Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Singleplayer and Coop => Topic started by: djinn on 09-01-2010, 09:01:00

Title: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 09-01-2010, 09:01:00
Here's where it stands currently - Just so its clear what needs improvements etc

What is wrong
Range of tanks seem to vary from map to map... Maybe its just me
Stuka flies too low and so its easy target for AA
Stuka doesn't use bombs
Bots in El Alamein start firing at the German base on kidney ridge as soon as they spawn, which is wierd
Pathmap in El Alamein has issue where Matilder drives into AT gun infront of its position and gets stuck
PZIII issues:
   Bots on El Alamein still don't use the one in the 88 cap-base clse to the German side
   PZ III in Seige of Tobruk and Mersa Matu's southern base get stuck against the flag pole and abondoned at base

Cannon issues:
AT guns including 88s don't swivel to meet the enemy but fire only if the enemy is right in front of them..

Bots spawning: In goodwood, bots still spawn upstairs in the Marder I base and get stuck
Tanks Vs Infantry: Tanks neither fire HE nor mg and so infantry pwn tanks with impunity - A tank will face an infantry man, but will never open fire
German bots in PHL spawn far from the first 2 bases, making defense there non-existend and they aren't commanded to defend them even as they fall
COOP is broken since for some reason, Germans are completely imbalanced against Allied numbers
Germans in Fall of Tobruk don't go back for tanks so soon it grinds to infantry only... they should keep spawinng at rear base, at least a few
Germans don't secure El Alamein's cap-pable 88 base enough, making Allies find this map too easy
Bots don't like larger AT guns
With tanks not firing at infantry, what was really cool about Goodwood and Luttich is gone - Except for tank to tank
Luttich CTDs now



What should be kept it
Tanks sometimes stand at range and fire
Infantry now use
Increased count of bots in SP - I couldn't have played 2.25 if not for this - And it is a fair number
Bots toss smoke when they see tanks
Bots fire flares... althouugh I think they should be highly inaccurate about it so they fire alot higher
Stuka strafes
Planes are deadly now
Bots camp vehicles more..
Smite-able guns and the amphebious landing on PDH... thank you, thank you, thank you

Comments
Infantry should love stationary
Reduce spawn time in SP to 5 secs
German bots should spawn in the bunker on Supercharge in order to use mgs
bots should love mgs and AT guns the most
Bots should use grenades against AT gunners rather than smoke
Added pathmaps in Goodwood across the rail tracks themselves will aid tanks to cross the rail faster...
Mg gunners could fire from greater range and use pistol at close range more
Bots should camp stationary vehicles more, and mobile ones a tad less - Or only if someone is in driver position
Tanks could use HE as per 2.2 but focus on infantry less.
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Zoologic on 09-01-2010, 12:01:28
What is wrong
Bots spawning: In goodwood, bots still spawn upstairs in the Marder I base and get stuck

You can delete or make it "only for human player" in BF2 Editor. Easy fix.

Quote
Tanks Vs Infantry: Tanks neither fire HE nor mg and so infantry pwn tanks with impunity - A tank will face an infantry man, but will never open fire

I think it is a small problem, can be solved in next version.

Quote
COOP is broken since for some reason, Germans are completely imbalanced against Allied numbers

It is your settings. You should set your own bot coop ratio. Move the slider.

Quote
Germans in Fall of Tobruk don't go back for tanks so soon it grinds to infantry only... they should keep spawinng at rear base, at least a few

One of the weakness of that kind of sequential capture map. You have to neighbour-link every post according to the planned attack path. When it goes deeper, bots will only spawn in closer spawn point and storm its next target.

The idea is, either you have a huge opening wave attack, attacking the front outpost (the first and the only capable base in the beginning) or see a dispersed attack (linking the German main base to every other flags), that way you will see them spawning at the main base and driving tanks to attack deeper posts. But that's kinda random and less strategic. But i think it will be more fun, since the bane of the defender is really the tank themselves.

But do the Brits use the M3 tank now?

Quote
Luttich CTDs now

In 2.2 Luettich CTD too, rarely if you play as American, and occasionally if you play as German. All FH2 2.2 maps have CTD potential (including those that are believed to be stable), except infantry maps. (unless you took that un-coded Vickers .303 MG)

Quote
What should be kept it
Smite-able guns and the amphebious landing on PDH... thank you, thank you, thank you

I agree, that's the best SP present in this 2.25 release.

