Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: Rawhide on 08-04-2009, 14:04:42

Title: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Rawhide on 08-04-2009, 14:04:42
So, I'm no fly boy but I as well an any old grumpy infantry grunt also like to take a spin in a Messerschmidt or a Hurricane once in awhile

So please share your tips to make our travels in the North Africa Desert more pleasant
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Die Happy on 08-04-2009, 16:04:43
just a few basic thing i want to add

USE THE MOUSELOOOK
in this mode you cant steer the plane when doing so but it gives you a much better overview.
specially in dogfights this can give you the edge over the enemy.

another thing is the airbrakes, i cant count the times i shock a hurricane of my stuka tail with this nifty little thing. if you suddenly "step" on the breaks when the enemy is in a bad position behind you he will fly past you most of the time giving you a chance to shot him down or flee.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Kildar on 08-04-2009, 16:04:57
Allied planes tend to do turns faster then their axis counter parts
Axis planes climb faster then their allied counterparts.

So when you have a plane on your tail, as axis go for more loop de loops. If you are Allied start going left or right and dont stop till they stop chasing you.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Schneider on 08-04-2009, 17:04:08
To add a question here...
I wonder if my feeling is correct - the Messerschmidt has a faster max. speed, yes? And does it also accelerate faster?
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Kildar on 08-04-2009, 18:04:09
I think allied fighters have a faster Acceleration. The 109 might have a faster top speed.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 09-04-2009, 01:04:12
Hoo boy.  So many tips, but I can't find the words for some of them.

First off, it's usually a horrible idea to go vertical if the enemy is right on your tail.  If you go nose up, he'll follow, and while both are of you are bleeding airspeed, his guns will line up nicely with your fuselage.  However, if you jink left and right a bit first, and pull up as soon as you think he's lost visual contact on you (hopefully he's neglecting his mouselook), you might be able to get the drop on him (In this situation, maybe try an Immelman Turn*).  Finally, the 109 seems to perform better in the vertical plane than its competitors.

Next, be sure to vary your speed when necessary.  If you go balls to wall the whole time, someone who lets off on his throttle a little might be able to get an advantage on you, be it out turning you or even "Slamming on the brakes" and "making [you] fly right by" (Right Maverick?).  Even in a dogfight, if the enemy is behind you, try letting up on the throttle and engaging the airbrake.  The enemy pilot might over shoot his mark, at which point you push the power back up and try secure your advantage.

Try to keep your altitude.  The higher you are, the more options you have available to you.  If you're high enough, you can try diving to the deck, hoping your opponent misjudges something and smashes into the sand, or you can try a Split-S** to quickly reverse your direction and confuse your opponent.  Practice to find out the correct altitude where you can safely perform maneuvers.  Also, the planes can perform extremely tight turns at the end of a high speed dive, so use that to your advantage (it's likely a side effect of the BF2 engine being built for jets instead of propeller-driven planes, but if you have to live with it, might as well use it to help you).

A quick tip: don't forget your rudder controls.  If you bank left and rudder right, you will be able to maintain approximately the same altitude, depending on the angle of your roll.  This way you can continue turn with your opponent without losing too much altitude.  You can also use your rudder to assist in targeting.  Because the airplane guns in FH2 don't have any convergence (yet :crosses fingers:), they fire directly straight ahead.  If you're strafing a ground target and your guns are hitting directly left and right of the target, try sweeping them back and forth across the enemy by using your rudder.  Also, if you're right behind an enemy plane and aren't doing as much damage as you think you should be, try adjusting your aim with the rudder.  The best place to hit an enemy plane is the forward half of the fuselage (i.e the engine and cockpit).  The wings and tail of the plane (or more correctly, their hit-boxes) are kind of wonky, especially in dogfights.  The BeauFighter's wings (at least around the engines) seem to be ok to aim for, thoguh.

Finally, the Dicta Boelcke can be used even for FH2.  Even though it was originally conceived for WW1 era dogfighting, it stills holds true.  A more in-depth explanation can be found at Wikipedia: Dicta Boelcke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicta_Boelcke).

1: Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible keep the sun behind you.

2: Always carry through an attack when you started it.

3: Fire only at close range and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

4: Always keep your eye on your opponent and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.

5: In any form of attack it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.

6: If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught but fly to meet him.

7: When over the enemy's line never forget your own line of retreat.

8: For the Squadron: Attack on principle in groups of four or six. When the fight breaks up into a series of single combats take care that several do not go for one opponent.

Happy hunting and see you in the skies!

* Immelman Turn:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Immelman.gif)

** Split-S:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Splits.gif)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Rawhide on 11-04-2009, 17:04:27
Damn, I think the mouse look view (ctrl+mouse) feels so stiffed and forced, I would really like a more "human" touch on it, like if you could look more to the far right and left

Now it's just as far as straight right and left and nothing beyond

Do I get your support in a possible suggestion thread? :)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: ZeroSen on 12-04-2009, 02:04:43
And if you are good enough and have someone on your tail you can always try a snap roll, that will bleed off some airspeed and will put you on the enemy's tail.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: [ret]azreal on 13-04-2009, 20:04:32
I've always found that newer/inexperienced pilots tend to stay low, exposing themselves to AA fire while they search for targets. So a good tip is to stay just below fog level, roll upside down and use mouse look to search for enemy fighters below you.

