# Forgotten Hope Public Forum

## Forgotten Hope 2 => Singleplayer and Coop => Topic started by: Zoologic on 26-10-2010, 19:10:38

Title: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 26-10-2010, 19:10:38
Based on CF's post on other thread, i think this topic deserves its own thread.

The solution to the other major drama (stoopid CO) has already been pointed out. I haven't had time to try it yet, so I can't confirm it, but hopefully I'll have time this weekend. The solution? ESAI. Why? To quote it's creator:
Quote
ESAI is Strategic AI code. It cannot alleviate the basic limitations of BF2 bots, some of which were enumerated by SP4Me. It works at the AI Commander level, controlling which Flags are attacked, when they are attacked, and with what level of resources.

The Vanilla BF2 Commander only has one basic strategy to work with 99% of the time - just a basic attack strategy. ESAI gives the AI commander more options. At the ESAI core there are sets of strategies for when a team is behind on flags, when the number of flags are even, and for when a team is ahead on flags.
- http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15109&st=0

I just couldn't express my happiness. This modification on AI files really improve the bot behavior a lot!

Tried this on Alam Halfa, the map known to be boring for SP, until recently in 2.3, where the bot finally learned how to drive vehicles. But we all seem to experience the same thing: that the attacking German bots wouldn't likely went to the next flag or have their offensive stuck at the first flags. But this is not the case here, the Germans always at some point, managed to stop their bleed and continue to harass the 3rd line! So it was a spectacular achievement in such humanly designed map.

The bot actually defended its position, manned the MG and emplacement seriously, for the first time of FH2 SP history. You won't need special SP codes to make them stay, but this time, they lie there waiting to strike back the panzer waves (yeah, they come in waves indeed, that is quite fascinating as well).

This is my experience so far. In Ramelle, the German bots managed to grey out several flags after the Outskirts, quite an improvement from the previous one.

ESAI could potentially removes some of notorious commander order spam in some maps, but i haven't confirm this. At least in Alam Halfa, it is resolved.

Just follow the link and download Void's ESAI, follow his instruction, install specific strategies he provided in the pack into your specific FH2 map, and voila! So far only 4 major strategies provided and 5 combinations of them:

AA = Air Attack (still buggy)
FCA = focusedCounterAttack
PF = pushForward
PB = protectBase

I use FCAPFPB for Alam Halfa, in order for the German bots to PF, and Brits to PB (failed so far, since no command issued at the beginning, so it really depended on where the bots spawned), and the British to FCA when they are driven out. But these plays are mixed, depending on the situation. The German repeatedly camp their base on 1st line when being counter-attacked from the 2nd line, or vice versa.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 26-10-2010, 20:10:10
Remick, Remick! Lookie! Lookie!!

Thanks cF, thank zM. Will check this out when I can. Seems like the magic bullet. We could certainly use that....

I wonder though, does it possibly allow the bot commander to defend a weak zone before enemy bots get within its cap area?

and, can bots be made to make a tactical retreat rather than bleeding away in trying to recap a flag? Then maybe countering with all their might?

Now that would make me do the jig
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Remick04 on 27-10-2010, 02:10:30
Sounds promising ;D Give it the full thorough testing, if no problems are found I'll see what I can do about adding it. So far my experience with Strategies.ai files they cause increase in comander spam. Speaking of which the comander spam on lebisey is caused by mount olympus' strategies.ai file getting mixed in. deleting it will solve that problem.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: :| Hi on 27-10-2010, 03:10:46
-starts worshipping-
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 27-10-2010, 07:10:05
...Speaking of which the comander spam on lebisey is caused by mount olympus' strategies.ai file getting mixed in. deleting it will solve that problem.

Delete it, but replace with what?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: cannonfodder on 27-10-2010, 10:10:20
Nothing...I took it out before I uploaded the fixed server.zips, and I've played it since and it works ok.

The only drawback I can forsee with ESAI, is the amount of time it'll take to add the files to every level, not to mention the time spent fiddling around with the strategies.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 27-10-2010, 19:10:07
The most basic improvement with this enhancement, adding to that, my leftover knowledge in programming, i could foresee that this only improves the bot's coordination by allowing them to be aware of the situation.

"Aggression"
This is the most basic thing, and we see this value tweaked based on pre-set conditions. To be honest, we really see a "thinking" bot as a whole. Individually, they are quite dumb magic shooter. But as a whole, they really keep their act together.

"Responsiveness"
Some of the ESAI codes involves the tweaks in bots respond time and its urgency in responding to the situation.
Try to be the commander sometime. Before this, i notice that the bots responded slowly to commands, some are even unresponsive. But responsiveness, based on my estimation, are 80% caused by navmeshes rather than AI codes. So even though i see improvement on my tested maps, but this doesn't instantly credits to the ESAI.

"Situation Awareness"
This is the main part of the enhancement. By making the bots understand that they have less flags than the opponent, they will know what to do. In some strategy sets, they will either try to counter attack (maintain flag balance, reduced aggressiveness), or just blindly push forward (attack to the last flag).

I wonder though, does it possibly allow the bot commander to defend a weak zone before enemy bots get within its cap area?

It really depends on where the bot spawned, as long as they have no order issued or instructed to defend the position.

At least the bots now man static guns, MG position, sit and wait along the defense lines. They really set up some "basic n00bish" defense. It is an improvement, but you really can't get the dynamics of human gameplay style. They don't respond to the flow of the battle, they simply receive orders and carry it to their death.

Quote
and, can bots be made to make a tactical retreat rather than bleeding away in trying to recap a flag? Then maybe countering with all their might?

Now this is can be done in some kind of a "save tickets" situation or any other conditioning you can think of. Because without a logic (if-then conditioning) to determine the situation, we cannot make the bot do the corresponding action. They just don't do unorthodox warfare tactics like humans do (ambushing, traps, coordinated retreats), which is all done using surprise element and the timing sometimes defy logic (which is why it is a "surprise"). Their decision making is determined by sets of logic, which made into several strategy sets made by Void.

One of the most basic example of the weakness is that, we at this point, still cannot make the bots to choose on which flag to attack other than "enemy" or "neutral". Which is then, depends on how we "neighbour" (link) the flags when we navmesh the map. They can't really choose to concentrate attack on certain points in a map. But then, they will assign each attack order per squad (divide manpower) if we choose to link all of them or it could be the otherwise if we artificially create a chokepoint by neighboring all of the flags into single flag as a chokepoint.

For example, in Totalize, we can't make them choose to attack Flak Batteries first than factory. What will they do is that, they will divide attack instructions per squads if we link the attack points from the main base to both.

Quote
Now that would make me do the jig

It is the ultimate goal of every AI developer. No that it is impossible or to sound negative, but I think you are really expecting too much from a 2006 AI engine.

My priority is, especially in FH2, to at least make the bots respond to our command. Just like the vanilla BF2 bots do.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 29-10-2010, 18:10:23
So far Ramelle has been a great burden. The game always stuck at the Germans being raped at Outskirts by numerous bots spawning as Zooks and engineers. The German infantries covering the vehicles are either TKed by their clumsy motorist teammate or get lost in the firefights.

This ESAI is a major help in almost every other map except bionic design one like Giarabub, Ramelle, and Mareth, where distance and complexity hinders true firefight. Only Mesra Matruh sees more balanced and smarter firefights.

BF2 bots are really predictable and the game results are mostly statistical, compared to BF1942, where situations changed in each game.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 30-10-2010, 08:10:33
Hmmm, would you say ESAI is therefore not a better prospect cuz there are some annoying bugs I realize about the current system.

The most major being a problem with determining balancing between going back for tanks at the main base and keeping a decent assault on flags. In some maps, the bots completely leave their vehicles at home only returning for the odd tank, which makes no difference against heavy defenses.

In a multiple pronged attack, its touch-and-go to see which they would focus on, inspite of how heavy some position's defenses are

I think BF42 was only less statistical because bots were uber-stupid there. BF2 have better response time and sure its simplistic AI, but it works. BF42 bots didn't even respond to being fired at if they were already engaged. BF2 bots seem to 'remember' you and when they're done with their primary engagement, they find you.

You know you can even do a suppression/flank attack on enemy units by sustaining fire on them from one position while your squad, or another squad flanks it and takes it... All you need to is stand somewhere else and engage it while the bots move along the beaten path - Just keep up more fire than they do.

There is a reason I keep pressing for more out of bots. Simple as they may be, they work well in statistical terms: What gun they use, what vehicle they drive, and a bit of luck - Safe for fancy stuff like taking cover, they are golden imo.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 30-10-2010, 09:10:49
ESAI is actually wonderful enhancements that works really well in most of the maps and improved the game substantially. So, I would rather point it out on map designs literary.

I tried Gazala, Mareth Line, Ramelle, and Giarabub, i would call this map perfectly "bionic" in its design, meaning that the map doesn't do really well with even theoretically smartest bots. Map-design maps, "bionic" means that this map is full of human-made fortifications, designed to fend off foolhardy offensive methods, direct attack, and mass assault. It requires human-like systematic thinking to go through the foliage, traps, and fortifications.

German bots in Gazala for example, tend to prefer attacking on tanks, which prevents them from efficiently capping flags. Because minefields and fences surround most of the flags. Mareth is simply a case of "nearest reinforcement distance", it doesn't really matter if the allied got numerous tanks, they can be pwn3d rather easily by guns and recently, bombers that become too effective. In Giarabub, the Australian bots are pretty much exposed during their attack, and could not sweep through the Italian defense because of the narrow paths and flanks that the fortification creates.

We really need specialized bots for these "bionic maps". I haven't tried Mesra Matruh, but this would more likely result in the same manner. Humans tend to be better when they play as aggressors, while computers are mostly good as defenders. So statistically, attacking bots will always lose all of the time. So in Giarabub, Australia will lose; Mareth British is the loser; Ramelle and Gazala, it is the Germans. In addition, this is not always true with other "attack/push maps", because these other maps are less bionic.

Surprisingly, city fights, CQBs, are not that "bionic", bots do well in moving from cover to cover, clearing houses from human players, navigating along narrow paths, etc.

So yeah, ESAI won't help that much in "bionic maps", you'll only see more determined attacks there.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 30-10-2010, 09:10:14
Not a problem. There may also be the issue of spawning. I noted that in villers, a corner building that spawned German infantry became a problem as they were stuck up there but in perfect position to defend.

I think ESAI would be the ultimate basic logic system for commander AI after which time, tricks like  using a few bots stuck in building and other such would be the next step.

So whats the next step with ESAI?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 31-10-2010, 00:10:10
Hi all, just found this forum. I'm the same Void from BFSP that wrote ESAI.

I'd like to point out that ESAI was created to replace the Vanilla BF2 Default strategies. It tries to be an improvement in general for the majority of SP maps out there. Map based custom strategies are always more effective.

In ESAI, overall patterns of bot spawning can be further tweaked by adding certain Object Type Flags to Strategic Areas in the file strategicareas.ai .

I'd also like to address something I read above, about ordering bots to cap certain flags under certain conditions. It was claimed this cannot be done. Not true! At a minimum of complexity, control points can be grouped into 10 "classes": Center,North,South,East,West,Flank,Route,Bridge,Remote,and Base. Different attack strategies can target one or more of any of these types.

If someone wants to give me a challenge, suggest a FH2 SP map that needs custom Strategic AI, and I will see what I can come up with.

The next step with ESAI is to find a mod interested in using it,people to test it, and so have a reason to keep developing it.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 31-10-2010, 00:10:32
You are in the right place :-)
So glad to meet the author in person. Big fan :-D

Ready to test, just say the word.  We already show great interest in this

Anyone want to nominate a tough map? Man wants a challenge :-)

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Torenico on 31-10-2010, 02:10:30
I would go for Mareth Line, awesome map with excellent vehicles and stuff.

See i really dont understand how ESAI work, my SP Life died in FH.7 but this could bring it back?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 31-10-2010, 02:10:41
I'll see what I can do with Mareth Line, if someone cares to point out the improvements that it needs as well as the game play goals in terms of strategy.

I have not played much FH2, and am unfamiliar with the maps. I have tinkered around modding inside of older versions.

I'm currently doing a fresh install of 2.3. I've downloaded all the patches in the stickies here, but am confused. Is there a true FH2 SP minimod I need to download also?

I just want to be running the same mod version as you guys. Someone please clarify about that, and give me the rundown on Mareth Line.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 31-10-2010, 06:10:46
Hi Void, glad to see you here.

ESAI has been a very great help to all of us here. This thread's first page http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=6539.0 are all updates and modifications you need for SP.

Mareth Line is currently like this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/Mareth64SPexplained.jpg)

How they play:

There are only two bridges connecting the "ridge" between the British and German positions of Toujane and Mareth (connected by the yellow lines).

The neutral flags of Matmata and Command bunker, is meant to give equal start for both team, so no one is bleeding from the start. Yet the Germans, although slow, will eventually capture both, causing the British to bleed tickets. While the British are unable to push through the first two posts.

Only Mareth will see numerous change hands during the battle, Toujane is relatively stable, it rarely switch sides from one's hand.

Junkers Ju-87B2 Stuka dive-bombers really shows their power here. The British Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vb fighters are not of any assistance at all. Only 2 or 3 Stukas were shot down in aerial combat during the full 700 vs 700 ticket match.

Special conditions:

Germans and British got bombers and fighters.

Germans and British got tanks, with the British in far superior numbers and of better quality and firepower.
Germans got at least 2 tank destroyers (open top cannon-carrying tracked vehicles) which dies easily and a couple of light tanks (tougher, but somewhat effective cannon). The British got tons of armor, fast moving light tanks with upgraded gun (Crusader Mk.III), medium tank with big punch (Sherman II). Both will receive numerous means of transport (trucks, half-tracks, jeeps, etc).

The city of Toujane is full of wreckage, roadblocks, gates, fences, making bots difficult to navigate through.

The road to Command bunker and Matmata are naturally fortified by ridges and canyons, except venturing infantries-on-foot, vehicles have to drive through the circling road, making them perfect targets for bombers.

Matmata is also tricky to navigate, but they are of smaller scale.

In later stages, if the German are in disadvantage (bleed tickets), they will receive Tiger I tank in Matmata.

-end-

I could say navmesh and bot driving behavior could be the problem, as their attack are already paced using ESAI.

In real world, Mareth Line is General Erwin Rommel's last stand before retreating further to Tunis and get surrounded by US from the west and British from the east. So it should be quite overwhelming for the German defenders, while for the British, they should face a though challenge in overcoming the defensive positions.

I hope you would enjoy the map as all we do.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 31-10-2010, 08:10:23
Strategic considerations

Allies
Mareth is a 2-pronged attack on Mareth and Toujane for the allies to prevent showing their flank to enemy units firing from the other. The 2-pronge continues when either falls, with the ratio attacking the other retained, while the force that capped the flag, split between the 2 rear flags at either's rear. You'd note that Toujane is flanked  by Matmata and Rommel's bunker, while Mareth is flanked by Gabe and the Tebaga gap. A small fraction needs to hold the capped base however, only reuniting if the flank bases to its rear falls AND the other frontline base with it.

eg. the defending Brits at Toujane will only stop defending when Mareth also falls as well as Matmata and Rommel's bunker. Mareth will now be defended by this ratio with the 1/2 that took Mareth pushing on into its rear bases, and the other large ratio that capped the entire left flank moving to cap Gabe through the Tebaga gap. The reverse is also true if Mareth and Gabe fell completely.

Axis
The axis need to defend both Toujane and Mareth with equal forces while pulling armor from Matmata and Gabe to reinforce Toujane and Mareth respectively. However, Matmata is uncapped when the level starts, so the ratio that will bring tanks from there will need to move in to cap it first, as well as Rommel's bunker. The reinforcement for both Toujane and Mareth will be split between each of the 2 bases to its rear.
If either Toujane or Mareth falls, a counter-attack needs to be made, while the reinforcement ratio from its rear now dig into both rear bases. For Mareth, the 2 rear bases are Gabe and the Tebaga gap. Bots spawning at Gabe must spawn at both parts of it to exploit all vehicles across the town.

Capping Rommel's bunker is tricky since the only access to it is from Toujane. For this reason, the reinforcement size behind Toujane will be split into those moving from the Tebaga gap to cap Matmata and those moving from Toujane itself to cap Rommel's gap. Once done, that same ratio will then be coming off Matmata and the bunker to reinforce Toujane.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 31-10-2010, 08:10:02
I'll see what I can do with Mareth Line, if someone cares to point out the improvements that it needs as well as the game play goals in terms of strategy.

I have not played much FH2, and am unfamiliar with the maps. I have tinkered around modding inside of older versions.

I'm currently doing a fresh install of 2.3. I've downloaded all the patches in the stickies here, but am confused. Is there a true FH2 SP minimod I need to download also?

I just want to be running the same mod version as you guys. Someone please clarify about that, and give me the rundown on Mareth Line.

This is what you need to install
/Fogotten Hope 2.3
/Remick's fixes for Lebisey, Villers Bocage, Olympus and Point en Bessin
http://www.filefront.com/17377677/FH2.3_SPfixups_01.rar/
/Devilman's minimod fix to Purple Heart Lane
http://www.filefront.com/17392854/fh2.rar/

Also note, Lebisey confuses files with Olympus, so you need to delete its GameplayObjects.con file from its Server.ZIp/Gamemodes/COOP or SP3 file and replace it with one from Server.ZIp/Gamemodes/CQ
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 31-10-2010, 22:10:53
Wow, this map is a beast! This is a challenge,alright. I have to correct some severe SP issues before even worrying about the SAI code.

I've managed to get this map in the editor (more on that in a bit) and change the layout of some of the spawn points

I've fixed the Allied Airfield so that bots only spawn there if there is an airplane for them to fly. There is a human spawn down there as well. This alleviates the first issue of having a third of the allied invasion force wandering around the bottom of the map doing nothing useful.

The tanks at the British Motor Pool area are still a nightmare - the bots are just camping them after spawn for the most part. I propose to start with trying to add vehicle waypoints to get them moving, and if that doesn't work, spawn the British tanks closer to the main road in.

As soon as I can get those allied tanks moving, I'll be ready to start adapting ESAI and creating FH2 specific AI modules. Yeah, I'm planning a version of ESAI specifically for FH2. The FH2 version will live in \mods\fh2 instead of \mods\bf2.

Now to my Bf2 Editor problem: every time in the editor when the map is loaded up, it crashes whenever I click Render-->Ai-->Toggle Draw AI. I need to be able to see the navmesh if I am going to try adding waypoints for the Brit tanks.

I'm not using the included \Editor folder from the level. I made my own, and am using just the sp3-64 GPO and AI folder. For purposes of editing, I have everything moved to layer 1 (default).

Can someone link me to a tut on setting up the Editor for use with FH2? I've set it up the way I've done with every other mod I've tinkered with, but still get that crash on AI draw.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: kummitus on 31-10-2010, 22:10:37
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=1804.0

there's that fenring tutorials link what has the old tutorials for this mod, gotta dl it and extract it somewhere and just open the index.html and use it as any other webpage
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 01-11-2010, 01:11:02
Update:

I've moved some vehicle spawns around slightly, and finished editing the bot spawn points. Now that the motor pool isn't quite as stuck, I've started cooking up the SAI code.

I already did a test run with "standard" ESAI enabled, and the allies managed to advance as far as Matmata and Lower Gabes. Matmata was captured and held; Lower Gabes never was captured despite being covered by 4 British tanks at one point.

The AI for this map will be implemented in "ESAI FH2 Edition", which I am currently creating. I'm going to go ahead and write an expanded code base that I can reuse, so it may take a little while to get a testing package ready for Mareth Line. I'm working on things with enthusiasm though.

