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Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: General_Henry on 07-04-2009, 12:04:02

Title: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 07-04-2009, 12:04:02
This is not intended to be professional tips, so don't yell at me if you still get blew up easily after reading this.


1. Introduction

The German panzers ... just call them tanks, most of them are much more versatile than the British tanks because they have better armaments and usually fairly good armour, enough to withstand some shots before becoming scrap metal.

Actually the German tanks are "designed for different roles", such as that the Panzer III are designed as battle tanks (all rounded), Panzer IV (short barrel) for infantry support, and panzer II for recon(ignore this) and support purpose.

knowing something basic about the panzers is important so that you don't looked so noob when people see you charging some heavy defended area directly with your Panzer II f, or trying to snipe the annoying Grant somewhere in fog distance with your Panzer IV F1.


2. Fundamental Concepts of Tank Fighting

generally there's 2 types of actions, Infantry support(Storming soft targets), and Tank battles.

-Infantry support is something easy to do but difficult to master, as a panzer commander you have machine guns and HE shells in your hand, it shouldn't be that difficult to fire your MG at enemy infantry and light vehicles. HE shells are a bit tricky, sometimes it's not easy to have your shells landed at the exact position of your enemies, so you have to make use of the blast. Hitting a obstacle somewhere near the target would blew your enemies into pieces easily.


- Tank Battles are the most difficult jobs , no matter you are a veteran commander or just a newb, you need to be very careful, and try to put some AP shells into your enemy before they do to you.

the panzers have some special rounds that are intended to be powerful anti-tank rounds, it's usually a big mistake for newbies not to have them loaded if you expect enemy armour to appear. Those rounds are usually enough to take out a few tanks before you have to use AP rounds, that's quite an achievement, right? :-*

the other things you need to know is that the strongest spots of your tanks are usually in your front side, also, your surface area exposed to enemies are lower when you face your front to enemies. The other way to reduce surface area is to hide behind something or inside some holes. Lower surface area means you are less likely to get hit, which is a good thing.

most panzers have the ability to pop some smoke and escape, remember to move after popping smoke though, or don't yell that someone cheats and shoot through smoke. ::)



3. The Panzers


a. Panzer II c/f
The appearance of this tank tells you how good it is  :-\. Don't expect you are gonna become a tank hero inside it, this tank is better to be more supportive, or sneaky. The quick firing cannon is a really good weapon to destroy enemy soft targets, such as taking out enemy AT gunners which annoys your panzers in Siege of Tobruk.
Beware of enemy AT rifles, those things finish you off rather quickly. Fortunately, you are capable of mowing them down with ease if you spot them, at least.
This Tank is capable of taking out Crusaders, Cruisers, Vickers, Stuarts with their AP rounds(even in the front, but i don't suggest you do try unless you have no choice), more quickly with PZG40 rounds, if you have the luck of sneaking to the back of a M3 Grant, insert a clip into his ass and send him to hell. If you appear in the front of a Grant , or anything that looks more powerful than that, i suggest you to run away.

b. Panzer IV D/F1
These guys have a short cannon, and it's expected that they are going to suck at long range. Fortunately , most tank combats in FH2 aren't long range sniping fest, so the HEAT shells that these tanks loaded could be very devastating to any enemy tanks. Don't have too much imaginations when trying to take out medium tanks with AP rounds , though.
The 75mm cannon on it could fire HE shells with crazy blast, enough to blew those annoying infantry into pieces easily, also, just laugh at those AT rifles trying to take you out, hose them down with your MG.
However don't expect this tank to be better armorued just because the number 4 is bigger than 3. You would certainly don't want to get stickied, or at range of enemy AT grenades, the 2 pounder guns are also a threat to this tank.
Another thing to remind is that beware of strafing runs.

