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Messages - Steiner8834

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Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 24-08-2011, 12:08:35 »
So true, and a good statement by Hankypanky.

If they democratically elect a 'radical' muslim party, well that's a majority vote and as long as all goes along with international observers, who are we to complain?

Just because a majority of the people vote for a specific party doesn't means that is right and lawful. You see I hold it with the principle, that every individual has some god given unalienable rights. Now if a majority lets say 51 % vote for the killing  of the other 49 % percent do you really think that is ok? No, democracy is in the end "mob rule".
Thats why in my opinion the majority has to be restricted in their rights. Let's take the MB for example. If the MB gains power in the parliament members of other religious minorities like christians, buddiths and some sects will loose their unalienable rights. They will fall under the so called "Dhimmitude". In a democracy it is absolutely ok because the majority voted for that. For me as republican it is absolutely shameful because these people will loose their freedom.

If these arab spring countries mean it really serious  than they should ban organisations like the Muslim Brotherhood because these evil monsters will enslave great parts of the population.

I mean some Republicans/Democrats can be seen as radical Christians and do we throw a fit every time the US elects a President from the GOP? (well ok I do, but that's me ^^)

The United States and their constitution were built on Christian priniciples ::)

Some quotes from the Founding Fathers.

John Adams

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

Thomas Jefferson
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."

Oh yeah the dailymail... they fail to mention that the elections are yet to come, as they were set to be held in autumn right after the revolt was over...

Yeah cause it is from the "evil" dailymail it must be wrong.  ::)

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 20:08:00 »
A very good article from the Daily Mail and the best it is from today.  :)

Why this is the moment Libya's Islamic extremists have prayed for

As Tripoli fell to anti-Gaddafi rebel forces, the euphoria that erupted in some parts of the city was matched only by that which broke out among Middle East pundits in the West.

The fall of the Libyan capital represents a clear victory for freedom over tyranny, they tell us, and a new country — defined by an enthusiastic embrace of democracy, pluralism and representative government — will emerge.

However, we have been here twice before in the Middle East in recent months. First, when Tunisia’s strongman, Zine El-Abidene Ben Ali, fled Tunis, and then when Egypt’s dictator Hosni Mubarak vacated the presidential palace in Cairo.

Seven months on, both countries are as authoritarian as ever. The Islamists have hijacked the popular uprisings there. And little evidence of a popular thirst for democracy can be found.
In Tunisia, a paltry 16 per cent of eligible voters had bothered to register before an initial deadline for doing so passed last month.

Egypt’s first free and fair election in March — voting for a new constitution — drew just 41 per cent of the population to the polling booths.

If the Arab Spring has so miserably failed to blossom into an enthusiasm for democracy in these two relatively modern and unified Arab states, what chance is there of it doing so in a desert backwater such as Libya?

Other events in the Middle East also bode ill for Libya’s future. A decade after the American-led invasions, Afghanistan and Iraq — also deeply tribal countries — are, despite regular elections, just as far in social terms from Western notions of liberalism and pluralism.

Instead, their populations are busy tearing each other apart along tribal and sectarian lines, and the liberals are so marginalised they barely manage to get a word in.

In Afghanistan, the Taliban, once Enemy No 1, are looking more and more like an acceptable negotiating partner if the land is to be, if not pacified, then at least becalmed.

In Iraq, as in Libya, the U.S. was only able to fight its enemy by buying the support of local Sunni tribal leaders — never the most open-minded kind of men one is likely to find.

Now, more suddenly than any of us imagined, we are confronted with the same question that has caused us so many problems in those countries: what happens next?


Only in the weeks and months to come will we discover if the West has repeated the deadly mistake it made in Afghanistan and Iraq: arming fanatical jihadists and tribesmen who will, sooner or later, turn against their paymaster.

For not all the rebels are chaotic. One of their commanders, Abdel-Hakim Al-Hasidi, has been a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) since the Nineties.

This is a violent jihadist outfit that, for decades, had been waging a holy war against the Gaddafi regime with an aim of creating an Islamic state.

It was banned worldwide after the 9/11 attacks, when Al-Hasidi fled to Afghanistan.

Now he admits he recruited dozens of Al Qaeda members to the insurgent cause in Iraq, where the LIFG made up the second largest group of foreign fighters; and, worse, that many of his jihadists have joined the rebellion in Libya.

Al-Hasidi said his fighters in Libya ‘are patriots and good Muslims’, but added that Al Qaeda men ‘are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader’ in Iraq.

Even as the rebels continue to pour into Tripoli, the numerous Islamist militias, who have been fighting independently, are still refusing officially to join their ranks.