@Djinn:

I will try my best to implement the strategic considerations you posted, within the limits of BF2 and SAI scripting. BF2 bots are wired to attack more than defend, and trying to partition resources with the precision you request simply may not work out. I may, in the name of British progress, code some unconventional attack strategies. I will try first with an initial two pronged assault on Mareth and Toujan, but have other ideas in mind if that strategy fails.

@everyone:

Don't expect miracles. This map was not made with SP in mind, and most flags are natural bot-traps: they can get in, but don't navigate so well getting out to the next CP.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 01-11-2010, 02:11:26
Glad to hear. I actually tried that map today and they actually capped Gabes with one sherman. Help with the tiger and pzIV came from the air. It was matmata that we couldnt get to - Toujane

But tbh, this map is a helluva lot fun, bot-limitations n all.
LeFH18 even reaches rommel's bunker
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: cannonfodder on 01-11-2010, 10:11:18
Ok, I tried ESAI with Siege of Tobruk using the large FCAPFPB strategy (SP with 49 bots@max difficulty).

Before I "installed" it, I tried SoT to see how it played, and boy was I surprised...not only was it raining shells, but the CO wasn't being a complete dickhead! Still, the Germans only managed to cap one flag all round and they only held it for a couple of minutes.

After adding ESAI to it, there initially didn't seem to be much difference... as before, the Aussies weren't having much trouble holding the line, so I assumed I chose the wrong strategy size or maybe it just didn't work well with this map... :-\

About halfway through the round, I jumped onto the German team. It looked no different on their side of the fence, it still appeared they were going to fail miserably. So I decided to quit before it was over, just as soon as I took this screenshot of a problem which has always plagued this map:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/250546431edc5b36e7475e876590add5cd31f2b468be73be375432b0c84dc1576g.jpg)
(Bots don't see the flag, so they park a tank against it and cause traffic jams... ::))

It was just then I noticed that one of the flags had been capped and another greyed out, and by the time I got down there they'd taken the remaining frontline flag. The two remaining flags fell fairly quickly and we held them there for the last few minutes of the round, although they did momentarily take one of them back.

Too bad the Germans bled so hard at the start, after that great comeback they still lost 143-0... :)

Conclusion: The bots don't fuck around anymore do they?... ;D

@Void: G'day mate.

Mareth Line, ay? Seems you've been thrown in the deep end, but then you did ask for it... :)

BTW, if you haven't got Remick's fixes yet, DL this (only need to extract - no editing needed):
...Lebisey - Port en Bessin - Mt Olympus - Op. Cobra - Op. Goodwood - Villers Bocage ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/djfvypp7pzutmhw/2.3SP_fixed_files.rar

- Includes all Remick's latest fixes.

- Goodwood-16 added...

...Surprisingly, city fights, CQBs, are not that "bionic", bots do well in moving from cover to cover, clearing houses from human players, navigating along narrow paths, etc...
GW-16 and Brest are two of my favourite maps...there's never a dull moment... :)

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 01-11-2010, 12:11:41
Sometimes the issue with maps like FOT is that the bots play them like the battle would really have and this battle would prove real tough for Gerry on a 1:1 scale, worse if you play as Brit. Same goes for say, sfakia.

Little things matter, mg34 needs to get in range and deploy, bren is hipfired, AT gun is low profile, Germans start in the open.

German arty does help, but brit mortars are more deadly.

Issue I think, is Germans need to get a constant flow of tanks to the front. When that happens in some games, the difference is significant.

Map that shows this exact factor is sidi rezegh, where brits sweep into the axis, even if the player plays defender: mobile infantry, tank reinforcent. Thats it for NA maps. Attackers need to get there fast, and they need their tanks.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 01-11-2010, 13:11:54
Funny twist mate,

My Siege of Tobruk went the other way, the Germans managed to cap all the way through to Tobruk Outskirts, with Aussie bots repeatedly recapturing 2nd line flags (Ft. Airente and Argub Bdawa).

Also, I tried to run Mareth several times, the British could never advance beyond the red lines i drawn. It is quite amazing if they could cap Matmata and reach lower Gabes, before being blown into pieces by Stuka.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 01-11-2010, 14:11:38
Yup, they need more armored push to outnumber stuka dive-runs, and deal with mg positions for their infantry.

Again, its a tough map, sure. But its still a problem of statistics/ logistics.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 01-11-2010, 16:11:48
In addition to that, the bots do have some poor navigational skills.

Is there any particular variables that registers the bot's collision avoidance behavior? The bots seems to not know if their panzers and halftracks would fit a certain gap or narrow pass.

Also, they don't to like cross passable collision meshes like fences and railways, or even passable ditches and trenches. We have to tweak some variables so the bots would go a bit more clumsier, and at least try to cross some obstacles, in order to reach their objectives.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 01-11-2010, 19:11:11
Its more AI I think. In Goodwodd, you should see tanks reversing and moving foward, back and forth, back and forth, same navmeshes as 2.26

Personally, I would replace such map files with those from 2.26 for now to see if it makes a difference, but I'm certain that tanks reversing 10m and being overly cautious is AI, not navmeshing

Sure hope Drawde would be here, we could use a tweak-back in some areas so we get ESAI to shine through properly.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 01-11-2010, 22:11:06
Well, I've diven into Mareth Line and have done some coding. The situation at this point seems almost hopeless for the allies. I've been writing a custom ESAI plugin for the map, and using new strategies for the brits and standard ESAI strats for the germans.

I quite like the code I've written, except that it doesn't work yet. ESAI helps the Germans too for one thing. Typically both Toujane and Mareth are taken, then eventually the allies are driven out for the duration of the round.

The British infantry spawn is problematic because it interrupts the flow of tanks to the front. Can I make it for humans only, or is that cheating?

The bridges are a bot trap. Once the brits are on the other side, I need to keep them spawning on that side unless they are going to bring in armor.

Toujane is a bot trap for any vehicle. Ideally I would have infantry cap it and send all tanks to Mareth, but that is not possible within BF2.

I'd love to write bad AI for the Germans, but that would be cheating also.

You guys gave me a beast! I can, err, work on two maps at once, if someone wants to nominate a fun one.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 01-11-2010, 23:11:57
Well, to stop tanks going into Toujane will be to remove secondary nav-meshes in that are i.e vehicles. But I think the town is pretty well navmeshed, its the entry near the 'hedgehogs' that causes traffic.

Tanks can access it coming off from Mareth or Matmata/Romelle's Bunker along the Northerly road. But it means initial attack on Toujane will be infantry-only, which should be fine

About the foward spawn, I think reducing this would mean, bots will spawn at the main base, and with modded nav, would have to beat Mareth to get access to Toujane. Only infantry trekking from  the main on foot will pass the bridges leading to Toujane.

I think you'd have to play around with ratio-spawning, but that foward spawn is too important logistically to lose.

For an alternative map, I would narrow it down, personal choice, to Luttich, Vilers Bocage and Totalize
totalize would be wonderful with more agressive defenses and attack, but sadly, it has an unexplaied CTD so work on it would be a waste till that is found out. Villers is an interesting one, and the Allies could use more tanks at the front, but strategy is blah, and the battle is over too quickly, so I will have to nominate Luttich

Now this one is a funny one. The problem it has is that bots fighting over 4-equal priority flags with no focus on a proper defense or attack strategy, it lacks house to house fighting as it has no building interiors navmeshed, and it boats of frankly, one of the most bocage-ey terrains of any maps... But bots NEVER use them as they out of their way

My suggestion is this:
Remove German and Allied foward spawns, but make them capture-able areas. After all, this was a German offensive.

We need to change flags around a bit. Instead of the one foward German spawn have 3 capture-able spawns:
/The fields north of Abbaye Blanche
/The curve in the road between Abbaye Blanche and West Mortain
/The field overlooking mortain i.e Equi-distance between Mortain and the Germans
/The Tank graveyard above the farm

(http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af85/djinn424/LuttichStrategy.jpg)

Yes, bots CAN move easily through all these areas. We also make the fronline Allied spawn (Now a flag), also capture-able.

What happens is this,
Germans start to attack the field and tank graveyard first, with some effort at the road. Once the road is capped, they cap the fields overlooking Abbaye Blanche - A head-on assault

From the road and the fields, they turn into East and West Mortain. Once they cap the Tank graveyard, they split into capping the farm as well as east Mortain.

East Mortain, and the road there IS the main push. The rest is battling in the bocage

After MOrtain and its environs are secure, the Germans will dig in, with a small group, say a 3rd of the army splitting into 3 to capture the fields behind Mortain and the 2 roads leading into it.

For the yanks, they need to cap those blank flags i.e the fields above Abbaye Blanche, the curve in the road, the fields above Mortain and the Tank graveyard in order to peck at the Germans, however this is for about half the army.

Allies will ONLY spawn at the main base when vehicles are available (The fields behind Mortain and capture only, not spawn points).

They will move to defend the Town of Mortain, Abbaye Blanche and the farm, making the Axis only face tanks once they move on to Mortain, since the allied Tanks  will remain at Mortain and its environs, the axis can expect mostly infantry resistance unless they delay in moving on to mortain etc, by which time the allied tanks, like everyone else will be activated to assault flags infront of Mortain and environs (free flags on the German side of the town).

The idea is to move the battle away from Mortain and its environs alone with no real focus on a single important flag, to fighting to keep the enemy from even getting to those areas, in the bocage country, with more battles taking place across hedgerows and in fields than in the constricted town.

Town fighting will occur, if Gerry pushes that far, but it wil be brief, with more focus on moving on to the fields on either side, from where they can harrass the enemy on either side

Any better recommendations from anyone, do feel free to express, but this is my thinking. The exact inverse of Mareth Line: Nothing in the open, excellent under-used Navmeshes rather than over-used challenging paths.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 02-11-2010, 00:11:48
With Mareth Line, I was able to get the correct orders to bots and have them attack where I wanted, but they just never seemed to be able to cap the flags in the end.

Here is a screen of a typical British offensive under the changes I've made so far:

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/Default/screen026-cropped.jpg)

I'm still working on Mareth Line, but will start playing with Vilars Bocage. Djinn, if you make those changes to Luttich I will code the AI for it also.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 02-11-2010, 00:11:27
Well, then I need an amateur mapper.

Anyone here know how to put maps and spawn points on flags?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 02-11-2010, 01:11:28
Quote
Anyone here know how to put maps and spawn points on flags?

I know how.

Changing up control points, moving/adding/deleting spawns, changing Strategic Areas / SA Neighboring - all these things I can do. I just thought you knew also, and that you were going to work up a map version like the idea you posted.

I may make your changes to Luttich myself if no one else steps forward. Would rather first do some SAI coding on a map that doesn't need a makeover.

I have BF2 Editor open right now in fact. I have added some infantry and vehicle waypoints to Mareth Line, and am in the process of removing the tank blockades from the start of the road in to Toujane. The other static obstacles in Toujane I will leave alone - I just want to see what happens with those bot trapping hedgehogs out of the way.

"ESAI: Forgotten Hope Edition" exists now. I will post a d/l link as soon as I have a satisfactory FH2 map ESAI enabled and running the way I want.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 02-11-2010, 05:11:29
Done more coding on Mareth Line. Good news and promising results.

In testing so far, Britain has broken the barrier and made it past Mareth 2 times in 2 trials. The allies can't really advance much farther because I haven't yet written the strategy for them to do so, but check this out:

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/Default/mareth-wip-esai.jpg)

And in a separate test, Britain captured and held Matmata again. Sorry, no screen of that miracle.

I have hope for Mareth Line now after all, and intend to finish a version 1.0 for its ESAI plugin before moving on to another map.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: cannonfodder on 02-11-2010, 09:11:52
Lookin' good, Void.

Although, I think the Brits should defend Mareth once they take it, and go for Matmata, the Command Bunker, and the flag in D1 before trying to take the town.

Once the Germans lose it (and their airfield) they won't have a hope.

Just my 2 cents worth... :)
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 02-11-2010, 10:11:08
Quote
I think the Brits should defend Mareth once they take it, and go for Matmata, the Command Bunker, and the flag in D1 before trying to take the town.

I thought so as well at first,and indeed tried it that way to begin with. It doesn't work out in practice. If you go that route, the allies are too impossibly slow to mount any kind of organized assault without being driven out of Mareth eventually.

The only success I've had has been to work my way North, and then "Cleanup" the remaining hard points after the airfield has been taken.

Though the main push after Mareth is toward Lower Gabes, I do send some bots attacking Matmata at this time, mostly to keep the Germans from coming down and retaking Toujane.

The Command Bunker isn't targeted until after Matmata falls, which it rarely does.

The above is just summary;the tactics employed by the British are more detailed. As I write this the Brits have 19 different strategies available, and I'm not even finished with the SAI code. Close, but not finished yet.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 02-11-2010, 11:11:08
Matmata is actually easier to take than Gabes. Sure, lower Gabes can be taken, but until Upper Gabes is too, it becomes a deathtrap for armor, infantry and aircrafts alike.

Matmata simply needs a concerted effort to take it - Even without ESAI, it is sometimes taken. Mareth is the toughy. Because its in the open and under mortar and artillery barrage, it tends to change hands easily.

In the end I still feel, the 2-pronged attack would at least bring out German oversight at either the Western or Eastern flank i.e Toujane or Mareth, and allow the Brits to sweep through that sector

Playing as Brit, I noted that, when one side is under pressure, usually Mareth, the Germans pull troops from other sectors to defend it, so the other flank becomes easy - IF the Brits would treat each unprejudiced

IF mateth does fall, taking Lower Gabes isn't too hard, but its costly and ultimately pointless moves, since it will be recapped and at a great cost, afterall, you still have all German tanks intact and the allied lines become thin, stretching from Mareth to Gabes with easy pickings for Germans coming from the Tebaga Gap.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 02-11-2010, 11:11:15
Before completely doing away with the Hedgehogs, I took a look at PR this morning, and noted how vanilla tanks move, AND how FH2 tanks USED to move. The current way tanks move in 2.3 is terribly annoying and makes them very clunky especially in narrow corridors.

I'm trying to get someone to take a look at this, if it pans out, I'm sure British tanks at the main base and entering Toujane will move alot smoother
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 02-11-2010, 12:11:48
Ok, I'll leave the hedgehogs alone, lol.

For humans, I'm quite sure it is easier to take Matmata. It is just a hardship for the bots.

I have to send troops attacking in both directions (North and West) right after capturing Mareth and Toujane, else these flags are promptly retaken by the Germans. I've tried a mixed offensive/defensive strategy and it does not work well at all.

This is the basic structure of how things are setup now:

-  Two pronged assault on Mareth and Toujane
-  Once Mareth and Toujane are taken, another two pronged assault on Matmata and Lower Gabes
-  If Lower Gabes taken, attack Upper Gabes
-  If Matmata taken, attack Command Bunker
-  Once upper Gabes is secure, attack the Gap and Matmata / Command Bunker

I didn't set out to have the map play in a linear fashion. Note that the entire time Gabes is under attack, Matmata is also. Gabes tends to fall sometimes; Matmata tends not to.

I'll keep on it though.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 02-11-2010, 13:11:56
You like apples? Well how do you do like them apples?
(http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af85/djinn424/Apples.jpg)

We took Toujane, I noted the bots moved in sync with me as opposed to me spawn-capping with them. Mg defending Toujane was taken out by a Beau, tanks didn't ever the town. One capped, we made several attempt at Matmata. I got there first hoping my squad would spawn on me. They didn't, but another one made its way to join me and that was capped also.

I did spawn-cap Rommel's Bunker, but then it was bot tanks that capped the Tegaba Gap, as me and my squad couldn't make it pass weathering ack-ack fire harrassing as as far area C3.

Finally, the rest of the army captured Mareth and pushed into Gabes. Taken the Lower Gabes was easy, but then we were now facing the entire DAK and attempts on foot ended badly. I did note however, that the germans abondoned their tanks and our tanks were idling around the mouth of Upper Gabes, so I grabbed a captured hanomag halftruck with gunner and positioned it within the cap zone.

Amid exploding grenades, many of which did us service by causing German TKs, we finally closed the net around Gabes completely.

I noted a funny scenario afterwards. All of sudden,  about 7 or 8 DAK infantry came at us from the pilot mess right outside the tank area and launched what seemed like a counter-attack, but they were facing 3 tanks and the hanomag mg that cut them down is seconds....

Yer, passing through Matmata seems the more feasible option. Its not an easy cap, but its easier than the heavily defended Mareth  and easier to hold. Mareth changes hands until the rest of the force can swing around to attack the Tegaba gap and Gabes directly.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 02-11-2010, 15:11:43
LOL Djinn  ;D Nice work dude!

With our help, everything is possible, except winning round as Germans in Ramelle.

BTW, Totalize has path-mapping problem as shown in other thread. It is now a known bug.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 02-11-2010, 15:11:35
Funny you mention that, I just replaced 2.3 Totalize with 2.26 with 2.3's gameplayobjects.con and the bots were so sluggish I gave up. They almost didn't seem to recognize the planes repositioning and few left the main base. Well, I guess we need to leave this one in the capable hands of Remick to fix

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 02-11-2010, 16:11:55
You obviously missed this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/th_FH23bug5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/?action=view&current=FH23bug5.jpg)

Taken from FH2.3 Totalize on crashing. Remick is currently busy and still finding time to work on it.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 02-11-2010, 19:11:46
Well Djinn, I guess I like them apples just fine.

But... you are helping your bots, and so have different results than I do. I've been spawning at the airfield and just camping the entire round while the bots do their thing.

Today I am trying a new basic approach to this map's strategies, and will see how things work if Matmata is heavily prioritized over Lower Gabes.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 03-11-2010, 21:11:05
The ESAI plugin for this map is now at its third complete rewrite, but I think it is almost finished. I'm using an entirely different approach to the assault now. It works well, but the Command Bunker seems to need human help to be captured in a timely fashion.

I'm getting consistent results with the following attack plan:

1. Capture Toujane
2. Capture Matmata
3. Attack the Gap, The Bunker, and Mareth
4. Once the Gap and Mareth also controlled, push in toward Gabes.

I've run the Mareth v3.0 plugin in 5 trials, and have gotten consistent results. It works, but the plan falls to pieces if Toujane is recaptured by the Germans, which it will be if Command Bunker is not capped.

Here are the Brits in control of Toujane and Matmata:

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/FH2/mareth-30-WIP-2.jpg)

Here are the Brits in control of the Gap as Well

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/FH2/mareth-30-WIP-3.jpg)

And finally, the Brits have Mareth and are ready for the push into Gabes:

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/FH2/mareth-30-WIP-4.jpg)

I just wanted to get you guy's feeback on this approach before I finalized it. My next post should be the goods: ESAI FH2 Edition with Mareth Line map file and plugin included.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 03-11-2010, 21:11:12
Well, it seems good. I can't figure out why the bots don't attack the bunker more though... Its right there. Don't they get attacked by the 88 or mgs... Do the Germans use them?

I do recall bots sitting inside the base, but missing the cap area completely, standing idle as though they were capping in the stairway, but clearly not in cap-radius. Maybe check out the bunker and see if that's what they are doing

As for the left flank attack through Matmata, I to-old ya :-)
Seems to work that way like a charm. Hope its robust in the event the axis recap any of the bases... As in, the commander AI doesn't get screwed up with orders as to where to attack does it?

But it seems it would make for really interesting playing too...
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 04-11-2010, 00:11:16
Initial Release

ESAI:FH2 version 1.3 - Featuring custom SAI for Mareth Line SP 64.