c. Panzer III J (Early/Late)
These tanks are those i loved most, and certainly the no. 1 choice for newbies, they are better armoured than most panzers in the game, and their armaments are usually sufficient to do any job at any distance.
The Late version 's cannon is better at taking out enemy tanks, even with AP rounds, but with PZG40 rounds both early and late versions are great if you know how to shoot.
2 pounders are usually not a threat to you unless they side shot you. You can just ignore AT rifles in most cases, and you also have a good chance of surviving a Grant's front shot, however, when Shermans appeared in the battlefield this tank is no longer that dominating.
A last remind is to shoot smart at things like Valentine and Matildas, or else you would just be wasting shells.

d. Panzer IV F2
One of the most powerful tanks for a tank battle, perfect for shooting at any distance if you are skilled. The almost flat trajectory of the 75mm rounds coming out of your tank just bring death to your enemies very quicky. Personally i don't recommend newbies to take this tank as the armour isn't that impressive and your team would yell at your when you run yourself into a position full of anti tank grenades.
Also beware of strafing runs.

e. Panzer VI Tiger E
I have no tips for this tank. Good luck getting into it.


Normandy Panzers

this part covers the German armour in Normandy

f. Panzer IVH
The workhorse of German armoured units. In General this tank outperforms most allied tanks. Armed with impressive 75mm L48 cannon which is capable of taking out any Allied tanks with ease. The frontal armour is also enough to protect the tank from harm of 75mm rounds(Sherman/Cromwell/Churchill 75mm). In addition, the tank got skirts in the side which makes enemy AT soldiers harder to flank it. This means this tank is very all rounded in performing all sort of tasks.
The only tank that a panzer IVH would have difficulty dealing with is the Churchill with 6 pounder, which in my opinion outperforms the IVH.
Last of my advices is , always load the tank with PZG40 rounds, there's not a need to save them because AP rounds are powerful enough and infantries have problems dealing with skirts(so there are plenty of time loading HE rounds).

g. Panzer V Panther Ausf A
This is the very best tank in the battlefield. It have a deadly combination speed, armour and firepower. The frontal armour is sufficient to protect the tank from being one-shot by most tanks. The tank cannon blews up anything in sight.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Fuchs on 07-04-2009, 16:04:19
Panzer II is a sneaky dwarf, I love it on Siege of Tobruk. Mowing rowes of Aussies with it. Don't try to get in enemy sight with it though, use hills are your speed to flank and surprise. Also the HE rounds have quite a blast so try them out on the trenches etc., on flag zones you'll surely get a red flash pretty fast  :P
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Eat Uranium on 07-04-2009, 16:04:58
Yeh, the Pz2 (along with the M13/40 and L6/40) is great for taking out AT guns.  The shots from those tanks fly extremly flat.  And putting 10 20mm Pzg40 rounds into the door on a camping grant is one of the most satisfying ways to kill it.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: konti on 07-04-2009, 18:04:29
Very good!  :)
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Kildar on 08-04-2009, 07:04:06
"e. Panzer VI Tiger E
I have no tips for this tank. Good luck getting into it."

Reasons To Use This Tank:
 Extremely well armored all around sans Engine Deck and Back and I think top of turret
 One shots every tank save for another tiger
 Uber l337 Skills

Reasons not to:
Slow top speed
Slow Acceleration
Slow Turret turning
You will be Tk'ed for it in a Pub most of the time
If the opponent has a competent bomber you will be bombed... period.
You have a huge silhouette and could be shot at from miles away.
If this tank spawns you are loosing the battle [Mareth Line]
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 08-04-2009, 10:04:23
thx for reading, actually i missed out one thing, is that you can use tanks to defend flags when your enemy don't have much armour threat, but that's more advanced thing. (e.g. use a tank to "camp" a captured flag in Siege of Tobruk, always works.), a panzer II could be perfect for this.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Kildar on 08-04-2009, 16:04:14
Depends on the map, a P2 camping a flag is ATR bait. If you do it with something bigger your sticky grenade/mine bait in a closed in maps.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: konti on 08-04-2009, 20:04:18
Yep, Siege of Tobruk is perfect for the PzKpfw II  ;D
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 09-04-2009, 01:04:26
 As a general tip for the Panzer optics,

 The centre of the large Triangle should reflect a perfect hit at optimal gun range. The smaller triangles (half sized) are representative of engaging a target at twice the optimal distance. (trial and error will prove this to all doubters)

 The only gun for which the German optics are borked is the short barrel Panzer4 (it doesn't seem to be zeroed), otherwise this simple trick works like a charm.

