Author Topic: Singleplayer pains  (Read 3555 times)

Offline djinn

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Singleplayer pains
« on: 24-09-2009, 07:09:56 »
Just a few notes for singleplayer that I hoped would see solution by the next release:

PZIII rammed into flag by bots and abondoned
1/ On Mersa matru's southern German base
2/ On Tobruk main tank base

Matilda rammed into 6Pdr by bots and abondoned
1/ El Alamein's middle base

Stuka
1/ Stuka flies into view of enemy troops and suicides by plunging into the ground for most maps
2/ Stuka COULD dive a bit like the Beaufighter while attacking, without plunging into the ground
3/ WOULD BE NICE if it also strafed infantry @ times, used its divehorn before a dive in same way as other planes use airbrakes, except before its attack, not after, quit dogfighting and focused on ground pounding

88 gun not as deadly
1/ Biots should not even get off the 88 once on. they should use it as a permanent defensewhen available... German bots will be deadly with it, allies will likely meet it destroyed in such case reducinig their camping it
2/ Bots don't see it as high a priority as it should be... they should dash for it, whenever its around
3/ Bots should thus use HE effectively against infantry and APs for tanks, with timed HEs for aircrafts

Other AT guns, AA, field arttillery
1/ Bots should also camp them and use them as static defenses

Repairable defenses
1/ I know the engineer had a CTD issue once, but once that's no longer the case, is it possible to have these back in like MP?

PZIII never used
1/ El Alamein cappable mid-base, German side


Mgs from older maps
1/ Bunker mgs and other mgs still not coded to be high priority like Normandy mgs
2/ Some Normandy mgs not used either, on PHL, bots don't use the first mg34 or the road mg @ the 2nd base, or the one in the barn, or the nest a bit infront of the farm - Bots don't even spawn in those areas...
3. Mgs on Tunis under used
4/ Bots with mg kit should realise their awesomeness even from long range as mgs are currently used only as close quarter defense or attack, and thus hardly used as suppression or cover fire

Italian grenade
1/ Never used

German AT bomb
1/ Not sure, is it now active?

Universal carrier
1/ Bots don't drive it well... they are sluggish with it and sometimes I just blow it up to prevent bots using it @ all

PzII
1/ Please make bots use it @ longer range to give it a remote chance of taking out an enemy tank

Close-in tank fighting
1/ If possible, bots should stand away and blast rather than close in within inches to destroy the enemy
2/ Bots should use tank mgs at further range to suppress if not hit

Mortars and artillery
1/ Any solutions?

Deployable British mg
1/ CTD issue

No flamethrower on map that most needs it
1/ Point du Hoc

No .30 cal in SP
1/ Basically that


More agressive bots
1/ Bots in North Africa compared to bots in Normandy

Bots following orders
1/ Bots don't stop on request of pickup
2/ Bots don't follow  'follow me'
3/ Bots are seem less likely than before to do a 'attack here' as an arbitrary move to a non-flag location, bots in Africa do.... eg. Mersa Matru

Bots run out of ammo?
1/ Not sure, but this might be quite an issue as bots don't EVER restock, maybe this shouldn't be the case


Stairway mapping
1/ It might a bit of a demand, but can bots use the churchs belfry and hence the stairway... same for all houses that can be entered...

Commander artillery
1/ Save for my being the commander, is this completely gone now?


Bots like Chey and trucks too much
1/ Self explained

thanks

just noted these prevailing issues, many of them right from 2.0 - thought I'd makr them official before they got left in the past maps for good



« Last Edit: 24-09-2009, 07:09:02 by djinn »

Offline CBCRonin

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #1 on: 24-09-2009, 08:09:30 »
-German bots abandon tanks halfway to closest flag (from German base) on El Alamein.

I think some of these may be map specific, besides the ones you have specifically mentioned are related to certain maps  ;).
-The PZII is used well by bots on Tobruk, but is used pretty ineffectively on other maps.

-The Stuka needs some work, as it is meant to simulate actual dive bombing..... unfortunetly the bots seem unable to pull out of the dive 90% of the time.

-The tank ramming of flag posts should be fairly easy to fix with some work on pathing.

-The bots never run out of ammo, They can even auto supply a tank once they enter one depleted of ammo. I think this one should stay, as bots will never figure out they need to resupply.