Also make sure you check your 6 constantly, as a 109 with its centerline MGs can down a spitfire from behind before he realizes what is happening.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Schneider on 13-04-2009, 22:04:44
I got a question there..

I wanted to try a bit of flying in the SP.
I am steering with the keyboard (wasd) and the joystick.
Now to use the mouselook I have to switch the hands to the mouse - that sucks.
How do you guys do that? Do you use some tool that enables mouselook with the coolie hat or something? And if yes, if you use that or a similar tool, can you still use your mouse in a normal fashion, i.e. can I still do infantry fighting without problems?
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Zrix on 13-04-2009, 22:04:51
I got a question there..

I wanted to try a bit of flying in the SP.
I am steering with the keyboard (wasd) and the joystick.
Now to use the mouselook I have to switch the hands to the mouse - that sucks.
How do you guys do that? Do you use some tool that enables mouselook with the coolie hat or something? And if yes, if you use that or a similar tool, can you still use your mouse in a normal fashion, i.e. can I still do infantry fighting without problems?
What stick is it?

If it's a Saitek it can be easily configured in the programming software.

And yes, adding a mouse function to a hat should have no impact on the regular mouse behaviour.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Schneider on 13-04-2009, 23:04:17
Nah it's not a Saitek.. thanks anyways.
I just thought I'd remember someone saying there was a tool out there which did this in the old forums.. hmmm
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Zrix on 13-04-2009, 23:04:09
Nah it's not a Saitek.. thanks anyways.
I just thought I'd remember someone saying there was a tool out there which did this in the old forums.. hmmm
Hm, yea I remember something like that too. Can't seem to find it though.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Schneider on 13-04-2009, 23:04:07
All hail me, I have it, Niam said:

Quote
There is a nifty little programm called JoyToKey which binds keystrokes and mouse movement to your coolie hat. I'ts then possible to look around with your coolie hat without pressing any additional keys.

Thank you Niam.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Zrix on 13-04-2009, 23:04:39
All hail me, I have it, Niam said:

Quote
There is a nifty little programm called JoyToKey which binds keystrokes and mouse movement to your coolie hat. I'ts then possible to look around with your coolie hat without pressing any additional keys.

Thank you Niam.
Sweet. I was googling mouse to stick and key to stick, with no luck.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 13-04-2009, 23:04:10
I got a question there..

I wanted to try a bit of flying in the SP.
I am steering with the keyboard (wasd) and the joystick.
Now to use the mouselook I have to switch the hands to the mouse - that sucks.
How do you guys do that? Do you use some tool that enables mouselook with the coolie hat or something? And if yes, if you use that or a similar tool, can you still use your mouse in a normal fashion, i.e. can I still do infantry fighting without problems?

Yes.  Check out Joy2Key.  Set the Hat switch to be both Mouse Movement AND the FreeLook key (default CTRL, I think).  You will likely have to have two Joy2Key applications open while playing (one for the mouse movement, and one for the "activate Mouselook key"), but it works wonders.

Read these posts by Real-BadSeed on the old forums:

Quote from: Real-BadSeed;4090917
Its a program that allows you to map 2 functions, to one button on a joystick. So when you move the hat button, it send 2 commands. One that you are holding the ctrl key? down, and second, that you are moving the hat to look in a direction. So it maps the holding of the key function to each hat movement, aswell as the look-this-way function..

Hope that makes sense lol

program is JoyToKey, it comes with basic instructions

Quote from: Real-BadSeed;4094304
You need a .bat file that loads 2 different configs for the one button, one config emulates the pushing of the key, the other emulates the HAT controls. So when its running, there will be two icons in the tray.

It took me awhile too. I googled JoyToKey, and i ended up using another guys configs, that he had posted.

But i'll post the whole folder from my program files, it includes everything needed for using this with BF2 or its mods. You might be able to run the .bat and it works, but you will probably have to look through the files and adjust it to your equipment. Unless you have the same joystick and so on.

But this will at least show you how its suppose to work. Unzip and place in program files, make a shortcut to the bat file, put it on your desk top. I made a nice icon for mine of a little plane. When you double click the shortcut to the .BAT file, it should start up.

Hope this helps

P.S. right click on the files, to open the menu, and pick edit from the list to change stuff, especially the bat file. Left clicking will make some of the files run.

And here is the File he provided: Real-BadSeed's Joy2Key setup (http://forums.filefront.com/attachments/forgotten-hope-general-discussion/59962d1197755826-question-free-look-aircraft-joytokey-setup.zip)

I have a Saitek Cyborg EVO Joystick and have been using that file for my mouselook since he posted it over a year ago.  If you have a different Joystick, you might have to tweak it a little.

EDIT:  It doesn't affect Infantry fighting at all.  In fact, if you feel the need, you can use the hat switch to activate mouselook on anything that has it (like tanks) if it's easier for you.

