Author Topic: Having FH2 really playing like WW2  (Read 7466 times)

Offline MaJ.P.Bouras

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #45 on: 21-02-2011, 22:02:20 »
PR 1 week ago on Sunday at around 22:00 GMT+2 till 00:00 GMT+2


9+ Full servers of 64 people, all of which were public.Add 2-3 locked ones to that and you have around 600 players on one night.And i ask...Why not in FH2 too? What is the difference that makes PR so populated and not FH2 ? Sorry if this is thread hijack too much but i just want to speak with numbers towards Natty.

Offline Seth_Soldier

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #46 on: 21-02-2011, 22:02:59 »
and RO need to be compare to fh1 in terms of longevity ...

Personnaly i've enough of those "new generation of player". They've just pushed video gaming into uber scripting game.
I've enough of modding for a ww2 mod where i'm told that we shouldn't care about ww2 if people have fun.
WW2 is the fun, ww2 is the spirit. I certainly don't want to feel nazi but i would love to see blitzkrieg teamplay with assault wave, not those moron spawn squad.

I could do a long post but it wouldn't happened.

I would sum up that and say that there is people who you like to play and learn with the mg30(t) and the other who doesn't care because it's just an other lmg gun and 'add nothing to the game'

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #47 on: 21-02-2011, 22:02:55 »
Personnaly i've enough of those "new generation of player". They've just pushed video gaming into uber scripting game.
I've enough .... where i'm told that we shouldn't care about ww2 if people have fun.
WW2 is the fun, ww2 is the spirit. I certainly don't want to feel nazi but i would love to see blitzkrieg teamplay with assault wave, not those moron spawn squad.


This

I want people to believe its actually possible to make a game where you experience WWII and enjoy it for how it felt and was executed, rather than the... oh, no its impossible, we need to make it uber-realistic for that...

Running around with m1 garands isn't WWII in itself, having to hide in a bush and hope you don't get sniped by any of the other 32 players ISN'T WW2, tanks standing still on El Alamein and waiting to snipe an inch of turret of an enemy tank when it reveals itself ISN'T WWII

Frankly, I think we've settled, and claimed all else is impossible. If any engine, if any game, if any dev team can, this one can - Unless, perhaps, all those who made Battlefield 1942 into the most epic WWII experience possible in a sandbox combined-arms game, boldly covering the entire gamut of the war have all gone - Because that worked for THAT engine - And yes, FH2 has pushed the gameplay further up, but I think it can push further - ALOT further.

Unless, we are really expecting titles like Call of Duty, medal of honor and Battlefield to do that - Personally, I think they've left that period in history altogether, and until the bucks say so, they wont go back. Its FH2 - or no one else, tbh... just my honest opinion... We can say, well... no need to move out of our comfort zone, or we can dare to be bold



Offline hankypanky

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #48 on: 21-02-2011, 23:02:03 »
Do you honestly think PR = modern warfare?
I cannot begin to list all the unrealistic things in PR, but people act and play it as a simulator.
Is it fun? Yes! 
Is it well made? Yes!
Is it really realistic? NO!

The most laughable thing is the in PR is the Insurgency mode, it plays like a parody of real life, for a matter of fact so does the whole game. If you want realism your going to have to hit the ArmA games, or wait for PR2. 

I don't want to slam PR but lets face it, the BF2 engine cannot realistically portray WW2 or  large realistic battles for that matter. Massive assaults with tanks, arty, and planes? Supply lines? Moral? Fuel? Accurate plane and ballistics physics? All of these cannot be done in the BF2 engine. Hell look at PR with 128 players, it still plays like 64 people on crack.

So what is the point of my post? There is nothing the FH2 devs can really do to provide for you guys what is essentially a combat sim. 

My two cents, good day.
My ingame name is [PUG]mr.hanky1945

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #49 on: 21-02-2011, 23:02:51 »
SIGH! Who the fuck is asking for a combat SIM?!

Does saying, tweak the very core of the game to allow it to play like WW2 = WWII sim? NO!

