Author Topic: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry  (Read 14069 times)

Offline Ahonen

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #45 on: 26-09-2010, 15:09:03 »
You're in a tank.
you blow up.
Someone killed you.

You're telling me the game would be more fun if you had absolutely no idea who killed you and with what weapon? Give me a break.

Yes. It means a good opponent killed me without me knowing from where came the shot.
Thus I will be on my guard next time.

Stop believing that you can have the element of surprise for more than 15 seconds in a game.

People die and come back to life to hunt you down.  Kill messages or not.  You can't have ambush spots that work for more than 1 or 2 kills.  In rare instances you can find a spot where you can mow down the enemy, but they can't find a good way to flank you because of the layout of statics.


You can keep the element of surprise.
Say you ambush three Shermans, and kill the middle one.
The shot came from the side, so none of them saw it coming.
Thus, they don't know what hit them, at what range and from where.
It could've been a lone soldier with a Faust hiding in a bush on the side of the road.
But the message will tell them that it is a StuG, they'll know it came from, let's say, the right because there's no line of fire on the left, and they'll react accordingly.
When they shouldn't.
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 15:09:40 by Ahonen »
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Offline Natty

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #46 on: 26-09-2010, 15:09:17 »
Phillip nailed it^ that is what I tried to say!  8)

Offline djinn

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #47 on: 26-09-2010, 15:09:14 »
My point is simple logical argument dont justify a change, esp. When they go against established team policy and esp. universal Game theory.

Offline Natty

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #48 on: 26-09-2010, 15:09:34 »
When they shouldn't.

"shouldn't"?

Let me ask you: if you just go BOOM and die and have no idea what killed you and who. How do you plan your moves for your next spawn? Where to spawn, with what kit and what vehicle you plan on taking?

in effect: the entire purpose of Battlefield  :-\

Offline Ahonen

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #49 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:28 »
When they shouldn't.

"shouldn't"?

Let me ask you: if you just go BOOM and die and have no idea what killed you and who. How do you plan your moves for your next spawn? Where to spawn, with what kit and what vehicle you plan on taking?

in effect: the entire purpose of Battlefield  :-\

That's why you play in groups, so that there's always one guy with the adequate weapon or driving the right vehicle.
Also, if you got killed and couldn't see who killed you, you deserve every death that might follow.
And your enemy deserves every kill he gets.
With people looking in every direction, you can always see the shell coming.
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 16:09:06 by Ahonen »
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Offline Slayer

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #50 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:12 »
That's why you play in groups, so that there's always one guy with the adequate weapon or driving the right vehicle.
Also, if you got killed and couldn't see who killed you, you deserve every death that might follow.
And your enemy deserves every kill he gets.
With people looking in every direction, you can always see the shell coming.
No, you play in groups because it is more effective and more fun. Not because of some sort of role playing.

Offline Ahonen

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #51 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:32 »
No, you play in groups because it is more effective and more fun. Not because of some sort of role playing.

Exactly, because it is more effective, as I said in my post. I never said anything about roleplaying.
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Offline phillip

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #52 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:21 »
Quote
You can keep the element of surprise.
Say you ambush three Shermans, and kill the middle one.
The shot came from the side, so none of them saw it coming.
Thus, they don't know what hit them, at what range and from where.
It could've been a lone soldier with a Faust hiding in a bush on the side of the road.
But the message will tell them that it is a StuG, they'll know it came from, let's say, the right because there's no line of fire on the left, and they'll react accordingly.
When they shouldn't.


More likely..

You shoot one in the side.
"Guys something shot me, I think it came from the right" Why because the still alive player is sure it wasn't in front of him and a host of players on his team is in the area to his left.
One tank moves into the same spot scanning right and the second tank flanks the area to the right.

People know where you are because they are still breathing, not because you are uber at ambushing.  If you get 3 tanks in a row at the same spot, it isn't because you are uber.  It is because the other idiots are not communicating.


PLUS
Ambushing doesn't really increase the fun factor of the game for anyone other than yourself.  You are like the irritating sniper that sits in a bush a picks off people so that he can boast about his 12-0 KDR.  Go cap a flag.

Offline Ahonen

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #53 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:32 »

"Guys something shot me, I think it came from the right" Why because the still alive player is sure it wasn't in front of him and a host of players on his team is in the area to his left.
One tank moves into the same spot scanning right and the second tank flanks the area to the right.


