Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => Operation Hyacinth => Topic started by: Lobo on 17-05-2009, 21:05:07

Title: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Lobo on 17-05-2009, 21:05:07
"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: djinn on 27-09-2009, 10:09:30
AI in this map

I love this map for bots - Seeing only flashes @ the opening battles is epic.. Would however be really something to have Brits come in with Chevys and trucks and objectives actually meaning something

Basiically:/b]
Make the objectives carry the same weight they do in MP and leave them for the player to deal with

Reduce the love for the trucks and chevy drastically so that bots drop them off once they need to move into town.

Make fewer bots spawn @ the rear bases with most spawning where they currently do, so that vehicles are merely support... if they make it pass the minefields

Let bots fire the flaregun in the same capacityh as a 'enemy infantry spotted'


Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: ajappat on 17-05-2010, 19:05:29
Is there way to turn those flares off, without losing all dynamic lighting stuff from map? My computer can now run lighting without any problems, but stupid brits spamming flares totally freeze my computer.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-05-2010, 12:05:11
Next to moar lewis guns!!! This map is perfect.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Abuzer on 31-05-2010, 02:05:25
I've really gotten to like this map. Shame it isn't played more! Intense fighting, jeep action and flares make it all brilliantly epic. To make it even more epic:

- grappling hooks for the British, to get over the roofs = more epic climbing
- Silenced sten commando kit for the Brits?

- small Italian tank!
- some weird better stuff per nostri ragazzi
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Kelmola on 01-06-2010, 11:06:58
- grappling hooks for the British, to get over the roofs = more epic climbing
Grapplin' hooks? We don't need no stinkin' grapplin' hooks!
1. Grab a lorry
2. Drive the lorry to the north and east of Barca
3. Park the lorry so that it touches the wall, sideways is preferred but at times, nose-on will do
4. Jump onto the hood
5. Jump onto the cabin roof
6. Jump over the wall
7. ?? ??
8. PROFIT!
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: tosh on 29-10-2010, 03:10:14
It's possible to invade by a jump.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: naoko on 06-12-2010, 16:12:01
this map have error after play about 30 minute and spot light in tower near the axis airfiled is bug (return to desktop) when use it.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: BaskaBommi on 23-10-2012, 18:10:41
You should use diffrent markings on those objectives other than stars. One time I played it and I saw an Italian destroying their own equipmet they were supposed to protect. nOOb or a griefer, I don't know, but still, I find it odd. Perhaps use shields and swords to indicate protect/destroy objectives.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Turkish007 on 23-10-2012, 19:10:52
Great map, but the flares should stay more on the sky, they fall so quickly. And in SP, the bots dont use the vehicles. That sucks IMO...
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 23-10-2012, 19:10:48
Where does this idea come form that flares necessarily stay in the sky? That is only the case for soem mortar fired flares that come with a parachute.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Turkish007 on 23-10-2012, 19:10:01
The flares should stay, ya know, it doesnt feel right when it just flys and lands to the ground in jet speed.  :-\
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: BaskaBommi on 23-10-2012, 20:10:06
Where does this idea come form that flares necessarily stay in the sky? That is only the case for soem mortar fired flares that come with a parachute.
He probably means, that the lifespan of an individual flare should be longer that few seconds...
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Turkish007 on 23-10-2012, 21:10:21
...and it should stay longer in the air.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: BaskaBommi on 24-10-2012, 05:10:24
That's a same damn thing. The "lifespan" of the flare IS longer, when it floats in the air for further period of time.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Turkish007 on 24-10-2012, 07:10:11
It does stay shining on the ground when its landed, so I wouldnt call them the same thing.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Berkolok on 09-01-2013, 21:01:36
we need a breda aa near airfield  8)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Turkish007 on 09-01-2013, 21:01:27
we need a breda aa near airfield  8)

In the 32 Objective mode?
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: BaskaBommi on 24-01-2013, 19:01:14
we need a breda aa near airfield  8)
That would be sexy
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: gavrant on 10-04-2014, 15:04:24
2.46 changelog for Operation Hyacinth 64

Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 13-04-2014, 22:04:35
Just had to !runnext because the stars on the minimap did not show.
Objects ingame did also not appear (no tanks).

