Author Topic: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)  (Read 4397 times)

Offline djinn

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So I want to make this thread the official thread for ironing out any creases for AI going into 2.3, as it seems that pops up in so many other threads.

Here's what we know so far
Big priority we need for whatever version goes with the next FH2 release:
/deployable mortar with raised perspective
/Fixed Purple Heart Lane CTD
/Bots able to use deployed mgs
/Panzer II also has repetitive sound when firing, as does mg34 ofcourse
/Bots still don't like the mg42 tripod
/Get AT riflemen to fire at ranged targets prone - I note that they stand and look at them, but think they should be firing standing, so they get transfixed and become easy prey.... Mgers don't do that for

some reason
/Slow ROF for infantry to that of unmodded FH2 bots
/Permanent known solution to fixing double-capped flags. Winterhilf figured it out. I wonder if he told anyone the solution though...

----Get Remick04 to know all the changes to AI and to implement them in for the next mod - These are those I could think off head
.AT guns don't drive around or fire AP at infantry.
.Howitzers and mortar firing with direct fire and use custom vehicles that have raised perspective
.Custom Stuka with raised elevation for takeoff
.?More accurate mgs on all planes?
.Destinguished tank types i.e heavy, light etc
.Tanks switching Shell types
.All AT bomb infantry using them
.Mg and AT rifles with fixed non-stand-firing
.Bots never bailing from static weapons, but bailing from vehicles if need be
.MOre agressive bots?
.Bots that flee or dash when 'startled'
.Choice of bombs for aircrafts depending on target
.Changed max and min range for vehicles - Panzer II might still need agression work
.Map changes in vehicle loadout. Not too sure about Strategy in Luttich though - Sort of makes ther commander spam the radio, also present in other maps


The Devs make their own tweaks to those files to improve balancing and gameplay for multiplayer. And if I included all of Drawde's files, it would revert all the work they have done back to 2.26. So I only

included a few .tweak files that I knew what they did.

Things like the fix to the 2pdr sound loop (forgot about the Flak guns but I'll try and fix that), the fix to planes firing rockets, and the AI arty. I didn't include the stuka divehorn in its current

condition for 3 reasons. 1. It still needed balancing. 2. It would affect multiplayer. And 3. It uses the AIX sound file, and though I know Clivewill has been helping, I don't want to add anything from

another mod until I know with 100% certainty that we have their permission. That doesn't mean I'll never add the Stuka divehorn files, I definitely want to, but It's something that would require a bit more

internal discussion before applying it.


Partculars

El Alamein
/Broken Commander AI that rears its flaws as the flags change hands
/Drawde updated this with new vehicles that weren't in the original such as the VW Beatle and the SDK231
/Aparently no path from German middle base to Meteriya Ridge's 88 defenses except the narrow path along the ridge, so bottle-neck battle for that flag in both directions
/Bots don't use the Panzer III at the middle German base

Alam Halfa
/DON'T CHANGE A THAING! Thank you WinterHilf :-)
/ Ok, to be realistic, bots seem to see the final Brit base as the next line of attack once the final line defense is left, amkiing Panzers roll into senseless slaughter for a crossed out flag, rather than

following the push-mode - Battle dwindles to stalemate for some reason at this point save for weak attempts for that uncap

Olympus
/Bots spawn at German airfield and idle right next to the Stuka, never actrually seeing it, using instead the other Stuka and one ME109
/THis map reveals the epic fail of the Stuka's auto-divehorn since the plane flies in a fashion that keep the horn on indefinitely

Invasion of Crete
/THis map reveals the epic fail of the Stuka's auto-divehorn since the plane flies in a fashion that keep the horn on indefinitely
/Planes may need to be repositioned to be parallel - Stukas often collide and get partly or totally damaged

Sidi Rezegh
/Shows the lack of use of Special AP by the Panzers with the numerous heavy Brit tanks, making this battle a route. I think any damage noted on the Heavies may be from luck shots or the 88, but I don't think