Quote
Comments
Reduce spawn time in SP to 5 secs

The bots will also respawn in that time frame. No good for tactical game. But good for run-and-shoot game.

Quote
Bots should use grenades against AT gunners rather than smoke

Bots don't know the difference between explosive and smoke grenades. If they have HE, they'll throw it on you, if they have smoke, they'll throw smoke. That simple.
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 09-01-2010, 12:01:08
Luttich might have CTDed in play.. rarely

But now it doesn't even loadup completely

If Tank-Infantry HE combat was fixed, I really wouldn't be too bothered - But that just kills it for me. And thinknig about it getting fixed by the next patch just makes me even more frustrated - Especially since we got luck with this release being a 'small one' and a quick release

COOP being unbalanced doesn't have to do with my ratios... I have them at 50-50 and it still gives 3/4 of the number to Allies

Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: kacklabbe on 09-01-2010, 13:01:36
I only want to say that Goodwood in Singleplayer crash abfter 20 min of playing somebody got the same problem? Shouldnt  that be solved
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 09-01-2010, 13:01:21
I don't think the devs left it in on purpose

But yer, I got that for the first time I played it that long after 2.25... From 2.2 and having replaced the 2 known crashing vehicles on the Allied side, I noted the same thing... Perhaps there's an unknown third.. or some other factor we don't yet know... might be a while fixing it since it occurs so late ingame and doesn't seem to have any known source

Do bots use nebelwerfers? I saw it in the changelog, but they don't use it... Also, can the Tiger II be put back in? Or is there a reason why it was taken out for SP?
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: kacklabbe on 09-01-2010, 13:01:01
The King Tiger is in but i replayced it with the normal tiger_late an that had no effect of the crash it also crashes after 20 min


(Operation L├╝ttich after Loading CTD, i changed the M4A1 with the Sherman V and it works fine)
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 09-01-2010, 13:01:06
Cool... I think I will do that then... Nice to have an American armor-suuport level back

But why would it crash, the M4A1? It was in in 2.2 without issue?

No, the KT isn't in... Once you cap Cagney it spawns a regular Tiger I. Only saw the KT in a conquest game I created, never in COOP or SP
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: cannonfodder on 09-01-2010, 13:01:30
Quote
Smite-able guns and the amphebious landing on PDH... thank you, thank you, thank you

I agree, that's the best SP present in this 2.25 release.
Haven't tried it yet, but I don't expect it to offset the disappointment of not getting a single 2.25 map...

Quote
Quote
Comments
Reduce spawn time in SP to 5 secs

The bots will also respawn in that time frame. No good for tactical game. But good for run-and-shoot game.
Ugh, no way man, BF deathmatch maps are torture (there's a few in AIX)...spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die...staying alive for 10 consecutive seconds is impossible...  ::)

I only want to say that Goodwood in Singleplayer crash abfter 20 min of playing somebody got the same problem? Shouldnt  that be solved

Again, haven't tried it, but I figured (hoped?) the AI template fixes would have solved the Goodwood problem.
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: kacklabbe on 09-01-2010, 13:01:55
@djin i thinks its the new 50cal on the top of the tanks
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: kacklabbe on 09-01-2010, 16:01:16
I solved the Problem in Operation goodwood i changed the Sherman M4A1_eu_brit with Sherman_V an the m5a1 Halftrack with the M3a1 and had no CTD after i Played the map serveral times.

the AI maybe has some problems with these 2 Vehicles
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Schultz on 09-01-2010, 17:01:25
I solved the Problem in Operation goodwood i changed the Sherman M4A1_eu_brit with Sherman_V an the m5a1 Halftrack with the M3a1 and had no CTD after i Played the map serveral times.

the AI maybe has some problems with these 2 Vehicles


up tp now, i have no problems with operation goodwood. but just in case, how can i change the vehicles ingame?
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: cannonfodder on 09-01-2010, 17:01:17
Swapping vehicles?

Check this thread (near bottom of first page): http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=2631.0
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: kacklabbe on 09-01-2010, 17:01:12
Schultz you dont have CTD in Goodwood??
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Zoologic on 09-01-2010, 17:01:49

COOP being unbalanced doesn't have to do with my ratios... I have them at 50-50 and it still gives 3/4 of the number to Allies


It is off balance by default. So making it '50' won't balance it. In my case (i tweaked the AI files so it gives me 51 bots instead of default 32), i should slide to '46' to make a balanced team (26 vs 26 -with me being in allied team). '50' will make the game goes like 17 vs 15 (off balance for team 1/axis gets advantage) and in my case (28 vs 24).