EDIT: No more downloads of this version. See the "official" ESAI:FH2 Releases thread to download the latest version of ESAI: Forgotten Hope 2 Edition.

Regarding Mareth Line:
You, as the human, will need to take the Command Bunker yourself. Let it stay German, and Toujane will fall. If Toujane falls, the Brits are in a very tough spot and will likely loose.

Regarding ESAI:
The nice thing about this is you guys can test things out, give me feedback, and the map AI can be updated without any of you having to twiddle with your level files again. I update ESAI, not your maps.

Be sure to "install" this ESAI to /mods/fh2

Give Mareth Line a whirl and let me know what you all think.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 04-11-2010, 08:11:16
great work, man. Will give you feedback by the end of the day

Is it possible to dump the contents of the SP3 file into my COOP file also. Would it work?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 04-11-2010, 09:11:34
First Impressions:

Bots move quite swiftly to the front. First time I saw a Marder kill in this level, don't know if that's related. But airplanes are really deadly - Not a complaints. Actually quite interesting having to deal with them to save my tanks

I did note something though - Any attempt at the bunker was by commander orders, which changed quickly to Matmata or the Gap after a short time, so not enough units were able to get to the bunker before they had new orders. Bots do seem quite capable of capping it by themselves.

I kept switching sides to see what each army was doing. Germans sent a substantial force over to the bunker across the hill and they were only feet from capturing it, but somehow when I switched back to Germany, I noted they'd gone else where.

In the end, I had to go in myself, and another bot joined me to cap it.

The attack strategy is excellent though, and bots do use ma 2-pronged attack, but Mareth doesn't fall until at least after Matmata is capped - But I wont expect any less from a base that bears the level's name :-)

The AI commander clearly knows what he's doing. I think the killer to gameplay is not navmesh or commander AI any longer, but infantry seem rather lax regarding commands, and tank motion is unsure and that makes them only trickle to the front. Otherwise, this map definitely has been beefed up some

Great going, Void!!! We just need to try and get Drawde or somebody to work up another AI minimod to beef the individual AI a bit to make the strategy shine through.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: cannonfodder on 04-11-2010, 12:11:07
Awesome...we won 354-0 and I only capped 3 flags all round!... :o

Usually I'm the one doing all the work... :)

Considering the amount of obstacles and chokepoints on this map, the round played out well with zee Germans getting pushed back steadily. They put up a great fight though, retaking the Gap, Toujane, Matmata (twice), and Upper Gabes (twice).

Nor did they succumb to the pressure we put on 'em. Came sooo close to capping the last flag...just before it was about to go grey, some clever monkey decided it was time to annihilate everything that moved and started up a Tiger... ;D

The only thing I'm curious about, is why the Germans only seem to trickle out of the town once they only hold those two flags, i.e. their counterattack seems fairly weak... :-\

...I do recall bots sitting inside the base, but missing the cap area completely, standing idle as though they were capping in the stairway, but clearly not in cap-radius. Maybe check out the bunker and see if that's what they are doing...
Yep. When I first went in, there was a bot crouched in the hallway (outside cap-radius) and another in the room.

It does seem low-priority for the Brits. After we took Matmata the first time, 5 bots headed for the Bunker but were killed. Then it was ignored while they concentrated on Mareth. After it was taken, I'd see the odd squad making their way toward it, but then they'd drift off toward Mareth.

It's safe to assume the Germans think differently though. After I first got to the Bunker and killed the pair trying to cap it, I had to switch to SL so I could. While I waited for a bot to spawn on me, a German vehicle pulled up outside. I waited in the hall (expecting one, maybe two, bots) and a whole squad poured into the hall! This was about two minutes after killing the first pair.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 04-11-2010, 17:11:41
Quote
Is it possible to dump the contents of the SP3 file into my COOP file also. Would it work?

It's the same layer (2), so it should work fine if you do that.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 04-11-2010, 18:11:19
Quote
The only thing I'm curious about, is why the Germans only seem to trickle out of the town once they only hold those two flags, i.e. their counterattack seems fairly weak...

The current strategy set for Mareth Line has no contingencies for the Germans. When they are pinned in the town they would be in a standard ESAI counterAttack*3 strategy, going for at least 3 different control points at once. The Germans should really max out at two attacks when trapped in Gabes.

If you guys want a proper German defense strategy running on Mareth Line, I can add one to the ESAI plugin. However, I don't think the British would stand a chance if I did it. I created the invasion plan and so know it's details; it should be easy to defeat it using a custom German defense/counter offensive.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 04-11-2010, 18:11:58
I tried it, and the bots generally improved behavior-wise.

Not just in Mareth, but in every other map they drive better, especially in Villers-Bocage (Large FCAPF), I saw bots drive through pass-able hedgerows without problems. We have a pretty enjoyable round in Villers-Bocage with German bots counter-attacking furiously, while the British reacted aggressively too.

However, it is still a slow round in Mareth Line, playing as British, the bots capped Toujane with much effort from the human players, then they pretty much stuck there for me. If it wasn't for other players raining down the arty on Mareth, it won't be captureable. The German bots are simply faaaar better this time, I feel the challenge now. Then this is the classical stalemate. Matmata, needs our help too to be captured, simply because the German bots spawned there too many times and in the command bunker.

My config: difficulty (80), count (48), ratio (50 - 24 vs 24+2 human players)

What I see so far (vs. default FH2.3+BF2 ESAI)

Bots do navigate better
Bots drive vehicles better
Bots don't camp too often, they now move for a reason
Bots will attack their objectives, no idle bots, except those manning weapon emplacements
Bots occasionally spawn in main base and take tanks into the frontline (NIIIICE!!!!)

However I notice these problems as well:

Pilot bots will fly off-map when intercepted. This behavior seldom appears, but noticed in almost every map featuring air battles. I tried Gazala.

Defender bots showed its superiority over the attacking one (to reconfirm your concern, yes it is true). For example, in Luettich (Medium FCAPF), despite having superior armor (Panther tanks), they still lose to American defenders due to clumsy attack tactics, that is storming and overwhelm the defenders, which would only work when they are in numbers. Sadly, they rarely group into numbers when attacking.

Special note:

It seems that bots won't continue to the second line flags, when all first line flags aren't captured yet, despite being able to. (e.g. in Goodwood (Large FCAPF), after capturing LePreiure, they just wait and stormed LeMesnilFrementel instead of going straight to Cagny flags, thus making them bleeding to defeat). This doesn't happen before. But overall they still fight better and more determined to attack, occasionally overrun human defenders with better tank navigation (which makes them more difficult to anticipate). The bots in Gazala (Large FCAPF) doesn't attack 2 fronts as well, they concentrated on 150th box, but left Sidi Muftah alone, trapping their offensive there when the British counter-attacked.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 04-11-2010, 19:11:52
Quote
Pilot bots will fly off-map when intercepted. This behavior seldom appears, but noticed in almost every map featuring air battles. I tried Gazala.

Hmm, I've noticed ESAI seeming to cause this issue in XWW2 also. (XWW2 is ok mod I guess, but has AI issues just as funky as FH2 - if not even more "out there"). It doesn't happen under BF2 or any "Modern Combat" mod based on BF2. It must be AI issues with slower/less maneuverable planes in general.

Quote
The bots in Gazala (Large FCAPF) doesn't attack 2 fronts as well, they concentrated on 150th box, but left Sidi Muftah alone, trapping their offensive there when the British counter-attacked

Try the default Medium strategy set without any extras for Gazala and see how it plays. I just loaded this level up and looked at the #CPs + the SA neighboring, and largeFCAPF prob. isn't the best choice for it.

When choosing a map file (strategy set), you need to think of the map sizes in terms of the number of Flags and how they are neighbored, not in terms of geographic space. In general, start with the smaller sizes, then try the larger sizes if the smaller ones don't work.

The PF (push forward) strategy is only valid when there are more Safe SAs than SAs that are Fronts. Front and Safe are dynamic SA flags. a Front is a SA that has at least one enemy neighbor, while a Safe is a SA that has no enemy neighbors.

Furthermore, I may as well explain the PB (Protect Base) strategy while I'm at it. Understand that this strategy will never activate unless there is actually one or more SAs that are flagged as Bases. You must assign bases in the Gamemode's \AI\StrategicAreas.ai file.[/i]

The line to add, right after aiStrategicArea.addObjectTypeFlag ControlPoint, is aiStrategicArea.addObjectTypeFlag Base.

Now that you have bases in your map, the PB strat may actually protect them somewhat. PB doesn't order a defense on the threatened base - it spawns bots (usually) at the base and orders them to attack the nearest enemy CP.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 04-11-2010, 19:11:58
Quote
Germans sent a substantial force over to the bunker across the hill and they were only feet from capturing it, but somehow when I switched back to Germany, I noted they'd gone else where.

ESAI was originally developed and tested under BF2 patch 1.41. FH2 requires the dreaded 1.5 patch (I really hate this fact!). The 1.5 patch seemingly makes the bots much more likely to ignore Commander orders, or to obey them more sluggishly.

Controlling bots via SAI code is like trying to manipulate puppets using rubber bands instead of string. The 1.5 patch makes the rubber bands even more "elastic."

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2010, 00:11:57
Well, if anyone has no reason to play in any other format, or can afford to have both installations i.e 1.41 and 1.5, you can always get that back

Still, pitty its not as prominent a difference
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 00:11:28
I've worked on, and finished, the SAI code for Villers Bocage. There was an error in the SA neighboring, but it is fixed now.

A major change in Villers is that at round start, all Germans are given defense orders for the three forward outposts. It helps more or less depending on initial spawn patterns, but at the very least gets German armor moving in the right direction for a counter attack, rather than having the German bots just idle around waiting for the British to cap a flag.

I'm going to to do another map or two before my next ESAI:FH2 release. Then you all will have several new maps to test.

Just trying to pick the next one to work on.....any requests?

EDIT: Looking at ZooMotorpool's post above, there are a few maps that need help. I'll see about Gazala next unless someone begs otherwise.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2010, 01:11:34
I know its a bit for Luttich, but it would make a big difference with what i suggested :-(
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Devilman on 05-11-2010, 01:11:09

ESAI was originally developed and tested under BF2 patch 1.41. FH2 requires the dreaded 1.5 patch (I really hate this fact!). The 1.5 patch seemingly makes the bots much more likely to ignore Commander orders, or to obey them more sluggishly.

Actually it only requires the 1.5 patch to install it
You can then move it to your 1.41 install folder,and all seems to work fine

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DEVILMAN_09/FH214PATCH.jpg)

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DEVILMAN_09/FH2151PATCH.jpg)
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 02:11:41
Well, I'm about halfway through coding Gazala now, and will be finishing it before moving on.

I'm willing to rework Luttich, but I need precise details on where you want the new flags.

Just run around the map with ai debug rendering on, and write down the position coordinates for where you want the new flags to be. I need a list or diagram with numbered / named CPs and the desired position for each. I new diagram might be best.

Right now I am unclear on exactly how many new flags you want, and exactly where you want them.

Oh yeah, look at the files in the folder \fh2\ESAI\Debug\ to see how to enable ai debug output rendering to get the coordinates.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 02:11:53
In light of Devilman's post, I suggest you all to run FH2 under patch 1.41 for SP. Setting up a dual BF2 install is fairly easy, though that is probably a topic for a separate thread.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 06:11:24
I am pretty much finished with Gazala, and am ready to release ESAI:FH2 version 1.5.

All Map Specific files are now included in the main package - no more seperate map downloads.

I would like to keep all the ESAI downloads tidy and organized in one place, rather than scattered throughout this topic. This topic is great for feedback and project discussion.

May I make a separate ESAI release/download thread?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2010, 07:11:27
Sure, there is also a Singleplayer DL thread for all fan-based contents relating to SP/COOP - if CanonFodder would be able to update its first page to include ESAI there, since its his

Also, how do I enable ai debug rendering?
As for the location, its pretty much on the sketch I drew

(http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af85/djinn424/LuttichStrategy.jpg)

/North-Westerly Field or Abbaye Blanche Environs     -     Field overlooking Abbaye Blache
/Northern Pass    -    Curve in road through NW bocage-pass
/North-Easterly Field   -     Field overlooking Mortain
/Tank trap or Southern-Field      -    Empty field with blown out tanks to the south

For the flags below:
/Western Advance (Western Road)
/South-Westerly Field
/Eastern Advance (Eastern Road)

in that order as it appears on the map, from North to South. Their point, in essence is to get the fighting in the fields around Mortain as opposed to in the constricted town alone.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 07:11:20
To enable AI debug draw, you need to add some lines to \mods\fh2\AI\AIDefault.ai

look in the ESAI folder \Debug and you will find an example file with AI debug rendering enabled. The needed lines are commented; just copy and paste the code.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 05-11-2010, 10:11:19
I must say this project sounds very interesting, if the AI does perform as people are saying, it would breathe major life into some of the maps.

IMO, Op. Cobra (if not already addressed) would be a fine candidate for this work.

keep it up, fan contributions to SP seem to be gaining steam, which really amplifies the experience for COOP.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 05-11-2010, 19:11:56
Thanks Sheik, it is good to know that some of you are actually following our updates  :D

BTW, to light some ideas for Luettich, here is some brief text of approximately what happened:

Operation Luettich (German for Liege), is actually a foolhardy offensive ordered personally by Hitler to the German forces in Normandy. He intended to push west through the allied line until reaching coastal town of Avranches, cutting the main Allied forces into two, trapping the west-advancing American Army in the Brittany (Op. Cobra) and encircling the Allied forces amassing at the Normandy beach up north, from eastern-most town of Caen to western-most Contentin Peninsula. Field Marshall von Kluge, despite knowing the certain defeat, could do nothing but throwing everything he got into American defensive position, which lies in the town of Mortain. Eventually the German forces were defeated in this battle when their offensive were halted and raided by the Allied Air Force.

Now in FH2:

The map is re-created by Fenring, considerably scaled down, and simplified. The map features the town of Mortain itself, where the actual fights occurred on its outskirts. The map also features Abbaye Blanche and farm to simulate flanking attack routes, which was attempted by both parties. It does not count the air force and Hill 314 (overlooking the town) contribution however, it tries to recreate second day of the battle, where the thick early morning fog encircled the battlefield.

As Djinn showed, the battle for the town occurred on its outskirts as the real event did. US tanks are put in main base to recreate the brief German advantage over Mortain, before being stopped by US 3rd Armored Division.

In the game:

Abbaye Blanche is rarely played.
Farm seems to be the main focus of German attack.
Mortain is pretty much useless for the armor, they only harass infantries from the outskirts by flinging HE shells into the town, and tries to hit by blindfire.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 19:11:58
I've released version ESAI:FH2 version 1.5

Go and get it testers!

Map's now with custom SAI:

- Gazala 64
- Mareth Line 64
- Villers Bocage 64

Next on list is Op Cobra as requested, then I will play with our Luttich ideas.

Edit: Anyone care to fill me in on the improvements needed on Op Cobra? I just loaded it up; it looks like a fun map.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2010, 19:11:20
The issue it has may be out of your hand. First off, there is the double-cap i.e the water-mill flag is capped by the US, but because Germans are still there when this happens, fucky code makes it such that, no one actually has the flag, and the US keep believing they need to wait a bit longer to cap (with the whole army chipping in to help), and the Germans will continue to spawn from there... This bug happens about 9/10 times - And is only solves when it goes back in German hands proper

Bots usually don't go into the town... They struggle to get the Farm, which can be epic, but then they sluggishly make their way to the railway, and may make failed attempts at the German airfield until by luck or a moment of guard-down, its capped. Germans, if they ever lose everything and need to counter-attack, will make weak attempts at the airfield, only being able to cap the farm

Oh you picked y'self a fa-ine kettle of fish, mehn :-)

But apart from the first bug, improved AI just might be all that's needed to solve this map
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 20:11:58
Quote
The issue it has may be out of your hand. First off, there is the double-cap i.e the water-mill flag is capped by the US, but because Germans are still there when this happens, fucky code makes it such that, no one actually has the flag, and the US keep believing they need to wait a bit longer to cap (with the whole army chipping in to help), and the Germans will continue to spawn from there

1. Is this "double cap" bug some sort of Python nonsense ?
1a. Why can Germans still spawn at a Hostile/Neutral flag?

2. If it is python nonsense, may I try and hack the problem out of the python code? I know only a little python, but can reverse engineer it somewhat.

3. The other problems do not sound like an impossible challenge, once the water-mill is figured out. A work around is to leave this flag in German hands until some other flags are capped, but I'd rather not hack around with funky SAI code just b/c of a map bug.

Seems I like to choose maps that are challenging...

Can someone tell me more about the FH2 "double cap" phenomena?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 05-11-2010, 22:11:33
Quote
The issue it has may be out of your hand. First off, there is the double-cap i.e the water-mill flag is capped by the US, but because Germans are still there when this happens, fucky code makes it such that, no one actually has the flag, and the US keep believing they need to wait a bit longer to cap (with the whole army chipping in to help), and the Germans will continue to spawn from there

1. Is this "double cap" bug some sort of Python nonsense ?
1a. Why can Germans still spawn at a Hostile/Neutral flag?

2. If it is python nonsense, may I try and hack the problem out of the python code? I know only a little python, but can reverse engineer it somewhat.

3. The other problems do not sound like an impossible challenge, once the water-mill is figured out. A work around is to leave this flag in German hands until some other flags are capped, but I'd rather not hack around with funky SAI code just b/c of a map bug.

Seems I like to choose maps that are challenging...

Can someone tell me more about the FH2 "double cap" phenomena?

Sadly its more maps than just Cobra. about 50 or 60% of FH2 maps have this in COOP/SP.

Yer, Fritz still spawns at the flag. It changes to Allied flag on the ground, but is still German on the map. and because of that, Germans can still spawn there, while Allies wont leave it alone since, as far as they are concerned, its not ready yet

And, can you tinker with it... Yes, please? :-)

I think it has something to do with map linking or some such, maybe how the commander works with battle-flow cuz its exclusive to SP and COOP, and NOT in Conquest

But, yer, it MIGHT have some roots in python - Or so some say... Problem, no one has been able to solve it conclusively, but here is Winterhilf's theory - He worked on AI until 2.3

Re: Python flag capping bug.

Tried a few theories (seemed to work only for FoT), but still don't know for sure what the cause is.

Theories ranged from 2 or more CPs with the same or partly the same name & whether or not bots had vanilla kit ai templates.
But seems likely a piece of python code is the cause, python coders are a bit thin on the ground.

Try copying the gpm_cq over from the vanilla python folder & see if it's still happening. (back up 1st!)

Think also remming out "objecttemplate.forsoldieronly" helps, this doesn't occur in vanilla & could be causing python havoc for the bots.

@zM
There is actually alot that can be done with Luettich. It has, in my oppinion, one of the most representative bocage layouts: a small town, a farm, a church tower, mg positions, solid hedgrow and pass-through brush and various open fields surrounded by bocage, each unique and tactical important to one or other base - And bots seem to be able to go ANYWHERE

Extra flags, I feel would simply move the battle away from the constricted fighting more, and exploit that natural beauty... AND it wont take away from strategy: those flags are cap-pable, but shouldn't affect ticket bleed or be spawn areas per se. That last clause depends on whoever can take up the challenge

Its just nice to be part of, or run into an ambush in and battle against infantry or even armor through the hedgerows - It was done succesfully in FH1 maps like Road to Carentan AKA Purple Heart Lane ver. 1, and THESE bots don't have pixel aiming

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 05-11-2010, 23:11:14
Well, I don't much feel like wandering through python code today, so I've been working on Luttich. I have the new American flags in, and am working on the new German positions now.

