Author Topic: Battlefield 3  (Read 216984 times)

Offline Sir Apple

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 595
  • game artist
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1560 on: 13-10-2011, 21:10:11 »
Tell me, Apple, what do you think about having to unlock flares for jets and co-ax mg for tanks?

Well I don't fly or tank much so it doesn't bother me, but with that biased statement aside...

The only issue I'd see is, if someone new is to the game, he won't have certain aspects e.g coax mg, while veteran players will. But having a teammate in tank (which I loved being the gunner in a tank, the few times I did it), or focusing more on vehicle combat rather then direct infantry combat would be an easy way to level up. I don't think that the developers would have done without testing the sensibility of it, at least to some degree.

Similar for the flares for jets. But these are small aspects to a jet or a tank. They are small assistance's to piloting a jet or driving a tank, I can't see them making or breaking the enjoyment of either.

Offline Yustax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.020
  • German bias forevah!
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1561 on: 13-10-2011, 21:10:22 »
you are avoiding the question.
you think EA pay people money to make you, like their games?... lol... ease off on the hubris dude.. it doesnt matter if you dont like the game, or buy it.. millions of real battlefield fans will do it anyway, you sit and preach how bf42 had all the best features if you want, we others dont care, because we all know that BF3 has about 1,000 more features than that game...
you always come dragging with the same old mantra
    -mod tools
    -free dedicated servers
    -naval warfare
    -maps that are gigantic where you can lol around where you want
    -all weapons available to everyone (no unlocks)[/li]
there are probably more of these awesome "features" from bf42 you want, go ahead and list them again please... maybe it's time to make a cardboard box, sit at the edge of the highway and preach with a long beard, maybe someone will see you on their way to work. the end is near, isnt it?

[/quote]

Just wow...wow. I cant even express in words how much of lost are you. These are the games that introduced you to the series with all the great features. Now? You're being carried like sheep, accepting everything in the sense of "update" and the "new generation". You cant just accept what DICE is doing with their games...seriously. No mod tools in this game would mean dead to me, no commo rose same thing, no battle recorder, no proper squad leader, tons of useless unlocks and bad balanced gameplay. An that includes the tight circle flags.

What if we turn FH2 like that uh? How will the game play out for you?

Offline Thorondor123

  • God Emperor
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6.573
  • Lugbûrz-ûr!
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1562 on: 13-10-2011, 22:10:10 »
Over half of the FH2 maps have their flags closer to each other than those on Caspian Border. Get over it already. I bet you didn't even try it.
Let mortal heroes sing your fame

Offline Yustax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.020
  • German bias forevah!
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1563 on: 13-10-2011, 22:10:55 »
Over half of the FH2 maps have their flags closer to each other than those on Caspian Border. Get over it already. I bet you didn't even try it.

Some maps, mostly the infantry maps. And the big gigantic vehicle/infantry maps have proper flag placement and distance. Saw the new pics of the new BF3 maps? Same tight circle flag placement.

Offline Thorondor123

  • God Emperor
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6.573
  • Lugbûrz-ûr!
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1564 on: 13-10-2011, 22:10:09 »
Over half of the FH2 maps have their flags closer to each other than those on Caspian Border. Get over it already. I bet you didn't even try it.

Some maps, mostly the infantry maps. And the big gigantic vehicle/infantry maps have proper flag placement and distance. Saw the new pics of the new BF3 maps? Same tight circle flag placement.
I saw the pic posted in this thread, and none of them showed any kind of flag placement.
Let mortal heroes sing your fame

Offline Musti

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.734
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1565 on: 13-10-2011, 22:10:34 »
I like how you guys argue about it.You know its not like its the only game out there? There are tons of FPSs. There's very good and FREE Team Fortress 2, and  this weird thing called Forgotten hope 2(whatever that is).
Just accept it, BF3 will be the way it will be.I think its not that good. Lack of proper squads, battle log and separating everything puts me away from it, if DICE won't fix it. I will not buy it, simple.There's no point in whining about it on forums, cause they won't change it.
Bf3 is not a "revolution". in 2 years we will have Bf4 and that also is going to be "revolution", in another few years we will have Bf5 and thats also going to be "revolutionary game", pure marketing. Wanna play a good game? check RO2. Sooner or later there will be tons of mods for it. and it will be brilliant (I'm sure of it). And what is this crap about "millions of players"? you don't need "millions" all you need is a full server every evening, and even FH2 manages to do that."millions of players" are for fanboys to argue on the internet which game is bigger.