Also, why are you using WASD to steer your plane?  Doesn't your Joystick have a Rudder/Yaw function?  My stick can be rotated around it axis as well as moving back and forth and side to side.  I use the rotation around the axis for rudder controls.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Schneider on 14-04-2009, 01:04:17
Hey Ionizer, awesome post man. Rep is gone, but feel kissed.  ;)
My Joystick is not one of the pro-things, in fact it was a present by my gf, but I like it, though it's not of one of those "big" producers like Saitek or Logitech. But yes, it has a throttle with rudder control.

I use WSAD because of the stupid way BF manages the throttle. Afaik you can only have the "throttle up" (standard W) and "stop/back" (S). So if I put my hands on the throttle stick and the joystick, I can't control the throttle. I could set the gas to one of the joystick buttons, but I think I can only reach 2 of them without switching my grip... well except. Hmm, I'm thinking right now. If I would set throttle to the front button, usually the FIRE button (index finger), it might possibly work, setting the 2nd button (thumb, usually the 2nd FIRE button = cannons) to switch to the aiming view and setting 3 and 4 (on top of the joystick, next to the coolie hat) to fire the weapons.

Or, how do you set this? I assume you have another small button on your joystick you can easily reach?
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Tiny on 14-04-2009, 12:04:39
I fly alot. Alot of kraut planes since I'm pretty much always axis.

Me109 climbs much better, so it's pretty logical to go vertical.

But, to much vertical and your an easy target. That's why I always combine going up with rudder & turn. If it's a good pilot on your tail they can hang on for quite a while but slowly and surely they give in. They simply can't mantain that rate of climb/turn.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 15-04-2009, 00:04:21
Hey Ionizer, awesome post man. Rep is gone, but feel kissed.  ;)
My Joystick is not one of the pro-things, in fact it was a present by my gf, but I like it, though it's not of one of those "big" producers like Saitek or Logitech. But yes, it has a throttle with rudder control.

I use WSAD because of the stupid way BF manages the throttle. Afaik you can only have the "throttle up" (standard W) and "stop/back" (S). So if I put my hands on the throttle stick and the joystick, I can't control the throttle. I could set the gas to one of the joystick buttons, but I think I can only reach 2 of them without switching my grip... well except. Hmm, I'm thinking right now. If I would set throttle to the front button, usually the FIRE button (index finger), it might possibly work, setting the 2nd button (thumb, usually the 2nd FIRE button = cannons) to switch to the aiming view and setting 3 and 4 (on top of the joystick, next to the coolie hat) to fire the weapons.

Or, how do you set this? I assume you have another small button on your joystick you can easily reach?

Umm?  What was the question?

This my Joystick and Config:

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s166/Ionizer_1/Random/JoyStickconfig.jpg)

(If your JoyStick has less buttons, there are a few that aren't so important [like the "Switch Weapons" command, which is only useful in the Stuka, and the "Enter/Exit Vehicle" and "Parachute" keys] that can go onto the keyboard.  I would say the "Primary Fire," "Secondary Fire," "Gunsights," "Rear Chase," "Mouselook" and "AirBrake" are absolutely necessary to be on the stick, in easy reach.  The "Map" Key is also useful, especially if you like to stay above the clouds and dive on your targets [which you absolutely should be doing].)

The throttle works just like it should (mine is a lever, not a button).  If I have it at 75% forward power, it gives the plane enough power to get off the ground and fly, but I can push the power up if I need to.  The response isn't instantaneous (just like it shouldn't be, it takes a second or so to get to the new speed, depending on the difference between the two speeds).  The point is: it's not "all or nothing" like your post implies.

If you post a picture of your joystick maybe I can get a better picture of what you are saying.  Or just tell me the name of the JoyStick and I'll try to find a picture online.

EDIT:  My grip is: Right Hand on the stick, Right Index finger on Primary Fire Trigger, Right Thumb on Secondary Fire Button, but can easily reach any of the buttons on the head of the stick, including the hat switch.  Left Hand rests on the base, with Left Thumb and Index Finger controlling throttle, and Left Pinkie Finger on the AirBrake.  I used to have the "Switch Weapons" and "AirBrake" buttons reversed, but I found I couldn't engage the AirBrake and activate my Secondary Fire (drop bombs or fire cannons) at the same time (or at least not comfortably), so I switched them around.  Now that I think about, I recently (after I drew up that picture) moved the "Enter/Exit Vehicle" and "Parachute" buttons to the other side of the base (it has an identical set of buttons over there, the hand rest on the stick can be reversed for Left Handed pilots, the whole stick is symmetrical if you remove the hand rest) because I was accidentally jumping out of planes in the middle of dogfights.  In practice, I use the keyboard buttons for "Enter/Exit Vehicle" (in my case: Delete) and "Parachute" (in my case: Backspace or Forward Slash [I can never remember and just smash both of them when I need to deploy the 'chute]) a lot more often than I use the ones I placed on the Stick.  I don't know why...
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Tiny on 15-04-2009, 12:04:33
Oh, and flying with jostick in BF2 sucks. My honest oppinion. Since the flying is so straight forward. And I got the same one as the above.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Schneider on 15-04-2009, 14:04:56
@Ionizer, yeah, I was under the impression that the throttle control in BF2 was purely digital, so thanks for clearing me up.
And as I said, I got more of a budget joystick as I don't use it quite often, but I'm quite content with it:

http://shop.sector.sk/img/speed-link_black_widow_flightstick_SL-6640.jpg (http://shop.sector.sk/img/speed-link_black_widow_flightstick_SL-6640.jpg)

Thanks by the way, your postings have been very informative for me.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Lydecker on 21-04-2009, 20:04:29
A few things from BF'42 vet..  ;D

All I can say is that when you find a pilot superior to your skills, fly against him until you learn how to down him. All pilots have a weakness. Sometimes even the best miss the sight of enemy, don't bother with their rear (some Stuka there, bwahah..) or are just too concentrated on the task at hand.

