Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Community Polls => Topic started by: flyboy_fx on 07-10-2009, 18:10:23

Title: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 07-10-2009, 18:10:23
Well personally like I said it is not so good any more.

Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 07-10-2009, 18:10:10
In 1.5 vanilla flying is much easier in my opinion, but not sure if you meant 2.15.

Anyway flying physics suck now, were much better in 2.15. Old physics would still work, pilot just needs to be good.

Obviously i am soon getting flamed by someone who never flies a plane and cant stand any criticism about his favorite mod.  
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: NoCoolOnesLeft on 07-10-2009, 19:10:39
I think the change in flight physics only applies to the Normandy planes, because of the small size of the current maps in comparison to Africa. By the time you've come about full turn, you'd be way into the red.

Haven't noticed any change in the African Front planes since 2.15.

If you want my honest opinion, I prefer the Africa/2.15 physics completely.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Thorondor123 on 07-10-2009, 19:10:12

Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 07-10-2009, 19:10:54
Me 2 and I meant 2.15 Fh2 ;)

But still then only good pilots would fly in normandy.

BTW I can not do my signature move any more.....the Stall! I always got away.!!!
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Ts4EVER on 07-10-2009, 19:10:26

Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?

Because in that case only the elite pilots camp the planes.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 07-10-2009, 19:10:06

Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?

Well good point but then it keeps so much Tk down for planes.  :P :-\ ;)
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Thorondor123 on 07-10-2009, 19:10:12

Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?

Because in that case only the elite pilots camp the planes.
So let's make tank impossible to use but for the very best. Should tone down the Tiger-camping.


Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?

Well good point but then it keeps so much Tk down for planes.  :P :-\ ;)
I have no idea what you are saying.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: [ret]azreal on 07-10-2009, 19:10:47
I think the change in flight physics only applies to the Normandy planes, because of the small size of the current maps in comparison to Africa. By the time you've come about full turn, you'd be way into the red.

This statement is void. There is one Normandy map with planes on it. Its called Operation Totalize. It is a 2km by 2km map. Mareth Line for example, is also a 2km by 2km map. Therefore, the Normandy air map is exactly the same size as any Afrika map with planes.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: THeTA0123 on 07-10-2009, 19:10:44
Imo the only thing that was needed, was gun harmonization....


But then again, it doesnt really matter to once again discuss this.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 07-10-2009, 19:10:17
Yea that is needed.

That and maybe do not totally reverse the planes but just a little? like make them stallable again
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: verg_6 on 07-10-2009, 20:10:39

So let's make tank impossible to use but for the very best. Should tone down the Tiger-camping.

I actually wouldn't mind that after the amount of rampant camping I've been seeing.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: NoCoolOnesLeft on 07-10-2009, 20:10:00
I think the change in flight physics only applies to the Normandy planes, because of the small size of the current maps in comparison to Africa. By the time you've come about full turn, you'd be way into the red.

This statement is void. There is one Normandy map with planes on it. Its called Operation Totalize. It is a 2km by 2km map. Mareth Line for example, is also a 2km by 2km map. Therefore, the Normandy air map is exactly the same size as any Afrika map with planes.

Okay. So why do the planes feel so different?
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Tedacious on 07-10-2009, 20:10:48

Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?
Couldn't agree more with Thorondor on this issue.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: NTH on 07-10-2009, 20:10:11
I think the change in flight physics only applies to the Normandy planes, because of the small size of the current maps in comparison to Africa. By the time you've come about full turn, you'd be way into the red.

This statement is void. There is one Normandy map with planes on it. Its called Operation Totalize. It is a 2km by 2km map. Mareth Line for example, is also a 2km by 2km map. Therefore, the Normandy air map is exactly the same size as any Afrika map with planes.

Okay. So why do the planes feel so different?

