Author Topic: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..  (Read 1368 times)

Offline Neighbor Kid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 871
    • View Profile
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-pc/1350772-so-how-about-modtools-8.html

tells us why its so hard for those poor devs over there to create the game and patch it... i for one find this as a bullshit excuse and i encourage other mod lovers to post and write your opinion on there  i already have and gone on a rant about it.. defend our modding community !!! will they listen to us? hell if i know..
http://i52.tinypic.com/245iq1l.jpg
My Day Begins When Your Days End

Offline Sander93

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.216
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #1 on: 25-09-2010, 22:09:47 »
Well I don't see a big difference between pissed off people because there are no mod tools and pissed off people because modding is hard as hell. And I'll rather have them working full time on a new engine/game than endlessly trying to patch BC2 which goes horribly wrong each and every time or struggle to create mod tools. It's not a game as modable as BF2 anyway, or at least feels so. Small servers, small maps, weird scale etc.

And from an economic point of view, mods don't bring in any money. It's the guys that scream the most but are only a very small part of the entire community. So I can understand you would have other priorities than bringing out mod tools, while already dealing with illegal downloads etc.
« Last Edit: 25-09-2010, 22:09:33 by Sander93 »

Offline ajappat

  • "Cheater"
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.599
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #2 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:19 »
Point of this thread was  ???

Offline :| Hi

  • Masterspammer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4.944
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #3 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:36 »
Good rant, it feels like justice

[2:06:54 PM] Tolga: cant use tha shit underwater -Tolga on the G3

Offline Neighbor Kid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 871
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #4 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:58 »
Point of this thread was  ???

well obviously theres a link, and it deals with  mod tools of the BF community.. and said to voice your opinion.. i dont need to hold your hand do  i?

right sander understood, but also people are going off on the mod tools for Bf3, which is the other reason why i posted the thread and link.. considering its built on frostbite.. and no matter how hard something is some one is always willing to work on it to get it working..
« Last Edit: 25-09-2010, 23:09:34 by Neighbor Kid »
http://i52.tinypic.com/245iq1l.jpg
My Day Begins When Your Days End

Offline ajappat

  • "Cheater"
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.599
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #5 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:36 »
Wasn't it well known that BC2 won't never have modding tools? I can't see any new news in that link.

Offline Neighbor Kid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 871
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #6 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:30 »
Wasn't it well known that BC2 won't never have modding tools? I can't see any new news in that link.

if you read it also talks about BF3, and other people voicing there opions and thought of FB for BF3..  since BF3 will be on FB..
http://i52.tinypic.com/245iq1l.jpg
My Day Begins When Your Days End

Offline ajappat

  • "Cheater"
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.599
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #7 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:54 »
Oh wait, no wonder I tought that was stupid post, as I didn't notice you linked it to page 8.

Offline Neighbor Kid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 871
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #8 on: 25-09-2010, 23:09:23 »
Oh wait, no wonder I tought that was stupid post, as I didn't notice you linked it to page 8.
yea i linked it to 8 which might have been my mistake. i just copy and pasted link when i fnished my posting.. my bad
http://i52.tinypic.com/245iq1l.jpg
My Day Begins When Your Days End

Offline Kelmola

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.854
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #9 on: 26-09-2010, 00:09:23 »
For the tl;dr people and those who did not click Page 1 link:

FB1.5 (which BC2 uses even though EA touts FB2.0) requires that every time you make even the slightest change to a level, you will have to recompile ALL levels from scratch, which requires "raw" data that for 'nilla BC2 is around 80 gigs. And they don't want to give away this raw data (including motion capture information etc.) And it takes about 2-3 days for an average workstation to compile. And the compiler will crash once or twice in the process. And compiling requires several examples of expensive third-party software which are not licensed outside EA/DICE. Whenever game is patched, ALL levels, including user-made, would have to be recompiled from the raw data and with the aid of third-party software.