I can't say anything for the JoyToKey software, I have never needed it since I started flying on BF '42. I have a.. how would i describe it.. a sixth sense and years of experience about what the pilot in my sights or on my six is going to do. ;) Also, the view behind you is the most useful and will often tell what enemy is pulling out of his sleeve next. I rarely go down (unless on field rearming or repairing.. or that stupid tree/pole there) and it's pretty much because of this awareness I keep on enemy. There are hints of what's going on all the time. I keep track of the map, the kills (who killed what with what) and I link these all the time. Of course I drop most of this when target emerges.

The map tells you SO much even if nobody spots for enemy planes or other targets properly. Someone dies to a 109 strafe and disappears from the map.. I see you. Someone (in current FH2) spots a Spit without binocs, making himself blink yellow on the map (this could be a bug, but I rarely see the actual target  :-\).. I see you. There's a huge load of kills for Hurricane and only one flag where fighting is going on.. I see you. The information is there.

When someone gets on your tail without you noticing it, you still have a chance. More than often (happens to all) the guy on your tail shoots just a bit too soon and you can see tracers go by. Time for a half barrel roll with a dive against enemy. Or fake split-S followed by real split-S. A thousand choices and almost all of them can and will save you. Just don't pull straight up or keep going around :p A good pilot will shoot you if you go straight up or take some distance and boom 'n zoom you while you turn and burn.. You will soon learn to keep correct height for these manoeuvres.

Only thing that really makes me sad is that DICE left out the gravity on BF2.. BF'42 is just SO much more fun when going against good pilot and that's why flying is fun. In FH2 I sometimes get dissed by other players when I don't use 109 to strafe something for kills, but entertain the 2-3 enemy planes with it. Bleh..

Anyway, keep your head cool, lead your targets more when you think it's enough and check your six every chance you get. Also, offline training is excellent for manoeuvres and all pilots love Il-2 Sturmovik: 1946 :)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: flyboy_fx on 21-04-2009, 23:04:03
what keyboard button dose the dive brakes on the stuka?
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 22-04-2009, 00:04:51
Erm...  I think its default to x?  Scratch that, default is apparently shift.  The FH2 Devs use the BF2 "Afterburner" function as the FH2 "Airbrake" function.  It seems to work on all planes in FH2.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: [ret]azreal on 22-04-2009, 03:04:39
"X" is your gunsights. "Shift" will work your airbrakes on the Stuka.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 23-04-2009, 00:04:56
Sorry, I don't play with default controls, and I fly with a joystick anyway.  I'll edit my post above to avoid confusion.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: von.small on 24-04-2009, 11:04:17
Don't forget to fly high at fog level, and dont be scared to dive down on targets, "use the force luke" assume where your enemy will be (gun emplacements, grey flags, airfield), you won't always have enough time to spot them.

Avoid continuous moronic circling, if your target starts to cirlce, give up, of course I am not saying you can't shoot them down, a combination of acceleration and air brake will eventually put you in line for a very small window of opportunity for a cockpit shot. - But repetative circling is the destroyer of flying fun.

you can instantly tell a mouse flyer from a joystick flyer, mouse flyers fluctuate when trying to fly in a straight line, like they are resting on thermals or something.  Now someone will come along (because this is the internet and someone always disagrees) and say "Thats not me" but you can guarantee that 99% of public players if they are using a mouse to fly will go into a circling motion once you try and shoot them down.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Tiny on 24-04-2009, 17:04:50
It's important to keep a good eye on the minimap. Keep up with the battle and see where support is needed the most.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Kildar on 24-04-2009, 19:04:32
"repetative circling is the destroyer of flying fun."

Don't call it unfun, because the other guy does not want to die when you get on their tail. In a hurricane or Spitfire circling against someone on your tail is a legitimate tactic.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Fuchs on 24-04-2009, 19:04:23
Haha, I like to do that. Who can hold out the boring and mousehand overloading circling the longest???
I use it to test their patience, if they are really in for a long and though dogfight.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Blitzkrieger on 12-05-2009, 14:05:07
Just a quick question here:
I am using a pretty budget joystick (Logitech attack 3)that doesn't even have a z-axis  >:(. It has a trigger and 4 buttons on the head of the stick.

The 6 base buttons I almost never use but i'd like to make one of them mouselook except that i hate using my left hand to move the mouse while having to take my right hand off the stick.
 
My question: Is it possible to configure my joystick to "mouselook" after pressing a base button? Or is it only possible to look with the mouse? This is pretty much my only gripe with flying in BF.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 12-05-2009, 15:05:49
(http://83.3.9.58/laptop/logitech/joy/logitech_attack3_2.jpg)

Is that your stick?  It doesn't have a hat-switch.  I think your question is whether or not you can configure it to recognize the stick itself as mouse input (in other words, pressing a button makes the stick act a giant hat-switch)?