I concur with NCOL. The planes in FH2.2 on the Africa maps feel different and more like 2.15 then on Totalize. Only thing I perceived on the Africa maps is that the fighter planes feels a bit slower, but like I said, that could be perception.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: [ret]azreal on 07-10-2009, 20:10:13
They are different because because they are different planes, and they fly differently. How can you compare the Typhoon to Afrika planes? The Typhoon wasn't in Afrika and the Hurricane Mk. IIB isn't in Normandy.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Zoologic on 07-10-2009, 21:10:12
Because you get all the trees and hedgerows, not to mention the FH 2.2 grasses. All you need to render in a good PC. Lagging cause a lot of crashes. Anyway, this argument is also void, since you really have to spend your money on a good machine before attempting to play FH2. Other than that, i dunno, never played Totalize.

2.2 is as it is, 2.15 is okay, FH1 is the best. Which one i don't like the most? FH2.2


Back in 1.5 only few where able to fly planes good but now EVERY one dose :o ??? ??? .......
This is an argument I don't understand at all. In FH and FH2 everyone is able to fight with all the weapons and vehicles in air, sea and land. Why do you think that planes should be restricted to a few elitists elite pilots?

I partially agree with you. In another thread, someone mentioned that he is pissed off when get beaten in an aerial dogfight by n00bs and blame it on new FH2.2 physics, which is suspected to make it possible.

Elitist behavior are everywhere, not just in pilots. Most people in FH believe that top notch equipment (airplane, sniper, heavy tank) belong to the pros. Sometimes the pro themselves have wrong idea or very limited vision about how to use it. The reason being, "because at the hand of the pros it could do more damage to the enemy than it would at the hand of n00bs" thus people queue for it, whining about its usage, and worst, TK for it.

Let's say snipers. A lot of seemingly pro players taught newbies that it should be used like some ZOMFG super elite chameleon camouflaged snipers that you read in Carlos Hathcock article or "Enemy at the gates" movie scenario. Well, supporting the frontlines using your scoped rifles like modern day designated marksman is never wrong. Everybody don't enjoy the same play style. And some people don't want to be a sniper like Simo Häyhä, especially regarding their equipment.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 07-10-2009, 22:10:02
Because you get all the trees and hedgerows, not to mention the FH 2.2 grasses. All you need to render in a good PC. Lagging cause a lot of crashes. Anyway, this argument is also void, since you really have to spend your money on a good machine before attempting to play FH2. Other than that, i dunno, never played Totalize.

You need to resist Flippys lies. Nnghh.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Kelmola on 07-10-2009, 23:10:26
How can you compare the Typhoon to Afrika planes?
This. Obviously, a fighter that was faster than a FW190 (at low altitude) will fly "differently" when compared to poor old Hurricane that was on the slow side even when the war started (and before they decided to slap a pair of 40mm guns on it).
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: HappyFunBall on 07-10-2009, 23:10:50
Elitist behavior are everywhere, not just in pilots. Most people in FH believe that top notch equipment (airplane, sniper, heavy tank) belong to the pros. Sometimes the pro themselves have wrong idea or very limited vision about how to use it. The reason being, "because at the hand of the pros it could do more damage to the enemy than it would at the hand of n00bs" thus people queue for it, whining about its usage, and worst, TK for it.

Let's say snipers. A lot of seemingly pro players taught newbies that it should be used like some ZOMFG super elite chameleon camouflaged snipers that you read in Carlos Hathcock article or "Enemy at the gates" movie scenario. Well, supporting the frontlines using your scoped rifles like modern day designated marksman is never wrong. Everybody don't enjoy the same play style. And some people don't want to be a sniper like Simo Häyhä, especially regarding their equipment.

Bang on correct, put that speech in the loading screens!!!!

I would add one more thing. 'Noobs' have as much right to misuse equipment as 'pros' do. And watching some idiot teammate lose the Tiger in two minutes flat is part of the game as well. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Gl@mRock on 08-10-2009, 00:10:45
Could it be that the devs took a step back with the airplanes physics making them easier to fly to attract new players and once they are hooked to the mod  revert the tendency with subsequent release???

