Author Topic: List of SP AI issues in 2.3 (with some fixes)  (Read 936 times)

Offline Drawde

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List of SP AI issues in 2.3 (with some fixes)
« on: 31-01-2011, 19:01:33 »
Apologies for my long absence from the forum - after 2.3 was released I thought my AI modding work wasn't needed any more, and to be honest I'd got fairly "burned out" with FH2 after repeatedly playtesting maps to find AI issues, and decided to take a break!

However, over the last couple of weeks I've been playing some of the new maps as well as looking through the 2.3 data files and comparing them with the old 2.26 AI minimod. It looks like a lot of the AI problems in 2.3 will be a simple fix, though others I'm not sure about.
Here's a list of the issues I've found and what needs to be done to fix them (thanks to Djinn for the initial list of issues).

Hopefully some of the info here will help Remick04 and the other SP developers fix these issues for the next FH2 version; I'll probably also release a new 2.3 version of my AI minimod (much reduced in size from the 2.26 version as a lot less needs fixing!), as well as the Stuka dive siren mod as a seperate release.

Tanks not firing the right shell types: A number of tanks/AFVs don't fire HE or special AP shells as the aiTemplate for these weapons is either missing or commented out via "rem". The ones I know of are:

GB Achilles, Cromwell, M3 Grant, M3 Stuart, M4A1, Sherman V and VC
US M4A1, M4A1/76, M4A1_eu, M5 Stuart, M10, M24 Chaffee
DE Panther A, Panther G, PzIIIN France, PzIVF2, PzIVH

A number of tanks also have the misspelling "Infantery" in their file. Don't know if this actually affects the AI or not; this bug(?) dates back to the original BF1942.

The Pz.IVD and F1 also share the AI template for the PzIVH, despite having a different main gun and shell types.

M16 MGMC not firing at aircraft: This vehicle uses the AI for the M3 halftrack, the gunner AI for this has very limited rotation/elevation limits although it's capable of firing at planes. The vehicle also has the same temperature and attack/defence value as the M3 so bots aren't particularly inclined to use it. Probably the best fix is a new AI template for the M16 with 360' rotation for the gunner position and increased temperature for both crew positions.

The M51 (static quad .50 AA) uses the AI for the Flakvierling, which works fine.

Crusader AA not firing at aircraft:
This vehicle does have its own AI files in 2.3 (crusadermk3AAAI) but it doesn't use them - the aiTemplate assigned in crusadermk3_aa.tweak is that of the standard Crusader tank.

Flak88 looping fire sound: For the 3rd-person firing sound script (e.g S_flak18_barrel_Fire3P) change "ObjectTemplate.loopCount" to "0". A simple fix but needs to be done for all shell types of all 6 Flak88 variants!

Bot use of deployable MGs:
haven't looked into this yet, when I play I don't use deployables that often and don't usually leave them to bots when I do! But I'll try and have a look at this later.

Map-specific problems (other than pathfinding/AI commander issues): The British mortars in Villers Bocage are the non-AI type. Probably more map issues out there but this is the only significant one I've found so far.

Some other minor issues:

The KWK 5cm (found on Port en Bessin, not sure if it's on any other maps) has the "Fixed" rather than "FixedGun" AI setting, so bots usually bail from it before they get the chance to shoot at anything.

The Bren AA weapon (bren_std.tweak) uses the aiTemplate for the standard Bren, although it has its own aiTemplate (BrenAAGun_AI) which is only permitted to fire at aircraft (otherwise bots waste time trying to track ground targets they can't fire at)

Some tank coaxial MGs have a minimum range of 5.0 which prevents them firing at close range

Bots don't use the Geballte Ladung AT charge: the weapon has no aiTemplate assigned in the .tweak file. (should be geballteladung_AI)

Bots rarely seem to use hand grenades against infantry.

Universal Carrier AI has very low temperature settings for crew positions (so bots are less likely to use it) also passenger positions have a fairly high defensive StrategicStrength (so less likely to bail when needed elsewhere). Other transport vehicles may have similar problems (haven't checked them all yet).