 Tips for the Tiger...

 1) Sweep for mines (both tk and enemy)
 
 2) Don't rotate the turret, instead use the directional keys to move the whole tank and rely on your armour to protect  you for some time.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 09-04-2009, 11:04:12
Oh, and if you´re in the Tiger, always keep moving. Once you´re a sitting duck you´re an easy target for bombers and artillery. Also some escort service from smaller tanks like Panzer3s or Panzer4s is alwaysgood because they can keep away other things that annoy you like fast-moving tanks etc. In a WaW battle I saw Paddy Mayne destroying a lone Tiger with that scout car with the 2-pounder (Daimler I think). Oh, and also, ALWAYS turn your front to the enemy. There are certain spots where Shermans and Crusaders can hurt you and you don´t want to present these spots to the enemy ;)
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 09-04-2009, 13:04:49
As a general tip for the Panzer optics,

 The centre of the large Triangle should reflect a perfect hit at optimal gun range. The smaller triangles (half sized) are representative of engaging a target at twice the optimal distance. (trial and error will prove this to all doubters)

 The only gun for which the German optics are borked is the short barrel Panzer4 (it doesn't seem to be zeroed), otherwise this simple trick works like a charm.

 Tips for the Tiger...

 1) Sweep for mines (both tk and enemy)
 
 2) Don't rotate the turret, instead use the directional keys to move the whole tank and rely on your armour to protect  you for some time.

i once see you playing the Tiger very tactfully, me as the hull gunner. you pop smoke often .

Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Fuchs on 10-04-2009, 14:04:35
As a general tip for the Panzer optics,

 The centre of the large Triangle should reflect a perfect hit at optimal gun range. The smaller triangles (half sized) are representative of engaging a target at twice the optimal distance. (trial and error will prove this to all doubters)

 The only gun for which the German optics are borked is the short barrel Panzer4 (it doesn't seem to be zeroed), otherwise this simple trick works like a charm.

 Tips for the Tiger...

 1) Sweep for mines (both tk and enemy)
 
2) Don't rotate the turret, instead use the directional keys to move the whole tank and rely on your armour to protect  you for some time.
Yes, this is something I also advice. Use it as a StuG  :P Plus now your front armour is always facing the oppononent you want to take out.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Torenico on 11-04-2009, 00:04:10
Ask and shoot.

For the tiger.. ask if theres someone using the Flak88, ask if someone can clear the way of Mines.. ask if the Bomber is roaming.. ask if someone can protect you, ask if theres inf near you.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Eat Uranium on 11-04-2009, 00:04:02
My one tip with tanks is this:
Stay well clear of the road/most common route if at all possible.  It makes you less likely to be spotted and bombed.  This is especially important with the Tiger.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Roden on 11-04-2009, 20:04:08
Spotting can good even for us tankers (not only airforces )

Take out your binocs and mark out ANY enemy Asset (Tank, Transports)

it may often give us tanker and upper-edge  because we can then
plan our attacks against them better when we know where they are

Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Fuchs on 12-04-2009, 01:04:15
Tanks. Without us cannon fodder they are nothing.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Kev4000 on 14-04-2009, 03:04:11
Reminds me of a round I had in the tiger in Normandy. Was amazing, destroyed 8 allied tanks roaming around with it. Was eventually taken out by a cromwell to the back. Its so fun seeing a sherman in the hedgerows, facing your front to it, knowing it has nowhere to escape and can't damage you. Just tease it a bit by firing the machine gun, wait 20 seconds or something, and fire.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: [ret]azreal on 14-04-2009, 03:04:39
That's not nice Kev :P The Shermans, they try hard too.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 14-04-2009, 04:04:32
Reminds me of a round I had in the tiger in Normandy. Was amazing, destroyed 8 allied tanks roaming around with it. Was eventually taken out by a cromwell to the back. Its so fun seeing a sherman in the hedgerows, facing your front to it, knowing it has nowhere to escape and can't damage you. Just tease it a bit by firing the machine gun, wait 20 seconds or something, and fire.


