Author Topic: Having FH2 really playing like WW2  (Read 7465 times)

Offline djinn

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Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:28 »
Now this may end up being a controversial one, and I can imagine a host of named people coming out of the woodworks arguing historical facts, engine limitation and Hollywood tactics to show me why my suggestion is baseless, but me being me, I will press on....

Suggestion is, to forget gameplay NOW, and look at what gameplay COULD be - and then, going out and making it so...

FH2, in my opinion, more so than many other shooters has the ability to give players the sense and feel of WW2 - Not the stupid realism that wont fit in the game's scope or will kill fun, but the WW2 feel that can be brought about by allowing players to use the weapons and vehicles of war in the fashion they were inteded, with game mechanics that allow the player be immersed into a believable WW2 experience, without the need for actual scales

How?
A number of factors:
1/ There are things that can be done to make formations move in the WW2 fasion, in cover, but in larger groups, sometimes requires bold tactics like bayonet charges, moving behind armor, suppress-flank tactics and the ww2 equivalent of blow-torch and corkscrew i.e. call in the arty or air-support and move in with infantry....

2/ There is a way to make teamplay, not just about moving together to take an objective, but enjoying the gameplay on account of team tactics and outdoing the enemy's equivalent

3/ There is a way of making each army need to employ varying stategies on account of varying equipment, vehicles and history...

4/ There is a way of having feedback from the environment that makes the player feel what would have been felt in each environment and under combat conditions - Adrenaline, fear, the need to stay alive, the need to work together, the need to retreat....

Now I know I haven't said anything concrete (a far-cry from my nature), but that's the point. I want the community, and the devs to look at these things and see the game holistically to see how they can be achieved. Like I said earlier, it involves making players use believable weapons and vehicles and with game mechanics and restrictions that allow them to use the tactics employed in WWII....

I have already, and others have already, mentioned so many ideas in these forums that can aid this - And some already exist ingame... Its for you all to think of how these can be combined to create a winning game architecture

I dunno about you, but Forgotten Hope 2 can be ALOT more - Rather than compete with PR and the like for mod recognition, I think we can go alot further...

I few final notes on some architectures that don't quite work as they exist now, but could....

1/ Commander position and assets
2/ Ammo boxes and airdrops
3/ The role of aircrafts in the whole scheme of things
4/ Position capture
5/ Static mgs and AT guns
6/ knifes and bayonets
7/ The commo-rose
8/ Smoke
9/ Calling in artillery and the aiming system
10/ Entrenchments
11/ Rifles versus SMGs versus MGs.
12/ Snipers
13/ Deployable weapons


And again, forget the way FH2 exists now, if you can be flexible enough to and think WWII and how these and other game mechanics can - or should - come in to play....

I believe FH2 can, and should, play VERY, VERY differently.


« Last Edit: 20-02-2011, 17:02:13 by djinn »

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #1 on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:37 »
There is a way for almost everything you mentioned there, but the real question is "Do the devs really want FH2 to be as real as possible?"

...Cause it seems to me that they kinda don't... They focus heavily on historic accuracy of the maps, equipment, and the looks of everything but I somehow don't believe they want this game to become ultra-realistic with the need of distinctive WWII knowledge to play effectively....

It seems to me they just want it to stay how it is, a somewhat casual WWII experience with shiny graphics and polished maps.


Now don't get me wrong I would like to have everything you said, but it's probably not gonna happen.
This sentence is intentionally left unfinished...

Offline [ret]azreal

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #2 on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:19 »
I don't really see the suggestion in this post? What are we supposed to do for points 1-13?

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #3 on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:43 »
Not ultra-realism - At all.

moving in large formations, suppress and flank etc, aren't hardcore at all...

It doesn't need to be 'all in the manual' here, but it does have the possibility to be more than 'just another casual WWII title'. And believe it or not, the engine supports it.

@Azreal
Be inspired. There have already been so many suggestions toward gameplay. I for one have made a good number, and many more under-developed aspects already exist ingame. The suggestion here, is to look at the very core philosophy of FH2 and see which concepts can be brought together to make it so. Deviation? maybe, remove SL spawn? maybe, allow larger squad size? etc etc.. I don't neccesarily propose anything concrete. I'm simply saying, can we make FH2 a serious WWII title i.e Not hardcore realsm per se, but 'WWI playing like WWII' trather than 'people playing with WWII'....