I dunno, I'm only speculating on something I have no idea about... but I'm sure the new physics are better for n00bs (like me) then having them saying: "OMG, planes sux, bring back nose cam" every two minutes.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Paasky on 08-10-2009, 01:10:06
Oh yeah, I want nosecam back too.  :P
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Zoologic on 08-10-2009, 06:10:15
Old FH2 physics + nose cams = n00b friendly. And no pro wouls likely to complain about it.

But the pilots' biggest enemy, ground soldiers, tankers, gunners will start to say "plane bias", "plane is for the killfest" etc etc like in the old FH. Even in the old FH, the devs want to try to implement fuel system only for the planes just to tone their superiority down.

Quote
I would add one more thing. 'Noobs' have as much right to misuse equipment as 'pros' do. And watching some idiot teammate lose the Tiger in two minutes flat is part of the game as well. Deal with it.

I think on average, pro players won't last much longer than n00bs. When they are unlucky, they'll be no different than n00bs. The difference is that they become really pissed off when being called 'n00b' (they are just unlucky, that's it). So it is really the ego that plays here. Same goes for vehicle campers.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Thorondor123 on 08-10-2009, 12:10:17
Oh yeah, I want nosecam back too.  :P
And I want an unicorn. But alas, neither is going to happen.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Meadow on 08-10-2009, 13:10:40
May sound obvious, but wasn't the MkIX capable of a good 150-200km/h more than the MkV? The Typhoon was also very fast indeed - its successor the Tempest was used to hunt V1s over Kent.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: NoCoolOnesLeft on 08-10-2009, 14:10:13
They are different because because they are different planes, and they fly differently. How can you compare the Typhoon to Afrika planes? The Typhoon wasn't in Afrika and the Hurricane Mk. IIB isn't in Normandy.

I am aware of what is and isn't in each respective theater.

The Africa planes all feel heavier, turn on a much wider radius, do not climb as well, do not recover from a dive as well, take longer to get off a runway, take longer to land, and are certainly not capable of pulling off the bizarre maneuvers you can with the Normandy planes. I seriously doubt this is all due to the representation of their respective models and the developments over the years.

They are radically different. For example, the Typhoon runways on Totalize are exceptionally short and you can pull into an almost 90 degree climb immediately. You'd not even dream of doing this in a Hurricane or 109. The basic principle is, all craft have to adhere to a set rule of game physics and the differences are too vast to dismiss. The Normandy planes don't even seem to apply to any kind of rules set by the physics in this mod.

Now, it was mentioned by either a tester or a developer some times ago that the physics or code values were altered slightly for Normandy planes so that they were more capable of being kept in control on their respective maps. It's not entirely relevant if the maps are the same size or not, it is the position and direction of runways and out of bounds areas that determines maneuvering space or flight paths on a map.

The creation of this thread and thoughts raised are pretty much testament to fact that something is up, and it's not just down to the model of plane.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: TheLean on 08-10-2009, 14:10:35
They are different because because they are different planes, and they fly differently. How can you compare the Typhoon to Afrika planes? The Typhoon wasn't in Afrika and the Hurricane Mk. IIB isn't in Normandy.

I am aware of what is and isn't in each respective theater.

The Africa planes all feel heavier, turn on a much wider radius, do not climb as well, do not recover from a dive as well, take longer to get off a runway, take longer to land, and are certainly not capable of pulling off the bizarre maneuvers you can with the Normandy planes. I seriously doubt this is all due to the representation of their respective models and the developments over the years.

They are radically different. For example, the Typhoon runways on Totalize are exceptionally short and you can pull into an almost 90 degree climb immediately. You'd not even dream of doing this in a Hurricane or 109. The basic principle is, all craft have to adhere to a set rule of game physics and the differences are too vast to dismiss. The Normandy planes don't even seem to apply to any kind of rules set by the physics in this mod.

Now, it was mentioned by either a tester or a developer some times ago that the physics or code values were altered slightly for Normandy planes so that they were more capable of being kept in control on their respective maps. It's not entirely relevant if the maps are the same size or not, it is the position and direction of runways and out of bounds areas that determines maneuvering space or flight paths on a map.