-Some bot squad members will follow your orders on some maps (Allied side on Luffite), but the commander's orders supersedes yours with bots. If you re-issue a command they will confirm or tell you to bugger off, but will then migrate towards the commander's target anyways. This is one I really hope there is a solution for, as long as processors don't take too big a hit.

Whether we will ever see bots responding to orders like "wait up, I need a ride!".... don't hold your breath.

-I think the bot commander supply and arty will probably make a return. It was definetly affected by the 1.5 patch.

-I believe the stair mapping will always be a problem for bots if they are too steep.



Offline Zoologic

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #2 on: 24-09-2009, 08:09:14 »
Well, about time i'm going to make something like this.

But 2.2 bots sure have a lot of improvements from 2.15. They're smarter, pop smokes to MG/Sniper/tank/gun positions if manned to prevent it from seeing them.

The Bren Carrier driving bots are quite annoying since the vehicle have super flexible suspension. It runs and brakes continuously making it look like a moving see-saw.

The American bots shouted "I need a grease monkey" all the time when in vehicle (both the driver and passengers), even though their bicycle aren't even scratched. The funny stuff is i found a choir of Sherman campers in Luettich shouting harmoniously "I need a grease monkey" which echoes.

Quote
Close-in tank fighting
1/ If possible, bots should stand away and blast rather than close in within inches to destroy the enemy
2/ Bots should use tank mgs at further range to suppress if not hit

Tanker bots will always miss when in long range, i was a passenger in tank driven bot once, he keeps shooting at an enemy tank at long distance, and they both keep missing each shot until Bazooka/PzSchrek troops arrived.

The engineer bots will run aggressively to the tank holding the AT mine without actually planting them. And when they reach the tank, doing nothing and then back off a bit of distance then kneel, waiting for... well i dunno.

Sharing some of my amazing FH2 SP experience:

Op Luettich is interesting, especially the Americans. The American bots will angry mob every attack points when ordered. In one game, 2 stolen Opel trucks full of bots, 1 half track, 2 M10 tank destroyers, and 1 Bicycle riding to Abhaye Blanche to overwhelm attackers (only 2 German bots flagging without manning the lafette). Once the farm is invaded, The bots boarded the trucks back and the company raced to the farm only to find that it is a Panther tank camping there and getting owned. Every time i play it, they will assemble various different motorpool, this particular is the biggest one (by numbers) and i'm impressed.

PDH and PHL German side bots love to throw grenades. It is pretty difficult to advance to the last flag because of this.

The best SP African maps is Giarabub, and the Italian bots is the most impressive, they are very aggressive and always smokes out MG positions. Too bad they don't throw bombs and man the AT guns.

Offline Natty

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #3 on: 24-09-2009, 09:09:13 »
Djinn please head over to the feedback forum and give your input in each map's respective threads.. so we can easier distribute the things over all mappers.  :)

btw the bots on PHL use the 88 pretty well, right?

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #4 on: 24-09-2009, 21:09:10 »
Djinn please head over to the feedback forum and give your input in each map's respective threads.. so we can easier distribute the things over all mappers.  :)

btw the bots on PHL use the 88 pretty well, right?

DId once... It was terrific! Then never again.... As is, bots seem to spawn too far off from the first three bases... First base, not at all - All defenses useless... second base, maybe a FEW random shots from the distance, 88 base... Not anywhere near the 88 but on the bridge... Don't even know how that 88 flash0in-the-pan occured... but I sure am glad about the mg gunner, although I think he can be alot more accurate than currently is... Someone DL the dday landing beach by that japanese fella... Those mgs are murder.... !

Hear you on the tanks... but don't under-estimate tank fire in motion... they are more accurate than humans even with bumbs on the road. I sure just wish they'd hold off at range... Maybe even move around a set radius, tank-dependent, with smaller or lighter tanks having a smaller radius... so that they can use their speed to avoid hits from bigger tanks while firing @ functional range

ALL tanks also screw up on Mersa Matru coming from the ridge towards the railway. About half abandon their tanks right in view and instantly die!


Sure wish, PDH could be done in such a way that bots can use the LCAs... I described this idea a short time before the reliease cuz I knew what to expect...