That's exactly the kind of behaviour I promote, scanning your surroundings.
But most people don't need to do that thanks to the kill messages.


PLUS
so that he can boast about his 12-0 KDR.  Go cap a flag.

I ambush tanks to prevent them from reaching the frontlines.
Infantry and tanks cap, tank hunters hunt tanks.

And if you had read my previous posts, I'm all for removing the kill count as well.
I don't even give a damn about my score, as long as I do my job.
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 16:09:24 by Ahonen »
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Offline djinn

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #54 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:57 »
There isnt a good enough communication aparatus. Even at best, we are working off the limited BF2 engine

And pubbies arent that coordinated. Like I said, and Natty has been trying to get across, FH2 is about a balance between realism and fun.

Your suggestion skews it to realism, making gameplay more gritty and hardcore than it is. You are in essence forcing random players to play differently from what they are used to

If gameplay was like in COOP, it could work, but in MP, players play as small groups with a third playing independent.

You will be breaking the system essentially.

Pubbies need a gentle nudge to improve gameplay, not a drastic shift. Too dangerous, too risky, and might not be the right direction in the end

Offline Vernah

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #55 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:29 »
Removing hit indicator and kill messages? Probably an interesting idea actually. No need to totally disregard the idea, or lol @ the OP.

However, I believe the majority of players will dislike this move. I believe for you the player, you can remove these indicators yourself, however forcing it upon other players will have to be done through a mini-mod. Also like Natty said, the mod has been out for 3 years. If you alienate the player base now, it's GG.

Maybe you could make this proposal for one of the FH2 Campaigns such as WaW or FHT. I think it may be an interesting thing to try out and see if people enjoy a feature like this. It would make things more epic and z0mg nutty I think, and players will have to make sure that cupcake is dead (DOUBLE TAP).

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #56 on: 26-09-2010, 16:09:35 »
Actually in a tourney it is even more important to know who you killed, since this builds rivalries and this is what the tourneys live from. :)
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Offline Beaufort

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #57 on: 26-09-2010, 17:09:36 »
I just would like to know what you guys think of making it optionnal sever side ? Some servers could very well run with (a better) immersive hud (than the one already made by FH2) while some other servers would just run as it is now ... Everybody wins.

PS : I, for one, would go on immersive server 90% of the time, and I'm not a big PR fan...

Stop believing that you can have the element of surprise for more than 15 seconds in a game.

That's half the problem with public play.  You sneak into a flagzone undetected and one idiot decides to shoot someone sitting on a flag/nebel/mortar before the flag is grey because it is an easy kill.  In real life , nobody knows you are there.  In the game the entire team likely does now.  There is no lasting surprise attack.  People die and come back to life to hunt you down.  Kill messages or not.  You can't have ambush spots that work for more than 1 or 2 kills.  In rare instances you can find a spot where you can mow down the enemy, but they can't find a good way to flank you because of the layout of statics.


Sorry but ... ??? Are you saying FH2 is about fighting in corridors ? If you can't play well enought to surprise your ennemy, you probably aren't playing well at all. Sorry, but it's a fact.

Besides I don't see any relation with kill messages here...

Kill messages help the social nature of the game.  Make it so that you care and want to vanquish your enemies.  If you own/get owned by someone, you can start a dialog.  You feel connected to that player.  Connections build community.


Suuure ! Not only it happens very often to start a dialog with a better player than you when he's in the other team, but it also helps teamplay and makes rounds awesome ! /sarcasm]

And FH2 is about battles, not vendetta, which means you are not supposed to know the name of most of the guys you kill... Make a mafia mod, then kill messages will work fine (and it will be awesome :)).
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 18:09:29 by Beaufort »

Offline Fuchs

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #58 on: 26-09-2010, 18:09:07 »
Me and Stonechater usually have alot of fun with just kill messages, we both take a sniper kit and try to snipe eachother on crowded maps like Fall of Tobruk.
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Offline ajappat

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Re: Removing the hit-indicator and kill messages for infantry
« Reply #59 on: 26-09-2010, 18:09:53 »
Ok 4 pages in one day, too long for me to read, but here's my two cents:

I love playing without hit indicator. For reasons OP told and becouse of crappy bf2 hit register. Sometimes I shoot enemy like million times and always see the hit indicator, but enemy just won't die. If there was no hit indicator, it would be mere "meh, maybe I didn't hit".

And never remove kill messages  ;).
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 18:09:32 by ajappat »