Haven't tried it yet, but I don't expect it to offset the disappointment of not getting a single 2.25 map...

Me too mate, i was like expecting more. Because i saw winterhilf joining the team for sometime already (add to that, LegionDCX). But i was like taking it as granted. They provide this for free, I just couldn't complain more.

I tried navmeshing Lebisey and Falaise Pocket to no avail. Re-navmeshing Luettich to get CTDs during loading and re-navmeshing FH2SP Gazala to get bots going off border. It turned out that we have to individually fix some of the building navmeshes so it would be clear of error (there are some Normandy statics that has problem with navmeshing, some of them are in Goodwood, so didn't expect vehicle-changing fix will really fix it).

But I cannot hold the feeling of disappointment though, because this mod was too awesome not to be played right through.

Quote
Again, haven't tried it, but I figured (hoped?) the AI template fixes would have solved the Goodwood problem.

Not every vehicle was re-templated in LegionDcX's intensity AI mod that was said to be applied in the changelog. Even the deployable Vickers .303 MG wasn't given any template (i have to use FH2.15's FH2SP template to make it work). Even the British M4A1 isn't templated yet. Churchill, isn't templated yet. Strangely, i found all airplanes are templated, with the new clivewil's Mustang soooo ready for SP use (only the unused P-47 i dunno).

In mean time, we have somehow now-working Op. Hyacinth, better stability on Supercharge, and official addition of Bardia-16, Fall of Tobruk, and every version of Sidi Rezegh (so far quite stable).
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Schultz on 09-01-2010, 17:01:52
Schultz you dont have CTD in Goodwood??

no, i played the map several time, about 20-30 min. and had no ctd. maybe its just luck  :)
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: kacklabbe on 09-01-2010, 17:01:21
maybe i try to re install FH
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 10-01-2010, 07:01:35
Any chance of getting a file replacement that makes bot tankers fire HE again, WinterHilf? Or anyone?
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: cannonfodder on 10-01-2010, 09:01:21
...Strangely, i found all airplanes are templated, with the new clivewil's Mustang soooo ready for SP use (only the unused P-47 i dunno)...
Yeah, being an AIX dev, everything clivewil makes is bot-friendly.

I just had a particularly shit day yesterday...no new maps and it took me hours to get on a US server, would've jumped on the AEF server but they were running bloody Africa maps... ::)
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 10-01-2010, 09:01:37
Well, I think I was a bit rash in judging the game's AI development up to this point. Further inspection actually made me impressed with some of the developments

We've seen most already in beta (Hopefully, WinterHilf and LegionX aren't regretting having shared this with us since we don't seem as impressed with them now as we should).

Its less about what's new and more about the little things. Save for the tank vs Infantry epic-fail, some tanks in the same map are coded to use mgs instead of HE which is lovely since you'll never know what they're going to hit you with. Now with the lack of HE firing tanks, Bizness' genius in this regard shines through... Will they fire at all, or will they spray. And with bots using UCs bettet than they use Jeeps, be afraid, be very afraid


But more impressive is the fact that all planes ingame are now with AI templates. I decided to toss Gazala into the mix and it plays without a hitch... No need to replace the Hurricane D with a Beau anymore... the bots can fly it right out of the hangar. And the deployable british gun is also coded now.

I thought I was going to be as impressed as I ever could be when I stumbled across Sidi Rezegh. It was the first map to be released with AI outside the originial stock and after too much time playing it, it seemed it couldn't impress me further... that's until I discovered that bots now use the underground bunker and I had to kill an MP40 wielding Jerry 2-floors underground before we could cap that flag :-) I literally had a tear in my eye affter that. And then once we capped all the airfield flags, I decided to quit... then I heard the German tanks rolling in :-D

Need I say more. Excellent work WinterHilf, excellent work LegionX... you guys know your stuff


that said, I think the Brit tanks are too overpowered since the have a Valentines and 2 Matilda's so they are able to take the fight all the way to the German main base and pwn it.

Perhaps an all round removal of bots attacking enemy uncap bases and simply staying put (As done in Luttich) will make defending bots act more reasonably...