Didn't realize that Winterhilf had already tried to debug the double-cap bug. I will try to fix it, but don't get your hopes up too high.

I plan on writing a python module of my own that selectively writes to a log file the activities of other FH2 python code that I am suspicious of.

The eventual solution will probably be to gracefully disable some of the custom FH2 python. I'd like to do this on a per-map basis obviously. I've only started looking at the structure of FH2's python plugins. Don't know yet if I can hack them properly or not.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 02:11:08
Well Djinn, I couldn't set up the flags exactly the way you wanted. There is no navmesh in the area you indicated for the northernmost German base, so I've reworked things with only three new flags for each side.

I am confused about the three partition combat area that was in the original version of the map. I deleted it, and have created a new standard combat area that simply follows the edges of the infantry navmesh.

Here is a screen of the new layout and combat area (bird's eye view from the Editor):

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/FH2/Luttich-CPs-CombatArea.jpg)

I'll try and have a working test version up soon.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 06-11-2010, 03:11:16
The "three partition" combat area is meant as "ABC" zone or "Anti Base Camping" zone, which could be pretty much irrelevant for SP, but quite important for COOP mode, where servers would like to run them to attract players.

The ABC zone acts like a desertion zone for the opposing team, so the player from the other team could not travel close enough to your base, find nice spot, and start killing other players right at their spawn points (before they are even able to do anything).
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 03:11:08
Then I will have to learn how to create multiple combat areas. The original ABC zones encompassed some of the new flags, so they had to go. I will try to make new ones, but first will finish the other map changes.

I've finished creating SAs and neighboring them, and just got done with the infantry/vehicle order positions. I've loaded the modded map in game and everything works.

I just have to finish adding spawnpoints, and it will be ready for testing with, say, ESAI default mediumMap strategy set ... perhaps largeMap, we will see.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 06-11-2010, 03:11:51
BTW Djinn,

The sluggish bot advance in Cobra, especially to the town and railway station is because of too many bomb craters out there, which bots would like to avoid.

These navigation problem could be partially solved by waypointing every narrow passes in the map. I once successfully did this in Bardia 64, forcing the bots to drive through the bridges smoothly, and ford the shallow river to cross it just by putting series of waypoints that lead them through it.

The same thing can be done with Railway crossings.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 05:11:39
Well, the first beta version of the alternate Operation Luttich is finished.

EDIT: I screwed up the neighboring, look a few posts down for the release.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 06-11-2010, 08:11:09
Just played it twice. Its definitely an improvements, Allied tanks still trickle in, but they seem to move to the front alot faster, especially at the start of the battle.

Axis tanks also roll in unending with infantry in tow, which totally beats the former way of attacking, with trickle of infantry coming in and the odd tank

I think the new flags DO give the battlefield quite a bit of flexibility, while staying true to the original design. The battle still centers around Mortain, but it gives the victors something extra by allowing them to route the enemy.

Still, I feel the Axis North flag (Great names, btw... Mine sucked proper) is a bit too close to the axis center. Perhaps moving it to the field right to the NW of it would make it more independent. I know at least THAT field is navmeshed because my bot-team pass through it to get there. I'd actually put it right on the path to Abbaye Blache as it give seach side a few seconds breather with Gerry not start firing at the defenders from the get-go, but you look and see which you think works better with flow

Somehow, even with the new flags, the farm, and more so Abbaye blanche still seem isolated. Axis usually cap these with little resistance and hold it for most of the battle.

A big negative I did note when the US had capped all but Axis center and South, the AI commander kept telling us to attacking the German main in the endless commander spawn that goes with such an order... There might be an issue with neighboring or something for him to give that order

In conclusion, this map has definitely picked up, and with the battle raging everywhere, its certainly been given a fresh lease on life
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 08:11:17
If there is base commander spam then I made a mistake with my neighboring, which is embarrassing. I did do this in basically a day though.

I'll fix the Commander Spam and post a new version of the map.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 08:11:42
Operation Luttich Alternate Version Take Two.

Now without Commander Spam!

It looks like this:

(http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y376/void249/FH2/Luttich-finished-alt2.jpg)

I've already got the map hooked to ESAI. Just download the file below and patch in the changes (instructions included).

Here is the corrected version:

Operation Luttich SP Alternate Version (http://www.filefront.com/17482036/Operation-Luttich-SP-Alternate-Fixed.rar)

So far only two downloads of the first version. I'll let more people try this proper map before I go moving flags around.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 06-11-2010, 10:11:46
One little bug I have noted in many of the ESAIed maps is that the commander can 'change his mind'. He would tell you attack one location, and a bit later, but not as a spam, he switches to another. If that was somehow introduced with ESAI, then I fear it might undermine the momentum ESAI otherwise brings, because it takes a few secs for bots to imbibe a change of plan. Don't see significant loss of momentum, if anything its the opposite, but I'm going on the theory here - Anyone else confirm noting this oddity?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 06-11-2010, 12:11:49
Void:

Would you mind explaining the strategy sets in detail?

All i understand is that:

FCA (Focused Counter Attack): Is this a strategy to make bots attack whatever flags that is not theirs?

PF (Push Forward): From your explanation, it is like the bots will attack the front lines, and will not commit "backcapping" (bypassing first line of defense, and capturing whatever flag behind it (depends on the flag neighboring though)). So they will continue attacking in order, the front most flag, then the flag behind it, and so on. Is that right?
So this strategy is less effective in a free-for-cap map like Villers Bocage or Cobra, where bots could attack any flags they want and able to capture it.

PB (Protect Base): Make bots protect any flags designated as "base" defined in gameplayobjects.con file.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 16:11:20
Quote
One little bug I have noted in many of the ESAIed maps is that the commander can 'change his mind'. He would tell you attack one location, and a bit later, but not as a spam, he switches to another

That just means you have failed to do his wishes and so are punished by confusing orders.

Seriously though...

The commander changing his "mind" is often part of what makes ESAI work, but if he is changing it too often then it is a problem. FH2 maps seem to be made so that,usually, once you start going for a CP, you are committed to trying to cap it.

The commander is usually changing orders when the active strategy changes. For example, you may be in a counterAttack3 strat, attacking 3 flags at once. This strat has a time limit, and you reach it. If nothing has changed flag wise, you will now be in a counterAttackHarder3 strat - still attacking 3 flags at once. Like as not the exact same flags are still under attack, but unfortunately the commander seems not to always assign the same attack orders to the individual squads.

I can reduce the frequency of CO order changes, but it means raising all the strategy time limits in the ESAI core. ESAI:FH2 is using a tweaked version of my latest beta core for regular ESAI. This core does indeed have lower strategy time limits than my last regular ESAI version. I may have to raise the time limits back to where they used to be, or even higher, since FH2 vehicles are slower in general than BF2 transportation.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 06-11-2010, 16:11:12
True, sometimes it is frustrating that the bots repeatedly sacrificed their lives attacking overwhelmingly fortress-like position and bleeding huge amount of tickets as a result.

The commander be better change his mind i say. For example in Fall of Tobruk, our offensive attacking officer's building failed, but the outskirts are taken, then the commander changes mind to concentrate all of his forces to Mussolini's Plaza. This way, it works better than repeating useless attack to the well defended position.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 06-11-2010, 18:11:10
Quote
Would you mind explaining the strategy sets in detail?

Yes I mind, but I'll explain anyway just for you...or in all seriousness, let me just explain more how ESAI works:

The core tests three simple conditions, one of which will always be true to the exclusion of the others. It is all about flag balance. The core asks if the number of friendly flags is <,=, or > than the number of enemy flags.

There are 3 families of core strategies, each of which is activated under one of the 3 conditions:

<  : counterAttack, counterAttackHarder
=  : basicAttack, basicAttackHarder
>  : pressAttack, pressAttackHarder

Each family has multiple variants for *attack and *attackHarder. The only difference in these is the number of simultaneous attacks, and the time limits for the strategies. This is where organizing the core strategies into Strategy Sets comes into play.

For example, I could cover all possibilities by simply assigning this to both teams:
Code: [Select]
rem -- Minimalist Map Strategies --rem Team 1ai.addSAIStrategy 1 basicAttack2ai.addSAIStrategy 1 pressAttack3ai.addSAIStrategy 1 counterAttack4rem Team2ai.addSAIStrategy 2 basicAttack2ai.addSAIStrategy 2 pressAttack3ai.addSAIStrategy 2 counterAttack4
Note the numbers at the end of each strategy. This number denotes the maximum number of attacks available to the CO when the strat is active.

Note also that the *attackHarder strats aren't even included in my example. They are not needed to cover the absolute basics.

basicAttack* should usually be chosen so that it has the fewest amount of available attacks compared to the other two strategy families.
pressAttack* should usually be chosen so that it has more attacks available than basicAttack*, but less than counterAttack*
counterAttack* should usually be chosen so that it has more attacks available than pressAttack*

In the default strategy sets, I've simply organized core strategies into groups that seem to work well together, and organized them into different "sizes", where increased size is targeted at maps with greater numbers of CPs, i.e., greater numbers of flags that can come under attack simultaneously.

That is enough about the core and default strats. Now on to the rest of your questions about some of the user space plugins / strategy sets.

Quote
FCA (Focused Counter Attack): Is this a strategy to make bots attack whatever flags that is not theirs?

The goal of FCA is to drop the number of max attacks to only one, and gain a flag as soon as possible.

FCA activates when both these conditions are true:

1. The team is behind on flags
2. The team is behind on tickets: 75% or less friendly to enemy ticket ratio.

This combination is the closest I can come to checking for ticket bleed

FCA has the following characteristics:

1. One attack at max agression
2. SA Temperature multiplier for all Fronts, boosting chance that bots will spawn at Fronts
3. SA Temperature multipliers for all Remotes and Safes, reducing chance that bots will spawn away from the Front.
4. 3 Minute time limit, so as not to wear down the army going for one flag if it can't be taken.

Quote
PF (Push Forward): From your explanation, it is like the bots will attack the front lines, and will not commit "backcapping" (bypassing first line of defense, and capturing whatever flag behind it (depends on the flag neighboring though)). So they will continue attacking in order, the front most flag, then the flag behind it, and so on. Is that right?

I think you are confused about what I mean by "Front". In terms of SAI code, a Front is an owned Flag that has one or more Hostile neighbors. The inverse of Front is Safe. Safe Flags are owned areas that have no Hostile neighbors.

PF merely attempts to spawn bots at the front lines using SA Temp modifiers similar to the ones in FCA, and have them steam ahead with a max of two attacks.

PF activates when the following is true:

1. Friendly is ahead on flags
2. There are no Neutral flags
3. There are more friendly Safe CPs than friendly CPs that are Fronts

The third condition is the most important, and when it is true it usually means that the other team is on bleed. PF tries to go in for the kill, but will not necessarily ignore flanks and so on if there are any.

Quote
PB (Protect Base): Make bots protect any flags designated as "base" defined in gameplayobjects.con file.

PB doesn't defend anything, it tries to Protect your Base by spawning bots at the Base, and ordering them to attack (hopefully) the Hostile CP that is closest to the threatened Base.

You designate a Strategic Area as a Base in the file StrategicAreas.ai.

PB activates when the following is true:

1. Side is behind on flags
2. Side has more flags that are Fronts than those that are Safe
3. Side has a Base that is also a Front

PB targets Hostile CPs more than Neutral ones, and has a max of 2 attacks at 3/4 Agression.

Does that help somewhat? I would explain more, but I need to get busy doing some real world stuff.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 06-11-2010, 18:11:34
Now this is very detailed indeed. Thank you very much Void.

I could begin to tweak some codes with more confidence now. Might experiment a bit, to keep some small percentage of the bots spawning at main base, because it is where all the big tanks and vehicles are located.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 08-11-2010, 02:11:28
Quote
Might experiment a bit, to keep some small percentage of the bots spawning at main base, because it is where all the big tanks and vehicles are located.

You are welcome to tweak ESAI however you please. Here are some paths I would suggest you try for more control over bot spawning patterns:

First off, there are several ESAI supported ObjectType flags you can add to Strategic Areas, beyond "Base". Look at the code comments in the \ESAI\Core\esaicore.ai for a list of supported ObjectType flags. Adding these on a per level basis is often all you need to do to achieve satisfactory spawn patterns.

Secondly, you might want to have a look at ESAI\Core\esaivars.ai . This file holds all the values for the SA Temperature multipliers. Experiment with different weights for the various ObjectType flags if you cannot get the spawn patterns you want using just level specific SA ObjectType flags.

If you want to really get into things, write your own ESAI:FH2 plugin. I can help teach you how to write the code. You can actually learn yourself by looking at the code I've already written.

If you want to write some SAI code, I will help if you need me to explain how.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: SavageCDN on 08-11-2010, 18:11:26
Thanks Sheik, it is good to know that some of you are actually following our updates  :D

Just to let you know there are others following as well and appreciate the hard work being done by all involved.
8)
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 08-11-2010, 19:11:21
Well, ESAI:FH2 v 1.5 has been downloaded 24 times as I write this. Not bad, not bad. Seems a few folks are paying attention...

It is hard work, but it is fun work, so it is all good.

For the next release of ESAI:FH2 I am working on custom SAI code for our alternate version of Operation Luttich. If it turns out the way I want, the map should play a little differently. Here is a summary of what I am cooking up:

British: At map start, defense orders on the 4 front line Flags. Not that the Brits will know where the initial Axis invasion will occur...

Germans:

At map start, Axis CO will choose one of four equally likely invasion plans. I have creatively named them plans A,B,C,and D.  Each plan has 3 phases, with phase 2 further subdivided into two sub-plans (the choice of phase 2 sub-plan depends on the results of phase 1).

Each major invasion plan starts with a max of two attacks: an Axis thrust towards specific front line targets.

The Germans may attack the North/South flanks first (plan A) , the middle two flags first (Plan B), the northernmost two flags first (plan C), or the southernmost two flags first (plan D).

If it works the way I want, the map's game play should be substantially challenging for either side and unpredictable from the defender's point of view.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 08-11-2010, 23:11:55
I just noticed that Siege of Tobruk 64 doesn't obey the push order for flags under the Vanilla AI. I'm going to fix it before I get into the Luttich project.

This map have the "double cap" bug? If yes, which flag?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 02:11:25
I think its the docks, or so I hear. Anyone confirm this fact?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: cannonfodder on 09-11-2010, 10:11:48
Well, ESAI:FH2 v 1.5 has been downloaded 24 times as I write this. Not bad, not bad. Seems a few folks are paying attention...
You'll get a few more than that once I add it to the DL sticky (110 DL's of 2.3_fixed_files.rar in 3 weeks).

As long as they are final versions (for the time being, at least), I'll add ready-to-go server.zip's for Mareth, Gazala, and Villers to the sticky in the next day or two.

And just so you know, that DL sticky is mainly for people who aren't familiar with editing archives. I make installing any files I add to it as simple as: rename/backup file 'X' and then extract the file you DL'ed to here.

That's why I haven't added ESAI, I'm a lazy bludger and I haven't uploaded the server.zip's yet... :)

You must be thinking of Fall of Tobruk djinn, there's no water on Siege... ;)

And it's one of the maps on which I haven't seen the double-cap issue.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 12:11:32
oh, yer... then no, Siege of Tobruk doesn't have a double-cap. Thanks, cF :-)
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 09-11-2010, 18:11:22
Quote
As long as they are final versions (for the time being, at least), I'll add ready-to-go server.zip's for Mareth, Gazala, and Villers to the sticky in the next day or two.

Yes, they are final versions for now. If I update the map AI, I just update the ESAI map plugin anyway - no changes needed to server.zip.

EDIT: cF, make sure to include both the Strategies.ai files as well as the StrategicAreas.ai files I author. In the maps with custom SAI, my code depends on SA ObjectType flags set in StrategicAreas.ai.

I'm about to release ESAI:FH2 v1.6 - I've finished coding SoT. I really don't understand why it didn't have a custom strategy to begin with. It needs one b/c of the "Push" game mode and the way the flags are neighbored. No custom SAI = confused bots attacking flags they cannot capture.

Are there more of these "Push" maps where bots do not know what order to cap the flags in? I want to go ahead and fix the rest of them.

Place your orders, please...
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 18:11:18
Offhead,
The st. Lo Breakout - bots attach church when some of first line bases arent capped

fall of tobruk - bots may forget the docks

alam halfa - bots may go for british main and forget 2nd line bases

supercharge - bots proceed to at gun base without capping 88 base

lebisey - bots may attack the chateau before frontline is capped

operation goodwood - bots may skip cagney and go for base next to axis main

ramelle neuville - not known offhead, but i think it exists

For most its just one flag.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 09-11-2010, 18:11:36
Wow, that's a lot of maps. This list will be priority - having bots attack uncappable flags is simply nonsense that should have been addressed already. I don't understand why it never was.

Could you repost the list and mark the maps that have double-cap bug? I'm going to do the ones without it first, in the hopes that some inspired genius/madman can worm through the python code and squash that bug.

I've looked at some FH2 python,and already have some ideas about the root cause of the dreaded "double-cap", but they will only be vague suspicions until I can work myself up,or get sufficiently intoxicated, to tolerate diving deeper into the FH2 python jungle.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 19:11:05
Well, i did say offhead. I might have forgotten a couple.

/The st. Lo Breakout

/alam halfa

/supercharge

/lebisey

/operation goodwood

These dont have a double-cap issue. Sorry to pile em on, but with the whole sp project slowed to a standstill, you efforts are so appreciated

I manage to do a fresh fh2 and bf2 install. Darn thing took an hour and a half. I will be testing your work with my bf2.41
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Zoologic on 09-11-2010, 19:11:56
St. Lo's hill flag has double-cap issue.

Alam Halfa is also known to have it in first both flags.

Fall of Tobruk is well identified.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 09-11-2010, 19:11:09
ESAI:FH2 v1.6 has been released.

I'm next going after these three maps in this order:

-supercharge

-lebisey

-operation goodwood

If any of these maps have additional strategic considerations beyond capping the flags in the correct order, now is the time to fill me in.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 19:11:33
These are all good maps, generally. On goodwood, Germans do have an issue moving their tanks to the front though, courtesy of a minor change in bot tank handling in narrow spaces, but otherwise it works fine.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 20:11:01
Hi, can anyone who has bf2 1.41 installed give me a DL link to its RendDX9.dll file. I accidentally copied 1.5s own over it and would otherwise need to reinstall the whole bf2, patches and fh2 to solve this. Thanx.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 09-11-2010, 20:11:29
Hi, can anyone who has bf2 1.41 installed give me a DL link to its RendDX9.dll file. I accidentally copied 1.5s own over it and would otherwise need to reinstall the whole bf2, patches and fh2 to solve this. Thanx.

no prob, have it uploaded for you in a moment.

EDIT:

here ya go Djinn:  BF2 1.41 RendDX9 Dlls (http://www.filefront.com/17497675/bf2-141-dlls.rar)

I don't know if you have the editor/debugger installed, but I included the dlls for it also.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 09-11-2010, 22:11:36
Supercharge 64 is finished.

Will do the next two maps (lebisey,operation goodwood) before my next ESAI:FH2 release.

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 09-11-2010, 22:11:13
Thanx.
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: Void on 10-11-2010, 02:11:00
Lebisey 64 is finished.

I've noticed, as I seemingly always run FH2 with AI Debug Rendering on, that my strategies change before the flags change status on the map - by around 3 to 5 seconds. This is not the case in regular BF2. In BF2, my strats change pretty much in sync with the changes on the map, or the "overhead" view if you will.