Panzers use spacial APs
/Only one 88 used making the Airfield easily overrun, might be a pathmap issue, not sure
/No mg used at all! Might need spawn mgs, especially at the 2 storey house - Same for AT guns
/Strongly Recommend moving cap area totally underground to make it an infantry cap base and prevent unstoppable heavies camping it to cap - Would also make for some interesting infantry combat
/ That flag also suffers from double-cap issue

Seige of Tobruk
/Slight commander issue once all flags but Tobruk outskirts are capped, making German offensive gring to a halt
/Good platform for trying to figure out how to get Brits to defend the frontline base as first commander order - THis was achieved in AJ51's Tobruk night map found on my Alam Halfa DL page

Fall of Tobruk
/ For some reason, Brits never use the Stuarts
/ Germans NEVER respawn at the rear base, making armor support non-existent once any one base is capped.

Bardia
/64 map available on my DL site, only issue is the wooden fence not being seen by bots and thus making them camp along it, but not a big issue, even with 96 bots - Worth including into the mod
/Double-cap flag at the bridge base i.e. the only one at the Brit side of the river

Goodwood
/ Bots don't spawn near the howitzers, so they never get used - Could use become a bot spawn to ensure use
/German tanks are not navmeshed to pass through fences, and yet they sometimes drive into the field that is fenced on 3sides, after the dikes, making them queue in that area
/Ensure bots never spawn in the upstairs spawn area of the Isolated German base where the Marder 1s are. They don't know how to climb downstairs... *Hint, hint*

Gazala
/Bots tend to ignore the frontline bases once a first attempt fails and try push inland, allowing brits on those points nip them at the heels as they try to battle superior allied tanks. A definite axis of

advance should fix this
/This map could be made more interesting with a pathway through that diagonal leading from the German main to the British outpost (i.e the one that isn't a British box/hill defense)
/Other pathway from the British main straight to the Box/Hill could create a new axis of advance for Tommy
/Needs spread spawning. Boxes can otherwise become over-crowded and uncappable


Giarabub
/Best AI work
/Could later use navmeshed castle walls and staircases as well as more than the few entry ways to allow Brits to attack from all possible sides


Purple Heart lane
/ Very good navmesh - Little or no work required
/May be worth locking foward-only facing mgs to prevent US bots using them to aim at nothing once that base is capped

Point du Hoc
/Little or no work required
/Future work may include allowing French guns to be 'entered', not manned, so that US bots see them as targets to destroy
/POssible way to get US bots driving the LCAs to the cliff would be work on the ropes, so that bots see them as vehicles to use and move 'foward in',  Humans still need to throw them up though
/ Alternative would be to make bots drive up to the cliffs and fire at defending Germans while humans get to the top alone. Would require one-second cap at top of ridge to allow humans to survive cap time

and have bots spawn immediately after, and suicide or die below once enemy resisitance crumbles in that area


Luttich
/AI works perfect to current map layout - Doesn't mean map plays nicely though
/ Could make foward spawn areas in the field for both sides cap-pable, making bots fan out after the town is secure
/ 'Defend here' for all Allied bases would ensure each gets a sufficient amount of defenders rather than idling at any spawn, and leaving others unguarded
/Navmesh of key houses would make town fighting more interesting
/Mgs in buildings and church could be made spawn points


Cobra
/Farm house has a serious double-cap issue
/Allies, once they've capped the farm and the mill tend to get orders to march on the airfield and bypass the railyard and the town
/Numerous German infantry get stuck at fence at their main base.
/Some Americans get stuck at a gate near their airfield

Totalize
/Could use more attacks on the German base closest to the opposite side of the bridge (The one with the panzershrek) using the side bridges, and coming straight from the Canadian main, to prevent bottleneck

on the main road
/Canadians make half-assed attack on factory, mostly requiring human intervention to cap, and then the commander tells them to cross the bridge, often forgetting the next base with the ack-ack

Arberdeen
/As fugle as this map is, its AI pathmapping is flawless... Panzers really require use of special AP to stop Valentines and Matildas though

Hyacinth
/CTD... reason yet unknown
/Could do with later navmesh of roads for vehicles, allowing Brits to come in with them
/If possible, could do with restored tanks and ?planes to destroy, making Germans enter them and hence give brits reason to destroy them, OR have humans destroy them to stop bleed


Supercharge
/German bots need to spawn in the bunker at the 88 base, or directly on the main mgs i.e. the one next to the 88 itself, and the one in the main bunker...
/British commander needs beaucoup work since aalied anvance stalls completely once all but the town is capped, with commander telling men to defend British main!?