 All the more reason to follow proper doctrine and avoid unneccesary fire, your tracer rounds will expose your location and bring down the hell upon you that is my PIAT.

 R.I.P. Wittmann's tiger
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Torenico on 15-04-2009, 04:04:04
Kev.. i just.. think i... gotta.. play... Normady..

As long as the Panther takes every tank whit 1 Shot.. im happy.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: VonMudra on 15-04-2009, 04:04:55
Well tore, its gun is better then the tiger's.  And the tiger takes all tanks with one shot.  So yeah, do the math;)
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Tiemann on 15-04-2009, 04:04:52
Well tore, its gun is better then the tiger's.  And the tiger takes all tanks with one shot.  So yeah, do the math;)

hmm i had no idea, i knew it was really good but its only a 75mm. Maybe thats why they always kick my ass in mow.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Fuchs on 15-04-2009, 09:04:34
Size doesn't always matter. It's just like the 17 pounder. Thats 76/77mm (I always forget, sorry) but compare it to the 75mm Sherman gun. It's the barrel and the gun mechanics. The Panthers gun is top notch quality.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 15-04-2009, 09:04:56
Well tore, its gun is better then the tiger's.  And the tiger takes all tanks with one shot.  So yeah, do the math;)

hmm i had no idea, i knew it was really good but its only a 75mm. Maybe thats why they always kick my ass in mow.

i think the armour piercing ability is related to momentum of the shell and the pressure when the shell stuck the plates...

pressure is proportional to Force/Area, while Force is proportional to momentum which is proportional to both mass and velocity...

the reasoning behind is because pressure cause stress in materials and make them deform.

so if the shell could be hitting enemies at very high velocity i think it could outweights the shells' inferior mass.

the actual case if far more complicated, but this is my prediction with a simple "model" using my knowledge.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 15-04-2009, 11:04:19
Yeah, it´s the high velocity that makes the Panthers gun such a usefull tank killer. Remember, it "only" had 75mm in diameter, just like the Panzer4s gun, but it was much longer (L/48 of the Panzer 4 versus L/70 on the Panther). Velocity is a very important factor in the penetration of armour. A low velocity gun of the same calibre will always be worse at penetrating armour than a longer one. Again, the Panzer4 is a good example. The L/24 gun wasn´t able to penetrate more ammo than the longer gun. And then of course density of the projectile was important, too. Speed and density. Today´s tanks fire high-density projectiles either made from depleted Uranium or Tungsten at very high velocities (the M1 Abrams for example fires it´s shell at 1 mile per second!) to penetrate even the most modern tanks.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Schneider on 15-04-2009, 12:04:23
so if the shell could be hitting enemies at very high velocity i think it could outweights the shells' inferior mass.

Yup, simple but true, just the way it is, E = 1/2 mv².
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Mspfc Doc DuFresne on 16-04-2009, 01:04:40
Which means, of course, that doubling m doubles K.E., while doubling V quadruples K.E. Because action is equal and opposite to reaction, no matter how you produce more K.E., the recoil is still proportional to the K.E. The K.E. released into the target depends on how much is left when the projectile flies out the opposite end, so because this doesn't happen in FH2 the K.E. released into the target is %100 what it started with, minus that lost to air resistance. Of course, if the shot flies out the opposite end of a tank, it released more than enough K.E. to do its job.

/nerd
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Schneider on 16-04-2009, 01:04:38
/nerd

No, no. That doubling of velocity equals 4x of the energy was exactly what I meant to say with that formula, regarding that a lower calibre can do more damage. So you have done well, my boy.  :)
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 16-04-2009, 02:04:23
Which means, of course, that doubling m doubles K.E., while doubling V quadruples K.E. Because action is equal and opposite to reaction, no matter how you produce more K.E., the recoil is still proportional to the K.E. The K.E. released into the target depends on how much is left when the projectile flies out the opposite end, so because this doesn't happen in FH2 the K.E. released into the target is %100 what it started with, minus that lost to air resistance. Of course, if the shot flies out the opposite end of a tank, it released more than enough K.E. to do its job.

