Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Announcements => Developer Blogs => Topic started by: Ts4EVER on 01-07-2017, 15:07:28

Title: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 01-07-2017, 15:07:28
In this dev blog I will post some diagrams showing the weapon loadouts of infantry units that appear in FH2, starting with the Americans. These are based both on official tables of equipment, as well as variations known to have been used in the field.

US Army Rifle Platoons (Normal Infantry)

(http://i.imgur.com/f4QIgLN.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/RMHsNtw.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/eXGcrtK.png)

US Army Parachute Rifle Platoons

(http://i.imgur.com/wokGIJa.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/qtTwNnI.png)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 01-07-2017, 18:07:34
This is cool. I saw your post in the PR forums and wanted to know more. Do you have the source for the official tables or is it in a book?

There's a lot of interesting stuff that I have questions about like when the Grease Gun started seeing action or why a Parachute Platoon would prefer a Browning over a (seemingly more portable) BAR.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 01-07-2017, 20:07:36
My guess is they wanted to concentrate support weapons like mortars and medium machine guns at the squad level for paratroopers, in case they got scattered.
Regarding the Grease Gun: It was the replacement for the Thompson, but it never fully replaced it. I just put it in the later ones for some variety.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 05-07-2017, 00:07:13
Some more American loadouts, this time Armored Infantry (meaning the guys in the halftracks) and Rangers.

(http://i.imgur.com/thNci4W.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/y7rZOMf.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/zuH6KaO.png)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 09-07-2017, 11:07:47
Next up, the British. Their organizations were also used by other members of the Commonwealth, as well as occupied nation's expeditionary forces that were equipped by them, like the French in North Africa or the Poles. The terminology is a bit different from the Americans.

Normal rifle infantry:

(http://i.imgur.com/sX6kXwY.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/0tGg7OI.png)

Motor rifles, meaning the infantry supporting tanks:

(http://i.imgur.com/K1eO9pW.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/JouuiJS.png)

And last but not least, some more flashy "special forces" you can find on some FH2 maps:

(http://i.imgur.com/iztZgWh.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/hL20MO1.png)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 09-07-2017, 18:07:51
That's insane just how many Sten guns an air landing platoon would carry.

also, the rifle platoons don't have any Boys rifles. Would that be dedicated to a totally different platoon?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 09-07-2017, 18:07:39
From what I can gather a normal rifle platoon had them, but the African version ditched them due to their uselessness.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: GeoPat on 09-07-2017, 20:07:23
i don't think it is that surprising that elite troops, late in the war, would choose any available select-fire guns over obsolete bolt action rifles.  Remember, most armies rushed to replace those with automatic assault rifles when the war ended.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 10-07-2017, 19:07:46
i don't think it is that surprising that elite troops, late in the war, would choose any available select-fire guns over obsolete bolt action rifles.  Remember, most armies rushed to replace those with automatic assault rifles when the war ended.

Yea but the Sten still shoots a 9mm. I'd feel a little underpowered going to battle with that over a heavier round.

Maybe it was mission specific? Paratroopers would probably get first choice and could still go on a mission with more Enfields if needed. If they're actually paradropping in, they're probably chose the Sten or keep their loadout less cumbersome. But if they didn't need to paradrop they had a bit more freedom to chose.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 10-07-2017, 19:07:04
As it says on the pic, they had a pool of 300 Sten guns.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: FHMax3 on 11-07-2017, 10:07:52
This blog is lovely. And I made a comeback
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 11-07-2017, 10:07:02
Next up: The Red Army

Their TOEs are kinda hard to find, especially for smaller units like scouts, tank riders etc, so it is pretty general.

(http://i.imgur.com/trtk4ze.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/DeDbo5R.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/Y3cLjMe.png)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Dancho on 12-07-2017, 01:07:57
Next time when I play FH2 with friends, I'll force them all to carry "Papashas". Imagine a whole squad with PPSH and Shpagins... :D
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: MajorMajor on 12-07-2017, 14:07:04
Interesting posts so far. How different would the Red Army 1941 Rilfe Platoon loadout be from its 1942 counterpart?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 12-07-2017, 17:07:32
Fewer smgs, there was a shortage of lmgs, so some squads may have none. 4th squad might not have existed. Squad Leaders usually had SVT40s.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 13-07-2017, 17:07:19
Next up: Germany, at first the normal leg infantry. These were the majority of German forces, but in FH2 most maps show mechanised forces, because players like tanks and apcs.