The Universal Carrier with Vickers MG uses the same AI for the Vickers as for the front gun (so it can't rotate 360').

Wespe doesn't have its own AI - haven't seen this in action yet (what map(s) is it in?) so I don't know whether the standard LeFH18 AI will be adequate or not to get bots to use it correctly.

The Wasp Universal Carrier also lacks its own vehicle AI, though it does have weapon AI. (the standard UC AI still works with the Wasp, but the gunner position probably needs a higher temperature  ;D and AntiAircraft=0 setting)

Also some AI issues which are unchanged from 2.26 - there are plenty more but these are a couple that come to mind:

- Bots still seem to be unable to use anti-tank rifles.

- Bots don't respond to radio commands.

I'll post any more issues here when I find them!
« Last Edit: 31-01-2011, 20:01:30 by Drawde »

Offline djinn

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Re: List of SP AI issues in 2.3 (with some fixes)
« Reply #1 on: 31-01-2011, 22:01:29 »
Personally, in flat planes like NA, I felt it was kinda cool that fewer tanks fired HE. made for balance. However, the Allies do need at least one or 2 HE-firing tanks in NA... say,the Sherman and Grant for instace

that said, with the Brits having a dangerous AT weapon compared to the gabellt ladung, it kinda helps to have Gerry firing HE

Grenade use is fine, imo. They can be pretty nasty with it when they want to be, but they don't overuse it and that's good.

For maps, the other issue I know of is that Cobra's howitzers don't have raised perspective, however, I suggest we work on this instead:

making each map with most static guns and pieces spawn-able for bots.... I want a wall of steel for defenses, with infantry and armor making their way in between the defensive line.

I did an experiment by making bots 95. And for maps with spawn points at static guns, it was epic.... for the rest, it was a mindless meatgrinder. ALOT of guys running around, and as wonderful as bot AI is, the flaws become more obvious when there are that many

That project i.e GPO files should cater for the raised arty issue...

Offline Devilman

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Re: List of SP AI issues in 2.3 (with some fixes)
« Reply #2 on: 01-02-2011, 08:02:58 »
@ Drawde
Are you aware of the several missing/incorrect and faulty AI errors that show up in debug mode ?
Such as below

Offline djinn

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Re: List of SP AI issues in 2.3 (with some fixes)
« Reply #3 on: 01-02-2011, 12:02:16 »
Oh, also... I advice strongly reducing the amount of mobile guns ingame to Static ones instead. While some mobile guns, using the current slow motion we have work wonders, many are really in static positions and needn't be moved. mobility simply makes bots less responsive on then. Something to note for GPOs..

example of such guns include,
/the PAK40 facing the German main, at the nebelwerfer base on Totalize.
/practically all AT guns on Villers bocage.
/AT guns on Mersa Matru, save for the one at the coastal base and the lone one defending the pass to said base.
/The PAK 40 defending the town on Lebisey

Anyone think otherwise, please let me know.

Offline Remick04

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Re: List of SP AI issues in 2.3 (with some fixes)
« Reply #4 on: 02-02-2011, 19:02:47 »
So, glad to see you back Drawde! A lot of those issues are on my list but I havn't got around to fixing them, and some I hadn't even noticed. I too have gotten a little burnt out on FH2, when I get home from a long day at work I'd rather play a game or do something more creative with my time than sift through AI files for bugs. But I do enjoy seeing the fixes I've made effect how thing play ingame, so I take some of my days off to takle one problem at a time.

I do want to warn you, I havn't submitted any of the AI fixes I've made to the team since 2.3's release because the Devs are going through a Gameplay overhaul. Not a complete overhaul, and the changes they're making may not actually be released, but they are testing a lot of different ways to make the gameplay smoother and more enjoyable. So, I've been holding off on submitting updated files for things that are constantly changing anyways. But that does give room for any outside help to get into my batch of fixes when I do submitt them.   ;)

Again I'm happy to see you back!!