Author Topic: 2.3 SP gameplay review  (Read 1602 times)

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
2.3 SP gameplay review
« on: 28-10-2010, 15:10:51 »
So I noted that this hasn't been done yet, and I feel it would serve as a good yardstick we can use to proceed. Sure, we know the bugs and have ideas of what can improve AI, but I want to know from anyone and everyone who has tried this mode to give us his review

I'll start

Over all rating: 8/10

For the first time in FH2 since 2.0, bots seem custom fit for each map their in thanks to stellar work by Remick04 in map design and AI, with help during the hiatus by the general Singleplayer community.

There are clearly still some bugs, noted especially in maps like Goodwood (ze Germans don't like their panzers) and bots still not using stationary defenses as much as some would like. That said, the new additions such as mortars and artillery, tanks that use everything including smoke, mg gunners that suppress from well off, increased mg and rifle range (Thanks Remick) and seemingly improved AI for tanks alternating between firing on the move and stopping to engage, SP seems to have finally become a practical alternative to Online play. Being able to simply install 2.3 and have singleplayer almost ready-to-go directly after is a new level of excellence reached and the amount of work put into it is greatly appreciated.

There is probably no comparable fun is conquest to charging a firing 88 gun on Purple heart lane, charging through dropping mortar bombs on Mareth Line, engaging infantry at 500 and 1000 yards while under weathering fire from the church mg on St. Lo, or intense squad-based combat in the hedgerows of Lebisey.

I have experienced moments of play where it seemed the bots were actually moving with strategy. Squads seem to move more together than before and engaging one infantry may bring at least 5 or even 11 others to your position - And hiding in a church tower is no longer escape from your pursuers.

I noted a Panzer III on Mersa Matru engaging a Crusader, standing perfectly still so that the shells of the Brit tank bounced off it, a Grant came by and the Panzer was immediately animated and begun manouvering to get a side shot after its first shot ricocheted off the front. It took the Grant out and whipped around to the Crusader that had till this point still only been facing more or less, a thick frontal armor, and that tank was blown up too

We still have a way to go before we can completely rest out oars on AI and leave the rest to commander logic and navmesh, but we are close. And for the first time in a long time, I can say, I am actually enjoying the singleplayer experience.




Specific ratings

Tanks - 7/10
Their motion seems more logical with fewer cases of permanent idling, they engage infantry at range. Their shortcoming is still with dealing with fixed guns where they consider AP rounds their best bet

Infantry - 8/10
They don't spam grenades or riflegrenades, they engage from range, stop in a crouch, use mgs to cover fire, flee when they are with ranged weapons and  first encouter an enemy close up, and practice greater degrees of avoidance resulting in less TKs - But they still spam smoke and I have noted infantry throwing frag grenades at a Crusader

Artillery - 9/10
The shining star of 2.3. From completely non-existent in 2.26, it now plays a dominant role on the battlefield, laying waste to squads of infantry and armor alike. Range is excellent and depending upon the map, it oscilates from a constant threat to a denfesive weapon for high priority bases. In maps like the formerly bland Mersa Matru and El Alamein, it truly shines. Only gripes here are that mobile mortar is useless to bots as it doesn't use the raised perspective that has been so succesful in static versions and the wespe isn't used to fire at anything - But these are small issues that require going back to the drawing board on human versus bot perspective for arty.


Air - 8/10
Planes have been flying well for a bit, but their logic with selecting targets, diving from great heights to drop bombs and switch between HE and mg, or mg and bombs for the Stuka is both useful and immersive. I can't count the number of times, I was pinned down by an enemy tank and wished for a saving grace from a friendly bomber, which more often than not showed up on queue, putting a bomb right on target with little or no loss of friendly lives. Little gripe is still in fast interceptors being able to collide with their targets, and the exclusion of the Stuka dive-horn design... But ce la vie, you can't have too much of a good thing

Static guns - 6/10
Range increase and equal preference for all axis mgs is good and allied static mgs, may also have the same love. But deployable mgs are still disliked and when used, are quickly abondoned. I even had one instance on Lebisey where I deployed an mg facing German troops, my guy got on, and simply pointed it at everyone without firing once!
The same goes for AT guns. While the static ones will be happily manned, the movable ones can be abondoned. A problem with defenders not defending but idling does also lend itself to keeping static guns under used. On a map like Purple heart lane, placement really shows this lack. But on Sidi Rezegh, spawn point mgs on the Sidi Rezegh HQ really make this map come together :-)

