Author Topic: ESAI: FH2 Edition  (Read 26849 times)

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #135 on: 13-11-2010, 01:11:14 »
EDIT:

I f--ked up ESAI:FH2 v2.0 a little bit. Refer to the ESAI:FH2 Releases thread to d/l the proper files.

Sorry again to everyone, especially to cannonfodder.






« Last Edit: 13-11-2010, 09:11:31 by Void »

Offline Gemini

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #136 on: 13-11-2010, 02:11:52 »
Done! thanks a lot! I'm going to try them now!

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #137 on: 13-11-2010, 02:11:40 »
Problem!

I didn't pack ESAI:FH2 2.0 correctly - I left out the StrategicAreas.ai file for Supercharge 64, and I didn't organize the files for that map by game mode.

If any of you are getting crap CO orders on Supercharge, that would be the reason why.

Shit!

I'm sorry all.

Looks like I need to release a corrected package, which I am about to do. ESAI:FH2 v2.0.1 I guess... damn.

cF, I will save you re-uploading a correct set of pre-patched map archives and compile them myself. I'll post the link after I up them.

Correction coming ASAP.

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #138 on: 13-11-2010, 03:11:07 »
Ok, I've corrected my mistake. ESAI:FH2 is now at version 2.0.1. I've compiled the pre-patched server archives as promised, and have them uploaded to filefront.

I'm going to link to both in the ESAI:FH2 Release thread.

cF, could you just replace your links with a reference to my release thread in your D/L sticky? I will take responsibility for uploading new ESAI versions, as well as pre-patched map archives.

That will let me make corrections faster if I need to in the future, and may help keep my head out of my ass before I make a release to begin with.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #139 on: 13-11-2010, 07:11:46 »

It will pop up in debug mode as an error,but is acceptable

You should also check if the AI template calls for this,(not sure what happens if the below code isnt inserted,or if another firing pose is used,regarding bots only)

Quote
weaponTemplate.setFiringPose Lying

I tried to modify Boys AT rifle so bots will immediately go prone instead of wandering around with his AT rifle when he sees enemy. But when i modify them, it sends back the error message. However, since the "value" of the weapon against human was downed below the revolver, they will immediately switch to the revolver when sees human enemy. But when he sees tank/vehicles, here comes the difficult part, the bots more often rush towards it holding sticky bombs instead of go prone and start shooting AT rounds. It seems several weapons has a kind of "range limit" but his mostly are disregarded. So AT rifles are never effectively used by the AI.

Back to topic.

The latest ESAI (esp ver 2.0) seems to have positive effects in most maps you modified, especially in Goodwood and Villers-Bocage. Right now, the fight is more balanced, playing for both sides were never any better than this. Let's say on Goodwood, using default AI, we would better off playing as Britain to seek for challenge. As their offensive more than often stalled rather easily.

Now, both sides face more various degree of adversary, which is fascinating. Sometimes the Germans are too slow for a while (due to bots poor navigating capability - discuss this in other thread). But then they counter attack as swift as they can using whatever resources they have to make the round more interesting for the British. Cagny is now an important battleground instead of "just another CPs", since both sides fight ferociously over this territory as it should have.

Gazala is improving, especially for the Germans, they are now at least, able to bleed the Brits by capping the Knightsbridge. They used to lose the game the entire time, but now they managed to beat the Britain several times.

Lebisey, the British bots are indeed smarter, they attack and cap without hesitation (which bleeds them many tickets). But their attack aren't just aggressive enough for the German tanks to spawn at their main base. So it end up being the Germans getting massacred when trying to recap their lost position in vain. Until the British advanced a bit and capturing at least one CP, the Germans then could regain their position by the additional Panzers that spawned to the condition.

Overall, ESAI does it job by balancing the game between both sides. My argument of defensive bots > offensive bots are now not entirely true. The Brits won at Lebisey last time I checked, despite me playing as the Germans. When they owned the AT positions, they use the PaK guns and mortars against us, which is quite frustrating.

Offline Devilman

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #140 on: 13-11-2010, 08:11:08 »
I tried to modify Boys AT rifle so bots will immediately go prone instead of wandering around with his AT rifle when he sees enemy. But when i modify them, it sends back the error message. However, since the "value" of the weapon against human was downed below the revolver, they will immediately switch to the revolver when sees human enemy. But when he sees tank/vehicles, here comes the difficult part, the bots more often rush towards it holding sticky bombs instead of go prone and start shooting AT rounds. It seems several weapons has a kind of "range limit" but his mostly are disregarded. So AT rifles are never effectively used by the AI.

Feel free to start a new thread,if you want further assistance/information,regarding the above

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #141 on: 13-11-2010, 08:11:23 »
Quote
The latest ESAI (esp ver 2.0) seems to have positive effects in most maps you modified, especially in Goodwood and Villers-Bocage

Yeah! I logged about 16 hours of work on Goodwood alone- I certainly hope it is improved. Villers-Bocage I didn't have to spend as much time on. but I'm glad it is better too.