In EVERY single post I clearly say, its NOT about 'realism'

Why are we still saying PR, PR, fuckin' PR?!

I'm talking about the very gameplay elements we suggest every single day on these forums - I just don't want to mention a particular one because it will be dissected in the same way the simple term 'make FH2 play like WWII' is being innacurately dissected until the message is lost. I want the devs to go to the core of the game design and see what game mechanics (suggested or completely novel) they can employ, combine and create to make it so...

I seriously don't think FH2 now plays in ANY fashion that make it a WWII game in its truest form - Has NOTHING TO do with realism - Has more to do with player experience. Running around with a mouser, flying a stuka, driving a Tiger  - These do NOT make the gameplay anything like WWII... Its how these elements combine together


I already hinted at certain things in my first post, maybe I need to be clearer....

Do we really need to cap flags to represent area-capture in WWII? I personally feel the cap area should be an entire block of the map, and the map marked to show these blocks; eack one adjacent to the next. Enter it, and it goes instantly gray - The area is no longer secure. It will ONLY go go blue or red if every enemy in that area is removed. It will require digging in, holding off enemy counter-attacks and preventing them from coming into that sector or else your reinforcement ceases.

That too would require changes to make that form of masses strategy feasible.

This a VERY loose idea... but that's a completely different way of using the 'flag cap' system. It still uses the BF2 engine, but its more supportive of RL situations - Not 'realism'.  An area isn't secure until no enemy is in it - Not one.


Again, just a loose idea - But I want you to see the way of thinking I'm hoping people can employ here - You need to see things 4-dimentionally here

Think totally outside the box
« Last Edit: 21-02-2011, 23:02:11 by djinn »

Offline Torenico

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #50 on: 22-02-2011, 00:02:56 »
I think, you should wait for the next patch Djinn, THEN you can complaint all you want about how bad FH2 battles are.


Offline TheRevoluzer

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #51 on: 22-02-2011, 01:02:57 »
I think, you should wait for the next patch Djinn, THEN you can complaint all you want about how bad FH2 battles are.

Stuff for updates, so the people see something new and maybe some suggestions get redundant

Offline Kubador

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #52 on: 22-02-2011, 05:02:32 »
I wanted to write down a whole esay on all that silly way of thinking you have my little rastaman but I'll keep it short:

Get real! Learn something that's useful for modding and I don't want to hear any crap that you can't because everyone who can read can learn - it just takes time and work.

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #53 on: 22-02-2011, 06:02:32 »
Yessah! Will do

Wont be use to anyone any time soon, but someday. For now, however, please indulge me :-)

Offline hankypanky

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #54 on: 22-02-2011, 07:02:31 »
I have a solution. I will buy a Panzer IV and attack the white house, that is the closet thing to real WW2 as I will be able to get.
My ingame name is [PUG]mr.hanky1945

Offline Torenico

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #55 on: 22-02-2011, 07:02:24 »
The closest thing to WW2 is Reenactment :)


Offline VonMudra

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #56 on: 22-02-2011, 07:02:42 »
The closest thing to WW2 is Reenactment :)

And most people, honestly, aren't up for spending 2000+ on the impression, plus hundreds of dollars in ammo, food, gas, and battle fees every year ;)

Offline Natty

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #57 on: 22-02-2011, 08:02:20 »
    What is the difference that makes PR so populated and not FH2 ?

    Obviously I don't know the real answer to this question, as there is no real answer. I do have a theory though;

    • I believe it is because DICE created a superb game called Battlefield 2 which has a strong player core
    • The game is almost 6 years old, so for the hardcore veterans of that game, the unmodded game feels obsolete now. Old, dated.
      • PR is the natural extension of their favorite game, a way to enjoy their favorite game without playing a 6 year old game (pretty much what FH1 was to bf1942)
      • PR was first released as a little "tweak" add-on to the game, and has since grown with each patch. It was an easy transition for hardcore BF2 players to move from vanilla to mod (by hardcore I mean players playing BF2 more than 7hours per week)
      • FH2 was released as a full blown total conversion from day one, the people that loved BF2 churned because FH2 forced them to totally change their BF2 gamestyle over one day
      • Players that liked Bf42 but didnt like BF2 also churned, FH2 wasn't at all what bf1942 was like, with the movement, aim, hud etc.. (I personally had huge problem getting in to the game from years of bf42/BFV)