Makes me wonder about the python hooks that control flag ownership even more. If I could partner with a good Python coder I think we would be in a good position to solve the double-cap bug together.

EDIT: Admins/Moderators: could this thread possibly be renamed to just "ESAI:FH2 Discussion", or something? Everyone here already knows I wrote ESAI, and my handle is Void at more places than just BFSP. Just a thought...

Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 10-11-2010, 07:11:58
Zoomotorpool can do that. U just need to edit his first post, am i right, zM?
Title: Re: ESAI (Enhanced Strategic AI) by Void BFSP
Post by: djinn on 10-11-2010, 10:11:12
Small idea, if or whenever you get to Invasion of Crete. By itself the bots know what to do, which is quite excellent for a map with no clear front. ESAI will probably enhance their aggression. Something else that may be nice would be to change the spawn order for the JU52s, so that rather than there being 2 which spawn right after each other, there is an indefinite amount, or at least a larger number of them. Also, having them spawn there while there are planes on at the airstrip means, JUs will constantly come flying in and Gerry will always have Stukas in the air.

The Brits will therefore need to really make use of those bofers to down the divebombers or their defense is kaput - Currently its hard work for the Germans who land with only 2 planes (That's not everybody, the rest need to spawn once a flag is capped) and trek inland under weathering fire.

Also, its just darn cinematic. I'm sure we can change bofers to be as aggressive with JUs as Stukas ... but that's a minor, and currently unimportant aspect.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Discussion
Post by: Zoologic on 10-11-2010, 13:11:07
Zoomotorpool can do that. U just need to edit his first post, am i right, zM?

Yeah, but that will only change the first post.

I think we should have renamed at my post here.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 10-11-2010, 17:11:20
Thread renaming is no big deal, just thought it unneeded to have my handle screaming in the title. I don't need that much credit, heh. But it really doesn't matter.

Now to business. I'm currently working on Op. Goodwood 64. On this one, both sides get incorrect attack orders, so it is going to be more involved than some of the others.

Can one of you please tell me the flag capture order on this map - what flags depend on what flag and so on - so I don't have to play it half a dozen times to figure it out myself?

EDIT:

Djinn, I will see about Invasion of Crete in due time. I want to finish Goodwood first, then I'm releasing ESAI:FH2 with a big fat 2.0 version number (because I had to rewrite Lebisey once from the ground up).

The plugin for Lebisey is complex - it is almost as large as the ESAI core. It is a good example of how to write SAI code so that bots attack specific flags.

zM, I'm still waiting for you to learn how to write SAI code so you can help me on some of these maps!

EDIT2:

cF, I humbly suggest waiting for the upcoming ESAI:FH2 version 2.0 before adding ESAI to your D/L sticky. When I release it, we will have custom SAI for 7 maps. That should do nicely for a testing/feedback/update cycle.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 10-11-2010, 19:11:02
First 2 flags, closest to Allies, then both flags in Cagney, then both flags at the German side... Not sure there's even Push in this one, but that's the order that works

If possible, would it be possible to somehow get Brits spawning on, or next to their arty. It NEVER EVER gets used.

Map doesn't need much otherwise
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 10-11-2010, 19:11:05
Quote
First 2 flags, closest to Allies, then both flags in Cagney, then both flags at the German side... Not sure there's even Push in this one, but that's the order that works

Thanks man. Now I can get started....and Yeah, there is a push mode in this map. Both sides get incorrect orders, so the code for it will feature a defense / counter offensive set of strategies as well as strategies for the invaders.

I'll see about the arty. Looks like this level may need to be brought into the editor for some minor adjustments.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 10-11-2010, 21:11:25
OK Then, problem:

Operation Goodwood has 4 "dummy" control points that belong to the Allies. They have no AreaValue, and they have no associated Strategic Areas. These CPs are wreaking havoc with testing for flag balance in the ESAI core.

Can anyone tell me their purpose?

If nobody knows their purpose, may I remove them?

Never seen this in a BF2 map before...
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 10-11-2010, 21:11:15
wow... 4 allied dummy control points?

That's not like spawn points is it?

The only thing I recall Winterhilf did to this map was to tweak spawn points, specifically for axis, and have armor able to move across the rail itself as well as across the dikes.

He's probably the best to answer this. But he's super scarce on these forums lately

Well, you know the drill, backup, delete, review.... All i can say :-\
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 10-11-2010, 23:11:48
Just loaded it up in the editor. Actually, one of the dummies is for Axis. They are all vehicle spawners. I'm going to just leave the dummy CPs alone, and write the SAI code to work around them.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 10-11-2010, 23:11:52
yer, it might be conditional spawns or something. The King tiger spawns if Cagney falls to Allies.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 11-11-2010, 08:11:24
I've finished with Operation Goodwood, and am about to release ESAI:FH2 v2.0.

I really liked this map, and spent many hours on the code for its strategies. I tried to create two AI commanders who were both reasonably sane, yet with different "personalities". In my tests, the allies consistently win - but this is without human intervention.

Djinn, there already were spawn points by the arty; sorry the bots don't seem to show.

Anyway, I'm going to wait for this thread to hopefully get filled with a little user feedback before I decide where to take this project next.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 11-11-2010, 10:11:42
I've played Goodwood so far. Bots definitely seem to engage more in the town, and for the first time playing this map, the british 25pdrs were used, BOTH of em!

Only issue I note is that not enough Germans spawn at their main base so almost no tanks make it on the battlefield. I saw 2 Panthers, a King Tiger, a PzIV (which is usually the only one that gets taken) and a StuG just sitting there.

The layout of the map means, few Germans spawning right on defensive guns like the 88s, the PAk40s (including the mobile one at the middle-map base) should be able to defend the entire area with the marders only acting as thorns in the sides of the Brits, leaving a large force spawning back for tanks

Will try the rest later and give feedback

Great work btw - Even tanks seem to move better. I think clear orders really do help
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 11-11-2010, 11:11:22
...cF, I humbly suggest waiting for the upcoming ESAI:FH2 version 2.0 before adding ESAI to your D/L sticky. When I release it, we will have custom SAI for 7 maps. That should do nicely for a testing/feedback/update cycle.

Cool. Sounds like a plan to me... :)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 11-11-2010, 14:11:52
My learning plan pretty much stalled by real-life work  :( I'm so sorry.

But from what i've learned. We can assign specific control points on map for the AI-strategist to see right? I'm trying to show coordinates in-game, do anybody know how to enable this "AI-debug" mode?

TBH, what I really want to be able to do now is to Navmesh and code bot-weapon/vehicle interaction!! Some map like Anctoville still have glitches like British bots trying to superficially flank the attack route, only to find the hedgerows to cumbersome to maneuver in-between.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 11-11-2010, 18:11:52
to enable AI debug mode, add these lines to \mods\fh2\AI\AIdefault.ai

Code: [Select]
rem =======================-   Enable AI Debug Output   -===================================rem   Main Switchrem :aiDebug.draw 1rem %rem   Turn Off bot AI statsrem : aiSettings.setDrawBotStats 0rem %rem   Limit the draw distance for bot targeting/pathfinding lines to 1mrem :aiSettings.setStatsViewDistance 1rem ========================================================================================
place that right before the line that runs that bot names file.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 11-11-2010, 21:11:25
Quote
But from what i've learned. We can assign specific control points on map for the AI-strategist to see right?

It works like this: You have a CP, then bind it to a Strategic Area (which I will just call "SA" from now on).

Then you assign a designation (ObjectType) to the SA. This gives you a means of both testing for ownership of that particular CP, as well as attacking/defending it.

In some cases it is useful to create SAs that are not associated with a CP - these can be used as a kind of "super waypoint" for bots. However, if you do not write your SAI code properly these types of SAs can become Commander Spam generators from hell.

I suggest you d/l the standard reference on BF1942 Strategic AI written by Tobias Karlson. You can find it at BFSP  Here  (http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/files/documents/ea_ai/EA_AI_pdfs.zip)

It is written for bf1942, but most things still apply to BF2. I would also suggest you read my own "Intro to BF2 Strategic AI", but I haven't finished it yet. Perhaps I will work on it today.

Finally, beware of trying to learn from examples of SAI code you find out in the wild. There are surely exceptions, but most of the custom SAI code I've run across is basically crap. It took me a lot of trial and error to learn how to write map strategy, largely because I was looking at poor examples of it.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Remick04 on 11-11-2010, 22:11:40
TBH, what I really want to be able to do now is to Navmesh and code bot-weapon/vehicle interaction!! Some map like Anctoville still have glitches like British bots trying to superficially flank the attack route, only to find the hedgerows to cumbersome to maneuver in-between.

The Allied tanks on Anctoville all head north when entering the town because as far as they are concerned that’s the only way in. All other roads have objects on them that make the paths too narrow, so the navmesh didn't generate completely through them. I do have an updated version of Ancotville's navmesh that didn't make it into 2.3, where some of these narrow paths are fix, but the tanks tend to get stuck on the objects and barriers in the road. I was going to include the update navmesh with my fixes, but encountered a last minute CTD bug with Anctoville and decided against it.

As for learning Navmeshing and AI codeing all I can say is... What’s stopping ya? I have no clue what I'm doing, Never more evident than in the multitude of AI problems in 2.3. But I'm learning quick, and mostly through trial and error. If you really want to learn it... Start by doing it. ;)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 12-11-2010, 08:11:24
Ok, I think I'm doing something wrong. I now realize I'm not getting the ESAI experience at all. Commanders still send troops to uncaps, forces don't move in with significantly more aggression.... Let me see if I get the installation correct

I dump the map files into their apprioporate locations in server.ZIP/Gamemodes/SP or COOP/AI right?

Then the ESAI folder itself just sits in the root FH2 folder? No change to any file in text editor to point to the mod, right?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 12-11-2010, 08:11:10
Yep...the 'ESAI' folder goes in '...mods/fh2'.

And I add the files from 'ESAI/MapFiles/fh2/level X' to the level's server.zip and it's working for me.

I navigate to: 'server.ZIP/Gamemodes' then dump the new 'sp3' and 'gpm_coop' in there. Then I double-check the date the files were modified to make sure it's all good.

You can always check and see if there's a 'Strategies.ai' file in there as I don't think any of them had one to start with... :-\
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 12-11-2010, 11:11:07
hmm... then maybe it does somehow work better with BF2 1.5 than 1.41... Will move FH2s around and see, cuz its a bit sad that I'm not feeling this since I reinstalled 1.41
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 12-11-2010, 15:11:13

As for learning Navmeshing and AI codeing all I can say is... What’s stopping ya? I have no clue what I'm doing, Never more evident than in the multitude of AI problems in 2.3. But I'm learning quick, and mostly through trial and error. If you really want to learn it... Start by doing it. ;)

My experience in Navmeshing went to total failure when i tried to navmesh Falaise Pocket and Totalize out of nothing. The generator did automatically generates navmesh, hence the "green AI path mesh" shows all over the maps when viewed in Editor and the creation of .qtr files. I was influenced by Winterhilf in this.

Then i tried to modify bot-weapon interaction by altering some of its values like "only fire when prone" (which known to cause crash). LegionDCX really inspires me in his work in improving the AI by modifying this aspect.

But when I load the map in FH2, it crashes after 62%. Never knew what happened, so now i stick to modifying strategies, like changing SA neighborings, waypointing over "interesting path" (e.g. shallow water fording, thin bridges, etc). But then like heaven send, void appeared and seems like job's done.

All i can do best now is testing them maps... i did learn a bit of C, C#, and Java, so learning Python won't really take me from the real basics.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 12-11-2010, 22:11:40
Quote
All i can do best now is testing them maps... i did learn a bit of C, C#, and Java, so learning Python won't really take me from the real basics.

Python would be good. We need an army of code hackers to go after the double-cap bug. I still think you should consider learning SAI coding too. The only thing hard about it is that it is a different scripting paradigm - it isn't really procedural programming, and it certainly isn't object oriented either.

In other off-topic news, I am tentatively announcing possible improvements with bot behavior in general thanks to a modified / corrected (call it what you will) AIBehaviors.ai file. Furthermore, I've changed the specific AI in the M4A1 and Crusadermk3 tanks, and they seem to navigate much better. I would still need an FH2 veteran to test this to really find out if I have improved anything.

Wandering back on topic, I'm seeing 13 downloads of ESAI:FH2 v2.0 at the time of this writing. Anyone have any results to share? Good news? Bad News? Hit me people...
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Devilman on 13-11-2010, 00:11:47
Then i tried to modify bot-weapon interaction by altering some of its values like "only fire when prone" (which known to cause crash).

I have never ever heard of that line of code,causing crashes
It has been used on many weapons,by many mods for many years without any known problems

It will pop up in debug mode as an error,but is acceptable

You should also check if the AI template calls for this,(not sure what happens if the below code isnt inserted,or if another firing pose is used,regarding bots only)

Quote
weaponTemplate.setFiringPose Lying
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 00:11:30
Quote
Ok, I think I'm doing something wrong. I now realize I'm not getting the ESAI experience at all. Commanders still send troops to uncaps, forces don't move in with significantly more aggression....

This still going on Djinn? (Heh, didn't realize there was an "ESAI experience", but that's cool.)

Make sure you add all the files from the \ESAI\MapFiles\fh2\[mapName]\[gameMode]\ folder to your server.zip. My code depends on both the Strategies.ai files as well as the StrategicAreas.ai files. (Plus Mareth Line has my modified GPO as well).

If everything is setup right and you are still getting orders to uncaps in one of the seven maps with custom SAI, then I have some debugging to do.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Devilman on 13-11-2010, 00:11:48
@ Void
if your upload speed permits it
why dont you add your files to each maps server rar file
then add them (server rar into map name folder) into a levels folder
much easier for to install
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 01:11:58
Well, I could do that, but I thought that cannonfodder had already taken care of it. I noticed a new ESAI section in his D/L sticky, and it had a link to a collection of pre-patched server.zips, ready to go for ESAI:FH2 2.0.

As long as cF patched the files correctly, which I'm sure he did, all should be good. For now I'll just add a link to his sticky in the ESAI:FH2 Release thread.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Gemini on 13-11-2010, 01:11:23
Hello guys,

first thing I wanna say is that I really, really appreciate all the work you guys do on this website. I've been playing FH for about 2 weeks now, and following the website for about the same time.

I love it!! excellent work!

especially this thread has got my attention. Love it you guys upgrading AI and so far the result looks really good! So please, keep up the good work!

Like I said, I'm really a newbie on FH/BF2 and maybe I'm missing something here, but is there somewhere some file that lets me update all maps at once? Or some place where I can find all 'updates' considering ESAI together?

For some reason my laptop started trippin so needed to reinstall FH. Bummer...

really... keep up the good work!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Gemini on 13-11-2010, 01:11:14
omfg....  I really feel like some weird ass fool when I, just after posting my reply, saw the thread: ESAI:FH2 Edition Releases...

never mind my question, but consider my reply as a compliment to your hard work!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 01:11:56
Quote
'm really a newbie on FH/BF2 and maybe I'm missing something here, but is there somewhere some file that lets me update all maps at once? Or some place where I can find all 'updates' considering ESAI together?

Looks like we need to get more organized...

EDIT: Looks like I need to get more organized. All (proper) ESAI:FH2 downloads now live in the "official" ESAI:FH2 Releases thread.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Gemini on 13-11-2010, 01:11:32

Looks like we need to get more organized...

Anyway, cannonfodder has a section in his Download Sticky (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=6539.0) for ESAI:FH2. In the ESAI section, you will find a link to the latest version of ESAI. You will also find a link to a collection of pre-patched server.zips ready to be used with ESAI.

I know, read my previous post! sorry!

but for some reason I'm not able to download: ESAI_mapfiles_1.rar... mediafire wont let me...
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Devilman on 13-11-2010, 01:11:52
Well, I could do that, but I thought that cannonfodder had already taken care of it. I noticed a new ESAI section in his D/L sticky, and it had a link to a collection of pre-patched server.zips, ready to go for ESAI:FH2 2.0.

Yep,your right,never noticed it  :-[

http://www.mediafire.com/file/p8woro47h9457tj/ESAI_mapfiles_1.rar
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 01:11:14
EDIT:

I f--ked up ESAI:FH2 v2.0 a little bit. Refer to the ESAI:FH2 Releases thread to d/l the proper files.

Sorry again to everyone, especially to cannonfodder.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Gemini on 13-11-2010, 02:11:52
Done! thanks a lot! I'm going to try them now!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 02:11:40
Problem!

I didn't pack ESAI:FH2 2.0 correctly - I left out the StrategicAreas.ai file for Supercharge 64, and I didn't organize the files for that map by game mode.

If any of you are getting crap CO orders on Supercharge, that would be the reason why.

Shit!

I'm sorry all.

Looks like I need to release a corrected package, which I am about to do. ESAI:FH2 v2.0.1 I guess... damn.

cF, I will save you re-uploading a correct set of pre-patched map archives and compile them myself. I'll post the link after I up them.

Correction coming ASAP.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 03:11:07
Ok, I've corrected my mistake. ESAI:FH2 is now at version 2.0.1. I've compiled the pre-patched server archives as promised, and have them uploaded to filefront.

I'm going to link to both in the ESAI:FH2 Release thread.

cF, could you just replace your links with a reference to my release thread in your D/L sticky? I will take responsibility for uploading new ESAI versions, as well as pre-patched map archives.

That will let me make corrections faster if I need to in the future, and may help keep my head out of my ass before I make a release to begin with.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 13-11-2010, 07:11:46

It will pop up in debug mode as an error,but is acceptable

You should also check if the AI template calls for this,(not sure what happens if the below code isnt inserted,or if another firing pose is used,regarding bots only)

Quote
weaponTemplate.setFiringPose Lying

I tried to modify Boys AT rifle so bots will immediately go prone instead of wandering around with his AT rifle when he sees enemy. But when i modify them, it sends back the error message. However, since the "value" of the weapon against human was downed below the revolver, they will immediately switch to the revolver when sees human enemy. But when he sees tank/vehicles, here comes the difficult part, the bots more often rush towards it holding sticky bombs instead of go prone and start shooting AT rounds. It seems several weapons has a kind of "range limit" but his mostly are disregarded. So AT rifles are never effectively used by the AI.

Back to topic.

The latest ESAI (esp ver 2.0) seems to have positive effects in most maps you modified, especially in Goodwood and Villers-Bocage. Right now, the fight is more balanced, playing for both sides were never any better than this. Let's say on Goodwood, using default AI, we would better off playing as Britain to seek for challenge. As their offensive more than often stalled rather easily.

Now, both sides face more various degree of adversary, which is fascinating. Sometimes the Germans are too slow for a while (due to bots poor navigating capability - discuss this in other thread). But then they counter attack as swift as they can using whatever resources they have to make the round more interesting for the British. Cagny is now an important battleground instead of "just another CPs", since both sides fight ferociously over this territory as it should have.

Gazala is improving, especially for the Germans, they are now at least, able to bleed the Brits by capping the Knightsbridge. They used to lose the game the entire time, but now they managed to beat the Britain several times.

Lebisey, the British bots are indeed smarter, they attack and cap without hesitation (which bleeds them many tickets). But their attack aren't just aggressive enough for the German tanks to spawn at their main base. So it end up being the Germans getting massacred when trying to recap their lost position in vain. Until the British advanced a bit and capturing at least one CP, the Germans then could regain their position by the additional Panzers that spawned to the condition.

