics that impact the game.


Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #19 on: 20-02-2011, 21:02:32 »
Dont try to fix

what issent broken
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Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #20 on: 20-02-2011, 21:02:03 »
Well, I have said everything I wanted to say...

I'm done here

Offline Josh094

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #21 on: 20-02-2011, 21:02:40 »
I like what you're suggesting Djinn.


Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #22 on: 20-02-2011, 21:02:42 »
thanks. You're the first.

Offline Natty

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #23 on: 21-02-2011, 08:02:07 »
My opinion (which is mine, and mine alone) is that if a server has 64 players on it, there are 64 different versions of what "WW2" is supposed to be. You will have one guy who has read 50 books and seen 50 documentaries about WW2, next to a guy who thinks SPR is cool and have only played Wolfenstein before.

Between them is the spectrum of preconceptions you need to consider when designing.

Therefor it's best for us to leave it as open as possible for personal interpretations, so anyone can pick up the mod, and enjoy "WW2" in his own way.

The second we start to apply various enforced behaviours based on our own interpretations of what WW2 should be played out like, we will find ourselves in a very tricky spot as devteam. On one side we must cater towards a minority of a minority (players who actually think in these terms, for ex; how soldiers behave) and on the other hand we must explain all the restrictions for people who are just here for some epic fun.

That is what makes development hard; the finetuned grey areas in design. Where experience happens.

Anyone can open up some wiki links and paste in values from ww2 sites in to his mod, no need to think in experience terms or accept the rules of the game. but will that be fun playing?

Anyone can also just add whatever numbers he wants that he thinks will play best, but that might make it completely unrealistic (for example a pistol killing a tank).

Therefor it's "best" (safest, most stabile, easiest to iterate upon) to stick with a design you (we) feel most comfortable with, and leave the immersion-interpretation up to the players. We can never ever make the most hardcore WW2 fans totally pleased, and we will never be able to make the mod a pure perfect fun shooter that will apply to everybody, we need to find the sweet-spot in the middle, and tbh, I think we are well on our way to do that for the next patch
 8)

Offline RN_Max

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #24 on: 21-02-2011, 08:02:11 »
Your notions are laudable Djinn and I'm sure they will be and already are considered points.

However, I must say that Natty has put the developers' view across rather well.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #25 on: 21-02-2011, 13:02:39 »
thanks. You're the first.

Hey! I said I'd love to have all of that too, and I think most of your suggestions are great! I just said it isn't probably to happen... Seeing as the devs try to make everyone happy, by making a fun game, open to a wide(r) audience
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline SiCaRiO

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #26 on: 21-02-2011, 13:02:40 »
the wider audience is relative, people say realism doesnt atrack people yet PR has a huge player base, same as red orchestra.

Offline TigerAce

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #27 on: 21-02-2011, 13:02:56 »
the wider audience is relative, people say realism doesnt atrack people yet PR has a huge player base, same as red orchestra.
Red orchestra is perfectly balanced between realism and gameplay, and isn't really "forcing" you to play a certain way. PR is popular mostly 'cause a bunch of people want to act out there favourite war movies or want to play a game where you work together and hardly ever shoot at anything. I understand that some people find this fun, but I really wish it didn't have all these rules that force you to play a certain way. Particular the fact that you can't use the top mounted mg's in tanks without a driver.
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Offline Torenico

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #28 on: 21-02-2011, 14:02:58 »
the wider audience is relative, people say realism doesnt atrack people yet PR has a huge player base, same as red orchestra.

People play PR because currently its the only mod with Teamwork on Public Servers. To be honest not so many people play PR because its Realistic.


Offline phillip

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #29 on: 21-02-2011, 15:02:01 »
Social gamimg >>>>>> Every other type of gaming, even it it is mad teamwork.

TF2 is social part, people talk, have fun.  Some don't, but many do.  Communication.  Not alot in the way of teamwork as viewed by many here.  PR has forced communication by requiring VOIP and squad based tactics.  Players talk to eachother to accomplish objectives.  For whatever reason, people don't talk in FH2.  It's a very quiet and alone game for the most part.  When you can get in a squad that communicates, the fun goes up 762%.  The tournaments demonstrate that even more with squads that play together and talk together for weeks on end.  Probably also why you see two tournaments will filled servers on Friday and Saturday, but many of those players don't play pubbie.  A quiet game of FH2 sucks compared to one with chatter.  Clans also can provide a social nature to pubbie gaming, but the FH2 clan scene is almost non-existent.

Teamwork and Realism have little to do with it, I think.