Only a fool would bet on their long-term allegiances, or consider them a unifying national force. And only a buffoon would expect them to embrace Western democratic principles any more sincerely than the Islamists will.


Take the powerful Obeidi tribe, which was among the first to join the anti- Gaddafi alliance.

For them, maintaining honour is always paramount, and there could have been no greater provocation than the assassination, by unknown assailants, last month of their leader Abdel Fattah Younes.

Once a powerful interior minister under Gaddafi, Younes had defected to the rebels in February 2011 and became their star army commander.

He was shot dead with two aides, also from the Obeidi tribe, after being summoned to Benghazi by the Western-backed National Transitional Council (NTC).

Immediately, the suspicion was that the NTC had something to do with the assassination, but the Obeidis rejected an offer of an investigation into Younes’s death by the Council, instead deciding to take the law into their own hands.

‘We will leave it to the tribe to bring us justice,’ Younes’s son threatened, hours after his tribal followers went on a gun-firing rampage.

The entire NTC was then sacked by its acting leader, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, as a pacifying move, meaning the only way for the rebels to maintain any semblance of unity since then has been to have only a nominal, national political leadership.

Not that the rebels have ever managed to achieve anything other than superficial unity. Even before Younes’s assassination, rebels from Misrata, Libya’s third largest city, were refusing to join ranks with revolutionaries from Benghazi, because of different tribal affiliations. And they still refuse to take orders from the NTC.

Factions within Misrata have been at each other’s throats because of a historic feud between the Misratans and other locals known as Tawerghans. They still refuse to recognise the transitional council.

Rebels from the Zintan tribe, meanwhile, instead of fighting Gaddafi’s forces head-on, took up arms specifically against the pro-government Mashashiya tribe — taking advantage of the chaos to settle old scores.

This confusing mish-mash of alliances is a taste of the way Libya will be ruled in the future, if and when the rebel groups attain national power.

And from all this it will be clear why the only way Gaddafi was able to rule Libya for decades was by playing a much more skilful game of tribal repression and coercion, all the time trying to undermine tribal alliances through intermarriage, modernisation and urbanisation.

But the tragic irony of the Libyan civil war is that the tribes, and their byzantine web of links and rivalries, have once again became central to the fate of the country — as have the once-repressed radical jihadists.

The fiercely independent Islamists, moreover, will not relent on their demands for an Islamist state. In the transitional council’s draft constitution it is clearly stated that Islamic law will be ‘the principal source of legislation’.

Nato, then, can at best achieve replacing the Gaddafi regime with an Islamist-infiltrated tribal council.

And that means Libya is as far as ever from being a Western-style democracy. Indeed, it is more likely to turn into the West’s worst nightmare.

Read more:

The majority of the commentators are of the same opinion.

General Discussion / Re: Post your FH2 Screenshots
« on: 23-08-2011, 16:08:01 »
Some destroyed Panther tanks

Laying side by side.

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 16:08:56 »
The Rebels are also very anti-semitic.

Here you can see some of their "cartoons":

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 15:08:14 »
Let me guess you're a liberal or "Gutmensch", right?  ;D
Truth hurts I know but it is a fact that the MB wants the world domination.
The Leader of Muslim Brotherhood Mustafa Mashhur wrote the following about the tasks of the MB.

You out yourself more and more. The therm "Gutmensch' was coined by Goebbels himself. ;)

Sure because I'm against a islamic theocracy where girls are stoned to death and gays are hanged I must be a National Socialist or something like that. You're absolutely wrong mate. My political belief is American Republicanism. If you don't know what it is read it here:
Republicanism is the political value system that has been a major part of American civic thought since the American Revolution.[1] It stresses liberty and inalienable rights as central values, makes the people as a whole sovereign, supports activist government to promote the common good, rejects inherited political power, expects citizens to be independent in their performance of civic duties, and vilifies corruption.[2] American republicanism was founded and first practiced by the Founding Fathers in the 18th century. This system was based on early Roman, Renaissance and English models and ideas.[3] It formed the basis for the American Revolution and the consequential Declaration of Independence (1776) and the Constitution (1787), as well as the Gettysburg Address.[4]

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 15:08:41 »
To be honest, more worried about the Christian-Democrats than the Muslim Brotherhood.

Religion + politics = please no, kill it with fire.

The same goes for the MB because if we dont stop them, they will undermine us and establish an islamic caliphate in Europe.

