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Messages - Drawde

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Singleplayer and Coop / Re: Bot Navigation Tweaks
« on: 31-01-2011, 20:01:47 »
I've been finding that with the weapons files also. The whole idleling bots on Operation Cobra is due to faulty AI for the colt1911. Same goes for the idle bots on Totalize with the bhipo.

Is this a problem with FH2.3 or is it an old issue which you've fixed? Both the colt1911 and bhipo weapons seem to have their AI templates properly assigned in the 2.3 files, though I know the bhipo at least had no AI assigned pre-2.3.

Singleplayer and Coop / Re: Bot Navigation Tweaks
« on: 31-01-2011, 20:01:43 »
The easiest way would be if someone already had the info on max speeds and decided to share it with me here.

I'm fairly certain I have a database of WW2 vehicle data somewhere on my PC, if not I have quite a few books on the subject and should be able to make a list of the FH2 vehicle max speeds.

Anyone know whether the BF2 engine uses miles or kilometres per hour for the vehicle speed settings?

Fixing the AI vehicle speeds is definitely a good idea, it should definitely make a noticeable difference in the larger NA maps at least. I'm fairly certain that bots can't drive vehicles faster than their actual in-game maximum speed (e.g. the Matilda is a lot slower even when driven by bots) but I assume that they don't go faster than their AI speed setting even if the vehicle they're driving can do so.

Yes,its a bit of a mess
stationary guns given helicopter strategy types  ::)

I know this was posted  a while ago, but I just wanted to clear this up - stationary guns (and light vehicles, jeeps etc.) don't use the Helicopter strategy/behaviour types, they just use the Helicopter "AI armour flag". The AI armour flag (setStrType) just tells bots what type of armour a target has, so they know what weapons they can fire at it. The BF2 engine has 6 different settings for this - infantry, light armour, heavy armour, naval armour, plane and helicopter. NavalArmour and Helicopter are unused in FH2 so I used them to represent very heavily armoured tanks (Matilda, Tiger etc.) and unarmoured vehicles/guns respectively - this allows a number of improvements to AI weapon use, such as using HE shells on stationary guns and special AP shells against heavy tanks

It does look a bit odd having guns and jeeps specified as "helicopter", but it definitely doesn't make them behave like helicopters!

Singleplayer and Coop / Re: Purple Heart Lane: Testing
« on: 31-01-2011, 19:01:09 »
Is there any possibility you could post a description of exactly what you changed in the MG34/42 Lafette files to fix the CTD?
If you post details of the fix it will be easier for the SP/AI devs to fix this in the next FH2 version, also I may be able to include it in the future 2.3 version of my AI minimod.

Apologies for my long absence from the forum - after 2.3 was released I thought my AI modding work wasn't needed any more, and to be honest I'd got fairly "burned out" with FH2 after repeatedly playtesting maps to find AI issues, and decided to take a break!

However, over the last couple of weeks I've been playing some of the new maps as well as looking through the 2.3 data files and comparing them with the old 2.26 AI minimod. It looks like a lot of the AI problems in 2.3 will be a simple fix, though others I'm not sure about.
Here's a list of the issues I've found and what needs to be done to fix them (thanks to Djinn for the initial list of issues).

Hopefully some of the info here will help Remick04 and the other SP developers fix these issues for the next FH2 version; I'll probably also release a new 2.3 version of my AI minimod (much reduced in size from the 2.26 version as a lot less needs fixing!), as well as the Stuka dive siren mod as a seperate release.

Tanks not firing the right shell types: A number of tanks/AFVs don't fire HE or special AP shells as the aiTemplate for these weapons is either missing or commented out via "rem". The ones I know of are:

GB Achilles, Cromwell, M3 Grant, M3 Stuart, M4A1, Sherman V and VC
US M4A1, M4A1/76, M4A1_eu, M5 Stuart, M10, M24 Chaffee
DE Panther A, Panther G, PzIIIN France, PzIVF2, PzIVH

A number of tanks also have the misspelling "Infantery" in their file. Don't know if this actually affects the AI or not; this bug(?) dates back to the original BF1942.