Quote
Cagny is now an important battleground instead of "just another CPs", since both sides fight ferociously over this territory as it should have.

Yeah! That was the idea when writing the SAI - to make the city the most important bit of territory. The Brits and Jerry have different approaches (strats) to taking it, but it is supposed to be priority for both sides.

Quote
Gazala is improving, especially for the Germans, they are now at least, able to bleed the Brits by capping the Knightsbridge. They used to lose the game the entire time, but now they managed to beat the Britain several times.

How can I make it better? Do the Germans always get stalled at Knightsbridge?

Quote
Lebisey, the British bots are indeed smarter, they attack and cap without hesitation (which bleeds them many tickets). But their attack aren't just aggressive enough for the German tanks to spawn at their main base....

Don't quite get you here. Could you try to clarify?

Quote
... So it end up being the Germans getting massacred when trying to recap their lost position in vain. Until the British advanced a bit and capturing at least one CP, the Germans then could regain their position by the additional Panzers that spawned to the condition.

Which position / CP do the Germans unsuccessfully try to recapture in Lebisey? I might be able to improve that. It is challenging to write SAI code and also take into account conditonal Panzer spawns.

Quote
Overall, ESAI does it job by balancing the game between both sides....

That, my friend, is the ultimate goal. Equal opportunity for both sides to win, and a good firefight in between.

Quote
... My argument of defensive bots > offensive bots are now not entirely true. The Brits won at Lebisey last time I checked, despite me playing as the Germans. When they owned the AT positions, they use the PaK guns and mortars against us, which is quite frustrating.

Heh, glad I could write some SAI code to frustrate, that is, challenge you. It is a bit unusual for the side with humans on it to lose.
 

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #142 on: 13-11-2010, 08:11:15 »
@djinn: Try Siege of Tobruk...the Allied CO continuously spams most, if not all, squads to defend the main until zee Germans take a flag. When ESAI is working you won't get that nonsense.


@Void: No worries mate, shit happens... :)

I better go update the sticky.


I tried Villers and it plays great. Although, and I'm not complaining, it tends to fall into a pattern, with the 88 stopping the Allies from quickly crossing the river.

By the time enough of them to pose a threat get across the water, zee German armour rolls in, and straight over them, and takes the Farm.

Then Allies take out the tanks, retake the Farm and try to cross the river again... :)


I did notice quite a few halftracks getting stuck at the bridges because they were trying to take too tight a turn onto it.

Offline Zoologic

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #143 on: 13-11-2010, 09:11:32 »
Quote
Quote
... My argument of defensive bots > offensive bots are now not entirely true. The Brits won at Lebisey last time I checked, despite me playing as the Germans. When they owned the AT positions, they use the PaK guns and mortars against us, which is quite frustrating.

Heh, glad I could write some SAI code to frustrate, that is, challenge you. It is a bit unusual for the side with humans on it to lose.
 

When we were overwhelmed by a "too good" positions, I think any human players couldn't just win without the proper bot support.  ;)  Try FH1 Stalingrad maps. Play as Russian and climb the hills against German MG42 positions, that would be just too difficult.

Those MP-goers would like to taste how is it like to be pwned by a good AI. This guy (bot named Y. Pasholok (Taranov), one of the FH2 developers) manned a PaK40 on Center AT Position and raped us a lot of times. Finally I killed him using lucky rifle-grenade shot. But we were lost since we bled too many tickets already.

Quote
Gazala is improving, especially for the Germans, they are now at least, able to bleed the Brits by capping the Knightsbridge. They used to lose the game the entire time, but now they managed to beat the Britain several times.

How can I make it better? Do the Germans always get stalled at Knightsbridge?

Gazala main problem is that most of its CPs are located deep within mined perimeter, which requires motorist bots to abandon their vehicle and walk on foot to fight for the flag. Now bots can capture 150th box without leaving their vehicles by camping on the east side of 150th box (where the CP's vehicles spawned). But it gets difficult to recapture since huge waves of bots keep spawning there. Only coordinated air attacks would have the chance to do something with the defending bots, in order for the attacking bots to cap the CP.

Knightsbridge position is too deep, the Germans could only hold it for a while before being outgunned by British tanks.

The problem is that the bots, after advancing deep within, they soon forgot to spawn from their mainbase and bring their big guns to the frontline. Instead, they spawned on the front trying to vainly defend their position against armors, halftracks, trucks, using their handheld weapons.

Quote
Quote
Lebisey, the British bots are indeed smarter, they attack and cap without hesitation (which bleeds them many tickets). But their attack aren't just aggressive enough for the German tanks to spawn at their main base....

Don't quite get you here. Could you try to clarify?

Quote
... So it end up being the Germans getting massacred when trying to recap their lost position in vain. Until the British advanced a bit and capturing at least one CP, the Germans then could regain their position by the additional Panzers that spawned to the condition.

Which position / CP do the Germans unsuccessfully try to recapture in Lebisey? I might be able to improve that. It is challenging to write SAI code and also take into account conditonal Panzer spawns.