If that is true about Stuka's I'm impressed... Just wish they'd fly alot higher then so they can do their 90 degree or 80 degree dive properly and get out in time.. beats 'pooping' bombs while flying in a stragiht line, as is the best scenario (in El Al)


Ok, Natty will surely do feedback in all maps for AI... Even some ideas for Mareth which, for NA has no known AI done... just see this as a metling pot thread for all with AI-ills to share and discuss - Don't think the feedback thread will afford that much back-and-forth


Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #5 on: 02-10-2009, 07:10:01 »
Ok, here's another SP pain that just came to me... vehicles in SP not lasting half as long after being destroyed as they will in MP

Please, please make destroyed vehicles stay on the field as long in singleplayer and COOP as they do in multiplayer... And if possible, take out the damage they do to infantry on re-exploding - It really is a valuable temporary protection
which is completely lost in SP and becoems a death trap..

Got killed by a destroyed friendly tank blowing up once... Really shouldn't happen since that 2nd explosion is simply to clear the field and clear the RAM

« Last Edit: 02-10-2009, 07:10:33 by djinn »

Offline hslan.totaler_humbug

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #6 on: 03-10-2009, 11:10:42 »
Well, the new Sp-Dev Winterhilf just came very close before the release to the team. So he was not able to improve too much. Just give him some time.
We need to be able, to throw Thermos out of Spotterplanes.

Offline Flippy Warbear

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #7 on: 03-10-2009, 11:10:39 »
Like totaler_humbug said, give Winterhilf some time and you can expect more AI support for more maps and vehicles aswell as bug fixes and all sorts. Keep giving feedback, its highly important and appreciated as long as it is in proper form and not in a trollish flame (not meaning that any of you in this thread has been like that, quite the opposite, thank you for that!).

Winterhilf joined very late to the 2.2 process and he simply didnt have enough time, but what we have now with AI is incredible considering that there was almost no time at all to make these things. He worked amazingly well in a very short period of time under the pressure and results are IMHO more than satisfying for such conditions.

Offline Torenico

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #8 on: 04-10-2009, 03:10:59 »
I still enjoy SP alot, i mean, i know it is not finished but damn, i had a couple of laughs and actually, played for 2 Hours with SP.



Offline Stonechater

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #9 on: 04-10-2009, 20:10:38 »
I still enjoy SP alot, i mean, i know it is not finished but damn, i had a couple of laughs and actually, played for 2 Hours with SP.



Without a single crash? How many bots you use?

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #10 on: 04-10-2009, 22:10:13 »
You can play 2.2 specific map without a CTD easy... save for Goodwood. I tend to play in such a way that I delay the spawn of Shermans @ the isolated base in the middle cuz I know once they start spawning CTD is a few secs away

Play PDH, Giarabub or PHL - No CTD whatsoever... I even included a few FH2SP maps like Fall of Tobruk, Sidi Rezeigh, Alam Halfa and one or two others.... It was nice to have the tanks using HE all of sudden, AA less accurate, distance gunfire and mgs suddenly being more active...

Its the classic SP maps that suffer, such as supercharge. And the AI is still 2.15 with Stukas dive-bom... just diving actually head-first, nose down, vertical...SPLAT!


Ah, I can forgive 2.2s CTDs easy, it breathes fresh life into FH2... not least of which is its AI

Offline naoko

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #11 on: 13-10-2009, 19:10:39 »
i think bots FH2.2 is more weak than bots FH2.15.
when i'm (axis) meet to gather whit bot enemy(Ally) in close radius, we can say "hi" each other whitout fire fight. FH2.2 bots is to kind LOL ;D

« Last Edit: 13-10-2009, 20:10:20 by naoko »

Offline djinn

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #12 on: 13-10-2009, 20:10:39 »
Don't know if I agree with you there, chief... That has been there since 2.0 - And it happens rarely... Try Luttich and try and say hello to one of those guys with their semi-autos... Or PDH, Or PHL for that matter? What map EXACTLY ARE you getting the hi-hi on, cuz 2.2 specific maps don't see such issues @ all

In fact, these bots shoot from further way off especially in PDH and PHL

Offline cannonfodder

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #13 on: 14-10-2009, 11:10:42 »
i think bots FH2.2 is more weak than bots FH2.15.
when i'm (axis) meet to gather whit bot enemy(Ally) in close radius, we can say "hi" each other whitout fire fight. FH2.2 bots is to kind LOL ;D

What difficulty setting is that on?

On PHL, most of the time I don't even see where the shot that kills me comes from... :P

Offline naoko

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Re: Singleplayer pains
« Reply #14 on: 15-10-2009, 17:10:33 »
map name is goodwood. In far radius bots is good or if bot use some kind machine gun or tank, always try to kill me, but close radius is bad.
maybe like djinn say, goodwood map still have bug.