The creation of this thread and thoughts raised are pretty much testament to fact that something is up, and it's not just down to the model of plane.

Well, if Africa planes have 2.15 physics and normandy planes the new physics tuned for hedgerows and massive AA, I dont see why everebody is complaining so much. Sure, Its different, but you will learn how to adapt to each map soon enough. I thought the argument was that normandy physics screw the fun of flying on africa maps because they are more open and empty, but if this is a FALSE statement, what are we arguing about?
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: von.small on 08-10-2009, 14:10:42
'Noobs' have as much right to misuse equipment as 'pros' do. And watching some idiot teammate lose the Tiger in two minutes flat is part of the game as well. Deal with it.

While I agree with your statement of fairs-fair, I've noticed there are more and more 'griefers' and some of these griefers adopt that as the style of play for all FH2 rounds they play.  It's not enough you have to wait a long time for a typhoon, wulf (or tiger) to spawn and there he is, the same player(s) again and again, round after round (a good example) AdamCurry being accused, and accusing people of TKing for planes.  I know what you are going to say, "tell the server admin" well many times they aren't about, it's not all run like HSLAN clockwork, and mentioning 'kick him' just starts a torrent of bollocks chat that pushes tactical chat off the screen in favour of "i'm going to rape your family" remarks.  It's utter shit.  The only thing to do 'as a real pro' is to pick up a rifle and run to the front line and do what best you can.

I'm not having a go at you funball, no sir, just venting some steam because I'm ****ed off with the dirty habits players are picking up, it used to be that I could land a 109 and give it to abdul or Tiny so they could have a go, and they would often recipricate the queueing eticate.  Not anymore, it's all selfish little shits who do wind up burining in a tree somewhere.

p.s. I prefered the plane physics of old, when the 109 was a mans toy and the spitfire was like flying a giant beast with a huge nose.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: verg_6 on 08-10-2009, 18:10:23


I'm not having a go at you funball, no sir, just venting some steam because I'm ****ed off with the dirty habits players are picking up, it used to be that I could land a 109 and give it to abdul or Tiny so they could have a go, and they would often recipricate the queueing eticate.  Not anymore, it's all selfish little shits who do wind up burining in a tree somewhere.


You can thank the flood of newbies for that. I'm all for a bigger FH playerbase, but it seems all the BF2 smacktards are finding their way here and bringing their playstyles with them (ie: 'Form a line for the Typhoon/King Tiger or we WILL TK you!').
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Cin3k33 on 08-10-2009, 18:10:27
Imo the only thing that was needed, was gun harmonization....

Do we have the same father?




I am going to install 2.15 and fly there.

Planes in 2.2 just abase me when I got killed by noob seen for the fist time. And there is nothing I can do with it.



Hidden message in 2.2:
Quote
Good pilot is a pilot in Focke Wulf 190.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: HappyFunBall on 08-10-2009, 18:10:54

While I agree with your statement of fairs-fair, I've noticed there are more and more 'griefers' and some of these griefers adopt that as the style of play for all FH2 rounds they play...  I know what you are going to say, "tell the server admin" well many times they aren't about...

I feel for ya. We've all been there. Playing with juvenile minds who can't accept getting things anything but their own way. All I can say is learning to live with idiots like that helps make you a better person. Small consolation, I know, but its all I can offer.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: djinn on 08-10-2009, 19:10:02
Well, the NA maps are alot more featureless so distances WILL feel a tad greater, hence flying may feel more laid back, and there seems to be as many bases in Normandy maps as there are in the most flag-potched desert maps, which, is quite a number, so that also adds a sense of urgency. In a few secs, you've flown over two bases.. but this is just my theory

Personally, I don't get why anyone gripes... The devs have already told us all that the engine does NOT supoprt propeller engines and will always lack some related physics, but its always a work in progress...