/nerd


unfortunately, resistance increase with velocity and the way to reduce KE loss is to fire a heavier shell (which stores more KE due to higher mass, from E=1/2mv^2), so i think the actual case is much much more complicated. the 37mm guns fire shells with very high velocity yet they ... sucks.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Mspfc Doc DuFresne on 16-04-2009, 05:04:15
Which means, of course, that doubling m doubles K.E., while doubling V quadruples K.E. Because action is equal and opposite to reaction, no matter how you produce more K.E., the recoil is still proportional to the K.E. The K.E. released into the target depends on how much is left when the projectile flies out the opposite end, so because this doesn't happen in FH2 the K.E. released into the target is %100 what it started with, minus that lost to air resistance. Of course, if the shot flies out the opposite end of a tank, it released more than enough K.E. to do its job.

/nerd


unfortunately, resistance increase with velocity and the way to reduce KE loss is to fire a heavier shell (which stores more KE due to higher mass, from E=1/2mv^2), so i think the actual case is much much more complicated. the 37mm guns fire shells with very high velocity yet they ... sucks.

Partly because the total mas of the 37mm shell was so low, especially its length. Its diameter isn't nearly as important as its length, when you are going for penetration and aerodynamics. The most important thing for aerodynamics is cross sectional area. This is the concept behind APDS; the sabot allows it to fill a gun barrel, but does not impede the dense flechette in flight.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Slayer on 16-04-2009, 20:04:59
Eeehm, this thread is called "Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]"
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 17-04-2009, 10:04:12
Eeehm, this thread is called "Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]"
lol we go into physics.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: djinn on 29-09-2009, 05:09:58
Any new tank tips... for Normandy exclusive tanks? I'm making a compilation for an ultimate guide (To add to my FH2 DVD)... please answer in the starting format

thanks
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Cory the Otter on 19-11-2009, 02:11:20
"Think of a tank as a sniper rifle, only instead of a rifle, you are using a cannon, and instead of breath, your enemy will hear the rumble of your engine."

-Me

"I like hiding in the willow trees."
-also me
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Jürgen on 19-11-2009, 21:11:09
"Think of a tank as a sniper rifle, only instead of a rifle, you are using a cannon, and instead of breath, your enemy will hear the rumble of your engine."

-Me

"I like hiding in the willow trees."
-also me

Don´t quote yourself!
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: VonMudra on 19-11-2009, 22:11:22
"Think of a tank as a sniper rifle, only instead of a rifle, you are using a cannon, and instead of breath, your enemy will hear the rumble of your engine."

-Me

"I like hiding in the willow trees."
-also me

Don´t quote yourself!

Agreed, stop quoting yourself Warrior.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Cory the Otter on 19-11-2009, 22:11:18
"Think of a tank as a sniper rifle, only instead of a rifle, you are using a cannon, and instead of breath, your enemy will hear the rumble of your engine."

-Me

"I like hiding in the willow trees."
-also me

stop quoting me quoting me
Don´t quote yourself!

Agreed, stop quoting yourself Warrior.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Paasky on 19-11-2009, 23:11:27
"Think of a tank as a sniper rifle, only instead of a rifle, you are using a cannon, and instead of breath, your enemy will hear the rumble of your engine."

-Me

"I like hiding in the willow trees."
-also me

stop quoting me quoting me
Don´t quote yourself!

Agreed, stop quoting yourself Warrior.
Stop quoting people quoting you quoting yourself and telling you to stop quoting yourself.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Jürgen on 19-11-2009, 23:11:31
Back on topic...
You should make a thread about "sniping" with tanks...some tips and so we should take in care when having long-range fights!
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Cory the Otter on 20-11-2009, 01:11:35
Back on topic...
You should make a thread about "sniping" with tanks...some tips and so we should take in care when having long-range fights!


why? Why would i give away my secret? you shall not learn the way in which i take out 3 tigers/1 death in a Cromwell? no, i am keeping my secret. those are the only hints.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: General_Henry on 20-11-2009, 02:11:32
Back on topic...
You should make a thread about "sniping" with tanks...some tips and so we should take in care when having long-range fights!

tank sniping is a noble ability.