The Pz.IVD and F1 also share the AI template for the PzIVH, despite having a different main gun and shell types.

M16 MGMC not firing at aircraft: This vehicle uses the AI for the M3 halftrack, the gunner AI for this has very limited rotation/elevation limits although it's capable of firing at planes. The vehicle also has the same temperature and attack/defence value as the M3 so bots aren't particularly inclined to use it. Probably the best fix is a new AI template for the M16 with 360' rotation for the gunner position and increased temperature for both crew positions.

The M51 (static quad .50 AA) uses the AI for the Flakvierling, which works fine.

Crusader AA not firing at aircraft:
This vehicle does have its own AI files in 2.3 (crusadermk3AAAI) but it doesn't use them - the aiTemplate assigned in crusadermk3_aa.tweak is that of the standard Crusader tank.

Flak88 looping fire sound: For the 3rd-person firing sound script (e.g S_flak18_barrel_Fire3P) change "ObjectTemplate.loopCount" to "0". A simple fix but needs to be done for all shell types of all 6 Flak88 variants!

Bot use of deployable MGs:
haven't looked into this yet, when I play I don't use deployables that often and don't usually leave them to bots when I do! But I'll try and have a look at this later.

Map-specific problems (other than pathfinding/AI commander issues): The British mortars in Villers Bocage are the non-AI type. Probably more map issues out there but this is the only significant one I've found so far.

Some other minor issues:

The KWK 5cm (found on Port en Bessin, not sure if it's on any other maps) has the "Fixed" rather than "FixedGun" AI setting, so bots usually bail from it before they get the chance to shoot at anything.

The Bren AA weapon (bren_std.tweak) uses the aiTemplate for the standard Bren, although it has its own aiTemplate (BrenAAGun_AI) which is only permitted to fire at aircraft (otherwise bots waste time trying to track ground targets they can't fire at)

Some tank coaxial MGs have a minimum range of 5.0 which prevents them firing at close range

Bots don't use the Geballte Ladung AT charge: the weapon has no aiTemplate assigned in the .tweak file. (should be geballteladung_AI)

Bots rarely seem to use hand grenades against infantry.

Universal Carrier AI has very low temperature settings for crew positions (so bots are less likely to use it) also passenger positions have a fairly high defensive StrategicStrength (so less likely to bail when needed elsewhere). Other transport vehicles may have similar problems (haven't checked them all yet).

The Universal Carrier with Vickers MG uses the same AI for the Vickers as for the front gun (so it can't rotate 360').

Wespe doesn't have its own AI - haven't seen this in action yet (what map(s) is it in?) so I don't know whether the standard LeFH18 AI will be adequate or not to get bots to use it correctly.

The Wasp Universal Carrier also lacks its own vehicle AI, though it does have weapon AI. (the standard UC AI still works with the Wasp, but the gunner position probably needs a higher temperature  ;D and AntiAircraft=0 setting)

Also some AI issues which are unchanged from 2.26 - there are plenty more but these are a couple that come to mind:

- Bots still seem to be unable to use anti-tank rifles.

- Bots don't respond to radio commands.

I'll post any more issues here when I find them!

Definitely looking forward to seeing how the AI has improved in 2.3 - will start downloading ASAP once there's a non-torrent mirror available. Congrats to Remick04 etc for putting in the effort to get the AI tweaks and map AI support into the official release!

Odd, though, that Alam Halfa is one of the maps still with no AI support, as the AI for this map had already been partly done (can't remember who made the files but it was pre-2.26)

If another, hopefully much smaller, AI minimod is still needed (maybe some fixes didn't get in due to MP compatibility reasons) I'll definitely start anew using the 2.3 files, rather than attempting to use any of my earlier work.

I'm still here, though I've taken a break from FH2 modding lately seeing as Remick04 and the other official
devs are now doing a better job than me ;D (also definitely looking forward to FH2.3
with improved AI + SP support)

When 2.3 is out I still might work on another minimod version (much smaller, hopefully, since a lot less will need fixing) addressing any issues that 2.3 hasn't fixed (maybe due to MP compatibility issues or lack of time)

Regarding the Stuka dive siren issue, I've now modified this so the siren has a much higher activation speed (only in steep dives)
and the AI dive angle has been increased so bots will dive it steeply enough to activate the siren. I'll put this up for release in a day or so.