Even in Fh1, planes flew quite differently between version 0.6 and 0.7 - And sure, some changes might not be the best... and will need to be reverted or seen as a step back in the long trek the best flying possible

Personally, I feel ok with the way planes fly, but then again, I haven't flown enough in Fh2.2
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: phillip on 08-10-2009, 19:10:37
I am 100% for making planes very difficult to fly, enough so they do keep crashing into trees and windmills.  If it keeps them from strafing my flagzone, all the better.  ;)
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Strat_84 on 08-10-2009, 19:10:35
Personally, I don't get why anyone gripes... The devs have already told us all that the engine does NOT supoprt propeller engines and will always lack some related physics, but its always a work in progress...

This is a fair statement and I don't think anybody has something to tell against it. The problem is that the current update made the situation worse than it was before on a realism point of view  ;)

The Africa planes all feel heavier, turn on a much wider radius, do not climb as well, do not recover from a dive as well, take longer to get off a runway, take longer to land, and are certainly not capable of pulling off the bizarre maneuvers you can with the Normandy planes. I seriously doubt this is all due to the representation of their respective models and the developments over the years.

They are radically different. For example, the Typhoon runways on Totalize are exceptionally short and you can pull into an almost 90 degree climb immediately. You'd not even dream of doing this in a Hurricane or 109. The basic principle is, all craft have to adhere to a set rule of game physics and the differences are too vast to dismiss. The Normandy planes don't even seem to apply to any kind of rules set by the physics in this mod.

I agree with you, the Africa planes seem more right than the Normandy ones in 2.2. However all of them are now able to climb 90° once taken off and more manoeuvrable, from the Hurricane to the Stuka. The plane on which everything is the most noticeable is the Me109 to me.
I tested all the planes on the Gazala map to be sure of this.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 09-10-2009, 05:10:19
Man look at that poll!
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Torenico on 09-10-2009, 08:10:24
Hmm let me see.

Many people, who calls themselves "Born to Fly" are getting pwnd in 2.2 by New people?


Now you are trying to get the 1.5 Physics back because Flying is for everyone and not for a few?

You cant compare "Pro" pilots and Pro Tankers. Tankers is, basically, the one who knows more than the other, shoots first, etc. If you are a WW2 Maniac, then you understand that the 20mm Gun from the PzII will no nothing against M4A1 Sherman front armor. Noob tankers usually fires their puny 20mm Cannon on Shermans front armor, giving away his cover. And making the Sherman tanker laugh.

In flight, the one who turns better and has less Ping, Flying sucks in all Combined Arms games. Its not good in ANY game, exept for games like Lock On and IL2 Sturmovik. I always hated airplanes on FPS, they were for "Pro Only", unlike tanks. In BF42 u got pwnd in a couple of seconds because of "He has a Joistick" or a Pad whatever. while you have to use your Mouse.

It would be cool if we could have Weight in this game, like, a Stuka fully loaded, with 2 50KG bombs and 1 250KB bomb, plus the thousand of 7.62 Bullets, will fly more slower than a Stuka with empty ammo and no bombs. Agility will be altered also.

You think airplanes were "realistic" in 1.5? lol. they arent. They were the same as 2.2 but more "Heavier", you could stillpress Down Arrow for hours and making 0's so the enemy/AAs wont get you.

If i were Lobo, i would thank the guys who worked on airplanes and i will, simply, delete them.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 09-10-2009, 12:10:56
Reason is that now there is no difference between planes. Pro pilots still pwn. And pro pilots are comparable to pro tankers. Pro pilot knows that P-51 mustang has better climb radius than BF109.

Please don't even comment if you don't know there real difference between new and old physics or know anything about flying at all. We all know planes weren't realistic, most of us ain't stupid.

Planes sucks in combined arms games as much as tanks, tanks actually suck even more. The guy who has the best tank wins <-- See its matter of opinion.

