Author Topic: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry  (Read 14559 times)

Offline General_Henry

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #90 on: 28-09-2010, 05:09:46 »
i would still have that feeling even when my kills are only shown to me

Hmmm Hmmm a JU52 teamkilled half of the team spawned...

I mean, those are certainly some fun things to have. That "wtf" moment is certainly worth my time invested in gaming. Removing kill messages are not going to make the game much more realistic, but it removes some big element of fun.

It is also some kind of morale-boosting when you know that your team was pwning the other team.

Offline Smiles

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #91 on: 29-09-2010, 18:09:30 »
Id like the kill messages to stay.
I wouldnt mind removing hit indicators for armored targets.
Id like the been killed by, kill message left center to be removed, only because its to visual and a its not really that neccesary if youve joined a squad.
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Offline Beaufort

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #92 on: 02-01-2011, 22:01:13 »
Lots of good points against kill messages and hit indicator here :
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=12890.105.

Nowhere else to answer, so I post here.

Quote from: Natty
Quote from: Beaufort

Quote from: Natty
I don't know why the game shouldn't be informing me about the primary action of the game...

S-mines
At-mines
Handgrenades
Mortars
Artillery

You don't want killmessages for these weapons?... Then we might as well remove it all or? What fun is it to place S-mines or Shell with Mortar if you don't know when you kill someone?
Because if you can't see or hear what you hit with all those weapons you talked about, it is called blind firing. Are you saying
this is what makes this game "fun" ?
huh what?..... grenades you throw in to buildings or over walls.. it's not "blind firing".. s-mines/at-mines you place and await the killmessage to pop up informing you if you succeeded or not.. mortar/arty shells you dont always have a dead spot on the guys who die, they can be hiding in bushes, under roofs, trees you name it...
Removing killmessages from these weapons would make them pointless.. Why would I sit in the arty and shell the battlefield if I don't see when enemies die ?

Yes, shooting grenades over walls and into buildings are counted as blind firing. Exemple on PHL : they hide behind a wall to the left of "bridge" and start to spam grenades over the river. Without hit indicator and kill messages this kind of thing couldn't happen, because the throwers wouldn't have their kick seeing how many ennemies they kill... Same goes for nades into a building, you always hear the victims moan or go upstairs to check for survivors. If you rely only on kill messages, you are blind firing.

About artillery : If the targets are hidden, well good for them :P, and if they are outside of your visual an you kill them nevertheless, it is also blind firing. Just ask the german team at Lebisey how fun they think it is...

Smines and AT mines, very few players are using them without looking after them, and they are not offensive weapons anyway so ...

Im insisting because kill messages and such realy spoil the game on many levels. If some want to keep them that is fine, but we could have an option for servers willing to try more realism without downloading Vicious mod :P

Quote from: Natty
Quote from: Sicario
also: you can remove kill message without removing teamkill mesage.
Yes, but why only feed back on the negative experience?

It is just a measure against teamkillers I guess, to kick them out swiftly. It keeps the server clean.
« Last Edit: 03-01-2011, 01:01:01 by Beaufort »

Offline Yustax

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #93 on: 02-01-2011, 23:01:47 »
Im insisting because kill messages and such realy spoil the game on many levels. If some want to keep them that is fine, but we could have an option for servers willing to try more realism without downloading Vicious mod :P

The game should be fun as well, removing them just because you feel more "realism" doesnt cut it.

Offline Beaufort

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #94 on: 02-01-2011, 23:01:10 »
That is not just me, and besides you could still play on server with kill messages on, so why not ?

Offline Atkins

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #95 on: 03-01-2011, 00:01:37 »
Some good arguments in this thread, for both sides.
I can imagine as can be seen from the resistance in this thread that removing DMs (death messages) isn't that popular idea for somewhat arcadish ww2-shooter like FH2. I still would not mind that if some server owners run some sort of *realism mode* from time to time, if that is even possible.

Even 99.9% of RO and DH servers use DMs, and someone mentioned in that other thread that RO is "uber realistic", which it btw is not. After several years of DMs, ppl are so used to it that trying to change it completely will just not work.

That hit-indicator on the other hand seems weird and redundant for someone not used to the BF-series. Other games and mods seems to do quite well without such weird feature.

Offline Eat Uranium

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #96 on: 03-01-2011, 00:01:00 »
Whoops, I realised I put this in the wrong thread:

The reasoning I'd give for removal of the hit indicator is this: on some of the gamenights, the server has still been running with some FHT settings, of which no hit indicator is one.  After a short period of missing it, it starts to become more fun.  It also cuts down on long range shooting somewhat - if you know that you can spray an area 300m away with your MG and find anyone hiding there by the little flashing x, you are more inclined to do it.

I personally would like to see the kill messages simplified and delayed.  The former being if I shoot you with an SMLE, it says "Me [Rifle] You".  The delay would be about ~10 seconds maybe, and there would be no 'You killed so-and-so' notification (the one that appears under the chat).  The victim still sees the 'You were killed by Me' notification immediately though.