      • PR adresses a current conflict, which people read and watch the news about, and is currently the only mod that offers teamplay on a large scale (64p thanks to BF2) in this conflict (Iraq, Afghanistan or what it is)
      • WW2 is not a compelling enough "theme" to install a 4gb mod for most people. It's done in too many video games and unless the game play is totally unique or it offers some deep persistance system or hardcore teamplay, people will not be able to see pass the expiring date on the actual game they launch.

        • Knowledge of modern weapon technology has increased a lot in players, thanks to the last 4-5years of games and many movies, series and documentaries about various armed forces which have been showed on TV due to all the silly wars that are going on (which are portrayed in PR) pretty much in the same way FH2 players like various WW2 weapons.
        • Weapons are the most important feature in a shooter game
          • The "digital live roleplaying" / pretend reenactment that PR players do, can not be found with 64players anywhere else. My theory is that the reason why server rules are so hard, is that without this forced behaviour, the mod would simply not be enjoyable, as the illusion would fall and players would realize they are more or less just standing in a 4x4km BF2 map. A fragile "feature" if you will.
          • PR does offer technical add-ons to BF2 which are interesting and cool, this is undenyable and all games with a steep learning curve tend to carve out a very dedicated elite that has learned it all. This is a strong player core for PR.
          • Where PR attached players around various technical add-ons & rules, FH2 attached players around a theme and graphics. Both needs to be consider weak in terms of player retention.
          • Both mods are being played by a small niche, which mostly know eachother. Playing with friends needs to be consider a very strong component in terms of retention. :)

            • This might be the last year of mods/games of the current generation. Next year people might feel icky pressing a 6year old .exe file for a game. Not just because of BF3, but because of the whole generation shift in PC games. Im not saying servers will be empty, but the peak might be over, and players might invest in new hardware. After their 2nd or 3rd game for the new generation games, these old ones might start to feel really old.


              just a theory... 8)
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    « Last Edit: 22-02-2011, 08:02:57 by Natty »

    Offline Thorondor123

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    Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
    « Reply #58 on: 22-02-2011, 11:02:24 »

    just a theory... 8)
    A hypothesis, actually.
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    Offline LuckyOne

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    Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
    « Reply #59 on: 22-02-2011, 15:02:07 »

    WW2 is not a compelling enough "theme" to install a 4gb mod for most people. It's done in too many video games and unless the game play is totally unique or it offers some deep persistance system or hardcore teamplay, people will not be able to see pass the expiring date on the actual game they launch.


    Well maybe you (as the devs, I mean) should start working on those "totally unique gameplay or deep persistance system or hardcore teamplay" then... :P

    I'm not saying you're doing a bad job, in fact I admire all the hard work that has been put in this mod, but it seems to me it still lacks some "new features"... Sure it has awesome graphics, excellent historic accuracy but the gameplay still plays out a little too much like BF2...(as in you spawn, run or drive around for a bit, cap some flags and eventually win by spawnkilling the enemy at their main/1st flag). It lack something new and different... Of course push mode has offered some concentrated action and ceased the back capping but I still feel it's a bit lacking.

    Maybe it's not the all devs' fault, maybe it's all in the community (maybe that's why tournaments are so popular) but I find it hard to believe that devs don't have some nice ideas to "spice up" the gameplay.

    And about your dying out mod theory, we got to take a look at the big picture, sure gamers are moving to newer games, but some of them also come back disappointed... Also new gamers are made every day... Hell I'm a newcomer, I bought my new rig mainly to play FH, not for some new generation games as they all started to feel exactly the same for me... Specially with the focus on the modern part of history.
    « Last Edit: 22-02-2011, 15:02:43 by LuckyOne »
    This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...