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 15:08:13 »
Yeah guys, don't give in into this world caliphate bs....
The Muslim Brotherhood is just one more organisation that wants to gain political power in a democratic system. I can't stress this enough, Germany is run at the moment by the Christian Democratic Party... oh noes, religious nuts in power... help! ^^

Let me guess you're a liberal or "Gutmensch", right?  ;D

Truth hurts I know but it is a fact that the MB wants the world domination.

The Leader of Muslim Brotherhood Mustafa Mashhur wrote the following about the tasks of the MB.

PMW has selected the following quotes from Jihad is the way to illustrate central ideas of Muslim Brotherhood ideology. PMW's translation of the book follows below.

National goal: Islamic world domination
- "...the Islamic Ummah [nation]... can regain its power and be liberated and assume its rightful position which was intended by Allah, as the most exalted nation among men , as the leaders of humanity..."
- "...know your status, and believe firmly that you are the masters of the world, even if your enemies desire your degradation..."
- "It should be known that Jihad and preparation towards Jihad are not only for the purpose of fending-off assaults and attacks of Allah's enemies from Muslims, but are also for the purpose of realizing the great task of establishing an Islamic state and strengthening the religion and spreading it around the world..."
- "...Jihad for Allah is not limited to the specific region of the Islamic countries, since the Muslim homeland is one and is not divided, and the banner of Jihad has already been raised in some of its parts, and it shall continue to be raised, with the help of Allah, until every inch of the land of Islam will be liberated, the State of Islam will be established,..."

Means: Jihad - a mandatory religious duty
-"Then comes the power of arms and weapons,... and this is the role of Jihad."
- "Jihad is a religious public duty... incumbent upon the Islamic nation, and is a personal duty to fend off the infidels' attack on the nation..."
- "And the youth should know that the problems of the Islamic world, such as Palestine, Afghanistan, Syria, Eritrea, or the Philippines, are not issues of territories and nations, but of faith and religion. They are problems of Islam and all Muslims, and their resolution cannot be negotiated and bargained by recognizing the enemy's right to the Islamic land he stole, therefore, there is no other option but Jihad for Allah, and this is why Jihad is the way."
- "The symbol of the [Muslim] Brotherhood is the book of Allah [the Quran] between two swords. The swords symbolize Jihad and the force that protects the truth represented in Allah's book."
- "...that is, go out to battle, oh believers, young and old, by foot or with animal, under all circumstances and conditions..."

Timing: Don't rush, prepare carefully for Jihad
- "... despite this, the [Muslim] Brotherhood is not rushed by youth's enthusiasm into immature and unplanned action which will not alter the bad reality and may even harm the Islamic activity, and will benefit the people of falsehood..."
- "... one should know that it is not necessary that the Muslims will repel every attack or damage caused by the enemies of Allah immediately, but [only] when ability and the circumstances are fit to it."
- "Prepare yourself and train in the art of warfare, and embrace the causes of power. You must learn the ways and manners and laws of war. You must learn them and embrace them and adhere to them, so that your Jihad will be the one accepted by Allah."
- "... there exists an unavoidable personal duty for every Muslim to equip himself and prepare and gear-up towards Jihad..."

Personal goal: Aspire to Shahada - Death for Allah
- "Allah is our goal, the Prophet is our leader, the Quran is our constitution, the Jihad is our way, and the Death for Allah is our most exalted wish."
- "The Jihad is our way and death for Allah is our most lofty wish", this is the call which we have always called,... Many of our beloved ones have already achieved this wish,... We ask Allah to accept all of them,... and may He join us with them, ..."

Jihad against Israel:
- "Honorable brothers have achieved Shahada (Martyrdom) on the soil of beloved Palestine, during the years 47' and 48', [while] in their Jihad against the criminal, thieving, gangs of Zion. The Imam and Shahid (Martyr) Hassan Al-Banna is considered as a Shahid (Martyr) of Palestine, even if he was not killed on its soil."

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 14:08:19 »
Steiner8834, that's a lot of assumptions for a 21 year old. Could be, you could also be completely wrong. Perhaps you should look into his, shall we say, not so co-operative years. I never believed this 'being-nice' act of Madaffi. I'll spare you people the AA pictures from february, but if this hugging a butcher goes any further, it's getting mighty hard not to show them.

Let's try this instead

Believe me it will happen as it is already happening in Egypt. The evil guys from the "Muslim Brotherhood" are already leading the polls in Egypt. Their ultimate goal is to establish a world wide islamic caliphate.

Written sometime in 1987 but not formally published until May 22, 1991, this 18-page document listed the Brotherhood’s 29 likeminded "organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of dismantling American institutions and turning the U.S. into a Muslim nation. These "friends" were identified by Akram and the Brotherhood as groups that could help convince Muslims "that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions."