You can try to use Joy2Key to make the joystick movements directly correlate to mouse movement.  It might make flying feel a little different.  First you would have to get Joy2Key (here (http://www.electracode.com/4/joy2key/JoyToKey%20English%20Version.htm), the download is at the very bottom of the page), then configure it to make the joystick act as mouse movement (See below).  Then configure your BF2 Controls for flying to use mouse input, and assign one of your joystick buttons to the "MouseLook" command.

If you do that, you should be able to fly normally with the stick, then when you push your Mouselook button on your stick, you should be able to move the stick around to look around.  I'm not entirely sure that all this will work, but it should in theory...

Here's what the configuration should end up being:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s166/Ionizer_1/Screenshots/J2Khelp.jpg)

Tell me if it works.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Blitzkrieger on 12-05-2009, 16:05:43
Yeah thats the one and yes i want the actual stick movement to be recognized as the mouselook.

I will try this when i get home as i am on a school computer right now  ;D

Thankfully they don't block anything FH related!
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Blitzkrieger on 17-05-2009, 04:05:59
This worked great at first but unfortunatley there is a hitch.

I tried it out and it turns out that either the mouselook or the flying controls have to be inverted for this to work.

What I mean is if you set it the way ionizer displays the mouselook is standard but the flying is inverted (pushing forward on the joy makes you go up)

I decided not to use this because I can't really work the mouselook when it is inverted and just made the mouselook the left mouse button.

but still if u have no hat switch you should look into this.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: verg_6 on 17-05-2009, 04:05:38
I consider myself a pretty decent pilot (ask anyone who has been dive-bombed by me via Stuka), so here are my tips.

1) Use those rudder controls. Your turns are tighter, and it helps you land hits on small targets. It is essential for the latter, as the FH team didn't implement ANY convergence for aircraft weaponry. Hopefully this will be fixed in Normandy.
 
2) Always take a look behind you (C-key) every once in a while.  No one likes to have a surprise rear-attack (insert 'That's what she said' jokes here)

3) If you DO have someone on your tail, do not, under any circumstances, go into a steep climb if your sure they can see you. Almost all of my fighter kills are due to my opponent going into a climb, and me nailing him with rounds as he inevitably slows or even outright stalls
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Blitzkrieger on 17-05-2009, 05:05:21
Almost all of my fighter kills are due to my opponent going into a climb, and me nailing him with rounds as he inevitably slows or even outright stalls

Aww comon don't give it away  ;D
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 17-05-2009, 19:05:52
This worked great at first but unfortunatley there is a hitch.

I tried it out and it turns out that either the mouselook or the flying controls have to be inverted for this to work.

What I mean is if you set it the way ionizer displays the mouselook is standard but the flying is inverted (pushing forward on the joy makes you go up)

I decided not to use this because I can't really work the mouselook when it is inverted and just made the mouselook the left mouse button.

but still if u have no hat switch you should look into this.

Sorry it didn't work for you.  I did figure that the inverted thing might be an issue, but I just figured you could adapt (I personally use the mouselook inverted, even though I have a hat switch, it's just more comfortable for me). 

EDIT:  You said that the if the controls are inverted (as normal for a joystick, ie pull back to pitch up) the mouselook is also inverted like that?  There might a fix.

First set up it up like last time.  But add a function to temporarily use a different config when you press a button (that button will be the one you keyed to the mouselook in BF2).  In this example picture, I just used "Button 1."  (To do this, first hit the "preferences" tab on the right (blue arrow below), then set "Number of Joysticks to configure" to 2, then click the Joysticks Tab, then configure whatever your Mouselook button is, then in the "Special" configuration tab, then set the middle option to "Joystick 2")

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s166/Ionizer_1/Screenshots/J2Khelp-2.jpg)

After that,  hit the "Joystick 2" tab on top (red arrow below) and configure it the same as before, but invert the Y-Axis in the controls (yellow circle):

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s166/Ionizer_1/Screenshots/J2Khelp2.jpg)

Don't put the "Use Joystick2" thing in the second one.

That might fix it.  Tell me if it works.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Blitzkrieger on 27-05-2009, 01:05:50
Alright i'll give this a go.

At this point i'm so confused just looking at all the screenshots i'm not going to bother elaborating on the subject but i'll see if it works and report back  ;D
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: wuschel on 23-06-2009, 02:06:46
Nice topic  :D

By the way, are there any pilots who fly with the mouse and keyboard or keyboard only? Or is this rather not recommended.. meaning that I should stay a landlubber..
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Eat Uranium on 23-06-2009, 02:06:23
I'd imagine lots of people fly without joysticks.  I do on the rare occasions I'm not in a tank on Gazala.  It is hard to go up against joystick using 'ace' pilots, but then most of my problems come from inconvenient lag spikes.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-06-2009, 14:06:19
I use the keyboard. I'm useless in a dogfight, but Ground strafing, Surprising Axis planes with the beaufighter, is not a problem for me


Just remeber=Spitfire= Turn left or right to evade
                   ME109= Dive or climb to evade
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Slayer on 23-06-2009, 16:06:53
I'm almost never flying anymore, but I used to fly a lot in BF42 and in FH1 and I have never used a joystick. I could give joystick fighterpilots a run for their money, too.  :D
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Venous on 27-06-2009, 17:06:47
I just can't get this to work. I don't know how to set the hat-switch controls in joy2key. (the controls are not there?) 
And the file you linked Ionizer..whats that for? I can't do anything with it.