(http://s10.postimg.org/ipyit88bt/screen034.png)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 14-04-2014, 05:04:55
Okay, I asked Neo82,

we had a fix for the objectives mode in FH2.45.

But the 2 servers are vanilla FH2.46. No changes to the python files have been made.

Regards,
Odium.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: gavrant on 14-04-2014, 12:04:58
Could it be that only you and other guys near the Allied main didn't see the objective stars? If the players at the airfield didn't complain about missing objectives, then I think I know what's the issue: objective stars aren't shown on your minimap if you're far away from them (the same as it happens with other vehicle icons). It doesn't mean that objectives don't exist and you can't destroy them. I'll fix this "invisibility" bug.
Also, just in case, the tanks spawn with 30 seconds delay after all the planes are destroyed.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 14-04-2014, 16:04:19
Last news, the map ran yesterday:

(http://s13.postimg.org/575cdfxlf/screen011.png) (http://postimg.org/image/575cdfxlf/)

(http://s13.postimg.org/4iwhuhyvn/screen012.png) (http://postimg.org/image/4iwhuhyvn/)

(http://s13.postimg.org/mmzif4wk3/screen013.png) (http://postimg.org/image/mmzif4wk3/)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 02-05-2014, 23:05:41
Thank you Odium for actually taking the time to post things here instead of just whining about it in all chat like all the ppl I played with today. :)

A quick thing I found, my FPS drops HEAVILY in the D-5/6 area. (other ppls FPS was dropping too) I believe these objects to be the culprit. I looked at them without any explosions going on or anything and my fps dropped to 20-30 ish
(http://i.imgur.com/xxUh1s5.jpg?1)
i normally get around 90-100 fps on this map/all maps
(http://i.imgur.com/QzoSzQg.jpg?1)

As for the map itself, I feel like it hasn't had a lot of play testing despite being in FH2 since the early days. Objective mode has been broken for a lot of it, and ppl voted to play the conquest version instead for a long time. If I'm being honest I haven't seen the LRDG win this one in a long time tho. (maybe once) Playing it today as NZ, our team didn't have the best SLs, but it was still almost impossible to even get on the airfield. (Not to mention about 1/4th of the way through about 10ppl decided to boycott the map and sit in main shooting flares at trucks ::))

There was also about 85-95 players on at the time which I think had a lot to do with it. This map isn't totally fit for 64+ imo, the Italians can cover 360 around the airfield if they're coordinated (which they were). But I still think a well coordinated NZ team (that has ppl that actually care about playing) can make this map a lot of fun to play. I don't think it's entirely unbalanced at all.

I like the removal of the minefields btw, leaves a lot of room for avenues of attack and bottlenecks the map less.

I've always loved this map :); the atmosphere, the concept, it's wonderful. Even when we get crushed it's fun as hell for me but ik a lot of the ppl who bitch on the server feel very differently. I want to think of more ways to improve this map but just the fps drop report for now :) 
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 03-05-2014, 00:05:47
Are you sure the lag is not because of someone using the searchlight?
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 03-05-2014, 01:05:23
Are you sure the lag is not because of someone using the searchlight?

Don't think so. I ran around in front of ppl using searchlights all round and the fps never dropped too much. But when I went into that area it was REALLY noticeable. Other ppl said they had fps drops in that area too.