BF3 will use FB2.0 which is supposed to be better in some respects but principally still the same, still requiring third-party software and raw data and being clumsy. (If I were the devil's advocate I would say that the console games are the cancer that's killing PC games; a console does not have the memory and processing power to run the physics of destructible terrain and large outdoor spaces real-time, so that's why you have to "compile" even the basic physics in in the level-build phase using third-party tools.) And most FPS engines in use at the moment in most software houses are built on similar "logic". Direct quote: "FB2.0 is better suited for modtools, but it is not a shoe-in yet. I will not speculate on whether or not modtools will be released for BF3." Read: "NO FRAKKING WAY". Unless you can see mod developers paying hundreds of thousands of $/€/£ license fees and having dedicated compiler workstations and the works.

So this is why we can't have any mods for BC2/BF3/any Frostbite title and it also means that modding as we know it will have to be done on older propietary engines or in new, yet to be developed open-source engines.
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 00:09:00 by Kelmola »

Offline Neighbor Kid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 871
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #10 on: 26-09-2010, 00:09:21 »
well hopefulyl shit would change around there.. but F dice..  dam you dice pull your head outa your asses..
« Last Edit: 26-09-2010, 00:09:09 by Neighbor Kid »
http://i52.tinypic.com/245iq1l.jpg
My Day Begins When Your Days End

Offline Fuchs

  • No lollygagging
  • FH-Betatester
  • ***
  • Posts: 6.654
  • Traction Wars Propaganda Officer
    • View Profile
    • Traction Wars - WWII Free to Play Game
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #11 on: 26-09-2010, 01:09:23 »
@Kelmola, cheers for that, was too lazy to read the whole bunch but your text was very informative. Let's just hope the guys at Valve go out and make a Half Life 3 (not Episode 3, screw that one, a whole new game!) with like.. Source 2? Mmmm  8)
"Force answers force, war breeds war, and death only brings death.
To break this vicious circle one must do more than act without thought or doubt."

Offline Neighbor Kid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 871
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #12 on: 26-09-2010, 01:09:10 »
be nice if the source code came out for BF2? you can do anythign with that couldnt ya?
http://i52.tinypic.com/245iq1l.jpg
My Day Begins When Your Days End

Offline Cory the Otter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.815
  • Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home for breakfast.
    • View Profile
    • FA Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #13 on: 26-09-2010, 01:09:12 »
IIRC, we could modify the hardcode right now, we'd just get our asses sued for modifying copyrighted content.

Offline Ekalbs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 354
  • Bored
    • View Profile
Re: the apparent reason we dont get mod tools from dice..
« Reply #14 on: 26-09-2010, 12:09:18 »
IIRC, we could modify the hardcode right now, we'd just get our asses sued for modifying copyrighted content.

That and working with other people code is a b*tch.

Patching a program is one of the most tedious and boring things i ever have to do. Normally is a simple ordering problem or something that points to NULL. Debugging other people code is an entirely different story.

EVERY ONE codes differently at my school i follow the OOP(Object Oriented Programming) design method will most people follow traditional procedural programming. For a simple Pokemon Game W/Networking me and one of my group members spent a good portion of a week debugging the controllers for the code. he coded procedurally, this made his code look like a VCR Manual and he complained to me why i had so many classes when i could of had just one(he was wrong on this point fyi). But back to the main point i would sit and stare at his  code for hours and only see words. It got to the point where i told him just print everything to the console.

My point is debugging code is a very difficult thing, if you missed it once you probably will miss it agian. but debugging others code is F*CKING difficult and not fun as not only do you have to learn WTF the code is doing but learn how the other people code in order to fix the mistakes.

So next time you B*tch about bad coding realize that  coding an engine is F*CKING hard i have been working on mine for six month and still only have basic physics and im working alone so i dont have to code to other stander.

The mod team coders have there work cut out for them no matter how friendly a mod tool maybe. You need the patient of a cat and the wisdom of Owl to pull of what the devs do what they do and some kind of dark magic helps.

Well thats my rant i hope you enjoy it.

Ekalbs
Warhammer 40,000: Unverse At War Dev Team
Battlefield 1918 Coder