Bots planting mines around flags may not work very well considering friendlies can set them off as easily as enemies (unlike vBF2, IIRC), also the AI mine-planting behaviour was responsible for the infamous "satchel TKing", so I disabled it completely in my minimod. Is there any way to stop bots from thinking satchels/AT charges are mines?

And about the Commander AI
Yer, I didn't want to say it, but honestly, alot of spam bugs did result after the last of Drawde's mod. That doesn't totally solve it all though, the 2.0 maps specifically had those up the wazoo. But many only reared their head later in the battle. Howiever, I guess it all shows on the paper ie. fixed irrespective of source, so I should rest easy

Sorry about the commander spam bugs... didn't notice most of them myself as I very rarely play as part of a fireteam (partly due to the commander spam, ironically). Not sure why my added files cause commander spam, but from what Remick04 says it sounds like they're definitely the cause of the problem   >:( - annoying as they're quite useful on some maps particularly when one side needs to focus on defence (e.g Siege of Tobruk). But I'll try deleting these files and seeing if the AI can still manage OK.

Going through the list I think we forgot to mention 1 important issue

 * Bots not able to spot for arty

Not sure bots are able to do this - I've tried adding AI to binoculars, but bots never seem to use them. Spotter planes don't work either.

Apologies for my absence from the forum BTW, I've taken a break from FH2 modding lately! In a day or two I'll put the latest version of my Stuka files (with the modified dive angle) up for download. This is the only major addition/fix I've made since my last AI minimod release.

Singleplayer and Coop / Re: About P51DRockets
« on: 15-08-2010, 19:08:03 »
There seems to be a similar flying-off-map issue with the Stukas on Mersa Matruh. Very often I've see them drop their bombs then fly out to sea, then get a "Bot X is no more" message shortly after.

(edit) Also, regarding the 25pdr, theoretically the AI should treat both the NA and Normandy versions the same way, as they share the same object and weapon .ai files (in the NA 25pdr folder). There was a bug with the gunner viewpoint for the Normandy gun in a previous minimod version, but this is now fixed.

I did however figure out what was preventing bots from firing Arty on infantry at max range. I'll let Drawde know what I did for future use in the minimod. It makes a world of difference. On some maps the mortars never seem to stop falling from the sky.

 :o How did you do this? I could never get arty bots to focus on infantry, let alone fire at things beyond their visual range. Sounds like AI artillery in the next version will genuinely be something to fear, rather than just creating impressive explosion effects  ;D

You mention that you've included my new armour class for heavy tanks (using the NavalArmour class), have you also used the one for unarmoured vehicles and guns (the Helicopter class)? I found it made a big difference having bots be able to fire at jeeps etc. and at exposed gunners with small arms... the AI is sometimes better at taking out AT guns this way than with HE.
Also (I'm sure you know this) it's really important to update ALL the files to take the new classes into account, otherwise some bots will completely ignore vehicles which use them.

Are you going to include the feature where bots don't leave static weapons? (using the "FixedGun" AI class) I found the game worked much better when bots "camped" guns, especially since AA and artillery tend to be behind the frontlines. Otherwise they usually hop out and go off somewhere else leaving the guns unmanned when an enemy tank/plane finally turns up. (The only weapons I didn't give the FixedGun setting were deployables and the Bren AA)

Glad to hear that you're making such good progress with the AI. By the sounds of things, I won't need to make a new minimod once FH2.3 is out (definitely a good thing)

I apologize, Drawde, for butchering your mod to get it included, But I'm trying to avoid setting back the 2.3 release. If there are any .tweak files that you think I definitely need to add or fix let me know what they are and what changes were made. Like for instance the 50cal MGs on Allied tanks in Normandy, don't seem to be firing, but I know bots used them in your mod. So I must be missing something.

No need to apologies - any AI fixes that get included in the officlal release are a good thing.
Most of the important data is in the .ai files anyway but there are a few important changes to .tweak files, I'll send you a PM later with more info on this. One thing I should mention is that the critical part of the aircraft rocket fix is in the projectile .tweak files (change physicsType to Point rather than Mesh), not the aircraft or weapon files.