EDIT: I just went to that area on an empty server and the fps was fine. Do you think the searchlight would cause a problem even if I can't see it? You can see in my screenshots there were no flares going off or searchlights that I could see.
Title: Open Question to All FH2 Players:
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 19-09-2014, 01:09:05
Open Question to All FH2 Players: What don't you like about this map? :P

Ok so obviously not everyone hates this map. (I, for one, get a huge wave of nostalgia and immersion whenever it pops up in the server rotation)
But if I'm being honest, I think it's pretty clear that this map is one of the least liked maps in the mod. :-\

Aside from the fact that every round has someone who complains about whatever's ailing them that day; this is one of the few maps that comes on that provokes a unanimous decision to call for a map change.

Just after the last round ended today Hyacinth started to load up; and literally 20-30 people decided to call it quits for the night because this map loaded. Even the few people that stuck around wanted to see the map go; "Let the other team steamroll us to get this map over with."

I've even seen people actively boycott the map, sitting in main or just going afk until the round timed out. This seems to happen almost every time this map gets loaded.

So I'd like to ask everyone, what don't you like about this map? (or why do you think  other people don't like this map?)

My thoughts;
-people think the map is too dark and people overall hate night maps because they're harder to play during they day with glare on your comp screen etc...
-I think a lot of the casual FH players have some prejudice towards this map after the bad wrap it's gotten from broken code etc...
-It's not Normandy, most casual FHers hate the old desert maps, I see a lot of people calling for blood when El Al or Mersa Matruh comes on, I feel like this map suffers the same and it's exaggerated by the other problems.
-it's a long way to die for the NZ team. their main base is pushed pretty far back and it's easy enough to take a truck to the front, but with the countless mine bottlenecks and breda firing squads, there's a lot of 'spawn-die' gameplay for NZ before one squad breaks though and rushes an objective.
-this same 'spawn-die' gameplay results in the Italians becoming bored sitting next to planes that noone can even get to for 20min.

My experience is that this map really picks up once that first sector gets passed; the fighting gets tighter, NZ gets some closer spawns and the Slers have some places to hide aside form open desert.

I think most of the problems with this map lie in the first sector not being fun to play, and the idea that this map has a bad reputation in the FH2 community.

I honestly want to know people's thoughts on this tho. I've racked my brain for a while trying to put myself in the casual FHer's shoes to see why this map is so hated. So now i'm asking you. So far this thread has been mostly:
Quote
'objective mode is broken'
'you sure?'
'yup'
'works now'
'still broken'
'ok fine now'
'still broken'
etc...
so now that objective mode is working fine, let's get some legitimate feedback here. :)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 19-09-2014, 01:09:53
As a player:

- Having to run/drive/glide across open field into Italian machine guns without cover.
- the first half is only running uphill for the Allies.
- this is not LRDG - the Italians know you're coming - no surprise effect -> slaughter.
- and the best at the end: Allied uniforms glow like target markers in the dark. You might as well run around with sparkling pink dresses, swinging a strobe light. There is no sneaking in.

- I have always considered the town fighting the best part of this map. The trouble is, you almost never get there. Running across the field over and over frustrates every allied player to a point where he just quits the map. Me included, I have to admit. Maybe removing the minefields to make it less dull to run into the Italian open arms could fix it. Or just to cutting back the map to the town part only.

- As server admin:

- we want to keep playing every Map that FH2 has to offer. But it is apparrent that this map is not animating players to stay on the servers.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-09-2014, 01:09:47
IIRC there will be changes to this in the next patch, like removal of mines etc. Until then just take it out of rotation if people don't like it.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 19-09-2014, 02:09:14
I have made a poll for our players and opened a discussion thread.

http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/showthread.php?1291-Remove-Operation-Hyacinth-until-significant-improvements-are-made-yes-or-no&p=12811#post12811

Btw. if someone posts here in the feedback area, it is not always shown on your main forum page
(it shows "more maps like omaha" as latest "updated" thread) maybe that's why we get so few
 responses here.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 19-09-2014, 03:09:05
IIRC there will be changes to this in the next patch, like removal of mines etc. Until then just take it out of rotation if people don't like it.