I'm using microsoft sidewinder precision 2

http://www.selectmore.com/images/products/hires/300218.jpg (http://www.selectmore.com/images/products/hires/300218.jpg)

Please explain how to do this   ???
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-06-2009, 18:06:19
Venous:

The file I linked to contains the stuff that lets the Hat switch work.  If you downloaded it, those files should create two JoytoKey "profiles" that should work.  I've been using it so long that I forget what it actually does, sorry.  You can do it manually, just follow the steps below.

Download JoytoKey.  After that, open the program and hit the "Create" button at the bottom.  Name it whatever you want (mine is named BF2).  Go to "Preferences" on the right and hit the checkbox that says "Use POV Switches."  Click "Joysticks" on the right to bring you back to the right tab.  Now, right click on "POV1:UP" and select "Configure this button."  Hit the "Keyboard" tab at the top if it isn't selected.  Click on the first box marked "Disabled" and it should turn yellow.  Now hit whatever key is your "Mouselook" key in BF2 (default Left Ctrl).  Then hit OK.  Repeat for POV1:DOWN, POV1:LEFT, and POV1:RIGHT.  Make them all your "Mouselook" key.  It should look like this:

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s166/Ionizer_1/Screenshots/J2Khelp3.jpg)

Now, hit the "Create" button again and name it whatever you want (mine is BF2a).  Enable the POV Switches in "Preferences" again if they aren't.  Now Configure "POV1:UP."  Switch it over to the "Mouse" tab in the configure window.  Slide the Vertical "Cursor Movement" Slider all the way up.  Hit okay.  Now Configure "POV1:DOWN."  Switch it over to the "Mouse" tab in the configure window.  Slide the Vertical "Cursor Movement" Slider all the way down.  Hit okay.  Now Configure "POV1:LEFT."  Switch it over to the "Mouse" tab in the configure window.  Slide the Horizontal "Cursor Movement" Slider all the way left.  Hit okay.  Now Configure "POV1:RIGHT."  Switch it over to the "Mouse" tab in the configure window.  Slide the Horizontal "Cursor Movement" Slider all the way right.  Hit okay.  It should look like this:

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s166/Ionizer_1/Screenshots/J2Khelp4.jpg)

Now you're all set.  Whenever you want to play FH2, open two copies of JoytoKey.  There should be two little Icons in your task bar at the bottom right of your screen.  Right click them and make sure one has "BF2" (or whatever you named your first profile) checked while the other one has "BF2a" (or whatever you named the other profile) checked.  Now you can play.  When you engage your Hat Switch in-game, JoytoKey will make the computer think that you pressed your "Mouselook" button and moved the Mouse in the direction you pushed the Hat Switch.  Thus "tricking" your computer (and BF2) into letting you use the Mouselook with your Hat Switch.  Only downside is that lose control of your plane while looking around, but that happens whether you use JoytoKey or not.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Venous on 27-06-2009, 19:06:32
Thanks!  ;D

Only one problem..It won't let me open 2 copies.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-06-2009, 19:06:43
I don't know why it won't let you, it lets me open however many I want with one shortcut.  Try creating another shortcut of JoytoKey and name it JoytoKey2.  Then use both of them.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Venous on 27-06-2009, 19:06:52
Nope, not working

Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-06-2009, 19:06:41
Same version as mine.  When you hit the start button, does JoytoKey appear in the recently used Programs list?  Try clicking on that.  Are you using Vista?  I'm on XP, maybe that has something to do with it...
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Venous on 27-06-2009, 19:06:39
Same version as mine.  When you hit the start button, does JoytoKey appear in the recently used Programs list?  Try clicking on that.  Are you using Vista?  I'm on XP, maybe that has something to do with it...
Yes it appears there but it won't let me open up another one, I just hear that sound you know and then the joytokey window comes up again(the one which is already running).. I'm using XP
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-06-2009, 19:06:26
Try using that thing that BadSeed uploaded.

Quote from: Real-BadSeed;4094304
You need a .bat file that loads 2 different configs for the one button, one config emulates the pushing of the key, the other emulates the HAT controls. So when its running, there will be two icons in the tray.

It took me awhile too. I googled JoyToKey, and i ended up using another guys configs, that he had posted.

But i'll post the whole folder from my program files, it includes everything needed for using this with BF2 or its mods. You might be able to run the .bat and it works, but you will probably have to look through the files and adjust it to your equipment. Unless you have the same joystick and so on.

But this will at least show you how its suppose to work. Unzip and place in program files, make a shortcut to the bat file, put it on your desk top. I made a nice icon for mine of a little plane. When you double click the shortcut to the .BAT file, it should start up.

Hope this helps

P.S. right click on the files, to open the menu, and pick edit from the list to change stuff, especially the bat file. Left clicking will make some of the files run.

