Author Topic: Battlefield 3  (Read 214109 times)

Offline SiCaRiO

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1635 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:37 »

Flag clusters and corridor shooter maps? Uhhmm that huge map called Caspian border or something, i think that one is pretty fucking huge.

yep, its pretty fucking huge, with a pretty fucking huge out of bounds area, and a pretty fucking tight flag emplacement :P

Offline Eglaerinion

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1636 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:08 »
Do you realy have to support every single thing about this game Natty ? You would be much more believable if you weren't. How can spawning on everyone can create any tactic ? You kill 5 guys but it was pointless because they are going to spawn on the sixth anyway. Get out of here.
It keeps people playing together. Size of squads is reduced which makes it easier to eliminate an entire squad and also fixes the stupid SQL switching that occurred in BF2. Not a single player from the squad will have to sacrifice their enjoyment to function as a spawn point by lying somewhere in a bush. It worked pretty well in the beta, even with random joe's.
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Offline MaJ.P.Bouras

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1637 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:11 »
Do you realy have to support every single thing about this game Natty ? You would be much more believable if you weren't. How can spawning on everyone can create any tactic ? You kill 5 guys but it was pointless because they are going to spawn on the sixth anyway. Get out of here.
It keeps people playing together. Size of squads is reduced which makes it easier to eliminate an entire squad and also fixes the stupid SQL switching that occurred in BF2. Not a single player from the squad will have to sacrifice their enjoyment to function as a spawn point by lying somewhere in a bush. It worked pretty well in the beta, even with random joe's.


And for once it actually keeps the squad together even if its completely mandatory and not coming from the player.

Offline LHeureux

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1638 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:26 »
Wtf Sicario? There's only 2 maps that are tight corridors, Metro and Bazar, both of them have open spaces.
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Offline SiCaRiO

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1639 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:12 »
i didnt said corridors,  i said tight flag emplacement, as in, the playable are in caspian and oilfield is the size of the last 2 flags in fusshe pass

Offline Beaufort

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1640 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:40 »
Do you realy have to support every single thing about this game Natty ? You would be much more believable if you weren't. How can spawning on everyone can create any tactic ? You kill 5 guys but it was pointless because they are going to spawn on the sixth anyway. Get out of here.
It keeps people playing together. Size of squads is reduced which makes it easier to eliminate an entire squad and also fixes the stupid SQL switching that occurred in BF2. Not a single player from the squad will have to sacrifice their enjoyment to function as a spawn point by lying somewhere in a bush. It worked pretty well in the beta, even with random joe's.

Yeah squad leader lying in a bush ... Cliché much ? A squad leader HAS to be on the move with its squad or he gets busted when his teammates spawn. Well, at least in FH2. ::)
« Last Edit: 17-10-2011, 17:10:18 by Beaufort »

Offline Sander93

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1641 on: 17-10-2011, 17:10:50 »
Well I must agree with Natty on this one, I prefer squad spawn over squadleader spawn. How I hate in FH2 to have an endless stream of enemies coming your way because somewhere in a bush there's a squadleader functioning as mobile spawnpoint. Instead of action, it turns into hide and seek gameplay.

In BC2, and in BF3, the squad always has all members actively attacking or at least supporting. Without giving someone the specific role of squadleading, everyone just joins the fight. Surely the system has flaws as well, but it's the lesser of two evils.

IMO I wouldn't mind though if there was a limitation based on enemies being nearby. How I got tired of being spawnkilled in the beta... and how frustrating it was to be shooting one guy and then suddenly having another dude spawning next to him when you ran out of bullets.

Offline evhgear

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1642 on: 17-10-2011, 18:10:08 »
I liked the fact that you can spawn on everybody in the squad, no more SL hidding for spawn. But I really hated that the SL have lost all his importance and strategy he had. Now, everybody are mobile spawnpoints, you simply choose where you prefer to spawn and do what you want. IMO, it simply split more the squad and no teamplay at all. Maybe it looks like, since on metro all the 32 players are in a 300meter radius, but no real teamplay. For the hole time I've played the beta, I never felt I was in a squad, since everybody do his little Rambo, and if he dies he still have the choice to spawn in combat, it happens really rare that you have to spawn at a flag. SL are no more important IMO, simply a "decoration" that some players have written on his screen.

I don't think the BF2 system is the best system, since the SL is simply a spawnpoint in a bush, or in a building like a church. With a squad doing that(hidding SL) on a push map, this little squad can stop the hole enemy team, wich can be really frustrating sometimes(SL in church in PeB). But the main advantage of this system is that the hole squad is fighting togetter. Yeah sometimes everybody are running everywhere, but a wise player will stay with his SL, and make a good squad teamplay.

Both systems have interresting advantages, but big flaws, so none of those 2 are really great IMO, maybe a  mix of those 2 could be quite interresting. Example : You can only spawn on 1 player of the squad(SL), but if he dies, you spawn on the "Assistant-SL", if the Assistant is also dead, you spawn on the third one, etc. until the SL have spawned on one of the players of the squad. So with this system the SL is not obliged to hide in a bush, and the hole squad spawn at the same place. It's my opinion, but I think that it could be an interresting alternative of both systems.
« Last Edit: 17-10-2011, 18:10:33 by evhgear »

Offline Yustax

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1643 on: 17-10-2011, 18:10:08 »
In the alpha it worked like this: the squad leader can spawn on everyone BUT, the squad members could only spawn on the squad leader. I think it's a better system than derp spawning of BC2.