Great Job guys...
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Jetu on 10-01-2010, 09:01:08
I've noticed something after I patched 2.25, max bot limit in Coop was lowered to 32 from 48. Or rather, I put 48, and the game ends up putting just 31 bots in the match.  >:(

Anyone else get this?
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 10-01-2010, 13:01:57
I think you are right?! I went to COOP, pat my 1GB RAMed PC for assurance and dragged the dial to 48bots only to find 32 with only one squad for Brits and the rest for axis... I think it was Arberdeen... WHY?!

Also, Crete is now buggered - Most of the textures are gone.. Is it just me? My SMLE was perfectly black as was the parachutes and alot of the terrain including trees!

I decided to plug by BArdia beta 1 into the FH2 files and I just had a ball!
The bots actually used the Pak ?34/36 with ferocity and the 88s were booming throughout the game.. although, sadly pointing in only one direction.. The Italianos were counter-attacking on all fronts, and save for the early part of the battle, when the bridge base was double-capped the first time, the level flew without a hitch...

This map is excellent in SP and shows the bots for their total skill in 2.25... I wonder though, how it and Gazala didn't make it into the final release... they are all but finished from where stand



Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: cannonfodder on 10-01-2010, 14:01:34
I think you are right?! I went to COOP, pat my 1GB RAMed PC for assurance and dragged the dial to 48bots only to find 32 with only one squad for Brits and the rest for axis... I think it was Arberdeen... WHY?!

Dunno about your balance issue, but the bot numbers may have something to do with the weird aidefault file we now have...
Quote
echo *****************************************************************************************
echo AIDefault.ai ****************************************************************************
echo *****************************************************************************************

aiSettings.setNSides 2
aiSettings.setAutoSpawnBots 1

aiSettings.setMaxNBots 64
aiSettings.maxBotsIncludeHumans 1
aiSettings.setBotSkill 0.4

rem To spawn more than 15 bots in SP, use the following lines instead of the three lines above.
rem Note that this is totaly unsupported, it will affect your system's performance
rem and may even crash your game. That being said, you will most likely be able to run a lot
rem more bots than 15 on your system.

rem Example for 32 bot game with expert bots

aiSettings.overrideMenuSettings 1
aiSettings.setMaxNBots 31
aiSettings.maxBotsIncludeHumans 0
aiSettings.setBotSkill 0.85

run BotNames.ai

aiSettings.setInformationGridDimension 32


run AIPathFinding.ai

rem aiDebug.draw 1


rem EOF
See what I mean? I changed the lower MaxNBots and Botskill values, and it worked (in SP, not Coop).


Quote
This map is excellent in SP and shows the bots for their total skill in 2.25... I wonder though, how it and Gazala didn't make it into the final release... they are all but finished from where stand
Have you been drinkin', Djinn? Bardia is in the final release...although that fence bug kills it... :(
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 10-01-2010, 14:01:34
Bardia 16 is in the final release, what I replaced it with was trhe Beta of Bardia 64...baby! :-P

I just found out that Supercharge still CTDs... Got attacked by a guy on an Opel with Mg15 atop... the bots sure love them Mg15s now... he was camping my base and killed me once, so i respawn with AT rifle and take aim and fire... FIRE!... fire?....CTD... FuuuUUUU

Don't know if that's the cause of something else at the same time - My 'boys' all in tanks were attacking the main town so I can't tell... Also with only 32 bots and with bots never dismounting their vehicles, there are barely any infantry anywhere, meaninng, we get to a base, but I need to get there personally in order to cap it...

Also, while bots seem fine with some weapons in SOME maps, they don't seem to care for others in other maps.. For instance, a bot in Bardia.. 64... will camp a PAk34/36 and blast away at anything that moves.. but will never use any AT gun anywhere

I think bots who are idle should use the closest vehicle to them, static or mobile and stay on it.. And when attacked, they should run for the best weapon or vehciel for the job...

Also, German bots STILL don't use gabelte ladung :-(

And Commander AI for mersa Matru and Supercharge is still dodgy with commanders telling bots to cap rear bases once they have jerry onthe run



Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Zoologic on 12-01-2010, 17:01:36
I agree with djinn's earlier post.