Practice using the 6 pounder as a rifle (use AP against infantry), that way you learn much
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 22-03-2010, 14:03:17
Newb question (I'm an ol' BF1942 FH player on the TDP server):

Does anyone have a list of advised key bindings for proper tank use?

I've checked the controls for vehicles, but I can't figure out how to optimize it.
Hell, I can't even change view in a tank from outside the tank, to the aimsight along the barrel.
I thought it was F9/F10, but that didn't work.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Eat Uranium on 22-03-2010, 14:03:24
Newb question (I'm an ol' BF1942 FH player on the TDP server):

Does anyone have a list of advised key bindings for proper tank use?

I've checked the controls for vehicles, but I can't figure out how to optimize it.
Hell, I can't even change view in a tank from outside the tank, to the aimsight along the barrel.
I thought it was F9/F10, but that didn't work.
Tank gunsights are brought up by the 'x' key.  Freelook is achieved via holding down the 'left ctrl'.  These are the only buttons you need for tanks (other than wasd and mouse 1 & 2).
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 22-03-2010, 15:03:14
Tx Eat Uranium

Pretty sure I tried the x key though.. so that's a little worrying :)
I'll try again 2night, in a singleplay.

I did tinker with vehicle key bindings, but only the wsad (changed to arrowkeys) and the boost and smoke buttons. Btw boost doesn't seem to work, so no turbo/nitro option on my tank...
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Die Happy on 22-03-2010, 16:03:11
Tx Eat Uranium

Pretty sure I tried the x key though.. so that's a little worrying :)
I'll try again 2night, in a singleplay.

I did tinker with vehicle key bindings, but only the wsad (changed to arrowkeys) and the boost and smoke buttons. Btw boost doenst seem to work, so no turbo/nitro option on my tank...

smoke button brings up sights on the tanks ;)

to actually deploy smoke you need to select the "weapon" smoke
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 22-03-2010, 16:03:40
@die happy

Tx, so I actually screwed myself by reassigning the x (smoke) key.. huh.. go figure

In my defense, that button isn't very clearly named in the controls menu. It's not just smoke, but a variety of tank weaponry then?
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Die Happy on 22-03-2010, 16:03:03
they key binding "pop smoke" in the tank settings of BF2 will bring up the tank sights in FH2.

many tanks have some capability to deploy smoke either by dispenser , launcher or projectile  those a different weapon selected via mousewheel and fired with mouse 1.


since you seem to be new to the game
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/main.php?module=media&area=videos&lang=english (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/main.php?module=media&area=videos&lang=english)
scrool down until you reach the 4 black and white training videos. 
they might be a bit outdated by now but are still good in sowing new guys the ropes.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 22-03-2010, 17:03:01
Tx again, will check those out. (and check youtube too)

And I'm not exactly new to FH, have a lot of exp playing BF1942 FH. But that exp isn't very useful, I must say. The learning curve for FH2 is quite steep and unforgiving to the uninitiated.

Biggest drawback in comparison to BF1942 FH, is that the enemy seems to spot me first every time, even when I hide in the vegetation. Sure the graphics are better, but everything seems to blend together for me at a certain distance like an impressionist painting (at highest settings, but aa only at 2 times and res at 1920x1080 on a 23” FP). Now I’ve read that lowering your settings, makes that disadvantage go away, but then I might as well play BF1942 FH (and Vista 64 bits don’t take kindly to BF1942.. so that’s no option anymore).

N.B. The enemy seems to also be able to quickly drop to the ground and shoot me in a matter of half a second at a reasonable distance, while I’m used to a waiting period to take into account before your gun sight becomes optimal after you’ve changed position or moved.