Tanks are as unreal in this mod as planes are. It doesn't matter from which angle do you shoot, you can shoot pnzIII with 2 pounder from 10 degree angle, yeah so realistic. Maybe we should delete tanks as well, oh wait infantry is unreal as well, mg42 is 600 rpm shotgun, guns cant jam, barrels cant be changed, bipod cant be rested on windows and sway is fake. Damn we need to delete infantry as well. Don't worry we can still roam around maps with freecam.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Schneider on 09-10-2009, 15:10:18
The poll doesn't seem to indicate that there is a big necessity to roll the wheel back to 2.15.
You guys might be right that the planes are now less realistic as in 2.15 (I'm not a flyboy, except for the big-boom-stuka on Prokhorovka  ;)), whoever, they seem to be more playable with focus on the new normandy maps. The fact that non-elitist pilots can handle them somewhat better is not necessarily a contra-point at all.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Strat_84 on 09-10-2009, 16:10:07
The fact that non-elitist pilots can handle them somewhat better is not necessarily a contra-point at all.

Well, I wouldn't say this is the major drawback (if even it can be considered as a drawback). I would say the problem is that the limits in "what you can do with a plane" are stretched too far that way.
That means so called "noobs" fly easier but a "flyboy" also benefits from this, and is even more a pain for ground players.

I overcame my aversion to play most of a round with a FW190 on Totalize yesterday. I have to admit the overmanoeuvrability was more a challenge to me as it made more difficult to aim accurately a ground target with a joystick. But on the other hand this, combined with the vertical fast climbing allows to come back on a target 2 or 3 times when the old physics obliged you to make slow manoeuvers and carry out only one attack in the same duration.
Plus the fast climbing rate allows to reach the "clouds" area very fast and hide, to just slaughter again the poor spit or typhoon coming back.
Well, I told the word, it's more a slaughter than a real fight, not that interesting to me.

BTW I was struck by one fact, that may be an interesting improvement for the "keep planes in map" problem. Nothing to do with the plane behavior, but the way it reacts to speed decreases. Between the time you set the engine on 0 on your joystick and the time it actually starts loosing speed there are something like 5 or 10 seconds. If this delay could be lowered without drawbacks it would make landing much easier.  ;)
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: TheLean on 09-10-2009, 16:10:58
Reason is that now there is no difference between planes.

This quote makes me think you havent played 2.2 at all. Last time I checked the difference between the planes on totalize was huge, typhoon turns like a oil tanker compared to the FW. I think you are pissed because the new 1.5 hitboxes makes it possible to kill planes from every angle, not just the old way of right behind. Learn some new strategies instead of crying here all the time.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Zoologic on 09-10-2009, 16:10:06
Scoring an "ace" (at least 6 kills) with only 1 life in BF1942, mastering only the spits... its killer turning radius and its arsenal. I don't consider this a pro or an "elitist". Every player do what they have to do: kill other planes and prevent it from raping my team mates below. I have less to complain when seeing the earlier Spits (Mk. II) Merlin coughing when i dive them down, or going off when i inverted them (still using the carburetor) in games, even those which claimed to be realistic.

I understand the lack of characteristics between planes in new physics... all of them just fly like... oh i dunno, like spacecrafts? Even in FH2.2's North Africa SP i can feeeeel the difference. I can point out thousands more unrealistic things from FH2.2's airplane, but pointless it is. Finally i can get that rudder kick in effect on FH2.2 (pretty unrealistic in Flight Simulator series, and even Il-2 as compared to the real 6-axis Level-D ones), but a bit too much, the real thing would break apart if the rudder slams that plane yawing really hard.

The Gravity-less environment. I think it won't be much problem, since the effect can be added. In MS Flight Simulator, you can make any 3-D objects fly, given you configure them right. Let's say, put a Panzer 4G model, give it Boeing 747-400's characteristics, complete with Rolls-Royce RB211-524T thrust setting characteristics. It flies on the program just like the 747-400, the only strange thing is that when you switch outside views, it shows Pz4G flying! Otherwise, you might want a bit propeller feeling, just swap the flight dynamic envelope files with Piper J-3 Cub's one. Your Panzer will lift off at 30 knots even in dead winds condition.