There are some good changes to this map in the pipeline. Gavrant has addressed some issues recently to make this map more fun.

I just want everyone else's opinion on this map. Clearly my thinking is skewed from the average FH player when I'm excited to play a map that people actively boycott. :P I think I have some suggestions to make a few good tweaks to this map, but only after we gauge what it actually is that the players don't like.

I have made a poll for our players and opened a discussion thread.

http://www.762-ranking.de/forum/showthread.php?1291-Remove-Operation-Hyacinth-until-significant-improvements-are-made-yes-or-no&p=12811#post12811

Thank you very much for this :) I thought about doing it myself since I know a lot of the people who frequent and register at 762 don't always frequent these forums as well.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Slayer on 19-09-2014, 21:09:43
Hyacinth has many pages of discussion on various forums :) I like Hyacinth, but that is also because I have seen it change and grow over time. I think the biggest problem of Hyacinth is that many players don't know about the more recent changes. They just thought "OMG not Hyacinth again" and quit.

Changes which imo made the map way better than before:
- no more minefields and thus less chokepoints
- planes are destroyable by MG fire, so you can drive your LRDG truck over the airfield and blaze at the planes, just like irl
- removal of Italian vehicles

Changs which were suggested before, but didn't make it (yet):
- removal of Italian engineer kit (so driving trucks isn't so dangerous anymore)
- removal of flaregun rom allied soldier kits
- radios destroyable by SMG fire

On that last thing, I wrote this once:
Quote
If the radios are placed inside a building, say on the second floor, cannot be shot through any windows and can be guarded by infantry. Is it then not logical that an attacker, who succeeds in entering the building, killing all the enemies there, gets a reward in the fact that he is now able to destroy the radios? It is very hard, with a full team of defenders, to get inside such a building and stay alive. If they are made destroyable by SMGs, then make it take two full clips to do the job. This prevents a spammy kill for the radio, as the shooter has to reload, or he has to be with a friend who has an SMG too. And since SMGs are limited, it might be balanced too. Having to reload and shoot two clips is about the same as the time you hold "enter" in BC2 rush, isn't it?

Pros: it feels natural and logical when you can destroy the radio without the need of satchels. I mean, when I drop my radio out of the window it is dead by just falling down 10 meters.

Cons: eeehm... don't know any ;)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: DesertFox20591 on 20-09-2014, 18:09:53
the map is ok and we enjoy playing it.removing the engineer kit for Italian team will ruins the map and Axis will have 0% chance to win.so KEEP THE CURRENT MAP AND KITS
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: gavrant on 08-02-2016, 01:02:29
2.5 changelog for Operation Hyacinth (all layers)

Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ronson on 25-02-2016, 23:02:24
Potential for way too many lag-causing flares now on 100 player server. Maybe just the NCO kit should have flare guns.

A lot of flares in normal play, but then we also had a guy who decided to stand next to an ammo truck and fire flares non-stop and it made the game completely unplayable.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: ajappat on 03-03-2016, 23:03:11
Yeah, played twice this map on 2.5 and both times there were people just spamming those flares.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ronson on 18-04-2016, 22:04:56
Played this a few more times recently and it turns into a slide-show every time towards the end of the round. Admittedly my PC is borderline potato-class these days so maybe not everyone gets this, but a I noticed a lot of people in chat complaining about FPS drops. The map used to run fine for me in years past until the latest patch.