(http://i.imgur.com/6Xeansl.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/rjBJfDD.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/V3KGUCe.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/1IHBdt5.png)

Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: jan_kurator on 13-07-2017, 19:07:27
Seeing a map with germans having StGs only would be cool  ;)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: FHMax3 on 13-07-2017, 19:07:44
I agree with Jan here.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 13-07-2017, 19:07:30
Note that only two thirds of the infantry platoons in a division were equipped as Sturm Platoons.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 14-07-2017, 04:07:22
What would the rank be of a British platoon commander?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: VonMudra on 14-07-2017, 05:07:06
Lieutenant, with Corporals commanding each section.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: McCloskey on 14-07-2017, 10:07:38
What did sergeants do?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 14-07-2017, 15:07:05
In my pictures, the guy below the platoon leader in the Platoon HQ is the sergeant.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: FHMax3 on 14-07-2017, 16:07:17
What is the maximum rank player model we have ingame?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 14-07-2017, 18:07:23
I think the British squad leaders ingame are sergeants.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 15-07-2017, 13:07:24
And let's go on with German motorized infantry, which in 1944 also includes Fallschirmjägers.

(http://i.imgur.com/tTL1gNs.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/2jTgl4j.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/2MCB2D3.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/OmBuVJq.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/C3gQ2N9.png)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 17-07-2017, 23:07:42
And finally the (massively overrepresented) German armored infantry.

(http://i.imgur.com/eYaO75E.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/uQpWwzc.png)
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 18-07-2017, 18:07:11
So how were Panzerfausts doled out? In photos of late-war Germans or Volksturm, it almost looks like everybody is lugging one. Were they issued to the HQ and given out as needed?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: FHMax3 on 19-07-2017, 09:07:06
There were so much of them, I think they were given to every 3rd Volksturm soldier.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-07-2017, 16:07:07
They do not show up in these documents because they count as ammunition, not a weapon. So basically, they gave out as many as they had and as many as could be carried.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 20-07-2017, 18:07:21
They do not show up in these documents because they count as ammunition, not a weapon. So basically, they gave out as many as they had and as many as could be carried.

Thanks. These are very intersting posts. It makes me realize how much media has over-representented submachine-guns and other automatic weapons in WW2. It also usually depicts squads five guys and a sergeant which looks like is not the case at all.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: VonMudra on 30-07-2017, 02:07:28
Automatic weapons just weren't a priority for a lot of nations, the US and Britain especially focused on doctrines based around aimed rifle fire, with any automatic weapons basically just being in support of that fire.  The Russians started with that, but eventually came around to the submachine gun doctrine, which eventually translated into the AK47.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 02-08-2017, 02:08:45
An additional note regarding the Fallschirmjäger loadout:
I recently bought the Osprey Book about the St. Lo Campaign. It has well known picture of the Fallschirmjäger aiming an FG42, with this caption:

"A paratrooper armed with one of the rare FG 42 automatic rifles with its distinctive side magazine. These were built in very small numbers, around 7,000, and it probably identifies him as serving in one of the Sturmtruppen of Fallschirm-Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12, the corps-level reconnaissance battalion of II Fallschirmjäger-Korps that was equipped with this weapon."

If this is true, it would indicate that the Germans used the FG42 in a similar fashion to the StG44 later, meaning they concentrated them in certain assault units.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: VonMudra on 02-08-2017, 06:08:19
The thing is, while there were only roughly 7,000 FG42's produced, there were only ~240,000 FJ to ever serve in WW2.  Given that the guns didn't start getting into the units until 1943, that means that there was one FG42 to every 34 FJ.  But given that plenty of the original FJ were gone by 1943, and that plenty more were supply/pak/other non-infantry jobs, one FG42 per squad would be a realistic figure.  That also means that they could have centered them into Sturmtruppen, or spread them around like an extra BAR-kinda thing.

Basically, sure it was a rare gun overall, but since it was only issued to the FJ, and the FJ were only ever a small number of active troops, it was still about as common as the BAR or Bren was for Allied infantry.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 02-08-2017, 16:08:48
I looked into it more, and according to the book "Dying for St. Lo" every recon company formed one assault group, which was armed with a Puppchen rocket launcher, 3 FG42s (1 scoped) and a flamethrower. Probably the crewmen had K98ks and the squad leader a submachinegun.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Dancho on 02-08-2017, 21:08:57
What's this? Looks like G43 with ZF scope. Leak? Conspiracy much?
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 02-08-2017, 21:08:58
That is just the G43 ZF ingame icon...
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Dancho on 03-08-2017, 00:08:47
Are you sure? Appearantly there are 2 icons which might mean 2 weapons. Why else would be another icon there.

Edit: I just read Ts4EVER's reply again. Why do you say "it's just the ingame G43 ZF's icon" when we don't have the weapon in the official release yet. ;D
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: GeoPat on 03-08-2017, 01:08:54
yep.  No one would ever make a tiny jpg if they didn't have a working model of a weapon ready to release.
Title: Re: [Historical Background] Weapon Loadouts
Post by: Ts4EVER on 03-08-2017, 07:08:49
It looks different because scoped weapons don't have a spawn menu icon, so I had to use the weapon selection icon and delete the white border around it. Most older weapon selection icons also have no magazine and might have been rendered differently. It is just the normal scoped G43.

Edit: Actually, I know what you mean now. That is just an editing mistake, I put the scoped G43 over the K98k ZF icon.