What there is left to do is hope for DICE to get sober and fix the game, If not, there's still chance someone will "yarrr" it. But what i REALLY hope for is that someone will finally grow some balls, and take on BF3 and MW3.Make a good game, with big maps and vehicles.

I mean, how hard can it be?
WARNING!
Assholes are closer than they appear!

Offline Kelmola

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.857
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1566 on: 13-10-2011, 23:10:35 »
Face the facts: BF3 and FH2 cater to two different crowds. What Natty says is probably true for the former. Most likely not true for the latter.

---begin rant
BF2 vanilla can has unlockz? I played that bunny-hopping supersoldier-fest all of five minutes before ragequitting and loading FH2, and never looked back.

Let's say: would any of you play IL-2 if you had to "unlock" turbocharger, methanol injection, cannons, rear view mirrors, everything? Sure as heck, at least I wouldn't. Well, the consolified travesty "IL-2 Birds of Prey" has a single-player "campaign" mode where you get more advanced planes as the war goes on, but even that still does not throw you right in the beginning into the middle of a full Geschwader of Me262's with most of your own gear disabled.

Now, getting bling-bling, not very advantageous but otherwise groovy equipment, virtual medals, getting to brag about your stats, that kind of "unlocks" I wholeheartedly approve. Getting something that gives you an unfair advantage? No.

If I play an online shooter with, I won't frakking want to lose because some aspie has sunk 1000+ hours into it and has mad gear, I want to lose because he has better skillz, it does not matter if he has sunk 1 or 10 or 1000 hours to acquire that skill. Funnily enough, both the above mentioned Counter-Strike (well, at least in the form I played it ages ago) and my other currently favourite online shooter (or mod) besides FH2, MechWarrior: Living Legends, have players start from scratch every time and earning their equipment through skill. Once they have proved their skill in the round, then they can get the mad gear to roflstomp everyone, which they deserve by then. (MWLL goes even further and does not allow you to retain any gear between maps!)

Right now, the "unlock" system(s) in COD and COD wannabes is about as fun as a MMO (which I avoid like plague) where level 80 grinders with all the best and exclusive items just wait to pounce on unsuspecting noobs, and that would be the entire content: no PvE, no dungeons, just that. At the very least any FPS trying a "persistent" system should have "tiers" (which MMO's reportedly have) - you would encounter players with similar level/gear/amount of perks/whatever.

Another example: I last played Elite about 20 years ago. Well, that game is strictly single-player, but it does have the "persistent stats" - your ship is intentionally crippled at the start and you must earn better equipment in RPG style. However, the enemies you are likely to encounter at the start are also very poorly equipped (unless you intentionally jump into an Anarchy system or glitch yourself into Witchspace to fight the Thargoids). In the present time, I found Oolite, an excellent remake. Now, while my skills were back after a few hours, my equipment was of course not. Fortunately, the other "players" (ie. AI-controlled ships) had not levelled up in the meanwhile and started out as poorly equipped - only skill mattered. However, if this had been a "persistent unlock" multiplayer game with no "tiers", everyone would have had military laser, military shield, energy bombs, and whatnot and pwn3d me to Riedquat and back.

---

I won't even try to start to argue about "design", ie. making every game and map a "ghost train" or "rail shooter". At least the rail shooters of the 80's & early 90's (Operation Wolf, Operation Thunderbolt, and the like) didn't even pretend that they would have offered freedom of movement. I think the middle ground in "design" where I would like to stand on is somewhere between CODification and "sandbox". But whenever someone mentions weasel words like "channeling" I get nerd RAEG. I am addicted to FH2, yes, but I would still like to have much more FREEDOM! in many of its maps. However, since I'm not fond of the strict role-playing aspects of PR, I will keep on fueling my FH2 addiction and daydream about the day when most of OOB areas are opened for tactical movement. But Lords of Kobol forbid if retarded CODifications like "coaxial MG is now an unlock" are ever introduced into FH2. (But by the power of Grayskull, even in that case, I won't ever get into RO/RO2: I'm not that desperate.)

---end rant

tl;dr: Please alert me when there is a mod for FH3 that unlocks EVERYTHING, removes "wanker panting" (thanks to a certain Finnish game journalist for this term) regeneration especially from vehicles, allows as many players as the engine will support (128 at least, maybe even more?) on a proper PC (unlike on memory-impaired consoles), actually gives useful ordnance to the jets, makes infantry die horribly when hit with a 30mm cannon, allows to run the game without starting Origin to launch a website from which to launch the game, etc.