Offline Alakazou

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #4 on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:10 »
In anthropology we call that postmodernism. So it look like it's mean something, but it's not the case :). So you can read a text for hours and at the end, it's like you haven't read something.

Offline G.Drew

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #5 on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:08 »
Quote
Suggestion is, to forget gameplay NOW, and look at what gameplay COULD be - and then, going out and making it so...

Ok, see you in about 3-4 years.

Honestly, it feels like the work the devs have and are putting into this mod is sometimes is just so fucking unappreciated.

But anyway, on topic: Honestly, there are plenty of things that are food for though, but its different saying 'we should do this, there is a way' and 'we should this, by..'. Frankly the devs do enough thinking on their own without people telling them to think about things with such a general description that just makes this post yet another wall of text.

Final though: Mybe people will think about this, mybe things will happen, but right now there is more than enough things to think about atm.
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Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #6 on: 20-02-2011, 17:02:59 »
sigh... I don't want to result in the classic - DO this, do that... then people come out and say, nein, yes, I agree... hmmm that's interesting - Until the idea falls one by one, and we have too little of it left to allow the real suggestion be fulfilled.

So I'm simply throwing this out to the devs in particular to think about it for themselves, something internal is stronger than something externally suggested.

Whatever we express here becomes simple theorizing, and then the initial post is forgotten for the last post... I dont want that


I'm trying to address the issue from the other end. Not the individual game mechanics, but the bigger picture that combine already discussed-to-death game mechanics.. from BFG tank motion to everything else
« Last Edit: 20-02-2011, 17:02:50 by djinn »

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #7 on: 20-02-2011, 18:02:28 »
I just got an idea!
Djinn, you love writing long texts and how things should work. And it would really be helpful for your idea if you would write an easy to understand manual for gamers to use WW2 tactics. You can't force them, it's still a game, but perhaps some will take a heart in your writing! :)
There have been calls for a new manual, but since the game mechanics have been changing with every release no one got to updating the old one. Wouldn't that be something you can sink your teeth into?
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Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #8 on: 20-02-2011, 18:02:40 »
I have thought of that. Yes, it is. I would suggest an artist work with me to create diagrams. I can sketch what I want, but i cant use photoshop.

That said some gameplay element do need to be improved to give merit to it.

I will suggest tanghble implementation in my next post - but I fear it would signal the end of this thread, acting as surfaces to peck off at

Offline THeTA0123

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #9 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:26 »
Once again djinn, you come up with to long posts wich in the end dont make sense
 ;D
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Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #10 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:26 »
So Im not the only one who didnt catch the idea (if there was one) in this... suggestion, is it?

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #11 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:56 »
Yeah, I don't understand what the suggestion is supposed to be either....

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #12 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:35 »
I'm suggestiing all devs go back to the drawing board regarding FH2 gameplay, considering all suggestions and already existing gameplay aspects, to see if FH2 can't play more like WW2 really did.

In the current design, we cant give enough incentive for teamplay, moving group, suppress-flank etc, however, if they stopped looking at individual concepts, which at this point would be bandages over a headshot wound, but instead looked at a different philosophy of gameplay, they'd know which concepts to tie in to make it happen

For my part, I'm going to start on the game manual, specifically regarding gameplay tactics etc. I will post snipets here and that may spurr the devs to streamline the game design to affor those tactics more.

The main suggestion is: Reconsider overall gameplay. Bug fixing was an entire release - This can be also. Don't need to delay the bulge, but it would require no longer tweaking, and more so overhauling

My manual would be on time to keep everyone understanding this gameplay

« Last Edit: 20-02-2011, 19:02:48 by djinn »

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #13 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:56 »
The devs have repeatedly said and hinted that gameplay is getting some major overhaul in the next release...how about let the devs handle that and see what happens then -.=.-

Offline djinn

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Re: Having FH2 really playing like WW2
« Reply #14 on: 20-02-2011, 19:02:46 »
We can suggest can't we?

Besides, while I don't know that FH2 will be actually played like WW2, its worth suggesting it should be ;)