Offline Beaufort

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1644 on: 17-10-2011, 18:10:59 »
Now THAT is cool.

Offline LuckyOne

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1645 on: 17-10-2011, 18:10:57 »
Yes, the derp spawning is simpler and more effective in keeping the squad together, but it doesn't mean it promotes proper teamplay... It also has flaws (such as enemies popping up in the middle of a firefight). On the other hand the BF 2 SL spawn when used in a lame way (hiding in a hard to reach position) is bad too... BUT you can have those epic moments where a whole squad is defending a specific house or a point and suddenly the SL is shot dead. Then everybody realizes that their position is probably going to be overrun and either fight to the last man or try to retreat to fight another day (sometimes the SL switch tactic is used which is kinda similar to that BF 3 feature except that the guy has to actually leave the squad).

In the end neither system is perfect, one provides constant squad action, the other one provides that interesting situations when a squad gets cut off and eliminated just by killing the most important guy in the squad. I kinda like the way that RO 2 uses (although it provides no feedback when spawn is restricted), you can spawn on SL but you always spawn a bit back from his position, thus simulating reinforcements that actually arrive (not pop out of thin air next to the SL). Maybe adding this feature to the current derp spawning would make it a bit better.

^ The Alpha version sounds interesting too.
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1646 on: 17-10-2011, 20:10:00 »
so, aparantly the rumors were right, everytime you shot an unsupressed weapon, you get spotted in the enemy minimap as a red dot, sounds familiar?.
FarCry and CrySis (and Crysis Wars), amirite? Those had the AA searchlight attached to every sniper scope as well.

FC was notorious for having only the "assault" gamemode (in addition to deathmatch and team deathmatch) which in the end devolved into a team of suicide bombers running headfirst into defenders firing from the hip (due to the other mechanics involved as well). Someone would no doubt call it "making players work together" and "exciting experience" and "making it possible to form defensive lines" and so on, I would call it "repetitive" and "limited". It also had those kind of "spiraling" maps Natty suggested (although on a smaller scale - most servers were 16p with only a few running 24p or 32p), with supposedly impassable walls channeling everyone into a pretty little ghost train - that is, until you learned to glitch your way over those obstacles and began to rain death on unsuspecting enemies; most of the stock maps had a way, even after several updates. Also, the underslung grenade launchers were at first frowned upon in MP due to nobody using anything else if playing as a "grunt" (the other two classes were sniper and medic/engineer aka the suicide bomber), later they were removed serverside (even though they were horribly nerfed in the later updates).

CW was not better, now everyone had cheat codes activated (ie. strength/armour/stealth mode) even though it offered capture the flag. But even though the visible range was HUEG, all the flags were clumped tightly together. Had been playing FH2 for 2+ years when I tried that, did not bother (I bought Crysis Maximum Edition just to be able to play MechWarrior: Living Legends) further.

Offline NTH

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1647 on: 17-10-2011, 22:10:54 »
So BF3 has been leaked: LEAK

Seems Singleplayer is playable. Is it already gold then ? I thought there was some ironing out to do, or is that just for a day zero patch.


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Offline Natty

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1648 on: 17-10-2011, 23:10:43 »
sure Kelmola, but really - and with no intention for flaming or bitching here - isn't assaults more fun?

I mean... really.... Isn't attack-vs-defence game modes / map designs simply more fun to play?

My thesis is that when BF42 came out, people had been drilling and squeezing themselves through labyrinths/corridors and "boxes" for almost 10 years (Doom -> Quake -> HL -> CS -> MoH) so the openness was obviously much welcomed... but now? How fun really are these vast open spaces where you can circle around in cruise-control and just pretend there isn't a game going on over there?

I think the success of push in FH2, Rush mode in BC2 speaks for itself a bit here.. Having a clear target - a "mission" or "goal" leads to better game play.
    More focused fights
    Easier to expect where enemies come from, which boosts anticipation
    Better teamplay
    Experience that takes players from A to B to C on the map (scenery changes)
    Progession that "makes sense". Reach end = win[/li]

Im just saying... Having the 5-6 open flags and just "ok now fight" can often feel pointless and dead to me. I dont know what it is about the area Im fighting for that's so important. In progressive maps, you understand that you need to take A to reach B, to reach C, but in FFA maps, it's like A,B and C are equally worth, and therefor also equally worthless.
And if you analyze players, and your own playstyle, how often do you really, excersice these "freedoms" at all? Aren't you mostly slipping in to the natural stream of attacks-defenses anyway? that's my point about limiting off / sculpting out the best and most fun combat areas, then block off / delete the rest, and it can work just as nicely... Look at BF:Vietnams leveldesigns.. they did that quite nice in many maps actually. People never complained about BFV maps being too constricted, even though maps like the two HoChiMinh Trail maps, Landing Zone Albany and all the town maps were pretty limited.

I personally much rather play a game with focus and clear objectives, even if it sometimes rob me off my birth-given "freedom", than to have an unfocused random lol-game where anyone at any moment can just decide to stop caring about the game and do some circus drive with a jeep or hop around flags with no purpose. That stuff is just getting old.

Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1649 on: 17-10-2011, 23:10:16 »
So BF3 has been leaked: LEAK
Seems Singleplayer is playable. Is it already gold then ? I thought there was some ironing out to do, or is that just for a day zero patch.

lol what do you think?! The beta we played was said to have been behind by one Month. So not really a lot of time to fix stuff. ^^ This and with the list of things that they promise to send in after the release, day one to day 20 patches are already assured. ^^
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