I guess either there's too many flare guns in use on the map now, or the increased burn time or illumination radius for the flares means there are too many active flares at once.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Slayer on 18-04-2016, 22:04:40
This problem will be attended in the next patch :)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ronson on 18-04-2016, 22:04:11
This problem will be attended in the next patch :)
Awesome, I still love this map, the objective mode is a blast  ;D
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 13-06-2016, 17:06:00
2.52 changelog for Operation Hyacinth

Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Balloon with mustard on 04-08-2018, 21:08:36
Year 2018. I got shitty AMD Athlon II X740, HD 6950 1Gb, 6Gb of RAM and still these fucking flares make my potato PC bleed. Flares! What a nice feature! And we dont give a shit about perfomance on players PCs. Well done! BTW I have zero issues with perfomance on all other maps.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 04-08-2018, 23:08:09
You sound wonderfully sarcastic and condescending, which isn't the nicest way to bring up feedback, but;

And we dont give a shit about perfomance on players PCs. Well done!

take a look at the above updates

Spoiler
2.5 changelog for Operation Hyacinth (all layers)

  • Removed the Very pistol (a flare gun) from the New Zealand rifleman and sapper kits. Instead, added the pistol to the scouts and NCOs.
  • Added the M34 Leuchtpistole (a flare gun) to the Italian scouts and NCOs.
  • Unique equipment: the spotlights now cause far less FPS drops when "fired", while having 50% longer light range at the same time. Also, added some buzzing sound on firing.
  • Unique equipment: projectiles of the flare guns now fly further, stay longer in the air, and illuminate a larger area.

2.52 changelog for Operation Hyacinth

  • To decrease the amount of flare spam, limited the scout kits for both teams to 1/10 of the players, and limited the total number of flares in the air per player to two flares (that is, if first two flares you fired are still in the air and you fire a third one, the first flare of the two "still in the air" will disappear).

Devs have done a lot over the years to try and limit the flare spam and help the performance of flares and spotlights. Unfortunately, BF2 handles dynamic lighting horribly. I don't think you'll see anymore improvements in this area unless someone talented comes up with a way to code it better.
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: LuckyOne on 06-07-2019, 22:07:14
I think the Italian planes are now too easy to destroy on this map. I've seen whole rows besides the ones in hangar taken out by the Allied jeeps before Italians even had a chance to react...

Suggestion is to increase their health a bit, and maybe reduce the amount of explosives available to LRDG (they should now try to split in 2 groups, the north one should take sapper kits and try to bomb the tanks while the south one should take vehicles with MGs and try to destroy the planes).

Also, maybe the Italians should not have a spawnable AT grenade as they can TK their own planes/tanks with it...
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Slayer on 07-07-2019, 15:07:25
Planes being destroyable by MGs is perfectly fine, as you can also kill a plane with an MG in other maps (and it is not unrealistic either).

Increasing plane's health might conflict with the health of the planes in maps where they are being used as vehicles.

Decreasing explosives might be useful  :)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: LuckyOne on 21-07-2019, 23:07:20
Another couple of rounds on this map and I'm now utterly convinced this map is unwinnable as Italians unless the LRDG is composed entirely of 2 year old toddlers.

I would prioritize on the following


EDIT:

While thinking about Supercharge map I just remembered a cool scene from COD2 that could be a good way to make at least one objective harder to get to for the Allies. It's the one where there's a closed door and one Brit starts bashing it when an MG 42 opens up through it, killing him in the process.

I'm sure there's a two story building static that could be used to place the radio objective somewhere in the map (and there is / was an MG in a similar position on Crete).

The problem now is that most of the objectives are pretty exposed, allowing Allies to sometimes kill them even behind the walls....

Pic for reference:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/3/3b/Endridiculous.png/revision/latest?cb=20120118203810)
Title: Re: Operation Hyacinth 64
Post by: Matthew_Baker on 21-07-2019, 23:07:55
Imo, this map is really only good for around 40 or less players. It'd suck to see it leave the server, :-\ but maybe it could be a 32 layer only and pop up when there's 40 players or less on the server.

Objectives in general are too easy. It'd be nice if it could be coded like other games, like Rush in Battlefield 4 etc... where you 'plant' an explosive (walk up to the objective and press a button that gives you a timer to place it) and then give the Italians a chance to 'defuse' it before it explodes.

Idk if that's possible tho :(