Winter War

[Flyboy1942]

I agree with most here. The Finnish front was a ton of fun in FH1, and I would love to see it added to FH2, but logistically speaking, it would be easier to add the Eastern front because the devs would only have to add the russians and some modified German stuff. With the winter war, they would need to add the russians, and the Finns.

But I guess in the end these discussions cant really go anywhere since the next theatre is so far off.

Why isn't anyone pushing for the early Polish front, btw? :p

[naoko]

rain or strom for a map 

[Kelmola]

I agree with most here. The Finnish front was a ton of fun in FH1, and I would love to see it added to FH2, but logistically speaking, it would be easier to add the Eastern front because the devs would only have to add the russians and some modified German stuff. With the winter war, they would need to add the russians, and the Finns.

But I guess in the end these discussions cant really go anywhere since the next theatre is so far off.

Why isn't anyone pushing for the early Polish front, btw? :p

If the developers do the "main" Eastern Front first, they "only" have to do the Soviets (since they have at least some German units done, sans reskinning). Building on that, they would only need to add Finns or Poles to get Winter/Continuation war or the Fall of Poland. Bit by bit.

[Seth_Soldier]

Indeed, it depends on the work put on it.
Imo, mapping for the finnish would be the most time consuming.(~6 months developpment)
About weaponery, there is no problem, finnish could still use capture soviet stuff until they get their own national weapons in later patches.
I doubt we will see a new player model. it's too much work for a minor faction and this time will rather be used for the different soviet player models.

But overall, i wouldn't worry if we don't do something very specific. Imo mapping will rather decide if they will be in the eastern front patch (the day we do a eastern front patch).

[Flippy Warbear]

How I been thinking about things, I think that Finland would be the best presented in a humble way.
That means:

- Playermodels / Gear is of course proper, as supposed to.
- One, maximum of two maps of Winter War
- Two, maximum four maps of Continuation War
- Specific weapons (italians got theirs, why not finns too?)

Maps I'd see most realistic would be:

- Summa, Taipale, Terenttilä, Suomussalmi or Kollaa for a regular Winter War battle setting where the finns defend against waves of man and material.
- If another map for Winter War is made, it could be the unique proposed Raate road with objectives.
- Battle of Tali and Ihantala, which would of course be way too big to have in one map. But one could choose to map only Ihantala, or battle of Portinhoikka or battles concentrating around Leitimo lake.
- Äyräpää-Vuosalmi seems like a very realistic scenario as it would provide both tanks, airplanes, infantry and even small naval combat (not literally naval, just crossing the river with ferries and sturmboats)

Anyhoo, whenever we get there and if there is a dev who decides to do a finnish map, they know I am there for them. I know some of the areas like my own pockets, so we would get Mersa Matruh, or Sfakia like realistic places. I would not let another "Karelia" from FH to happen. Not as long as I live.

[Ts4EVER]

Problem is that Winter War and the battles in the summer would need different playermodels.

[Flippy Warbear]

Isnt that obvious?

Not only playermodels but different weapons too.

Finns used their own version of Mosin Nagant, the M/27 Pystykorva during Winter War and in The Continuation War by the year 1944 Pystykorva would have been replaced by the M/39 Ukkopekka. It kinda reminds me of Lee Enfield thing. From SMLE to No4 throughout the years. So both M/27 and M/39 would have to be made.

Finns also sported Molotov Cocktails during Winter War, so those would have to be made aswell.

FH2 currently has the early version of the Suomi M/31 which suits just fine for the Winter War. But we would need the Suomi M/31 SJR with the extended muzzlebrake for the later Continuation War maps.

Also goes by without saying finns also used M/26 Lahti-Saloranta lightmachinegun during both wars, but I would personally like to see it in Winter War and early Continuation War maps because by the summer -44, almost every Saloranta had been replaced by the captured russian manufactured DP-lightmachineguns because Saloranta was quite unreliable and had small magazine capacity. Consider M/26 as the Breda lightmachine gun for the Italians, almost as shit. Saloranta was nicknamed as "Assembled Mistakes" from all sorts of stupid errors they made while constructing this weapon.

Finnish would of course need their trusted puukko aswell. Finns never really sported bayonet business because they didnt have some proper bayonet to be attached to their rifles. And like 99% of men had their own puukko's with them.

Also, a lot of other things needed to make out the finnish army such as:
- Lahti L-39 anti-tank gun for either early continuation war maps or for -44 with its anti-air version. This weapon would be the most realistic choice for Winter War, but only a couple of prototypes reached the frontline, so it would not be realistic to have them there, unfortunately. I'd consider it as low-priority.
- Captured vehicles with their own camo-patterns, mostly map specific. I could imagine a Sotka, a Klimi, a Pikku Sotka and T-28 for this one particular event.
- Sturms with their finnish modifications. I'd have two versions. One with logs attached to the sides and one without those logs. As not all of the stug's were equipped with all the sporting finnish modification due to lack of time.

[Biiviz]

One without logs attached to the sides and one without those logs.

Shouldn't one have them as well?

But seriously, I agree with your post. The landscapes of these battles would be in deep snow, in foggy deep (or bombed to pieces) forests and frozen lakes in the Winter and in thick green forests and fields during the Summer. With lots of foxholes, trenches and hidden MG nests for the Finns and overwhelming armor, artillery and manpower superiority from the Russians.

How the hell this is going to be balanced in-game, I do not know.

[Waw_Slayer]

I suppose "makkarasota" will not included

[Flippy Warbear]

Fixed, thanks.


Well to be honest, if Tali-Ihantala is ever going to be made, you wouldnt see other than foxholes or dirt-trenches (trenches like the ones in Siege of Tobruk, not reinforced with wood) because finns didnt have _any_ fortified positions. But they used the terrain for their advantage with great success. Not only did they seal off the main road from Tali to Portinhoikka with nature's own bottle neck, but they also used those huge stones littered all over Ihantala as cover.

Tbh, what I've fought against Shermans in Normandy, I think finnish scenarios (-44) wouldnt be too hard to balance. We did have PaK38's and PaK40's by then, we had panssarikauhu- and nyrkki to deal with soviet tanks. And we would even have some armour for the finns which are capable of dealing with the Soviet tanks. Not to forget excellent artillery and Kuhlmey Stukas. After battling the allied in the bocage country of the Normandy, I can safely say that infantry vs tanks scenario is not impossible. Just lie down and wait for that Sherman to come rumbling at you, then pop out and shoot the faust. Nyrkki perseeseen ja siellä pyöritellen!

[THeTA0123]

1 word    a letter, a "-" and 2 digits

[VonMudra]

Huh?

[Fuchs]

He wants that large AT rifle on skis.

[THeTA0123]

He wants that large AT rifle on skis.

Who does not want a 20MM Sniping rifle 

[VonMudra]

Gimme 5000 bucks, and I can buy one here   Damn thing is a beauty.