And here is the File he provided: Real-BadSeed's Joy2Key setup (http://forums.filefront.com/attachments/forgotten-hope-general-discussion/59962d1197755826-question-free-look-aircraft-joytokey-setup.zip)

Once you download it, extract it into the Program Files folder.  Then go in try running the .bat thing.  Maybe that's the key to this conundrum...
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Venous on 27-06-2009, 19:06:52
That file doesn't work for me (yes I changed it to .bat)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-06-2009, 20:06:42
I have no idea.  Seriously, just double clicking the shortcut doesn't bring up another copy of JoytoKey?  Sorry bro.  The only thing I can think of is to make one of the buttons on your joystick the "Mouselook" button in BF2, then just run the profile in JoytoKey that makes the hat switch=Mouse movement.  It's a little more clunky, but it should work.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Venous on 27-06-2009, 20:06:39
Found a solution  :P

Opened up Joytokey.ini and changed

AllowMultipleRunning=1

Wow I'm so proud of myself now.

Works great now, thanks for the help  :)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-06-2009, 20:06:22
Heh, good to hear it.  I wish I thought of that.  Then I could continue to pretend that I know stuff about computers, heh.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Kubador on 27-06-2009, 21:06:32
Venous, you just wait till I buy my joystick!
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Krätzer on 28-06-2009, 06:06:29
Why the Spitfire is called in the Title Spitfeuer?
In German it is something like "Feuerspucker" not Spitfeuer   8)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: evildeathmonkey on 21-08-2009, 20:08:59
hi, i was looking too improve flying in BF(and FH) for a while now.
the joytokey thing sounds like a great way to so.
but i can't get it to work ''in game''   it works fine on the desktop (i can move the mouse pointer with the joystick)
but when i try it in the game it doesn't work?
any ideas what the problem might be?

Edit: i got it to work. f***** vista:P    i really like joytokey:) thanks
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Rawhide on 23-08-2009, 01:08:09
Why the Spitfire is called in the Title Spitfeuer?
In German it is something like "Feuerspucker" not Spitfeuer   8)
Hmmm, think I got it from the movie Battle of Britain. Or maybe from an old number of PC Gamer. I don't know.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 23-08-2009, 01:08:59
Why the Spitfire is called in the Title Spitfeuer?
In German it is something like "Feuerspucker" not Spitfeuer   8)
Hmmm, think I got it from the movie Battle of Britain. Or maybe from an old number of PC Gamer. I don't know.

A better cop-out would have been "It was a typo."  :D
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: :| Hi on 23-08-2009, 23:08:23
Nice topic  :D

By the way, are there any pilots who fly with the mouse and keyboard or keyboard only? Or is this rather not recommended.. meaning that I should stay a landlubber..

I usually do, (And on a laptop too![On bf 42]) my brother goes for keyboard only but i would suggest mouse + keyboard and eventually you should get into using a joystick
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Rawhide on 25-08-2009, 08:08:25
I as well only fly with joystick and keyboard (which you might have seen on hslan when I go crashing down)

Works well but a joystick is optimal

Hey, all you guys with joystick how do you use the freelook view? One hand on the joystick and one on the mouse or any other special solution?
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 25-08-2009, 19:08:37
JoytoKey is really the only solution I know of.  About half the posts in this topic are devoted to getting JoytoKey to work.  Of course, it's only needed if you use a joystick, mouse and keyboard flyers don't really need it.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Gl@mRock on 25-08-2009, 22:08:33
What joystick would you recommend for FH2 flying?

Thx!
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 26-08-2009, 00:08:31
Whatever feels comfortable in your hand.  Make sure it has an adjustable throttle, Z-Axis (you can twist the stick itself for rudder control), and a Hat switch.  The more buttons it has, the better.  In addition to the firing trigger, 3-5 extra buttons on the head is nice.  A few extra buttons on the base are nice too.  In all, you need buttons for Fire, Alt Fire, Map, Gunsights, Airbrake, and Rear View.  Extra buttons for Change Ammo, Enter/Exit Vehicle, and Parachute are nice to have but not really necessary.  You can always find some use for extra buttons, but you will definitely notice if you don't have enough for the basics.

I have a Saitek Cyborg EVO Wireless Joystick.  It was $20-30 dollars a few years ago and works perfectly fine for me.  Looking through this topic, other people have mentioned what kind of joystick they have and what they think of it, so look back through the topic for more suggestions.  I wouldn't spend too much money, especially if it's only for BF2/FH2.  As long it has the stuff I listed above, it should be fine.  If you want, post which joysticks you're considering and we can critique them, I guess.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: :| Hi on 26-08-2009, 01:08:41
So....

You think this is good enough? haha



Imagine flying with that :o

http://www.lekseecon.nl/images/FlightSimulator/Boeing-767-flightsimulator.JPG


(Sorry old link was a 404)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 26-08-2009, 01:08:26
Whatever that is, it doesn't show up for me.  I don't know if the link is broken or what...
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: ottozeimer on 07-09-2009, 09:09:10
fighter plane tips

ground attack:

tip 1. if you see friendlies killed by 25pounder, go the the enemy main base and do couple of strafe runs on enemy artillery - saves many friendly lives and gives you and easy target that 90 % of time cant shoot back, i bet they are eating chips and sipping coke while on artillery.