Offline SiCaRiO

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.554
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1567 on: 13-10-2011, 23:10:19 »


bf3 command rose =3

Offline Nerdsturm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 590
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1568 on: 14-10-2011, 02:10:08 »
I don't like grinding. No one likes grinding, else it wouldn't be called grinding. Thus, I don't understand why companies continue to put so much grinding in games that have no need for it.

Granted, giving the player options to customize their loadouts is a fine idea, but you shouldn't have to play hours with a loadout you don't like just to get to the fun part. At the very least, start players with enough gear to fill all their perk/accessory slots so the fact they're at a disadvantage is at least a little less obvious. Its a huge pain to join a BFBC2 server as a new player, see practically every other person using magnum ammo, and realize you're not going to be able to compete on even ground until you slog through 20 hours of gameplay(which is far more than I ever put into most games).

I think its just some weird cognitive dissonance thing, people play for a long time because they want to be able to play the full game, and convince themselves along the way that their having fun just to explain why they're doing it. There isn't any sort of character development or specialization, like you'd see in an RPG, so there's absolutely no reason not to just have everything unlocked from the start. I don't think anyone actually enjoys the fact they have to start out with a handicap when they first start playing.

I probably won't be getting BF3 for other reasons, unless it gets mods, but this general unlock trends seems to have seeped into most FPSs now, and has gone completely over the top, to the point were even basic vehicle functions(seriously, there's a coaxial on the tank, I can see it, why can't I fire it?) are removed. I don't have time to play every game I like for 40 hours, and I feel like when I start one I have to just focus on getting unlocking basic functions and equipment just so I can have fun later. Needless to say, I just get bored and go back to playing games where I can enjoy myself.
« Last Edit: 14-10-2011, 02:10:42 by Nerdsturm »

Offline Moose

  • Banned
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.293
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1569 on: 14-10-2011, 03:10:28 »
I love grinding.....I played BF bc2 until I got all the unlocks then stopped. I love having to unlock things.

Offline Nerdsturm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 590
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1570 on: 14-10-2011, 04:10:12 »
But why? Lacking equipment when you start doesn't make the game more fun, I'm sure you'll agree. Why make a game less fun when a player first starts play, so it somehow makes it feel more fun in comparison later on or something?

I honestly don't see what it adds.

Offline Sir Apple

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 595
  • game artist
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1571 on: 14-10-2011, 05:10:04 »
Unlockable content attracts players, and keeps players coming back. Which equals a very nice player base. Gives players more to work for, and very commonly gives the sense of reward. Look at so many games now that do this. This may not be you, but its the truth for millions of gamers, it really is a method to the magic.

Unlockable content...face it, its the trend of the times  :)

Offline LHeureux

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.350
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1572 on: 14-10-2011, 06:10:56 »
If it's not as bad as WoT then all grinding is all right  ;D
Hey, huge ass .gif signatures are totally unnecessary and obnoxious. Not these anymore, thankyouverymany kkbyethx love you, all the homo. -Flippy

Offline Yustax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2.020
  • German bias forevah!
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1573 on: 14-10-2011, 06:10:50 »
Unlockable content attracts players, and keeps players coming back. Which equals a very nice player base. Gives players more to work for, and very commonly gives the sense of reward. Look at so many games now that do this. This may not be you, but its the truth for millions of gamers, it really is a method to the magic.

Unlockable content...face it, its the trend of the times  :)

Yes but in the case of BF3. It brings imbalance; with vehicles for example.

Offline cannonfodder

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1.228
    • View Profile
Re: Battlefield 3
« Reply #1574 on: 14-10-2011, 08:10:29 »
I also don´t like the whole "unlock" concept either.
I think shifts the players focus from caring about the current game and winning the map with his team to just an egocentric "I don´t care what´s happening around me, I just want work towards my pistol upgrade now.." attitude.
It´s not really helping to establish a good teamplay experience when many players around you are "farming" points to get the next unlock instead of properly attacking a flag with you :/

The simplest way to reduce this would be the additional requirement of teamwork points to access the higher level unlocks.

It wouldn't take long for people to start playing as a team once they realize they can't unlock the really good stuff unless they're in a squad, actively attacking/defending flags or supporting their teammates.


I get the impression DICE want people to play as a team, but if there's no reward for teamwork it's simply going to be a repeat of the online fuck-fest that is BF2.