Author Topic: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire  (Read 4204 times)

Offline Pr0z4c

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #15 on: 09-02-2011, 13:02:05 »
I didnt read all of it here above, but,, im sorry i think its a bad idea!
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Offline kummitus

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #16 on: 09-02-2011, 15:02:27 »
If you look at other games like CoH or BiA

Problem is that the computer says that the guy is pinned down, you would need to have something that forces you to be unable to fire and prone to have same kind of effect!
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Offline djinn

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #17 on: 09-02-2011, 17:02:36 »
Yer, those were AI play-acting the effect. It only worked because of that fact. Players don't get pinned in those games - not really.

Ours is focused on actually suppressing the player. We need a way to give him as close to RL feel of being suppressed. Where that won't work, we need to create a game-mechanic that gives the player the limitations that cause RL soldiers to keep low under fire and not return fire.

Its actually more rewarding in our case than in BIA or CoH where it is automatic.

That's why I suggested what I did: bullet-level suppressive effect, suppressive effect (twitch and increasing blur) to disorient and throw aim off. You can turn and run, but you are likely to be a sitting duck for a bullet in the back, or you can fire back blindly, not even sure if you're firing the right way, and if you are on target.

So once you get the first few blurs and shakes, you either work at fire superiority or fall back, or else you'd soon to be suppressed.


Online VonMudra

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #18 on: 09-02-2011, 17:02:07 »
^Yeah but your not going to be "blind" do to Mg suppression. Especially veterans who are fimiliar to the scenerios...okay the first couple round might initially take you off guard and cause the above effects, but after that you should be able to gather your witts and take cover, etc..

Exactly.  And blinking is already modeled ingame, haven't you guys had your official FH2 brand "eyelid" adaptors installed over your eyes?  I did long ago.

The best way to improve suppression is simply to return to what it was in 2.0, back when it worked.

I don't see why the blurr would be more realistic. You don't catch myopia everytime you are under mg fire, do you ?

Anyway, twiching is the best imo. Suppression would happen way more often than in PR, so ugly screen spam like the blurr should stay out or as it is now...

Never said more realistic.  I said best, as in the best way to force suppression on someone ingame.

Offline djinn

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #19 on: 09-02-2011, 18:02:47 »
This is the reason for the effects:

When a person is fired at, the bullet, flying at high speed, hits a surface close to the person with enough force to cause the person to feel the slight viberation of the hit, or at least hear the sound and get a sense of the sheer mass of the bullet that hit, and the speed of it. The effect can be compared to a flashbang. An overwhelming of the senses with fear-fight and startle, that causes the person to be somewhat disoriented.

This usually depends on the nerves of the person, but this cannot be depicted ingame. The remaining, which we can depict is that disorientation in the form of a split-second blur (Which is kind of how long you would be startled by each near-miss). The more conscious part of the brain may at first try to flee or fight, then realize more bullets are flying and hitting close. The former effect making the suppressee sluggish in response will then prompt him to keep down. He may try to return fire again, but the effect takes over a second time.

Until this is reduced, the person will be unable to do better than TRY to return fire, and more likely, lay low altogether until it ceases.

See why the semi-screen shake AKA twitch (causing accuracy loss) and blur (representing and causing disorientation) are the best effects to actually get a player suppressed?

For a single bullet,, the effect should be more of less like a blink i.e real brief, but with successive bullets or larger caliber, it becomes more until it gets as bad as it can get now.

Offline Oberst

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #20 on: 28-02-2011, 14:02:29 »
During the Game Night 13 and some forum search some Ideas about cover/supression fire came into  my mind. I didnt wont to start a new thread, although this post might be a summary of other post combined with some new thoughts.

The absence of the hit indicator during the game night inspired me to some thoughts about the cover fire. Why does cover fire at the moment not work?

1. The penalty (death) is not a real penalty, as you respawn 10-20 seconds later.
2. It is more easy to pop up and "laser kill" the enemy, rather than staying down and waiting for support.
3. Once you hit or kill the enemy, you know it instantly. So now more shooting is necessary.

The first point can't be changed (and should never be). Only a minor group of players would get, why the spawn team increased, the other wouldnt understand and leave. Even if you get it, a long respawn time would be the death to gameplay, so no way.