Tip 2 use the map/mini map. you see the grey AA icon dissapear, the go somewhere further away. Once you know the map you can practice dive attack on the AA. a good vertical attack is unstoppable by a single AA.

dogfighting

tip 3 if you are chased by enemy fighter, go to your nearest plane, even if it is the slow stuka or spotter plane. that gives your opponent to think about rechoosing the target., which gives you enough time to do a loop or a 360% and get on the 6 of the enemy. of course, it might sacrifice your wingman, but its better 1 plane for 1 plane than you and your wingmen on the ground.

tip 4 if a friendly reports that he mounted the AA, try to go near him and dogfight there the chances are that he can distinguish the planes and he would shoot down the enemy.

tip 5 never attack other plane from other position than right behind him. otherwise - waste of ammo. This was especially true before the hit-box fix with the 1.5. still it is 10 times easier to down a plane if you get on his six because you can stay there for long and do a target practise. slow down with air breaks if necessary but a 1 sec MG burst kills anything.

tip 6 the most important tip of all - as everyone said - use the mouselook but do it this way - fly sideways. when searching almost always sideways, or even belly up. that gives you more view on possible enemies. sideways - look at one side, then roll to other side and  search again. works well for any plane. you see a trail of smoke? maybe a silhouette, now get on his tail and teach him some manners
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: pailhead on 27-10-2009, 14:10:04
I managed to set it up, but it is extremely slow. I tried it on the typhoon in totalize and it takes a few seconds to move the view all the way in one direction. Is there a way to make this faster, or even absolute... like as soon as you click it moves to the extreme?

Also, why is the pov thing limited to only 4 buttons, mine has 8 directions?
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: ottozeimer on 27-10-2009, 16:10:04
I managed to set it up, but it is extremely slow. I tried it on the typhoon in totalize and it takes a few seconds to move the view all the way in one direction. Is there a way to make this faster, or even absolute... like as soon as you click it moves to the extreme?

Also, why is the pov thing limited to only 4 buttons, mine has 8 directions?

well under the tab "Actions" in Joy2key, there is speed, acceleration, set it up for your convenience. just make sure you chose the mouse movement function.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: pailhead on 27-10-2009, 17:10:36
My sensitivity was set to 0.1 hence the reason for slow movement. I still hate the planes :(


It seems that i can move the view diagonally but it tends to fail, like if i let it go. Ill try using the pov just for mouse movement and i will actually hold the ctrl to enable it.
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Ionizer on 27-10-2009, 23:10:47
Using the Joy2Key Hatswitch thing does have it's disadvantages.  For example, you have less fine control over it.  However, it is still useful, and I personally prefer it over switching hands from stick to mouse and back again.  But to each his own, I suppose.

It's good to know you actually got it working, though.  I'm sorry you don't like it.  You can play around with other configs to see if you can find some way to make it better for you, but if your fine how you are, that's fine.

(Quick suggestion, perhaps mapping your "Activate Mouselook" button to your joystick or even a button on your mouse and using the mouse to have better control over the Mouselook than the hat switch?  You might have to switch hands from throttle control to the mouse, but it might for you.)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Captmohamed on 01-11-2009, 12:11:32
So....

You think this is good enough? haha



Imagine flying with that :o

http://www.lekseecon.nl/images/FlightSimulator/Boeing-767-flightsimulator.JPG


(Sorry old link was a 404)
looks like a home made Flight Simulator  :)
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: :| Hi on 01-11-2009, 15:11:14
Indeed it is, most people that make these end up spending like $2000-6000
on these at the least
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: Cory the Otter on 04-11-2009, 01:11:19

So....

You think this is good enough? haha



Imagine flying with that :o

http://www.lekseecon.nl/images/FlightSimulator/Boeing-767-flightsimulator.JPG


(Sorry old link was a 404)
looks like a home made Flight Simulator  :)


BF2 ENGINE NOT COMPATIBLE!

*boom*
Title: Re: Achtung, Spitfeuer: Pilots gather!
Post by: W4lt3r on 10-11-2009, 13:11:27
My trick in just about any plane, stay as high as possible. Depending on the craft determines whom I am going after, if it's a air superiority fighter, naturally i go for every single plane spot my team decides to give.

During the dive i aim about width of a mid finger ahead of the target and close it gradually as i get closer. Usually the rounds hit the thing dead on and it should be after the first pass or very heavily damaged.

That's the most common style I use and works quite well, since AA doesn't tend to fire at high-altitude targets but focuses at low altitude ones.

If it's a tank buster I'm flying and a tank spot appears on the map, I usually leave grid or two space between me and my target and might slow down the throttle a bit (about 20% at most) to give me some extra time to find that hiding tin can before showing up some Rockets / 40mm's through it's top armor.

Dive Bomber, just about the same but basically a 90 degree dive with dive horns on. Tiger / KT / Matilda / Valentine gets the 500 kg / 250kg while other tanks usually get the 4x 50's on them. Right after release i pull up and head towards friendly lines and hopefully away from enemy triple A.

But if one wants to really become a good pilot, testing out IL-2 1946 war flight simulator might be worth a while, since that teaches you the best possible class of leading your rounds to your target.