In Lebisey, the Brits normally cap all 3 AT positions (west-center-east), it makes the Germans bleed and spawn tanks. Before ESAI, it take them a lot of time to finally cap any of the AT positions.

Now, they with the help of their tanks can easily overrun our defense in AT positions and cap all 3 of them early on. However, despite bleeding the Germans, the Panzers won't spawn until 4 CPs are captured by the British. The fight is too fierce perhaps, man-on-man fights, British tanks are knocked out by Panzerfausts or explosives, both German and British couldn't gain any significant positioning to win over any other.

In several rounds, they managed to breakthrough East AT and secured Lebisey HQ. And spawned 1 x Tiger I tank, 1 x Panzer IV H, and 1 x Panzer III N on "Road To Caen" (German main base).

I think you already know that Goodwood also has tank spawning conditions. The German "super obliterator" King Tiger will spawn only after both Cagny positions are capped by the Brits.

I tried Villers and it plays great. Although, and I'm not complaining, it tends to fall into a pattern, with the 88 stopping the Allies from quickly crossing the river.

By the time enough of them to pose a threat get across the water, zee German armour rolls in, and straight over them, and takes the Farm.

Then Allies take out the tanks, retake the Farm and try to cross the river again... :)

I did notice quite a few halftracks getting stuck at the bridges because they were trying to take too tight a turn onto it.

This is the "balance" i'm talking about. The bridges might be troublesome for the bots to cross smoothly.

Villers is a bit more "manageable" for human players, because their attacks mainly come from one direction. The bots rarely use northern bridges and go directly to Tilly-sur-Seulles, confusing the human player trying to attack the Point 213 or defending the Farm (the most common battlegrounds).

In contrast, Lebisey is chaotic, 3 attacking waves, heading for 2 targets. A single human player can only choose to defend one. Thus, human player losing here is a bit less unusual  ;D
« Last Edit: 13-11-2010, 09:11:06 by ZooMotorpool »

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #144 on: 13-11-2010, 10:11:27 »
Yeah it's a "good balance", human players aside, neither side has any distinct advantage over the other.

And if you let the bots play the round by themselves, I reckon there wouldn't be much between them at the end.


To suggest the defensive positions on zee German side of the river are effective, is somewhat of an understatement... :P

I tried going the long way (north) but the 88 got me every time.

I found it was easier to just run the gauntlet to Villers on foot. Although it's not easy due to all the greenery in the way.

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #145 on: 13-11-2010, 20:11:59 »
cF,zM,Djinn: thanks for all the testing and feedback since I showed up around here.

So far, sounds like we are making progress, though a few things may need touching up.

I'll let this thread hopefully collect some more feedback before I decide what to work on next. (I'm still playing with FH2 tank AI anyway, and also doing some work on the upcoming BFHeroes:BF2 conversion mod).

As I write this, v2.0.1 has 11 downloads, and the corrected ESAI map pack has 4.

Come on now, unknown ladies and gentlemen who have tried this out...let's hear it. Bugs ? Improvements ? Problems? Epic Fail ? Post yer comments please!

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #146 on: 14-11-2010, 05:11:52 »
Lebisey is so much fun... :)

One thing I noticed was, once the 3 AT flags are taken, zee Germans mostly tend to spawn up near the Church, very few spawn at the HQ(?).

Although this isn't really a drama as the 88 tends to prevent the Brits from taking it easily.



Regarding BFHeroes:BF2, it's a stupid question, but will you need BFH to run it?

And how far away is it?

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #147 on: 14-11-2010, 05:11:14 »
Off Topic:

The BFHeroes:BF2 mod won't require BFH to run. I've been beta testing/helping a little in development, and it is a really cool mod (else I wouldn't waste my time with it, heh.)

I think Apache Thunder (the head dev) will be ready to release soon. Right now I'm helping him recode the BFH vehicles he has ported in so they will work under BF2, and am also working on the vehicle AI. Not sure when it will all be ready, but it will be released sooner than later.

Back on topic:

Glad you like Lebisey. I spent a lot of time on the code. I'll take your comment about Germans not spawning at the base enough into consideration however. I'm sure I can improve that aspect of the tactics a little.

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #148 on: 14-11-2010, 06:11:41 »
 8)


Off-topic: Awesome. I thought it may have been a case of, like SF, needing to have BFH (for the level files) to run it.

I'll have to keep my eye out for it... :)

Offline Void

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Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
« Reply #149 on: 20-11-2010, 00:11:27 »
Hello again everybody,

With all due respect to everyone at this forum...

It's been about a week since my last post, and it seems that this thread has gone cold. At the time of this writing, ESAI:FH2 has been downloaded 40 times, and the pre-patched map set about 30 times.

I'm not looking for a pat on the back here. What I would really love to know is if I have any kind of user base, or if people are merely trying this out and then deleting it.

Or in other words, I've finished up for now what I was doing with the other mod I mentioned and am trying to find out if this project warrants further development, now that I have time.

So to all the lurking ESAI:FH2 users out there (if there are any) - please, post your feedback. Good, bad, whatever.... just tell me something people.