Tunis
/Could do with spawnable mg positions besides the market square and dock, where mgs are used nicely


Anctoville
/No vehicle navmesh
/Infantry navmesh along narrow path making it a fragfest along the main road - This is NOT a major issue.
/Other mg positions could be made spawn points

Mersa Matru
/Totally spoiled Commander AI on either side. British commander spams men to uncap-defense orders from get-go, German commander tells men to defend-defend after one or two flags are capped


Unofficial AI work
/Falaise Pocket, Villers Bocage

No Known AI
/mareth Line
/Point en Bessin
/All 2.3 maps



« Last Edit: 15-08-2010, 20:08:50 by djinn »

Offline Remick04

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #1 on: 15-08-2010, 22:08:30 »
That’s quite a list. Quite a lot of which I've already addressed or I'm in the process of addressing. The commander spamming issue on a lot of maps has to do with the strategies.ai files. Sorry Drawde, but deleting them fixes a lot of the commander spam. Then it's just an issue of makeing sure the StategicAreas.ai files are set up correctly and the uncapturable bases don't have any neighbors. Which I'm currently in the process of going through all the maps and making sure their Stategicareas are set up correctly, and gameplayobjects are up to date. So, I'm glad you made this list; it will help me narrow my search for problems and fixes. I can't guarantee it will all make it into 2.3 but I hope it will.

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #2 on: 15-08-2010, 23:08:29 »
Not an issue at all. I just want us to have a log file of AI on the forum, since in the past we've always had the curse of adding new good stuff and inadvertently adding in as many bugs with it, This would keep the 'jeep straight'... And if it stays alive long enough, I'll ask a moderator to sticky it... For now though, its just an 'official-ized' extention of the other-of-such thread that  I made for Drawde's mod.


And about the Commander AI
Yer, I didn't want to say it, but honestly, alot of spam bugs did result after the last of Drawde's mod. That doesn't totally solve it all though, the 2.0 maps specifically had those up the wazoo. But many only reared their head later in the battle. Howiever, I guess it all shows on the paper ie. fixed irrespective of source, so I should rest easy

« Last Edit: 15-08-2010, 23:08:04 by djinn »

Offline Raziel

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #3 on: 25-08-2010, 08:08:28 »
Going through the list I think we forgot to mention 1 important issue

 * Bots not able to spot for arty

Offline Drawde

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #4 on: 30-08-2010, 20:08:32 »
And about the Commander AI
Yer, I didn't want to say it, but honestly, alot of spam bugs did result after the last of Drawde's mod. That doesn't totally solve it all though, the 2.0 maps specifically had those up the wazoo. But many only reared their head later in the battle. Howiever, I guess it all shows on the paper ie. fixed irrespective of source, so I should rest easy

Sorry about the commander spam bugs... didn't notice most of them myself as I very rarely play as part of a fireteam (partly due to the commander spam, ironically). Not sure why my added strategies.ai files cause commander spam, but from what Remick04 says it sounds like they're definitely the cause of the problem   >:( - annoying as they're quite useful on some maps particularly when one side needs to focus on defence (e.g Siege of Tobruk). But I'll try deleting these files and seeing if the AI can still manage OK.

Going through the list I think we forgot to mention 1 important issue

 * Bots not able to spot for arty

Not sure bots are able to do this - I've tried adding AI to binoculars, but bots never seem to use them. Spotter planes don't work either.

Apologies for my absence from the forum BTW, I've taken a break from FH2 modding lately! In a day or two I'll put the latest version of my Stuka files (with the modified dive angle) up for download. This is the only major addition/fix I've made since my last AI minimod release.