Leading me to call them f*g haxxxors, but that’s what the internet/online gaming was invented for… oh and porn ofcourse.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: VonMudra on 22-03-2010, 20:03:49
So you know, except with MGs, all weapons shoot where they are pointed the moment you bring up the sights.  So there is no wait period.  For MGs, you gotta wait a sec for the two yellow lines at the bottom of the screen to close, then its same as the other weapons, it hits where its aiming.  There is no random spread.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 22-03-2010, 22:03:51
Good to know, tx.

I am however wondering how I can change camera view while in a tank, so I can improve my view. The keys bound for this are F9, 10, 11 and 12, but they don't seem to work (and I've seen youtube vids using the outside view). Or has this been disabled during play, for realism? So I can only scan around with Left Ctrl? Is there anyway to change that Left Ctrl function to another key? It's not mentioned in the controls menu.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Eat Uranium on 22-03-2010, 22:03:27
There are no floating camera veiws for fighting vehicles (except plane rear veiws).  Try looking it the vehicle controls page for the entry with left ctrl and changing that.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 23-03-2010, 11:03:30
I checked: Left Ctrl is not assigned in the vehicle control tab, but in the common controls tab.
It is standard assigned to "crouch" and changing it to another key, does not mean it works in a tank.

The newly assigned button works for crouching, but free view in your tank still only works with Left Ctrl (which isn't mentioned anywhere in the control tabs once I've reassigned te crouch function).

This both sucks and blows, coz I am not used to using wsad keys to operate anything.. I use the arrow keys.

On a positive note: played a game on the hslan server last night and got my first tank kills, thanks to some of the advise here. Don’t remember which map, but there was a reported firefly covering a flag and our infantry was screaming bloody murder for us to get rid of them.
I first went up in a Panther through the middle of the map and got owned, just like all the other tanks. Then I went creeping up the right side of the map in a Stug and got within viewing distance of the flag. Looked around for a bit and then it struck me… the contours of a Sherman were visible in the greyish fog of war! Since it was my first time on the map I hesitated shooting... it could just as well be a burned out husk of a Sherman that was simply part of the map. Then it moved and in a reflex I shot… my gun sight lit up red and I saw the kill message in the screen, booya, my first good deed in a tank! Instead of a thank you comment, our infantry coldly asked me “now kill the other one”. There were two fireflies there?!? Had I known that, I would have never moved up on the right side by myself.. but I was there so, no guts no glory. Couldn’t see the bugger, so I asked the infantry to give me a position on it. The reply “right where you killed the first one!”… looking at the spot again, I couldn’t make anything out in the fog.. until.. was I looking at the long moving barrel of a firefly?? It had to be.. but if that’s the barrel, then the body of the tank must be slightly to the right.. I took aim and fired.. boom! My second shot and second kill of the battle. The infantry went up and took the flag, and I took a moment to light a cigarette and enjoy the moment.  :)

Now that was as good as it got on the map, coz from then on I continued to get owned by 6 pounders and piats, but it was an awesome experience non the less.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Ionizer on 23-03-2010, 14:03:39
Since tanks don't have freelook in vBF2, there is no control for it in the options tabs.  To change the key that activates Tank and AT Guns Freelook (default LeftCtrl), follow these instructions that I wrote before:

This setting is actually set in the Controls.con file and doesn't show up in the Options menu because nothing other than aircraft can use Freelook in Vanilla BF2.  The FH2 Devs added Freelook to other vehicles, so upon installing FH2, it changes a setting (probably adding a line of code) into the Controls.con file that corresponds to Tank and AT Gun Freelook.

To change it:  Go to Documents\Battlefield 2\Profiles.  Find the Number of the Profile you want to change (if its the only profile you've made, it should be 0001).  Open the Controls.con file (and/or the Controls.fh2.con file) in Notepad and find the line that says
Code: [Select]
ControlMap.create LandPlayerInputControlMap
and then find the line a few lines down that says
Code: [Select]
ControlMap.addKeyToTriggerMapping c_PIMouseLook IDFKeyboard IDKey_LeftCtrl 0 0
Then change "LeftCtrl" there to some other key (make sure that the new key is not in use, of course).  BTW, Freelook in Tanks and AT Guns is very useful, so make sure the key is still within reach.  Then save the document.  Then you should be able to use the In-Game Options menu to set the rest of your controls.