Overall, ESAI does it job by balancing the game between both sides. My argument of defensive bots > offensive bots are now not entirely true. The Brits won at Lebisey last time I checked, despite me playing as the Germans. When they owned the AT positions, they use the PaK guns and mortars against us, which is quite frustrating.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Devilman on 13-11-2010, 08:11:08
I tried to modify Boys AT rifle so bots will immediately go prone instead of wandering around with his AT rifle when he sees enemy. But when i modify them, it sends back the error message. However, since the "value" of the weapon against human was downed below the revolver, they will immediately switch to the revolver when sees human enemy. But when he sees tank/vehicles, here comes the difficult part, the bots more often rush towards it holding sticky bombs instead of go prone and start shooting AT rounds. It seems several weapons has a kind of "range limit" but his mostly are disregarded. So AT rifles are never effectively used by the AI.

Feel free to start a new thread,if you want further assistance/information,regarding the above
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 08:11:23
Quote
The latest ESAI (esp ver 2.0) seems to have positive effects in most maps you modified, especially in Goodwood and Villers-Bocage

Yeah! I logged about 16 hours of work on Goodwood alone- I certainly hope it is improved. Villers-Bocage I didn't have to spend as much time on. but I'm glad it is better too.

Quote
Cagny is now an important battleground instead of "just another CPs", since both sides fight ferociously over this territory as it should have.

Yeah! That was the idea when writing the SAI - to make the city the most important bit of territory. The Brits and Jerry have different approaches (strats) to taking it, but it is supposed to be priority for both sides.

Quote
Gazala is improving, especially for the Germans, they are now at least, able to bleed the Brits by capping the Knightsbridge. They used to lose the game the entire time, but now they managed to beat the Britain several times.

How can I make it better? Do the Germans always get stalled at Knightsbridge?

Quote
Lebisey, the British bots are indeed smarter, they attack and cap without hesitation (which bleeds them many tickets). But their attack aren't just aggressive enough for the German tanks to spawn at their main base....

Don't quite get you here. Could you try to clarify?

Quote
... So it end up being the Germans getting massacred when trying to recap their lost position in vain. Until the British advanced a bit and capturing at least one CP, the Germans then could regain their position by the additional Panzers that spawned to the condition.

Which position / CP do the Germans unsuccessfully try to recapture in Lebisey? I might be able to improve that. It is challenging to write SAI code and also take into account conditonal Panzer spawns.

Quote
Overall, ESAI does it job by balancing the game between both sides....

That, my friend, is the ultimate goal. Equal opportunity for both sides to win, and a good firefight in between.

Quote
... My argument of defensive bots > offensive bots are now not entirely true. The Brits won at Lebisey last time I checked, despite me playing as the Germans. When they owned the AT positions, they use the PaK guns and mortars against us, which is quite frustrating.

Heh, glad I could write some SAI code to frustrate, that is, challenge you. It is a bit unusual for the side with humans on it to lose.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 13-11-2010, 08:11:15
@djinn: Try Siege of Tobruk...the Allied CO continuously spams most, if not all, squads to defend the main until zee Germans take a flag. When ESAI is working you won't get that nonsense.

@Void: No worries mate, shit happens... :)

I better go update the sticky.

I tried Villers and it plays great. Although, and I'm not complaining, it tends to fall into a pattern, with the 88 stopping the Allies from quickly crossing the river.

By the time enough of them to pose a threat get across the water, zee German armour rolls in, and straight over them, and takes the Farm.

Then Allies take out the tanks, retake the Farm and try to cross the river again... :)

I did notice quite a few halftracks getting stuck at the bridges because they were trying to take too tight a turn onto it.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 13-11-2010, 09:11:32
Quote
Quote
... My argument of defensive bots > offensive bots are now not entirely true. The Brits won at Lebisey last time I checked, despite me playing as the Germans. When they owned the AT positions, they use the PaK guns and mortars against us, which is quite frustrating.

Heh, glad I could write some SAI code to frustrate, that is, challenge you. It is a bit unusual for the side with humans on it to lose.

When we were overwhelmed by a "too good" positions, I think any human players couldn't just win without the proper bot support.  ;)  Try FH1 Stalingrad maps. Play as Russian and climb the hills against German MG42 positions, that would be just too difficult.

Those MP-goers would like to taste how is it like to be pwned by a good AI. This guy (bot named Y. Pasholok (Taranov), one of the FH2 developers) manned a PaK40 on Center AT Position and raped us a lot of times. Finally I killed him using lucky rifle-grenade shot. But we were lost since we bled too many tickets already.

Quote
Gazala is improving, especially for the Germans, they are now at least, able to bleed the Brits by capping the Knightsbridge. They used to lose the game the entire time, but now they managed to beat the Britain several times.

How can I make it better? Do the Germans always get stalled at Knightsbridge?

Gazala main problem is that most of its CPs are located deep within mined perimeter, which requires motorist bots to abandon their vehicle and walk on foot to fight for the flag. Now bots can capture 150th box without leaving their vehicles by camping on the east side of 150th box (where the CP's vehicles spawned). But it gets difficult to recapture since huge waves of bots keep spawning there. Only coordinated air attacks would have the chance to do something with the defending bots, in order for the attacking bots to cap the CP.

Knightsbridge position is too deep, the Germans could only hold it for a while before being outgunned by British tanks.

The problem is that the bots, after advancing deep within, they soon forgot to spawn from their mainbase and bring their big guns to the frontline. Instead, they spawned on the front trying to vainly defend their position against armors, halftracks, trucks, using their handheld weapons.

Quote
Quote
Lebisey, the British bots are indeed smarter, they attack and cap without hesitation (which bleeds them many tickets). But their attack aren't just aggressive enough for the German tanks to spawn at their main base....

Don't quite get you here. Could you try to clarify?

Quote
... So it end up being the Germans getting massacred when trying to recap their lost position in vain. Until the British advanced a bit and capturing at least one CP, the Germans then could regain their position by the additional Panzers that spawned to the condition.

Which position / CP do the Germans unsuccessfully try to recapture in Lebisey? I might be able to improve that. It is challenging to write SAI code and also take into account conditonal Panzer spawns.

In Lebisey, the Brits normally cap all 3 AT positions (west-center-east), it makes the Germans bleed and spawn tanks. Before ESAI, it take them a lot of time to finally cap any of the AT positions.

Now, they with the help of their tanks can easily overrun our defense in AT positions and cap all 3 of them early on. However, despite bleeding the Germans, the Panzers won't spawn until 4 CPs are captured by the British. The fight is too fierce perhaps, man-on-man fights, British tanks are knocked out by Panzerfausts or explosives, both German and British couldn't gain any significant positioning to win over any other.

In several rounds, they managed to breakthrough East AT and secured Lebisey HQ. And spawned 1 x Tiger I tank, 1 x Panzer IV H, and 1 x Panzer III N on "Road To Caen" (German main base).

I think you already know that Goodwood also has tank spawning conditions. The German "super obliterator" King Tiger will spawn only after both Cagny positions are capped by the Brits.

I tried Villers and it plays great. Although, and I'm not complaining, it tends to fall into a pattern, with the 88 stopping the Allies from quickly crossing the river.

By the time enough of them to pose a threat get across the water, zee German armour rolls in, and straight over them, and takes the Farm.

Then Allies take out the tanks, retake the Farm and try to cross the river again... :)

I did notice quite a few halftracks getting stuck at the bridges because they were trying to take too tight a turn onto it.

This is the "balance" i'm talking about. The bridges might be troublesome for the bots to cross smoothly.

Villers is a bit more "manageable" for human players, because their attacks mainly come from one direction. The bots rarely use northern bridges and go directly to Tilly-sur-Seulles, confusing the human player trying to attack the Point 213 or defending the Farm (the most common battlegrounds).

In contrast, Lebisey is chaotic, 3 attacking waves, heading for 2 targets. A single human player can only choose to defend one. Thus, human player losing here is a bit less unusual  ;D
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 13-11-2010, 10:11:27
Yeah it's a "good balance", human players aside, neither side has any distinct advantage over the other.

And if you let the bots play the round by themselves, I reckon there wouldn't be much between them at the end.

To suggest the defensive positions on zee German side of the river are effective, is somewhat of an understatement... :P

I tried going the long way (north) but the 88 got me every time.

I found it was easier to just run the gauntlet to Villers on foot. Although it's not easy due to all the greenery in the way.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-11-2010, 20:11:59
cF,zM,Djinn: thanks for all the testing and feedback since I showed up around here.

So far, sounds like we are making progress, though a few things may need touching up.

I'll let this thread hopefully collect some more feedback before I decide what to work on next. (I'm still playing with FH2 tank AI anyway, and also doing some work on the upcoming BFHeroes:BF2 conversion mod).

As I write this, v2.0.1 has 11 downloads, and the corrected ESAI map pack has 4.

Come on now, unknown ladies and gentlemen who have tried this out...let's hear it. Bugs ? Improvements ? Problems? Epic Fail ? Post yer comments please!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 14-11-2010, 05:11:52
Lebisey is so much fun... :)

One thing I noticed was, once the 3 AT flags are taken, zee Germans mostly tend to spawn up near the Church, very few spawn at the HQ(?).

Although this isn't really a drama as the 88 tends to prevent the Brits from taking it easily.

Regarding BFHeroes:BF2, it's a stupid question, but will you need BFH to run it?

And how far away is it?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 14-11-2010, 05:11:14
Off Topic:

The BFHeroes:BF2 mod won't require BFH to run. I've been beta testing/helping a little in development, and it is a really cool mod (else I wouldn't waste my time with it, heh.)

I think Apache Thunder (the head dev) will be ready to release soon. Right now I'm helping him recode the BFH vehicles he has ported in so they will work under BF2, and am also working on the vehicle AI. Not sure when it will all be ready, but it will be released sooner than later.

Back on topic:

Glad you like Lebisey. I spent a lot of time on the code. I'll take your comment about Germans not spawning at the base enough into consideration however. I'm sure I can improve that aspect of the tactics a little.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 14-11-2010, 06:11:41
8)

Off-topic: Awesome. I thought it may have been a case of, like SF, needing to have BFH (for the level files) to run it.

I'll have to keep my eye out for it... :)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 20-11-2010, 00:11:27
Hello again everybody,

With all due respect to everyone at this forum...

It's been about a week since my last post, and it seems that this thread has gone cold. At the time of this writing, ESAI:FH2 has been downloaded 40 times, and the pre-patched map set about 30 times.

I'm not looking for a pat on the back here. What I would really love to know is if I have any kind of user base, or if people are merely trying this out and then deleting it.

Or in other words, I've finished up for now what I was doing with the other mod I mentioned and am trying to find out if this project warrants further development, now that I have time.

So to all the lurking ESAI:FH2 users out there (if there are any) - please, post your feedback. Good, bad, whatever.... just tell me something people.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 20-11-2010, 01:11:56
Sorry about that. Yep, this is what I have to deal with. You get people asking for SP support, sometimes asking for the LIST of fricking SP supported maps, so there definitely are lurkers, but unless cF, zM or myself post, the entire SP section sleeps

I decided not to go on posting replies cuz I can't hold this up by myself. The lurkers need to step out too, rather than just DLing and playing and expecting everything to get good.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 20-11-2010, 04:11:03
Long time no see Djinn. Yeah, as much as I appreciate the feedback you,cF,and zM have been giving me, I truly need to get an idea of how many folks are actually using ESAI:FH2.

I have no problem with improving the maps with custom SAI, and with eventually developing custom SAI for all FH2 SP supported maps, but I'm not going to do it for just 3 people. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but each map takes much effort.

I logged 29 hours of total work just on Operation Goodwood, if you count all the testing. That plugin alone is just as complex as the ESAI core.

This project is not "fan" work. I like FH2, but I am not a "fan". This project is a complex Strategic AI package that I feel deserves some kind of feedback, even if said feedback is negative.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 20-11-2010, 05:11:55
IMHO, the best ESAI experience is in Villers-Bocage, Lebisey, and then Goodwood.

At Goodwood, we know there is still tendency of some bots to drive their tanks out of bounds (Combat Area) when they cannot breakthrough the underpass or railroad bridge. I tried to partially fix this (post in other thread).
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: rd.king on 20-11-2010, 06:11:06

All your hard work on Goodwood is wasted if the german tanks never cross the railway.
the work on mareth line is a wonderful inprovement it plays great I personally don't like the map
but you have made it quite playable.
The changes to luttich make for a very good battle.
On the whole your work shows promise for FHsp and I am thankful.
but from what I have noticed the 2.3 patch has done more damage than good for FHsp.
In 2.3 the axis bots seem much less intent on action than past builds so the EASI is handicapped
by a weak game.
I have found when playing the maps in testing with and without EASI that although the EASI game has far more activity they don't have as much productivity ( no decisive wins just attrition )

Are you working for just three people I don't think so, but giving feedback is often recieved as bitching so many will sit by and wait rather than risk insulting the people doing the hard work that benefits us all.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: mutley on 20-11-2010, 08:11:29
I think you'll find many people are enjoying ESAI, albeit silently - am sure each time you have released a new version, an increasing number of downloads are registered.  I view this as the only real way we'll get these maps playing to their fullest extent; maps like El Al are brilliant but suffer from issues with the ebb and flow of the battle, Luttich  has seen real improvements, etc.

I registered just now to voice my support, although have been one of the silent majority on this board for over two years.  I say continue, many are gaining real enjoyment with the project.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 20-11-2010, 10:11:11
Say it ain't so... :(

I thought I'd go and bang the ESAI drum in the 'General' section...maybe that'll wake a few more up to this essential fix/mod for SP... ;)

- http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=12584.0

Siege of Tobruk is awesome... :)

Frontline flags changed hands numerous times (all 3), but zee Germans never broke through. Probably due to the flag problem at the Axis main interrupting the flow of tanks...or maybe it was just the awesome Aussie defence... ;D

The LeFH absolutely hammers the flag on the left...but then the arty in general is awesome on this level.

Zee Germans bled for almost the entire round and put up a great fight, but it ended 16-0 in our favour.

And I completely forgot about Luttich, I better go check it out.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 20-11-2010, 10:11:26
Like Void said. If you have DLed this, see yourself as a Beta Tester. Its about 'constructive criticism'. We need this. Drawde isn't active any longer, Remick is too busy on the next Fh2 version to help around here, so Void is what we got. And its perfect timing too. We had AI worked on prior to 2.3, Navmeshing done for every map, and now we do the 3rd layer - Strategy.

All we ask is for you, whoever you are who plays Singleplayer, to give back to the community.

AI in Fh2 has gotten to where it is on the back of people who gave up their precious time to help the rest of the community. NONE of them were official devs - We did NOT have an official dev at the time:
/Bizness was never a fully-instated dev, but FH2 did not start its life without AI thanks to him
/Winterhilf was not a dev when he gave us most of his work
/Remick_04 was not a dev when he started working on navmeshing so many wonderful maps
/Drawde was never a dev when started radically improving AI in FH2
/Legion was not a dev when he begun work on AI and tank motion
/CannonFodder is not a dev, and yet it is from his work and thread that any Singleplayer DL sees the light of day
/Neither Zoomotorpool nor myself is a dev
/Void is not even a long time fan, or fan for that matter and he's here working his ass off for all of us.

So please, before we loose all this work being done to improve game-play, come out and simply give us feedback on the mod so far

thanks

ps. Do you guys even recall what AI was in Fh2 before 2.3? Tanks wont even fire at infantry, and German tanks reversed more than moved forward. Trust me, it has improved... Drastically
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: SavageCDN on 20-11-2010, 18:11:32
First let me thank Void, djinn, zoo, cf...all those who are working to improve SP.

Second with regards to the bots in 2.3 - yes they are much improved and much more deadly especially with fixed weapons and mortars/arty.

As far as feedback goes... are there areas you are specifically looking for players to comment on?  I will dedicate some time to SP but should I be focusing on something specific or just fire up some maps and see how she goes?

Thanks.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 20-11-2010, 19:11:25
Quote
As far as feedback goes... are there areas you are specifically looking for players to comment on?  I will dedicate some time to SP but should I be focusing on something specific or just fire up some maps and see how she goes?

it is already apparent that there are enough people interested in this to continue development.

At the moment, I mainly just want to know what, if any, differences are noted when playing SP/COOP with ESAI enabled on the maps I did custom SAI for. Given one of the posts above, I am also looking to find out more about tank behavior in Op. Goodwood.

Basically, if the game play of a map changes at all, for better or worse, I would be interested to know. I've never thought that my existing code could not be improved. For next ESAI:FH2 I was planning on adding just a couple more maps, and revamping some things about the ones I have already done.

I need such feedback because I don't spend much time "on the ground" when I code this stuff. When testing I usually watch the bots on the overhead map, to see what the armies are doing as a whole.

Without such feedback, I am at a dead end with respect to what to try and improve.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 20-11-2010, 19:11:39
Bots are known to hesitate when crossing narrow streets or overgrowth or ditches.

I've done two simple things:

Changing values in ai.ai

aiPathfinding.setActiveMap Vehicle
aiPathfinding.map.maxSlope (28)
aiPathfinding.map.addVehicleForClusterCost Tank
aiPathfinding.map.addVehicleForClusterCost ArmedCar

Changing values in aipathfinding.ai

aiPathfinding.createMap Vehicle
aiPathfinding.map.maxSlope (20)
aiPathfinding.map.headClearance (3.5)
aiPathfinding.map.radius 2.5
aiPathfinding.map.allowedHeightDiff (5)

And at least, in my PC they successfully do this in Goodwood:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/th_GoodwoodHanomagdriverpass.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/?action=view&current=GoodwoodHanomagdriverpass.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/th_GoodwoodPanthersees2Sherman.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/?action=view&current=GoodwoodPanthersees2Sherman.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/th_GoodwoodPanthercrossedrailroad-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/?action=view&current=GoodwoodPanthercrossedrailroad-1.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/th_Pz4successfullycrossunderpass.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/?action=view&current=Pz4successfullycrossunderpass.jpg)

I dunno if this is the result i should have expected when increasing the encased () values.

The hanomag in first pic, finally crosses the underpass smoothly with little hesitation. The Goodwood Panther drive through the railway now, they don't reverse and forward too many times. Lastly, the Panzer 4 was shown to be able to cross the underpass too, not only the hanomag!

Regarding Goodwood.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 20-11-2010, 23:11:06
Yeah, don't know how I missed zM's thread about the Goodwood tanks. So it seems to be a problem beyond SAI.

Was just looking at Djinn's SP game play review topic. From that thread (emphasis mine):

Quote
Commander AI - 7/10

Remick did an excellent job making this work for 2.3, and this is the lynch-pin in the success story, especially for older maps that have been given a new lease on life - There are still some rough edges, most noted in defenders defending, but idling till one base is capped, but with shiny possibilities over the horizon, this aspect may yet see its best days

Someone give me an example of a couple of maps that have defenders defending pointlessly. Two maps say, and I will try to fix them. Between two new maps and some fine tuning of the ones I've already done, that should warrant a new release of ESAI:FH2.

But to mildly continue my bitching, I still need more feedback before I know what to fine tune...etc.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 08-02-2011, 18:02:07
I tried SP3 VillersBocage and the British tanks just bunch up at the hedgerows at main base.

:-\
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: aserafimov on 08-02-2011, 19:02:09
did you install remick's latest fix, which solved this problem?

--->here: http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=6539.0
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 08-02-2011, 19:02:26
Yeah, don't know how I missed zM's thread about the Goodwood tanks. So it seems to be a problem beyond SAI.