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #5 on: 30-08-2010, 20:08:32 »
Glad to see you back. TBH, focus has changed a bit since you left.

*Whispers conspiratoriously* We're all secretly under the impression 2.3 will be released in like a week and are waiting for all your work to shine through, before we pick up our shovels... or pitchforks, depending on what the case may be

Maybe, Remick, you might want to note that aspect, see if you can't ge the code from Drawde to raise the elevation. I think that's all that's left since all else is plastered every which way across this section of the forum


Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #6 on: 06-09-2010, 10:09:35 »
@Remick04
Any sign of PHL CTD after implementing Drawde's code to current build? maybe we can see if we can fix it once and for all

Offline Remick04

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #7 on: 07-09-2010, 00:09:42 »
Yes, unfortunately PHL does crash in the current internal build. I've managed to play a couple of complete rounds but thats only because the flak gun position wasn't well defended those rounds and the allies captured it very quickly. If the allies get held up at all when attacking that position the game ends up crashing. So if you guys can find and fix the problem I'll pass it along.

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #8 on: 07-09-2010, 02:09:56 »
In other words, when attacking the 88 gets interesting, the game aborts itself.... hm...

guys! Anyone wanna pick this up? I can only facilitate, since I'm stuck with a borrowed 12" pc with only 1GB RAM and no dedicated graphic card even powerful enough to play Age of Empires II let alone FH2

We have scant time before 2.3.... Let's do this! Remember what w did for Goodwood,especially Drawde, I think we can do it again, so let's

Offline Raziel

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #9 on: 07-09-2010, 09:09:17 »
Djinn, I've played PHL so many times I can't remember anymore! I've also tried removing the usage of weapons (handheld etc) as Drawde had suggested but to no avail! I'm out of ideas really!

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #10 on: 07-09-2010, 22:09:35 »
Maybe we should see if we can isolate stationary guns. Lets change the 88 to something else and see if it stops the CTD. I know, Iknow the 88 is fine everywhere else, but somehow attacking that position seems to cause a CTD, so its a place to start

Drawde, Aserafimov, I could really use your modding abilities to prepare replacement files for the various augmentations so we can carry this out smoothly and consistently: Copy file replacement, backup, replace, test, if error, try to narrow it down, prep new file, rinse, repeat

If no error, bring new hypothesis, prep files, rinse, repeat

ps. I'm moving this project over to the PHL testingf thread so we don't run this thread off the rails with this issue... Post any findings, suggestions or oppinions about PHL testing in that thread

thanks
« Last Edit: 07-09-2010, 22:09:49 by djinn »

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #11 on: 18-09-2010, 15:09:04 »
@Drawde and Remick04
Please, D, can you make sure any additions to your mod after 1.3 beta 2 get to Remick. Like for instance, the code to make the stuka fly higher and dive steeper.
I'm going to try and get Clivewill to officially endorse the use of his stuka sound and architecture so it gets into fh2.3.

Also, please D, see if you can get the AT riflemen to be able to actually fire when prone.

Also thinking of reverting to proper kit-limiting for players a la fh2.0 so bot tanks actually get the respect they deserve, will talk to clivewil to see if he can somehow get that code to work with bots also

Y'all let me know what you think about this, ok?

Offline Remick04

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #12 on: 18-09-2010, 21:09:53 »
At this point it wouldn't make it into 2.3, but I can always hold onto it for later releases.

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #13 on: 18-09-2010, 22:09:26 »
aaaw... still possible to be a patch for singleplayer maybe, as opposed to a mod, which prevents you playing online or is cumbersome to apply?

Offline djinn

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Re: Pathmap to 2.3: Drawde to Remick (The Fan-modders' log)
« Reply #14 on: 21-09-2010, 14:09:20 »
@Remick04
2 other curiousities, as they are the lynchpin that allow arty to fire far:

Do arty, esp. Mortars have custom versions with raised perspective for bots?

And since drawde changed them from general to custom and didnt apply it to deployable versions, do deployable mortars also have custom raised-pov versions

If not in, along with future fixes for phl, stuka etc etc, can these get into an installable sp hotfix for 2.3 after the fact?