Also, a lot of vehicles now share object and weapon .ai files, all the 75mm Sherman variants for example. The AI profiles used are defined in the .tweak files, if this is unchanged then most of these vehicles will use the original, unmodded .ai files. This might be something you want to look at.

Also, since Clivewil's fix for the dive angle, I've removed the SP-only Stuka versions from the minimod... the auto Stuka siren may have to be a feature, like the raised artillery viewpoint, that's only available in the minimod. IMO the auto siren could be a good idea for MP anyway (might encourage people to dive-bomb more!) but the devs may disagree.

Announcements / Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 27th of July
« on: 03-08-2010, 20:08:31 »
Where is that pic taken?

This particular "222" is on display in a private museum about 10 miles from where I live (in England) - it's actually a replica built on a Land Rover chassis  ;D  (not sure if there are any real ones in running condition?)
They also have a Stuart (a real one in this case) and a Renault UE tractor/tankette (which would be fun to see if FH2 ever gets as far France 1940... or even if it doesn't, as Germans used loads of them as tractors and even as SP gun mounts, some saw action in Normandy) as well as loads of "softskins" including a Ford GPA amphibian, a corner of which appears in Steel_Lion_FIN's pic.

Tried out Clivewil's suggested fix for the Stuka (increasing the climb angle angle) and it works great! Bots flying the Stuka will now dive steeply enough to activate the siren with the original AIX settings, so there's no need for separate SP versions of the Stuka or for setting the siren activation threshold so low that it goes off in normal flight.
Also, since the Stukas fly higher and dive steeply onto their target, they're quite a bit harder to shoot down especially with tripod + vehicle MGs, not good news for the Allies! 

It makes me wonder what else could be done to improve bot piloting AI by tweaking the settings like this! Increased climb angles might be helpful for other attack planes, not just the Stuka.

Singleplayer and Coop / Re: Purple Heart Lane: Testing
« on: 01-08-2010, 13:08:36 »
If it's the mod, not the map, that's causing the problem, some suggestions for narrowing down the cause of the CTD:

- Try disabling in (add "rem " to the beginning of the line"); if this fixes the CTD, the cause is a static weapon like the Nebelwerfer or 88 (not a mortar or MG)
- Alternatively, disable, if the game no longer CTDs then the cause is either a hand weapon or a stationary mortar/MG.

If is the cause (likely) you can narrow it down further if you have any experience working with archive files: unpack the zip, remove either the Emplaced or Handheld folder (move them to a temporary folder somewhere else) and re-pack it. This will tell you if the cause is a hand weapon or stationary emplaced weapon.
You can narrow things down even more by removing individual weapon folders but this is a very slow + tedious job, only do it if you suspect a particular type of weapon (e.g grenade) is the cause.

Running FH2 in windowed mode helps a lot - this way you can start up the map and have it running in the background whilst working on something else, there's no need to actually play the game to test it unless the CTD cause involves something that bots can't do, like pickup kits or deploying weapons  (doesn't seem like this is the case here)

This is more or less how I tracked down previous similar CTDs. Don't have time at the minute to do lots of testing like this or I'd do it myself, may try later this week if I have time and nobody else has made any progress.

Where is Clivewil's post on the Stuka dive angles? (can't find it on the forum for some reason). I'll definitely give this a try.

What I did for the Stukas in the current version is to make two different versions, the default version where the dive horn only activates in steep dives (as with the standard AIX settings) and a SP-only version where it activates in shallower dives. You'll need the map patch installed for the latter to show up in SP/co-op maps.
If Clivewil's suggestion works, though, the different versions won't be necessary.

I'll also try out the aircraft MG accuracy fix. One question, though, is it true that with the AI difficulty on maximum, the bots ignore "deviation" settings and are always 100% accurate? In this case, would it be better to run the game with the AI on a high but not maximum setting, like 0.8-0.9?

I'll try and get another minimod version out within a week or so... the PHL CTD is probably the biggest issue currently.

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