Was just looking at Djinn's SP game play review topic. From that thread (emphasis mine):

Quote
Commander AI - 7/10

Remick did an excellent job making this work for 2.3, and this is the lynch-pin in the success story, especially for older maps that have been given a new lease on life - There are still some rough edges, most noted in defenders defending, but idling till one base is capped, but with shiny possibilities over the horizon, this aspect may yet see its best days

Someone give me an example of a couple of maps that have defenders defending pointlessly. Two maps say, and I will try to fix them. Between two new maps and some fine tuning of the ones I've already done, that should warrant a new release of ESAI:FH2.

But to mildly continue my bitching, I still need more feedback before I know what to fine tune...etc.

oh dear, I didn't see this till now. Well, if you are still interested, all maps with defenders having all the cap-pable flags basically don't have orders till any base is capped. So where they spawn is where they stay. AJ54 was able to make them defend the frontline bases, meaning they put up a real fight for those first before falling back. That's the key here - active defense
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 08-02-2011, 20:02:04
Hello everyone,

I've been away for a while, but I am still interested in working with you guys to improve ESAI:FH2 Edition.

Honestly, I've been sick lately of BF2 in general and the ESAI project specifically, but I have recently started working on it again.

The main ESAI version is now at 4.1, though this I still consider to be beta version, and I am waiting for my testers to report their results with it. I've made some very big changes to the ESAI core code.

I was going to wait for more test results for 4.1 before porting the changes to ESAI over to the FH2 edition, but I could easily create a beta version for FH2 if any of you are interested in testing it.

To anyone who remembers it: my Vehicle AI mod died in a hard drive crash, and I'm not going to work on it anymore. I plan on focusing exclusively on ESAI when contributing to FH2 singleplayer/coop.

It seems there is still more to do. Today I will reinstall FH2; tommorow I will start writing some code.

Fun to be back....peace out.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 08-02-2011, 20:02:32
Void please do continue the development of this project as it makes the game alot more fun.

Also, will you be incorporating remick's fix into future versions?

I will be doing some more testing in the next few days as i will be on the road for work and unable to play FH2 online.

I'll be sure to post results here...

;)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Raziel on 09-02-2011, 08:02:00
Welcome back Void!   :)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 09-02-2011, 08:02:16
Hey Void, how's it hangin'?

I was gonna put my hand up when I saw your post at BFSP, but my next few weekends are already booked out and I haven't DL'ed the files for BFSP64 yet... :-\

If you need another tester though, send me a link to the 4.1 files and I'll reinstall BFSP64, DL the ESAI files for it, and squeeze in a few rounds during the week.

If I wasn't so lazy I'd go through all my BF2 (and mods) maps and figure out which ESAI strategy works best with each one...too bad there isn't a list somewhere that takes the guesswork out of it (nudge, nudge, ;), ;)).
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 15-02-2011, 19:02:43
Just a quick report:

ESAI:FH2 Edition will be updated soon. The changes will be based on "standard" ESAI v4.1. This version is still beta. I'm currently waiting on feedback from my beta testers before releasing 4.1, as well as incorporating the new code into the FH2 version of ESAI.

In other words, I'm still around. Peace out kids.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 05-05-2011, 05:05:25
So for 2.5, I'm guessing the new map additions/ changes are Supercharge, Lebisey, Goodwood and Siege of Tobruk

Will give this a try and see....

Welcome back, VOID! Nice to know you're still with us  ;)

Ok, I know you'd be moving on to another map after this. From the comments in the double-cap thread, I gather you wont want to do ESAI for maps with double-cap issues just yet. Although they may be fixed in the next build, they still exist in THIS one...

So suggestion for maps that could be tackled next,
Alam Halfa.
Map requires bots capping the first line bases first, then moving in on the left flank of the rear bases. Push forces players to only cap the right-rear base only when all others are capped, however, the two next to it can be capped in any order. Currently, AI does well pushing into the first line bases, but stalls after, since they try to cap the heavily defended main Brit base to no avail, making it a solo mission there on out...

Another map that would make top priority with ESAI is Mt. Olympus.
Now the fixed version of this map can be found  @ http://www.filefront.com/user/mydjinny otherwise the map CTDs preventing you from testing it...

Germans push into the British with vigor, but they get confused as to whether to focus all resources on the distant church or on the town. And after that, assault stalls rather than moving for the final cap-pable Brit base.

May I also suggest, if it wont be too much - although I think it will be quite a bit, while adding Ai strategy, could adjustments be made to the GameplayObjects.con file to have defending bots spawn on as many static defense positions as possible? i.e. from mg positions to mortar, to AT guns. Currently, some positions get used, but it doesn't create good enough defense and many positions, especially mg positions never get used at all...

AI should be such that, bots first and foremost defend with static defenses, with the remainder looking for vehicles or moving on foot to plug the holes. Adding spawns to all static positions will aid this greatly....

Great work again, and thanks so much... Will give prompt feedback by Saturday at the latest
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 05-05-2011, 06:05:58
I guess I'll start with Alam Halfa. I can't seem to find the Mount Olympus files in the link you posted. Could you clarify what I need to download to run MO?

No problem about editing the spawners, once I have a working copy of the map. I'll do that before digging into the AI.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 05-05-2011, 07:05:44
Edit- that image was just too big. Anyway....

"Double Cap" strikes again. Alam Halfa will have to wait.

I will start Mount Olympus when I get the proper files. Please submit more suggestions for work to do.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 05-05-2011, 09:05:33
Ok, I am uploading Olympus on Filefront as we speak. But i think Tunis is the next.

Now with Tunis, you might need to do with it something similar to what you did with the alternate Luttich.

Tunis in Conquest has an extra flag at the edge of the map. In COOP, that is simple a flank area, but not a flag zone. So you may need to put that flag in place and work it into the strategic areas. Tunis is an interesting concept because there are always 2 flags that can be taken at all times. So it offers interesting flank tactics, IF the defending axis force didn't feel the need to push all men to counter-attack a lost flag.

Will let you know when Olympus uploads completely...
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 05-05-2011, 17:05:03
Sounds good. I'm still drinking my morning coffee - can't get started until that is finished - but do want to start something up today rather than tomorrow. Will keep my eyes peeled for the upload.

Edit- I've taken a look at Tunis. I'm not sure if I should add the extra flag because the python code is already spitting out exceptions related to the Allied spawns. The combat area is also slightly different between the cq and coop versions of the map. Surely there must have been a reason for that.

I will load Tunis in the editor and see what the navmesh looks like. If I am lucky I might be able to expand the Combat Area slightly and work that flag in. We will see.

Edit2: Will Djinn, it was a good idea to add that flag, but it isn't going to happen. That part of the map isn't navmeshed at all. Check it out:

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9629/nomesh.png)

So, I suppose I will jump in and start writing SAI code for the map as it already is.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 05-05-2011, 22:05:59
Ok, I got the file uploaded - Sorry for the delay. I was so swarmed at work with... well, work. But here is the link to Mt. Olympus with 2.26 navmesh fix
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20302927/mount_olympus+w.+2.26+Nav.rar

I perfectly understand your point of view on the Tunis map. Still, its a clean map and a perfect opportunity for multiple attack options. Also pleae see if you can get the bots spawning on mgs. These are off their spawn area, specifically on walls, but as bots stay on mg positions till death, it wont matter. And it will make the gameplay more interesting than it currently is, with infantry using rifles, grenades and little more.

The new flag was introduced in 2.3, I think. They changed the map a bit to make it less of a meatgrinder. But since navmesh had already been done, they just left the old version for COOP and SP. I thought it was a simple expansion, but I guess the flanks dont go that far

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 05-05-2011, 23:05:47
No problem about the delay. I'm downloading MO now.

Not sure now which map I will do first. Most likely I will play a few rounds on them both and see which one needs the most help, and start there.

And yes, for both maps I will add AI spawns for the stationary weapons, as per your request.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 05-05-2011, 23:05:30
Glad to see development has restarted....

BTW...you guys should get on FH's Teamspeak.

;)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 06-05-2011, 00:05:11
@Void
Thanks man. Standing by for testing :)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 06-05-2011, 01:05:03
It will definitely be Mount Olympus first. This is my first look at the map, and I am really impressed with it. I'm afraid someone will get offended by my next comment, but I'll open my big mouth anyway to explain more why I'm starting with this map:

Mount Olympus already has a custom strategy living inside it. I don't know where it came from, and I do not mean any personal insult to its author, but it is not a good script. I found myself while playing as New Zealand being spammed orders to defend the Monastery at a point when it was under allied control, not under attack, and there were legitimate Axis flags to counterattack.

Anyone playing this map really should nuke the 'strategies.ai' file inside it, at least until I write something to replace it. You are better off with Vanilla strats than with the strategy included in the map.

But seriously, the objects/layout/look and feel/ETC are wonderful on this map. It might be my favorite so far, I dunno.

I will keep you guys posted on my progress with Mount Olympus. I don't want to rush such a nice map, so it may be a day or two before I have something up for testing.

oh, I downloaded Teamspeak. I've never used it before (I don't game online), but I will look into what it is all about later.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 06-05-2011, 01:05:56
It will definitely be Mount Olympus first. This is my first look at the map, and I am really impressed with it. I'm afraid someone will get offended by my next comment, but I'll open my big mouth anyway to explain more why I'm starting with this map:

Mount Olympus already has a custom strategy living inside it. I don't know where it came from, and I do not mean any personal insult to its author, but it is not a good script. I found myself while playing as New Zealand being spammed orders to defend the Monastery at a point when it was under allied control, not under attack, and there were legitimate Axis flags to counterattack.

Anyone playing this map really should nuke the 'strategies.ai' file inside it, at least until I write something to replace it. You are better off with Vanilla strats than with the strategy included in the map.

But seriously, the objects/layout/look and feel/ETC are wonderful on this map. It might be my favorite so far, I dunno.

I will keep you guys posted on my progress with Mount Olympus. I don't want to rush such a nice map, so it may be a day or two before I have something up for testing.

oh, I downloaded Teamspeak. I've never used it before (I don't game online), but I will look into what it is all about later.

Actually the spam is my fault. It had partially done script which was later fixed in a small patch. My version lacks that patch... This patch can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/djfvypp7pzutmhw/2.3SP_fixed_files.rar. Its part of fixes for that map, most of which you don't need, but the ai_strategy and ai_strategic areas, you might
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 06-05-2011, 01:05:37
Ah, that explains it. I thought the copy I had was fully updated. At any rate, the original strategies.ai file is going to be gone soon. Now I need to get my butt off this fine forum and get back to working with BF2Editor.

1,000 pardons for my previous comment.

Edit: No need to double post. Progress report:

I have finished the majority of the spawn point modifications. There are a few mortars I missed, but I will return to them after the ESAI plugin is completed. As with Mareth Line, I also reworked both teams airfield spawns to keep bots away from them unless there is an aircraft available.

I have sketched the battle plans I intend to implement, and have already written a rough draft of the code. By rough, I mean that the code exists in scrawled notes and diagrams living in my favorite loose-leaf notebook.

I will begin coding the plugin today.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 06-05-2011, 21:05:05
Always been the most efficient modder out there. You know me - I'm always impressed.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 06-05-2011, 21:05:59
Heh, I'm working as we speak. The axis strats are nearly complete, and they are finally able to take the town.

I thought I could get by with using the default ESAI strats for the allies, but I've found that they need special instruction also to obey the push order during their counterattack. Also need an allied defense strategy for round start, to try and get their armor moving north to meet the Germans.

I repeat myself, but I have to say I really like this level. Who made it?

Edit- I almost have this sucker ready for testing. Just need to fire up the editor again and make the final tweaks to the spawn points. The Church is still quite a hard point for the Germans to capture, but that may also be a reflection of my strategy design, which does for the most part consider it to be a secondary target.

Here is a screen of  a typical German offensive:

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9092/axisadvance.png)

The strong Axis presence at that northern flag is a result of the bots getting somewhat pinned down by the Allies coming out of the Monastery base, even though NZ isn't actively attacking that flag. I'm going to tweak the strats a bit to address this, in case anyone was wondering.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 07-05-2011, 01:05:06
I don't know for sure that this is finished, but I am pleased with how it is shaping up so far, and I'm ready to find out what you guys think of it.

Test kit includes ESAI:FH2 v2.6b (new as of today) and Mount Olympus pre-patched server.zip for both sp and coop 64 size game modes.

Get it here (http://" http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/void/fh2/Mount-Olympus-ESAI-TestKit.rar")

Testers will want to try more than one round I would think. The strategy is non-linear, i.e., the Germans have 3 different ways to launch their offensive at round start. You may see very different results from one round to the next. Or, you may not.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 07-05-2011, 12:05:15
Just tried it the first time. One problem jumps out instantly. Its not a BIG problem, but it does mean that it is an impossible level for Germans.

The Australians are given a command to defend the first base. For the first few minutes, it isn't a big issue, but then if the Germans don't cap that base in that time, it becomes a stronghold of no less than 30 Aussie bots, most wieliding SMGs as per their AI logic to defend against bots coming in at close quarters. The Germans on the other hand, come from range, most with rifles...

I think if the initial assault was split between that base and the tempe almost equally, Aussies will defend either and be more uniformly spread out.

There is also an oppotunity for a flanking maneouver since the base next in line also can be capped. This means, Germans can then cut off that first base if it initially proved too hard to cap, and deal with it peace-meal, since not all defending bots wil be spawning there, but coming from the rear bases.

I do like the fact that bots seem to use stationary positions alot more now, and the defend orders means, allied aircrafts are available for close air support from the get-go.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 07-05-2011, 15:05:49
Quote
I think if the initial assault was split between that base and the tempe almost equally, Aussies will defend either and be more uniformly spread out.

The axis initial attack is currently coded so that there is already a chance they might do this (strategy: axis_initialAttackC). I will make it so that they have to start this way every time, and will try broadening the defense order for the allies to include the church.

I'll post an update later today.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 07-05-2011, 19:05:52
k then...

Axis will now attack both the church and the north flag at round start, or at least they should do this 95% of the time.

Allies will now defend the church, the north flag, and the castle at round start.

No changes made to the map archive. Just download and install the ESAI update and the adjustments will be in place.

Here is ESAI:FH2 v2.6.1b: BFSP Link (http://"http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/void/fh2/ESAI-FH2-2.6.1b.rar")

I will take a moment to inform you guys that I have joined the dev team for a BF2 mod called BF2 Realism Mod. It is not huge like FH2 is, but nevertheless I will be dividing my time between this project and work on RM.

Unfortunately, if there are conflicts of interest the RM mod will be my priority, since I am an official dev. My work here is great fun and I do take it seriously, but it is still technically just "Fan Modding". Note that I am not threatening to disappear again! I will still work on as many FH2 maps as I have time for.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: mutley on 07-05-2011, 20:05:42
A much improved strategy in Olympus in ESAI 2.6 (not tried the 2.6b1 yet)

I would ask for more mortar action out on the northern plain for both allied and axis.  Nothing more fun than sprinting from cover to cover with explosions kicking off from left to right.  Allied armour is in thin supply relative to the axis panzer IVs.

I swapped a hurri b for a hurricane mk II d and added some 25pdrs / 3in mortars to the monastery and the forward spawn too - makes the axis rush over the over ground much more exciting!

really enjoy ESAI.  What's the setting of the RM mod - vanilla BF or something else?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 07-05-2011, 20:05:01
Hi there mutley,

Thanks for the feedback, it is very much appreciated. The strat changes in v 2.6.1b are minor, but were targeted specifically to address djinn's concerns about the game play. Please do snag the update and try it out.

I've already added AI spawns to every mortar I could find on the map, though I may have missed a few. Don't much know how else I can encourage bots to use them more.

RM is a modern warfare mod currently in development. A beta release is scheduled for sometime in August. If you want to learn more about it, you should check the project page on moddb. Let me go fetch the link...

Right right, here you go:  RM at Moddb  (http://"http://www.moddb.com/mods/realism-mod2")
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 07-05-2011, 20:05:11
So good to hear.

Will test this out and give feedback. Don't worry about the time-split. You are doing us all a big favor. Beggars can't be choosers. Besides, with the maps we already have with ESAI, I think we have much...erm... testing to do to keep us busy.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 07-05-2011, 22:05:58
Since we are on the subject, I'll go ahead and divulge that for RM, I am working on custom AI for a modified version of Gulf of Oman 64. I will need to finish that before I do my next FH2 level.

I know we kindof agreed that Tunis should be next, however, I visited the FH2 SP Bug Tracker Google code page yesterday, and saw an issue (#29) submitted about incorrect CO orders on Bardia 64. Consequently, I fired up FH2 and loaded the map.

I am a little confused, because the issue on the bug tracker made it sound like the typical problem found in most push mode maps. However, My FH2 install only has a 16 player version of Bardia, and it doesn't seem to have a push mode. (I could be wrong; I am tired).

Anyways, where is this 64 player version of Bardia that has the "Push" game mode?

I should like to make it my next FH2 target. If the AI commander on that map is buggered enough for someone to submit it as an issue, then I feel like it is worth my attention. A day's coding, and that is one issue at least that could easily have its status changed to "resolved".

Someone please advise.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 07-05-2011, 22:05:37
The official Bardia only has a 16size map. However, a beta done years ago - the 16-size of which is what you see ingame, exists here: http://www.filefront.com/user/mydjinny

It has the same link as the Olympus. It is however only SP, and not COOP. I would actually really appreciate it if you could tweak it so that it had COOP also - As I understand it, it is more of an instruction thing, than doing navmeshes from scratch for COOP
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 07-05-2011, 23:05:49
No problem adding coop support. I just did, actually.

Any map that supports SP will support Coop - you just have to add the gpo and \ai folders from the sp version to the gpm_coop folder, and then edit the level's \Info\(mapname.desc) file to point to the added mode.

I also opened up 'mapdata.py' to check the flag push order. What I found is that this map doesn't have a Push mode at all, so I am unsure now about the issue posted on the bug tracker. I'll check that later tonight if I get a chance.

So it is still up in the air regarding which map gets ESAI-d next, but I will start my next FH2 level soon. If I start working on Tunis rather than Bardia, I will go ahead and post the coop-enabled version of Bardia 64 for you guys to use in the meantime.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 08-05-2011, 22:05:46
I have worked on Bardia. I didn't feel like it needed a custom strategy as it seems a fairly straightforward map, and has no Push mode.

Here is what I changed:

- Fixed "Spawns of Death" at  Italian barracks  (64 size)
- Fixed Bot trapping spawns at Italian barracks (64 size)
- Corrected two-way neighbor to uncappable flag (64-size)
- Moved the Strategic Areas to the correct layer (64-size)
- Enabled Coop support (64 & 16 size)
- Hooked all SP and COOP game modes to ESAI
- Removed MD5 checksum file

16 player size is using ESAI default "smallMap" strategy set
64 player size is using ESAI user "smallFCA" strategy set

Get it Here (http://"http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/void/fh2/Bardia-16-64-SP-COOP-ESAI.rar")

The download is not a patch kit; it is the entire map (client/server/info). I may add it to a future ESAI:FH2 map pack release, but am waiting to finish Tunis before compiling next map pack.

Download, test, enjoy.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 08-05-2011, 23:05:04
DLing... Will give feedback once I play it. Its almost 10:00 here - so I think I will have to do this some time tomorrow.

Also noted something with Gazala. Firstly, great work on the maps. I note that, more than previous ESAI, the bots seem to respond to commander orders alot quicker - and strategy is clearer

However, Gazala's issue is that it should be a highly mechanized battle with infantry heavily mounted on armor, bailing at the flag and assaulting the boxes.

Its tricky since it relies on both bot AI and map strategy.