Commander AI - 7/10
Remick did an excellent job making this work for 2.3, and this is the lynch-pin in the success story, especially for older maps that have been given a new lease on life - There are still some rough edges, most noted in defenders defending, but idling till one base is capped, but with shiny possibilities over the horizon, this aspect may yet see its best days
« Last Edit: 28-10-2010, 15:10:47 by djinn »

Offline Mud Buddha

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 844
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #1 on: 28-10-2010, 15:10:06 »

We still have a way to go before we can completely rest out oars on AI and leave the rest to commander logic and navmesh, but we are close. And for the first time in a long time, I can say, I am actually enjoying the singleplayer experience.

Good read, and nice to see you can finally enjoy FH after all those years.  ;)

But jokes aside, your relentless posting about SP did make me get into it a little more. I've tried it before but only as a stopgap (or mindless target practice) when there were no servers available but now I enjoy the occasional SP match as a genuine game.
FH2 is the game, DarklyDreamingDexter is the name.

Offline sheikyerbouti

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.402
  • Yay, Rep feature is dead
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #2 on: 18-11-2010, 09:11:12 »
 Wrt artillery,

 is it possible to actually hit a target that is spotted? for the life of me, I never can seem to bracket a target since 2.3 came out.

 Otherwise, am loving COOP experiences as of late. it's brought in a diverse crowd, that for the most part has been so team play oriented that it puts some MP sessions to shame.
My Quebec includes Canada

Offline SavageCDN

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #3 on: 20-11-2010, 19:11:21 »
I have noticed as well.. not sure if it's all maps and arty pieces but it seems that humans also see from the bot's raised perspective...which is neat when you don't have any spotters but makes it damn hard to hit a spot accurately as the zeros don't line up with the target.

Edit;  or is this just in COOP?

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #4 on: 20-11-2010, 20:11:02 »
Yer it is just in COOP. We had to do that compromise in order to get bots to lobe shells over obscurign trees and such, and that, in addition to the fact that they now fire at all, is why arty works all of a sudden.


We are trying to see if we can't say, have 2-views. One that humans get i.e the normal, and one that bots get i.e the 15m high view, but its still at theory stage. Unfortunately, with fewer key people on the SP forum than at the time of development, its harder to get such ideas into practice than it used to be. But who knows. things might change for the better in time.

Offline Remick04

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #5 on: 22-11-2010, 18:11:01 »
There is a possibility of having weapons behave differently in the hands of bots from humans in the same way bots could fire the heavyMG and anit-tank rifles while standing before but human players had to go prone. I'm trying to figure out how this works because I want to fix the bots not reloading the M1garand, but it requires editing the .tweak file in a way that makes the weapon behave differently for human players. If it does work like I'm hoping then it might be possible to have the regular view for human and an altered view for bots. But I wouldn't get my hopes up. The current AI arty system works well for people playing alone. I can see it being a problem if you're playing with someone else who is spotting for you. The dials may be off a bit as the arty system overall when through some changes in 2.3 to accommodate the new mobile arty (wespe). So, I'll see if that at least can't be fixed.

Offline evhgear

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #6 on: 01-12-2010, 04:12:08 »
Well, is it possible to have 64player battle in single player ? because it is a little bit boring 8 vs 8 and it could be more interresting if it was 32 vs 32

Offline djinn

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 5.723
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #7 on: 01-12-2010, 06:12:46 »
Yes. Goto Mods>FH2>ai>aidefaults.con (open it in notepad) and change the number of bots from 32 to 63.

When you start up fh2, change army ratio from 50 to 64, and total number of cots to 47. Total number of players remains 1 if you are playing alone.

With those values set, you should have 64 people on the battlefield at 50:50 ratio. Toggle the ratio from 64 to other ratios to bias one team or the other as prefered.

Offline evhgear

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: 2.3 SP gameplay review
« Reply #8 on: 01-12-2010, 18:12:22 »
Hey Thanks Sir ! More interessting on bigger maps