Well and it looks like that these guys will win the elections in october.

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 13:08:13 »
Well youre right I'm actually 21 years old and I'm a big fan of Forgotten Hope 2. Im playing it for about 5 years now...

Was just trying to deduce the 88 and 34 in your name. Thx for proving me right. ;)

Well then. The number is only there because Steiner was already in use. My FH2 Account for example has an 9999 behind Steiner. ;)

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 13:08:32 »
Another nice little puzzle piece about the rebels and their Transnational Council.

A draft of their new constitution has been released:

Libyan Draft Constitution: Sharia is ‘Principal Source of Legislation’

Lachlan Markay

The dust has not yet settled over the Libyan capital of Tripoli since rebels took control over the weekend. But already, a draft constitutional charter for the transitional state has appeared online (embedded below). It is just a draft, mind you, and gauging its authenticity at this point is difficult. There is also no way to know whether this draft or something similar will emerge as the final governing document for a new Libyan regime.

As both the Morning Bell and Washington in a Flash noted today, Heritage Fellow Jim Phillips recently pointed out that Islamist forces “appear to make up a small but not insignificant part of the opposition coalition,” and must be prevented “from hijacking Libya’s future.” Parts of the draft Constitution allay those fears, while others exacerbate them.

Much of the document describes political institutions that will sound familiar to citizens of Western liberal democracies, including rule of law, freedom of speech and religious practice, and a multi-party electoral system.

But despite the Lockean tenor of much of the constitution, the inescapable clause lies right in Part 1, Article 1: “Islam is the Religion of the State, and the principal source of legislation is Islamic Jurisprudence (Sharia).” Under this constitution, in other words, Islam is law. That makes other phrases such as “there shall be no crime or penalty except by virtue of the law” and “Judges shall be independent, subject to no other authority but law and conscience” a bit more ominous.

 ::) ::) ::)

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:44 »
That might happen, but might also not happen.
Lybia has more contact to us hedonistic westerners than Iran in it's times. The common populace of the cities will be very hard fetched to go the fundamentalist road to 100% sharia law.
Just because you have Islamic rebels doesn't make them fundamentalist.

Never trust an islamic rebel mate. Look at history. The US supported islamic rebels in Afghanistan. In the end Afghanistan was transformed into a religious hell hole.

BTW who are you Steiner and I don't think you're 23 years old ;)

Well youre right I'm actually 21 years old and I'm a big fan of Forgotten Hope 2. Im playing it for about 5 years now. Why I post about Libya is because I cant stand this rebel Hype in the media anymore. So much people think that the rebels are the good freedom loving guys. That is not the case. These are the people who want to transform the country into a religious Dictatorship with all the "nice" little things as you can see in Iran. Sure Gaddafi is a Dictator and he has committed a lot of crimes but at least he is predictable and he helped the west against islamic rebels like Al Quaida after 9/11.

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:47 »
If the Islamic Rebels win this civil war, the country will be transformed into a Islamic Caliphate with the Sharia as the supreme Law of the Land.  Equal rights for women will disapear. Public hangings for homosexuals and stonings will be a common thing in Libya.

Thank you Nato for bombing Libya back into the MIDDLE AGE!!! >:(

I still hope the Libyan Army can turn the rudder around.

The left one is so cute. :o :-*

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 12:08:43 »
Got any unbiased sources?  ;D

They are unbiased.  :)

Off-Topic / Re: Gaddafi and Libya
« on: 23-08-2011, 11:08:45 »
Oh yes, because Western people are thrilled by the sight of us yelling Allahu Ekber. It ain't free, we're taking a break while our future enemy starts settling in.
We can sit here and dismisses the Arab spring and the Libya revolution as a farce, and as "Future enemies", or we can give them the time and maybe see new stable governments. You know there is already a stable national transition council with heavy western support. So Libya already has the framework for a stable government.

The Arab Spring or the Jasmine Spring as we call it is most certainly not a farce but something everybody should keep their eyes on. The rebels in Libya do have some Al-Qaeda connections, there are known Islamists among them and its really not similar to the situation we had in Tunisia or Egypt. Look at Syria now, people cutting eachothers heads off and hanging dead babies around and about. This doesn't feel like the sweep of freedom one bit.

Absolutely correct mate. Unfortunately most of the western people really believe that this Arab Spring is about establishing a western style democracy. The only thing we will get is a religious theocracy like in Iran or worse a second Somalia.

If you have to choose between two bastards, choose the one you already know. Thats why I'm wishing Colonel Gaddafi and the Libyan Army all the best.  :)

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