Author Topic: ESAI: FH2 Edition  (Read 26869 times)

Offline djinn

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #150 on: 20-11-2010, 01:11:56 »
Sorry about that. Yep, this is what I have to deal with. You get people asking for SP support, sometimes asking for the LIST of fricking SP supported maps, so there definitely are lurkers, but unless cF, zM or myself post, the entire SP section sleeps

I decided not to go on posting replies cuz I can't hold this up by myself. The lurkers need to step out too, rather than just DLing and playing and expecting everything to get good.

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #151 on: 20-11-2010, 04:11:03 »
Long time no see Djinn. Yeah, as much as I appreciate the feedback you,cF,and zM have been giving me, I truly need to get an idea of how many folks are actually using ESAI:FH2.

I have no problem with improving the maps with custom SAI, and with eventually developing custom SAI for all FH2 SP supported maps, but I'm not going to do it for just 3 people. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but each map takes much effort.

I logged 29 hours of total work just on Operation Goodwood, if you count all the testing. That plugin alone is just as complex as the ESAI core.

This project is not "fan" work. I like FH2, but I am not a "fan". This project is a complex Strategic AI package that I feel deserves some kind of feedback, even if said feedback is negative.


« Last Edit: 20-11-2010, 07:11:35 by Void »

Offline Zoologic

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #152 on: 20-11-2010, 05:11:55 »
IMHO, the best ESAI experience is in Villers-Bocage, Lebisey, and then Goodwood.

At Goodwood, we know there is still tendency of some bots to drive their tanks out of bounds (Combat Area) when they cannot breakthrough the underpass or railroad bridge. I tried to partially fix this (post in other thread).

Offline rd.king

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #153 on: 20-11-2010, 06:11:06 »

All your hard work on Goodwood is wasted if the german tanks never cross the railway.
the work on mareth line is a wonderful inprovement it plays great I personally don't like the map
but you have made it quite playable.
The changes to luttich make for a very good battle.
On the whole your work shows promise for FHsp and I am thankful.
but from what I have noticed the 2.3 patch has done more damage than good for FHsp.
In 2.3 the axis bots seem much less intent on action than past builds so the EASI is handicapped
by a weak game.
I have found when playing the maps in testing with and without EASI that although the EASI game has far more activity they don't have as much productivity ( no decisive wins just attrition )

Are you working for just three people I don't think so, but giving feedback is often recieved as bitching so many will sit by and wait rather than risk insulting the people doing the hard work that benefits us all.





Offline mutley

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #154 on: 20-11-2010, 08:11:29 »
I think you'll find many people are enjoying ESAI, albeit silently - am sure each time you have released a new version, an increasing number of downloads are registered.  I view this as the only real way we'll get these maps playing to their fullest extent; maps like El Al are brilliant but suffer from issues with the ebb and flow of the battle, Luttich  has seen real improvements, etc.

I registered just now to voice my support, although have been one of the silent majority on this board for over two years.  I say continue, many are gaining real enjoyment with the project.

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #155 on: 20-11-2010, 10:11:11 »
Say it ain't so... :(

I thought I'd go and bang the ESAI drum in the 'General' section...maybe that'll wake a few more up to this essential fix/mod for SP... ;)

 - http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=12584.0


Siege of Tobruk is awesome... :)

Frontline flags changed hands numerous times (all 3), but zee Germans never broke through. Probably due to the flag problem at the Axis main interrupting the flow of tanks...or maybe it was just the awesome Aussie defence... ;D

The LeFH absolutely hammers the flag on the left...but then the arty in general is awesome on this level.

Zee Germans bled for almost the entire round and put up a great fight, but it ended 16-0 in our favour.


And I completely forgot about Luttich, I better go check it out.

Offline djinn

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #156 on: 20-11-2010, 10:11:26 »
Like Void said. If you have DLed this, see yourself as a Beta Tester. Its about 'constructive criticism'. We need this. Drawde isn't active any longer, Remick is too busy on the next Fh2 version to help around here, so Void is what we got. And its perfect timing too. We had AI worked on prior to 2.3, Navmeshing done for every map, and now we do the 3rd layer - Strategy.

All we ask is for you, whoever you are who plays Singleplayer, to give back to the community.

AI in Fh2 has gotten to where it is on the back of people who gave up their precious time to help the rest of the community. NONE of them were official devs - We did NOT have an official dev at the time:
/Bizness was never a fully-instated dev, but FH2 did not start its life without AI thanks to him
/Winterhilf was not a dev when he gave us most of his work
/Remick_04 was not a dev when he started working on navmeshing so many wonderful maps
/Drawde was never a dev when started radically improving AI in FH2
/Legion was not a dev when he begun work on AI and tank motion
/CannonFodder is not a dev, and yet it is from his work and thread that any Singleplayer DL sees the light of day
/Neither Zoomotorpool nor myself is a dev
/Void is not even a long time fan, or fan for that matter and he's here working his ass off for all of us.

So please, before we loose all this work being done to improve game-play, come out and simply give us feedback on the mod so far

thanks

ps. Do you guys even recall what AI was in Fh2 before 2.3? Tanks wont even fire at infantry, and German tanks reversed more than moved forward. Trust me, it has improved... Drastically
« Last Edit: 20-11-2010, 10:11:30 by djinn »

Offline SavageCDN

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #157 on: 20-11-2010, 18:11:32 »
First let me thank Void, djinn, zoo, cf...all those who are working to improve SP.

Second with regards to the bots in 2.3 - yes they are much improved and much more deadly especially with fixed weapons and mortars/arty.