The idea being that say you know that someone is in a building.  You throw in a grenade and wait till it explodes.  Currently, you would then instantly know if the grenade did any damage (hit indicator) and if it killed anyone (kill message + notification).  With the above system, you wouldn't know this unless you waited ~10 seconds, or until you went in.  Now I don't know about you, but I love the kind of psychology you have here.

Offline ajappat

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #97 on: 03-01-2011, 00:01:00 »
That's brilliant EU   :D

That would really be fun and I see no reason why this wouldn't work (other than game engine)

Offline McCloskey

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #98 on: 03-01-2011, 01:01:10 »
Yes, shooting grenades over walls and into buildings are counted as blind firing. Exemple on PHL : they hide behind a wall to the left of "bridge" and start to spam grenades over the river. Without hit indicator and kill messages this kind of thing couldn't happen, because the throwers wouldn't have their kick seeing how many ennemies they kill.

Is it just me or does this sound like a good anti-nadespamming measure? It's because ppl wouldn't know if they killed someone why they would no longer keep throwing grenades left & right... so logically they would save them for occasions where they'd know if they have a chance of killing their target (because they actually have one) - like clearing out buildings.

That being said, I support removal (even a partial one) or delay of kill messages.
« Last Edit: 03-01-2011, 01:01:06 by McCloskey »

Offline Beaufort

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #99 on: 03-01-2011, 01:01:41 »
Yes, I don't mind if players use nades as they should, what I want is not to have this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo
or artillerists blind-shelling the same position over and over again.

Well, at least on some servers ... :P
« Last Edit: 03-01-2011, 01:01:12 by Beaufort »

Offline Natty

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #100 on: 03-01-2011, 08:01:19 »
Yes, I don't mind if players use nades as they should

and there it came  ;). The problem is not the messages then, it is that players don't play as you think they should play. Maybe they think that they should, throw nades to the "left and right" and over the wall at PHL?.... Every WW2 movie Ive seen, soldiers use grenades to throw in to houses, over walls etc.. "Blind firing" to see if there are enemies there.

When do you propose I "should" use the nades then? When I see an enemy storming towards me over a field?

Look at any Fh2 map... even without the KillMessages or Hit indicator, you still would know where the enemies are, because that is the way our maps are built. They would still "spam" the nades over the same walls/hedges and in to the same windows, because they know there are dudes lurking there.

Removing their feedback will not make it safer for you hiding in there, they will not "save their nades for when they really need them". Players that have a nade will throw it in to the window because he has a nade and can throw it in to the window.

If the real problem you feel is the existence of nades and riflenades, well then that is a totally different discussion and can be adressed instead :)

There is really only one good answer to this whole debate, and Ciupita nailed it down for you clear, read this please, it explains everything :)

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=12890.167
Quote
Note: this message doesn't take part of that hit indicator discussian but the whole topic

What you PR fans don't notice (note: I like PR very much): FH2 is about World War 2, PR is about modern wars. After CoD4 Modern Warfare came out, WW2 games have been a long off fashion. Why PR has massive amount of american players? America is fighting a war in Afghanistan and people who aren't fit for army or don't want to fight real war, can still experience that war in game since it's portrayed there. They want to fight in war what they can see from TV every day.

Also: PR features battles of like 300 vs. 300 when FH2 shows up larger scale battles (thousands vs. thousands). When PR takes smaller battles, it's obvious that they highlight teamwork and squad tactics etc.

WW2 was as chaotic as FH2 gameplay. If we start concentrating on small unit tactics (aka. start building hardcore realism teamplay thingys), we can't have those large scale battles (which FH2 is about) anymore. FH2 gameplay is good as it is, maybe removing some 1s1k tank kills and that's it. If I want small squad tactics WW2, I play RnL for HL2, it's meant for it.

And now for latest topic in this thread: I could live without hit indicators and killmessages, but I'm not annoyed because of them.

Offline SiCaRiO

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #101 on: 03-01-2011, 09:01:42 »
i fail to see how removing kill message turns FH2 massive combats to PR strategic squad movement

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #102 on: 03-01-2011, 10:01:21 »
That's not the point Sicario. Ciupita meant the discussion in general.
Removing indicators for me, as I've stated before, would definitely reduce the fun I have playing the game.
Now there is nothing against having servers running without DM / HI and perhaps a dev will find the time to code something for you there, but I wouldn't like to see this in general.
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Offline donjuan

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #103 on: 03-01-2011, 10:01:34 »
I think that the problem is that you guys don´t play FH at all...
You are just doing theory and more theory and you forgot how FH actually plays and feels.
If you were on Crete, storming the monastery with a whole squad and a MP40, you wouldn´t give a shit about killmesagges and hit-indicators!

Offline Beaufort

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #104 on: 03-01-2011, 10:01:47 »
The post of Ciupita should have been posted to Vicious topic imo.

You realy are nit picking, the story with PHL (which is only an exemple) involves an ammo box and a true blind nade spamming bf2 style ... That is not as they should be used, is it ?

What about everything else I have said ?
« Last Edit: 03-01-2011, 10:01:29 by Beaufort »