I think we judge the official SP release too early. Yeah, i got some maps crashed too. But it is less than before. Luettich is similarly unstable, Supercharge is unplayable, El Alamein more stable, and lastly, Aberdeen still crashes and unplayable.

Look at winterhilf's recent gift: fixed Goodwood. I had a great round there.

-bot is aggressive, they drive and man all stuff around and race to nearby post ASAP.
-when the German tank spawns, they brought it all quickly to Le Mesnil Frementel (front most post with 2 Marders). As if they have no difficulties crossing the railroads and underpasses.
-no stuck points, they all seemingly bug-free, except a few driving habit glitches (stuck in narrow pass, fences, etc).

And look at this: all original vehicle without crashing!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/Bot-ableSherman2.jpg)

Sherman 2, the previously crashing vehicle with bots on it, they wander around for pretty long time. I crushed all German panzers (2 Panthers, 1 StuG40, 1 Pz4) with my Firefly before getting killed by a panzerfaust 30.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Johnsy/Battlefield/FH2/MeonSherman2.jpg)

The bots are sometimes silly. This is Le Mesnil Frementel post and where one of the Sherman 2 spawns (besides Le Preiure). There is a StuG40 camping there and dozens of British bots (several of them inside a Bren carrier). They did nothing! The British bots dropped a lot of Satchel Charges as if it were a vanilla BF2 AT mines.

Right after i did a quick job on the StuG, suddenly a rush of 2 Hanomags arrived with half-full passengers. I killed both of them. One of the British bots managed to slip in a Satchel Charge and stole the kill score.

Overall:

It is a whole lot of improvement from the previous FH2.2

I also play Pointe du Hoc... it is as amazing as Djinn stated! They now ransack buildings, search houses, and fight inside the building! Big improvement there.

I then played Op. Hyacinth... it is also awesome, the advancing SAS bots never stops firing. The whole round was filled with MG, SMG, and rifle firing noises and explosions occasionally.

Clearly, a major improvement. Oh btw, the official Bardia, i replace them with previous FH2.15SP mod's SP packet (Navmesh and AI files only). It worked fine, as it did with 2.2, but they improve a lot more when crossing bridges and do more coordinated attack.

Kudos for the devs!
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 12-01-2010, 19:01:10
Only slight negative is bot tankers not using HE, except those few tanks that use coaz mg, and bots no longer using mg42s, either tripod or bipod. They DO use mg34 tripod now...although I noted it only once in PHL at the opposite side of the road from the 88...

Oh, and their use of AT guns, including the 88 issue

But it plays pretty well altogether for infantry-infantry and tank-tank combat... ironically, the one that never had issues was plane-plane combat and that is still improving with planes attacking ground targets

Ironic, since planes are most hated in MP
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: winterhilf on 12-01-2010, 23:01:05
Bardia is in the final release...although that fence bug kills it... :(
Yeah, it does.
Tried running the destructible fence statics in conquest only but that crashed the server, need to look into possibly putting an ai template onto a static object. :-\
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 13-01-2010, 00:01:05
Like the PDH guns?

couldn't they just bypass the fence - Go around it instead?
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: winterhilf on 13-01-2010, 00:01:23
Tried that but it still confuses the hell out of the bots.
Had this trouble with vanilla destructible fences too on vanilla based maps *scratchhead*
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Eat Uranium on 13-01-2010, 00:01:38
Put something by the wall that causes the bots to drop nades there and destroy the wall, thus solving the pathfinding problems?
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Desertfox on 13-01-2010, 01:01:32
Put something by the wall that causes the bots to drop nades there and destroy the wall, thus solving the pathfinding problems?
I just did it myself when I played
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Zoologic on 13-01-2010, 14:01:09
Yeah, before more bots get stuck, i usually destroy them quickly.
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: Jetu on 16-01-2010, 13:01:13
Yeah, I've been having my share of 2.25 SP Goodwood.
It leads to, altering all the vehicles to Daimler mk1 and Pumas and going high-speed combat.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Jetoo/screen037.png)
(Or dieing from glitching on the rail track crossing)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Jetoo/Raildeath.png)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Jetoo/WoahohBalls.jpg)
To being a sneaky bastard and taking this out for a spin:
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/Jetoo/screen009.jpg)

 8)
Title: Re: General SP in 2.25 - Where we are at
Post by: djinn on 13-03-2010, 21:03:22
Hi WinterHilf

Any possible update or release-able contents?