As far as feedback goes... are there areas you are specifically looking for players to comment on?  I will dedicate some time to SP but should I be focusing on something specific or just fire up some maps and see how she goes?

Thanks.

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #158 on: 20-11-2010, 19:11:25 »
Quote
As far as feedback goes... are there areas you are specifically looking for players to comment on?  I will dedicate some time to SP but should I be focusing on something specific or just fire up some maps and see how she goes?

it is already apparent that there are enough people interested in this to continue development.

At the moment, I mainly just want to know what, if any, differences are noted when playing SP/COOP with ESAI enabled on the maps I did custom SAI for. Given one of the posts above, I am also looking to find out more about tank behavior in Op. Goodwood.

Basically, if the game play of a map changes at all, for better or worse, I would be interested to know. I've never thought that my existing code could not be improved. For next ESAI:FH2 I was planning on adding just a couple more maps, and revamping some things about the ones I have already done.

I need such feedback because I don't spend much time "on the ground" when I code this stuff. When testing I usually watch the bots on the overhead map, to see what the armies are doing as a whole.

Without such feedback, I am at a dead end with respect to what to try and improve.

Offline djinn

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #159 on: 20-11-2010, 19:11:39 »
Bots are known to hesitate when crossing narrow streets or overgrowth or ditches.

I've done two simple things:

Changing values in ai.ai

aiPathfinding.setActiveMap Vehicle
aiPathfinding.map.maxSlope (28)
aiPathfinding.map.addVehicleForClusterCost Tank
aiPathfinding.map.addVehicleForClusterCost ArmedCar

Changing values in aipathfinding.ai

aiPathfinding.createMap Vehicle
aiPathfinding.map.maxSlope (20)
aiPathfinding.map.headClearance (3.5)
aiPathfinding.map.radius 2.5
aiPathfinding.map.allowedHeightDiff (5)

And at least, in my PC they successfully do this in Goodwood:



I dunno if this is the result i should have expected when increasing the encased () values.

The hanomag in first pic, finally crosses the underpass smoothly with little hesitation. The Goodwood Panther drive through the railway now, they don't reverse and forward too many times. Lastly, the Panzer 4 was shown to be able to cross the underpass too, not only the hanomag!

Regarding Goodwood.

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #160 on: 20-11-2010, 23:11:06 »
Yeah, don't know how I missed zM's thread about the Goodwood tanks. So it seems to be a problem beyond SAI.

Was just looking at Djinn's SP game play review topic. From that thread (emphasis mine):

Quote
Commander AI - 7/10

Remick did an excellent job making this work for 2.3, and this is the lynch-pin in the success story, especially for older maps that have been given a new lease on life - There are still some rough edges, most noted in defenders defending, but idling till one base is capped, but with shiny possibilities over the horizon, this aspect may yet see its best days


Someone give me an example of a couple of maps that have defenders defending pointlessly. Two maps say, and I will try to fix them. Between two new maps and some fine tuning of the ones I've already done, that should warrant a new release of ESAI:FH2.

But to mildly continue my bitching, I still need more feedback before I know what to fine tune...etc.

Offline Jimi Hendrix

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #161 on: 08-02-2011, 18:02:07 »
 I tried SP3 VillersBocage and the British tanks just bunch up at the hedgerows at main base.



 :-\



Offline aserafimov

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #162 on: 08-02-2011, 19:02:09 »
did you install remick's latest fix, which solved this problem?

--->here: http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=6539.0

Offline djinn

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #163 on: 08-02-2011, 19:02:26 »
Yeah, don't know how I missed zM's thread about the Goodwood tanks. So it seems to be a problem beyond SAI.

Was just looking at Djinn's SP game play review topic. From that thread (emphasis mine):

Quote
Commander AI - 7/10

Remick did an excellent job making this work for 2.3, and this is the lynch-pin in the success story, especially for older maps that have been given a new lease on life - There are still some rough edges, most noted in defenders defending, but idling till one base is capped, but with shiny possibilities over the horizon, this aspect may yet see its best days


Someone give me an example of a couple of maps that have defenders defending pointlessly. Two maps say, and I will try to fix them. Between two new maps and some fine tuning of the ones I've already done, that should warrant a new release of ESAI:FH2.

But to mildly continue my bitching, I still need more feedback before I know what to fine tune...etc.



oh dear, I didn't see this till now. Well, if you are still interested, all maps with defenders having all the cap-pable flags basically don't have orders till any base is capped. So where they spawn is where they stay. AJ54 was able to make them defend the frontline bases, meaning they put up a real fight for those first before falling back. That's the key here - active defense

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #164 on: 08-02-2011, 20:02:04 »
Hello everyone,

I've been away for a while, but I am still interested in working with you guys to improve ESAI:FH2 Edition.

Honestly, I've been sick lately of BF2 in general and the ESAI project specifically, but I have recently started working on it again.

The main ESAI version is now at 4.1, though this I still consider to be beta version, and I am waiting for my testers to report their results with it. I've made some very big changes to the ESAI core code.

I was going to wait for more test results for 4.1 before porting the changes to ESAI over to the FH2 edition, but I could easily create a beta version for FH2 if any of you are interested in testing it.

To anyone who remembers it: my Vehicle AI mod died in a hard drive crash, and I'm not going to work on it anymore. I plan on focusing exclusively on ESAI when contributing to FH2 singleplayer/coop.

It seems there is still more to do. Today I will reinstall FH2; tommorow I will start writing some code.

Fun to be back....peace out.