Make sure to be very careful when changing stuff in that file, or else it might screw up your whole control scheme (especially make sure whatever key you assign to that function is not already in use).

For the record, I also use the Arrow Keys for my controls, and I put my Tank Freelook key as RightCtrl.  Of course, you can put your's wherever you want, if you find somewhere that's more comfortable for you.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 23-03-2010, 15:03:38
Excellent, tx Ionizer.

Now to find a button.. coz RightCtrl is already my infantry prone button.
Is there a way I can assign a mouse button? That's what I used in FH1 to change inside/outside view quickly (2 mouse buttons on the side of my Logitech G5 mouse).

Another question about panzers: I've been reading people mentioning they turn off the engine in their tank to be more stealthy in an ambush. Is that just some poetic license they are taking in telling their war stories, or is there actually a button?
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Die Happy on 23-03-2010, 16:03:14
to "turn off"  the tank you would need to switch from the driver position to any other position
.
however then you cant fire the maingun, of course.

and there is a delay when you switch back before you can fire the maingun so i find this "tactic" not very usefull since you loose you "suprise attack" by the delay the gun needs to get ready again.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Ionizer on 23-03-2010, 19:03:01
RightCtrl is my Inf Prone button too.  Just make sure it doesn't conflict with any "Common" or "Land" controls.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 23-03-2010, 20:03:10
Reset to default stteings in keyboard options, then everything works fine. then LEARN TO USE THEM. I did it, works fine.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ajappat on 23-03-2010, 22:03:52
Reset to default stteings in keyboard options, then everything works fine. then LEARN TO USE THEM. I did it, works fine.
This. Some games sure need adjustment on controls but on this case everything is fine. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Ionizer on 23-03-2010, 22:03:06
Reset to default stteings in keyboard options, then everything works fine. then LEARN TO USE THEM. I did it, works fine.
This. Some games sure need adjustment on controls but on this case everything is fine. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken.

I hate WASD controls.  Perhaps because I was never formally trained in typing, and so I don't tend to keep my hands on the "Home Row" or whatever, but I despise having my hands over so many keys when I normally only need 6 or so.  I like the arrow keys because the main keys I need (the arrows) are distinctly separate from all other keys, while all other functions I need are still in reach by means of the left side of the Num Pad, the far right of the main keys and the Insert/Home/Delete/End/PageUp/PageDown keys.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: ourobouros on 24-03-2010, 09:03:49
RightCtrl is my Inf Prone button too.  Just make sure it doesn't conflict with any "Common" or "Land" controls.

So u have changed the line ControlMap.addKeyToTriggerMapping c_PIMouseLook IDFKeyboard IDKey_LeftCtrl 0 0
to ControlMap.addKeyToTriggerMapping c_PIMouseLook IDFKeyboard IDKey_RightCtrl 0 0

But doesn't that conflict with your common control setting: RightCtrl = prone?
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Ionizer on 24-03-2010, 19:03:00
Actually, I added a line right under it:
Code: [Select]
ControlMap.addKeyToTriggerMapping c_PIMouseLook IDFKeyboard IDKey_RightCtrl 0 1Basically making RightCtrl the "Secondary Control" for it.  The reason for that is that I don't feel like reconfiguring my Joy2Key for flying (which specifies LeftCtrl).  But that's just laziness on my part.

Anyway, it doesn't conflict with anything, since soldier movements/controls (prone) are separate from vehicle movements/controls (freelook).

If you don't feel comfortable, you can always back up the controls.con file before changing it and then revert back if you broke something.
Title: Re: Introduction to Panzers [fundamental level]
Post by: Slayer on 24-03-2010, 19:03:46
Heh, nice story about the Fireflies, ourobouros. It's always good if people have first experiences with FH2 like this.