But regarding to the second and third reason several minor changes can be done, which would not affect gameplay much. The changes are (Some points have bee brought up by other people in other posts before, so its not all my ideas):

1. Removing hit indicator (Server settings, so possible today): Without hit indicator, you dont know if you hit the enemy and if you have done any damage. So it becomes more difficult in general to hit and to adjust your shots. This change affects the suppressor AND the suppressed guys!  (This is also for tank warfare, so shooting beyond fog range and pixel shooting would be more difficult, it leads to better tank warfare)

Of course the hit indicator serves a purpose and there is a reason, why there is a hit indicator. The hit indicator allows you to know if you hit the target, or if you have to adjust your sights. As this is a game, you need a feedback, if you hit the enemy or if you need to adjust your sights. In real life your eyes have a higher resolution, then a computer monitor has, so at the distance it is still possible to see the effect you did to a target. And I am sure this is only one aspect of the hit indicator.

2. Removing or setting a delay of maybe 10 to 20 seconds in the kill messages. In the current gameplay, you know instantly, that you killed your opponent. So there is no more need for supression or other things. But if you have no idea, if he is dead and if you still want to move closer, you need suppression fire.

I am against the total removing of kill messages, as this is still a shooter, where you want to know, who you killed and if you get killed, you want to know who killed you and with which weapon. But if possible, you still can set a delay, before the kill messages come up. ofcourse this is still disturbing somehow, as it is difficult to find out, which kill someone did at what time, so it is still a bad idea.

3. Increasing the effective area of the suppresion effect. In the current situation the effect comes up, when the bullets travel or hit in an area about maybe 2 m around you (I dont know the current number). This area need to be increased a little bit to 3 or 4 m. So suppresion is more effective.

4. Atleast maybe some changes in the effect, like increasing deviation or whatever.

Just some thoughts. I hope, you get my point.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #21 on: 28-02-2011, 15:02:23 »
^ I agree with everything above except increasing deviation
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Offline Beaufort

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #22 on: 28-02-2011, 16:02:12 »
It has been discussed here :

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=11610.0

... and the devs said they were making some changes with the HUD for the next patch.

Offline Oberst

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #23 on: 28-02-2011, 20:02:50 »
I knew about the Hit indicator thread, that's where some of my ideas are from. But the original Input, which made me think about the whole topic and reviewing some of the threads, was the deactivated hit indicator at the game night. I was suppressed by two BAR gunners. And I wasn't sure, if I hit them and they didnt stop shooting, as they didnt know I was hit or not.

I didnt knew or cant remember the conlusion of the thread, that something will be changed, so thanks for sharing the information.
And as I searched for suitable threads I took the one, which wasn't the oldest. And I am supprised, that the last post from the hit indicator thread is so young.

Offline flyboy_fx

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #24 on: 07-03-2011, 20:03:09 »
Yea, suppression has to be fixed. Nobody is afraid of my Mg 42 now.  :'(
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Offline Paavopesusieni

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #25 on: 07-03-2011, 21:03:27 »
Oh MG42 *lines up the sights of No.4* die! *shoots* haha got ya. Oh an AT guy *bang*, so easy. 

Offline HadrianBT

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #26 on: 09-03-2011, 03:03:19 »
2 djinn:
Only the fear there, not that much from vibration.
Consider a rifle bullet (6g, 1000 m/s for simplicity) and somebody stomping his foot (12 kg(? no idea lol), 10 m/s since a free-fall of my body from 0.5m would be ~3.1 m/s). The kinetic energy is, therefore:
1) 3 kJoules for a bullet
2) 0.6 kJoules for stomping a leg
So the vibration from a bullet is equal to 5 people stomping their feet simultaneously in front of you, which doesn't create too much vibration.
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Offline djinn

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #27 on: 09-03-2011, 12:03:49 »
We arent going to get the 'fear' so we can only emulate the effect of the fear i.e. Greater reason for innacuracy, twitch and disorientation i.e. The flashbang effect

Offline Kev4000

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #28 on: 09-03-2011, 13:03:18 »
We arent going to get the 'fear' so we can only emulate the effect of the fear i.e. Greater reason for innacuracy, twitch and disorientation i.e. The flashbang effect

Unless we attach some wires from the computer into your brain.
Any volunteers for this new project?

Offline sn00x

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Re: 2 Ways Improvement of Suppression Fire
« Reply #29 on: 09-03-2011, 23:03:35 »
meee me me mememe! ;D