The former is out of our hands, but I'm wondering if we can't tweak ai strategy a bit. Currently, it seems that bots keep coming off the boxes. Perhaps the strategic areas need to be rebalanced a bit. The main force on both sides need to come from their main bases, while only small numbers of troops spawn at the bases. It would probably help if Gazala could have all static positions as spawns so that once the AA, AT guns and such are occupied, bots will be able to defend themselves without the need of roamers. That way, the battle will be between armor and static guns, with infantry bailing armor once it gets close to cap the flag.

Its a bit of theory, but with current strategic areas having infantry pouring off the capped box and moving at snail's pace to the next base - most invariably being cut down by the few armor they encounter, this theory might just make the gameplay more challenging - even for defenders.

But its not a big priority - as the map plays decently for the time being.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 09-05-2011, 01:05:39
Quote from: Djinn
However, Gazala's issue is that it should be a highly mechanized battle with infantry heavily mounted on armor, bailing at the flag and assaulting the boxes.

I'll have to take a look at the strategy for Gazala. A sufficient amount of time has elapsed for me to have forgotten the details of the code I wrote for it.

If bots are not bailing at the flags, the CP vehicle order positions might be in need of tweaking. I'll check it out when I get a chance.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 09-05-2011, 19:05:27
Hi all,

I've got ESAI listed at moddb now.

Edit:

Not sure if FH2 version needs to bee there yet.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 09-05-2011, 19:05:58
Link is bad.

Here is a good link:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/esai-enhanced-strategic-ai

;)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 11-05-2011, 18:05:37
Just a quick note to all the folks who are using my work:

I don't expect all of you to jump in and comment. I've learned better, lol. However, now that all my stuff is graciously hosted by BFSP, I have no way of knowing how many of you have downloaded anything I post on this board. Could be 100, could be 1. Only the battlefield singleplayer FTP admin knows for sure,and I'm not going to be bothering him to find out.

Therefore, I encourage anyone with negative / positive feedback to please post their experiences. This would help me get an idea of the size of the ESAI:FH2 user base, but more importantly it would help make ESAI:FH2 better.

Short version: The more you all put in to this, the more you all will get out of it.

peace.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 11-05-2011, 18:05:18
Tried your ESAI v2.5 in Goodwood.

They all run better, small bot behavior issues that were not ESAI issues, but overall the ESAI address this by giving them more direction.

Right now I can see more fights in Cagny, in changes hand so many times. Although I hate town fighting CQBs, but this is what the AI supposed to be, and this is near-perfect! Just awesome! I love how the Germans, being pressed by British armor, fought relentlessly until driven back to towns and killed the tankers one-by-one using up-close and personal explosive pack (like Gebalte Ladung) or Panzerfausts. It is very effective so far.

The nebelwerfer and British arty is working very well, the battlefield are kept alive by constant MG fire, arty shells, and rockets flying all over the place. This behavior could be influenced by ESAI making the conflict flowing smoothly. Previously, bots often wandered around and mindlessly prioritize themselves in attacking any objects they see first rather than obeying "capture flag" order. So battlefield was alive, but strategically mindless, as they only wanted to kill instead of securing objectives.

Thanks void, this is definitely a must-have addon for FH2 SP fans!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: hitm4k3r on 11-05-2011, 22:05:50
Hi. I also testes some ESAI Maps (and some with no ESAI). First I want to say thank you for this great work. I'am following this singleplayer project since  a long time ago, what was caused by the missing internet connection. Now I have internet, and mostly you can find me on the servers. But yesterday I thought, it was time to test something new. So lets come to my feedback:

Operation Goodwood (64): Best version of this map, I have ever played against AI. Nearly all static assets are used by the AI and the allied forces are using realy all assets. The only thing I got to admit. With this version the map is losing a bit of it's concept (mixture of tank and infantry warfare), what is caused by the fact, that Axis AI is not spwaning on tanks (what should prevent them from getting stucked at the bridges and railway, I guess).

Villers Bocage: Realy nice, after a time there i kind of stalemate situation. The only (dunno whether I should say) "negative" thing might me the strenght of the static mg 42 positions -> No human player can take this positions out, no matter what range. I'am speaking of infantry weapons (like snipers). They kill you straight over a very long range. I tried to snipe the mg on G2 from the church, it is impossible. I have to admit, that I am alway playing against the hardest bots :).

Operation Luttich: The new map layout with the additional flags is IMO better than the original one. It brings a better flow into the map and gives the americans the possibility not to get pushed back to fast. A good thing is, that nearly every area of the map gets "touched" with fight.

Mareth Line: I think this map is still too complex for human players, so it will be very hard to give it a good flow with AI. After taking the first 3 flags, the bots don't know, what to do. They are ignoring the command bunker, what can only be taken by 2 or more ppl. At this point the fight nearly stops.

Siege of Tobruk: One of my favorite maps in fh2 also in the good old days in bf 1942 (was the first bf map, I played :)). There is still the bug with the bots getting stucked in the tank at the axis main base flag. Also the allied bots should use all static assets to defend, otherwise it's to easy for the german. I played without the GPO files, so maybe this will help a lot.

So this was all about the ESAI testing I made. Also played Longues Sur Mer, what was realy nice. The Axis should maybe the beach a littlebit more. I testes the skirmish maps with AI. There is a lot of navmeshing needed. The bots get stuck on several objects (too many to show screenshots and give examples). Last but not least was Siege of Tobruk Night: Very Epic Battle with an immersive feeling caused by the bullet tracers. It is something, I have never experienced in a shooter before on this way. The devs should think about it, to take it in an official release.

So that was a lot of feedback, but I hope it will help you ;). And plz keep up the good work
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 11-05-2011, 23:05:11
Thanks for the feedback so far, it really is helpful. I would like to address one comment in particular:

Quote
Villers Bocage: Realy nice, after a time there i kind of stalemate situation. The only (dunno whether I should say) "negative" thing might me the strenght of the static mg 42 positions -> No human player can take this positions out, no matter what range.

Please people - constructive criticism, or what 5hitm4k3r has called "negative" feedback, is a good thing. I will not lie - I am always pleased when someone is happy with my work and says something nice about it, and such comments are good for the old motivation factor. However, mature criticism and analysis shows me where I can make improvements, and there is always room for improvement I think.

I still don't play FH2 on the ground nearly as much as I watch the bots traverse the overhead map, so I rely on your "reports from the front" to get a feel for how I have changed the game play.

No one should be afraid to post negative feedback. I'm an adult; I will not be upset in the slightest.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 11-05-2011, 23:05:11
Well, Villers is a pain in ass for real with mg positions - Add my GPO and it becomes even MORE of a pain with more static AT positions than awkward mobile AT guns

but for the church mg, and this is a small piece from the Ultimate Guide I haven't yet decided to make - You need to cross the river near the low wall when the army makes it main assault. There may be scary close shots from mg, even HE and shooters, but you do it. Don't bother engaging the church mg, or he WILL return fire.....

Go along that diagonal buff to his left where he only gets a few seconds to hit you. Take out the trench mg. You can get him at close range before he sees you... then flank the church...

By this time, you squad should all be dead, and will spawn on you somewhere near the mortar at earliest. They will then make their way to take the church and can take out the church mg from close range - or you can climb up and drop a sachel

ALL maps, more so with AI, have a number of paths that work - They aren't cheats, and it does rely heavily on luck and skill in moving from cover to cover - But each map has a a way.

In Mareth, on either side, you need to break that stalemate - leading the offensive. Bots will often have difficulty taking Mareth. You need to tip those odds. Once it falls, a quick assault on the town (Not Gabe), will allow you to springboard to the gap and finally to Gape where the real slogfest begins....

Many of these are real world tactics - Not just with you as an inidividual, but with you leading the battle. I never play commander, but it does work if a smart squad leader can exploit opportunities, be it poor defenses of an otherwise well-defended area, a flank situation, or a major army pushfoward, in order to focus the enemy AI else where...

It worked in 42, but it works like a charm in FH2...
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Zoologic on 12-05-2011, 04:05:47
On Goodwood particularly though. The German AI still can't cross the railroad freely, their armor isn't just there to help when it spawned.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: hitm4k3r on 12-05-2011, 11:05:19
@djinn: I know, that it is possible to take out the church mg easily, especialy from the sides or the rear. That was not the point, I wanted to mention ;). What I meant, was the situation, that you can shoot the mg gunner down from a long distance with a sniper rifle for example, as it is mostly possible in multiplayer against humans. To have this against bots, would make it feel better I think. Maybe you can add a time space, until the AI starts to fire with the mg. This would give you a chance, to look out from the cover for a short time and try a single shot. To set up such a time would give you a little chance but also punish you, when you try tu run over the open field. A think that came to my mind about Villers was the fact, that the Allied Forces aren't trying to flank the germans over the flanks (in this case the bridges) -> I guess, thats the reason for the stalemate.

About Mareth I have to say, that I played as a Squadmemder, just to see, whether the battle gets her own dynamic (just by the AI) and without the initiative of me as a human player. And as I mentioned, there was the problem, that the Allied forces didn't really recognice the command bunker. And at this point the battle stopped. I mostly maned a plane in this round.

I think I will try your GPO files next week, Djinn, when I have some more. I think that's, what is missing a bit on siege of tobruk. I remember  the time, I played it with the AIvehicletweaks.zip and the other tweak-file (don't know the name) a long time ago. This battle realy got her own dynamic and felt just awesome.

I got the question about the AIvehicleTweak.zip in your upload section Djinn: Do they have an influence, when I place them in the mod folder? I think I need the init.con or another additional file. With other words, can I use them to improve the gameplay in singleplayer/ are they working with the ESAI?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 12-05-2011, 17:05:31
Quote
I got the question about the AIvehicleTweak.zip in your upload section Djinn: Do they have an influence, when I place them in the mod folder? (SNIP).... With other words, can I use them to improve the gameplay in singleplayer/ are they working with the ESAI?

ESAI will work with any other FH2 AI tweaks you might find, so long as you are not trying to use something that involves Strategic AI code. As far as I can tell there are very few people still writing SAI Scripts, and I haven't seen any such projects targeted at FH2.

I'm not the only person around that knows how to write Strategic AI Scripts,but I may be the last person actually doing it. Really I am not sure about that - it would be great to meet someone still working in this area, because it would be nice if the ESAI dev team expanded to have more than one member.

If there are any SAI coders lurking about, feel free to contact me if you would like to be a part of the ESAI project.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-05-2011, 02:05:58
EDIT: Ignore This Post

Today I discovered someone redistributing ESAI Standard Edition for profit. {insert profanity}  If you know anything at all about this project, you know that is strictly forbidden. It is the only thing you can't do with my work.

The persons responsible have been dealt with. ;)

Nevertheless I felt compelled to remove all download links to ESAI standard. It will be back as soon as possible.

ESAI:FH2 Edition will still be available for download, as no one has yet tried to use it to scam people out of their money.

Be advised that the above could change without notice.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Raziel on 13-05-2011, 07:05:17
Yeah you do that Void!! FXXKing Scammers!!!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Michael Z Freeman on 13-05-2011, 09:05:15
Then don't use GPL. That allows selling of code as long as open sourced code is packaged.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-05-2011, 10:05:22
I have decided to just give up on trying to protect it legally. There are issues with EA technically owning the rights to any BF2 material anyway.

No need for me to further derail this topic..

As you were people. I'll try and post a new map in the next day or two. ESAI:FH2 or ESAI Standard isn't going anywhere. Nothing to see here, move along.

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: hitm4k3r on 13-05-2011, 14:05:27
If I could, I would help you. But, and this is a very big BUT, I haven't realy got any idea about AI scripting. The only way and the best way is to test your work. So if you want me to test some stuff, please give me something new. I will see what I can do, but I can start with testing next week, because I have no time at the weekend.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 13-05-2011, 20:05:04
Thanks for your willingness to help out, I really do appreciate it.

Anything beta will be posted in this thread. Keep your eyes peeled; I'm working on something now. Should be up in the next day or so.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 18-05-2011, 02:05:03
Ok, so I tried it again today, Mt Olympus. I noted that the assault on the hill i.e church was greatly weakened, but it wasn't bad because we managed to cap flags along the beach including the one with the 25pndr... issue however was, most of these were poorly manned. The Brit bots basically spawned almost exclusively on the hill where the ruins are - a tactical position, since they could counter-attack anywhere, and DID, viciously, after the town fell - But it DID mean that the axis of advance was rather linear.

I dont know how you'd fix this without unbalancing it, since it DOES play currently without any serious chokepoint, but perhaps increasing the assault of the town itself for the Germans without making it their sole priority at any point in time, along with changing British spawn to be more evenly distributed everywhere will make the fighting spread out and resistance possible at all bases...

Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: RedRusky on 14-06-2011, 21:06:33
So if I dled the FH2 Edition, does that count as the FH2 Map Pack as it says in the readme? And if not where do I get it, and if so, All i have to do is place ESAI folder in FH2 main directory?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 15-06-2011, 00:06:34
1. You DL FH2 standard from their main website
2. You DL ESAI
3. In ESAI are mapfiles. These go, al la the readme, into the corresponding ZIPs for those maps.

For Mt. Olympus and Lebisey, you also need to fix those maps, using the solution from the DL links thread before applying ESAI to them.
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: RedRusky on 15-06-2011, 17:06:49
Thank you Dj, But does that mean that  ESAI is only present in those maps?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 15-06-2011, 23:06:16
Yes
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 16-06-2011, 13:06:19
Quote
*** E.S.A.I ***

Enhanced Strategic AI for FH2 --->http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/void/fh2/ESAI-FH2-Current.zip

- The latest (and greatest?) BF2 AI mod, now with FH2-specific map strategies.

- ESAI v2.5 by Void.

HOW TO INSTALL:
Simply unzip/extract ESAI-FH2-Current.zip into '...EA Games\Battlefield 2\mods\fh2'...

Then all you need to do is DL the ESAI-compatible map files:

ESAI Map Pack ---> http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/void/fh2/ESAI-FH2_MapPack_1.rar

- Map server.zip's with ESAI files already added.

- Includes Gazala, Lebisey, Mareth Line, Op. Goodwood, Siege of Tobruk, Supercharge, and Villers Bocage.

Operation Luttich ---> http://www.battlefieldsingleplayer.com/void/fh2/operation_luttich_alternate_sp_version_ESAI_patched.rar

- Alternate flag layout (3 more flags per side) by Void.

HOW TO INSTALL:
Unzip/extract each file into: '...EA Games\Battlefield 2\mods\fh2\levels', and you're good to go.

If you don't want to install the ESAI files into each map yourself, just download the map pack and Luttich files (which contain ready-to-go server.zip's)... ;)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: RedRusky on 16-06-2011, 14:06:21

If you don't want to install the ESAI files into each map yourself, just download the map pack and Luttich files (which contain ready-to-go server.zip's)... ;)

I did that, but that means ESAI is only present in the maps in the map pack, which aren't all... So my next newb question is where do I put ESAI files for other maps?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: cannonfodder on 16-06-2011, 14:06:10
You basically just need to add one file (Strategies.ai) to the GameModes\sp3\64\AI folder inside the maps's server.zip.

Void wrote a tutorial on how it's done which you can DL here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/esai-enhanced-strategic-ai/downloads/esai-pictorial-setup-guide

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Jimi Hendrix on 24-07-2011, 12:07:28
Hopefully we will see this updated for 2.4

If any patch needed it, its 2.4

8)
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: hitm4k3r on 24-07-2011, 13:07:07
If I am honest, I would like to see it implemented in the mod by default. Also all other fixes and so on for singleplayer/coop. Not every player is willed to read a tutorial, how to set up a coop match with ESAI or how to replace the gameplay objects. I did it, and after a while it was a littlebit of a mess in my map folder, because I didn't know exactly, wich map was modified or not. I think it would also help to attract new players, since most new players want to start the game and just have fun, without editing anything. I also wondered, if anybody of you guys, who are tweaking the SP/Coop stuff, could apply to the Dev team and help them to improve the SP/Coop as part of the dev team. Maybe for better input?
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: djinn on 24-07-2011, 18:07:10
If I am honest, I would like to see it implemented in the mod by default. Also all other fixes and so on for singleplayer/coop. Not every player is willed to read a tutorial, how to set up a coop match with ESAI or how to replace the gameplay objects. I did it, and after a while it was a littlebit of a mess in my map folder, because I didn't know exactly, wich map was modified or not. I think it would also help to attract new players, since most new players want to start the game and just have fun, without editing anything. I also wondered, if anybody of you guys, who are tweaking the SP/Coop stuff, could apply to the Dev team and help them to improve the SP/Coop as part of the dev team. Maybe for better input?

I wish it were that simple...

Eppeldorf and Meuse really could use ESAI that's for certain. On Meuse, bots dont move North to cap the base there, so they are forced to either throw infantry over that ridge or tanks down the one bridge they DO cross, making it all a killing field.

Eppeldorf needs better attack/ counterattack on the hill, and both maps need spawn points for guns etc... On Eppeldorf, the nebelwerfer has excellent view all the way up to the church, but NEVER gets manned because it doesn't make 'sense' for a bot to drive to it. I have to drive up there ,and wait for my squad to spawn to see it really shine. It can ONLY be a spawn point, not even a spawn area...

Personally, I think if Remick permitted it, and Void is still around, ALOT of the maps could really shine with static guns all manned (Think of all AT guns on El Alamein's kidney ridge), and then you get a real battle
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: eldiablo on 08-03-2012, 10:03:05
Sorry for resurrecting the old thread but this seemed best place to ask.

Void posted a new and improved method at singlepalyer forums.
---
You can change this yourself to use any of the pre-made strategy sets you like as the default for your mod. The trick is to take the mapfile for the strategy set, put most of the lines in AIDefaultStrategies.ai, and then add the last line to AIDefaultStrategiesAdd.ai.
---

I take that this would work for ESAI:FH edition also? I wish not t corrupt my FH installation hence I´ll ask first try later (for a change...).

Thanks!
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Void on 08-03-2012, 15:03:54
No worries.

Surprised you found the method I posted over at BFSP; it was buried on page 9 of an 11 or 12 page topic.

Anyway, the answer is yes, it will work for fh2 also. Just put all the lines from the map file for your desired strategy set in AIDefaultStrategies.ai except for the last line. The last line goes in AIDefaultStrategiesAdd.ai

Quote
If I am honest, I would like to see it implemented in the mod by default.

Done
Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Singis on 15-05-2016, 22:05:19
Sorry for a bit of a necro but im trying to add ESAI to my FH2 maps and wandered if anyone had a better description of what each strategy type does.

for example im trying to make it so the Germans on the 32 player version of Dukla Pass do not attack and instead defend the points they have so then to Soviets can attack and push the Germans back across the map how it should be played. Which strategy would I chose to achieve this?

Title: Re: ESAI: FH2 Edition
Post by: Darman on 16-05-2016, 02:05:24
I never really looked into ESAI a lot, but in this case, it isn't that simple, I'm afraid. Also the usage of ESAI is no longer advised and can lead to unexpected or undesired outcomes such as crashes, iirc.

I suppose you are referring to my Coop version of Dukla Pass and I suppose you would like the Germans not to be able to recapture a CP once it is lost?
In case yes: This is the wrong topic, but it could be done by configuring the CPs in the GPOs to be only capturable by team 2, the Soviets. Pushmode circle markers will then appear in blue. However there are limitations to what can be done since an AI commander defend-order will stay on a CP once its lost unti the next one in the row comes under enemy pressure ( only then will the AI commander react and give out new orders). So even if the CP is taken, the Germans will move towards it until Soviets threaten the next CP they have to defend. It is worth a try, but the best approach to interesting push matches vs AI is still finding the right balance of numbers for the teams.