I reaaaallly can excuse the utterly poooor physics, since there is a lack of aviation knowledge besides scattered historical accounts (which says Spits turn better, 109 climb better, 109 do zoom and boom, P-51 is the king of mid alt, P-39 aircobra pwns lower alt, Zero pwns all, etc, etc).
Boeing 757 outclimb them all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVUDMkBfds4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50BRFzVxDH8&feature=related
(well, yes the plane was empty, and it had 2 huge RR RB211-535, kinda Zero-ey)
Just to forgive the pooor physics.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 09-10-2009, 17:10:52
Reason is that now there is no difference between planes.

This quote makes me think you havent played 2.2 at all. Last time I checked the difference between the planes on totalize was huge, typhoon turns like a oil tanker compared to the FW. I think you are pissed because the new 1.5 hitboxes makes it possible to kill planes from every angle, not just the old way of right behind. Learn some new strategies instead of crying here all the time.
And makes me think you didn't play 2.15 at all, i am comparing it to 2.15 physics. "Common sense" ever heard?

In 2.15 the difference between BF109 and Spit was huge compared to 2.2. And totally isn't only the new hitboxes that make you hit better, those has much less to do with hitting the enemy than new physics. Its so easy to hit from every angle because planes are so slow now.

Planes would have been much better with 2.15 physics and 1.5 hitboxes.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: THeTA0123 on 09-10-2009, 17:10:29
The bf109 vs spitfire battles in 2.15 where fantastic


But the bf109 won most of the times, because of the crappy gun harmonization of the spitfire
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 09-10-2009, 17:10:33
The bf109 vs spitfire battles in 2.15 where fantastic


But the bf109 won most of the times, because of the crappy gun harmonization of the spitfire
Well spit was better in my opinion, if BF109 started climbing you just needed to follow. You just needed to climb in different angle, then when BF109 stopped climbing you just shot it.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 09-10-2009, 17:10:42
Hmm let me see.

Many people, who calls themselves "Born to Fly" are getting pwnd in 2.2 by New people?


Now you are trying to get the 1.5 Physics back because Flying is for everyone and not for a few?

You cant compare "Pro" pilots and Pro Tankers. Tankers is, basically, the one who knows more than the other, shoots first, etc. If you are a WW2 Maniac, then you understand that the 20mm Gun from the PzII will no nothing against M4A1 Sherman front armor. Noob tankers usually fires their puny 20mm Cannon on Shermans front armor, giving away his cover. And making the Sherman tanker laugh.

In flight, the one who turns better and has less Ping, Flying sucks in all Combined Arms games. Its not good in ANY game, exept for games like Lock On and IL2 Sturmovik. I always hated airplanes on FPS, they were for "Pro Only", unlike tanks. In BF42 u got pwnd in a couple of seconds because of "He has a Joistick" or a Pad whatever. while you have to use your Mouse.

It would be cool if we could have Weight in this game, like, a Stuka fully loaded, with 2 50KG bombs and 1 250KB bomb, plus the thousand of 7.62 Bullets, will fly more slower than a Stuka with empty ammo and no bombs. Agility will be altered also.

You think airplanes were "realistic" in 1.5? lol. they arent. They were the same as 2.2 but more "Heavier", you could stillpress Down Arrow for hours and making 0's so the enemy/AAs wont get you.

If i were Lobo, i would thank the guys who worked on airplanes and i will, simply, delete them.


Well we all should know that the planes in FH/BF2/PR Are nothing like real flying.  ;)


See I voted I liked them better in 2.15 ans its "ok" in 2.2

Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Toddel on 09-10-2009, 18:10:00
I did not read every Post before i want to make a clear statement!


AFRICA PLANES ARE ALTERED IN THE SAME WAY AS NORMANDY PLANES!!!!!

If you feel that the Africa planes fly better you are a fooled by the Enviroment because its the same code.

Now we have to made a Decision about our Planes. You can talk to 10 Persons about them and you will hear 11 Opinons.  At the End "WE the Devs" decide how they should be.  Inside our Team the most numbers of DEVs are happy how the Planes are now. we will do some smaller adjustments but that is it! We cant and we will NOT make it good for everyone.

You can see this in my Own case. I am the #1 Modeler for FH2. I care a bit for everything and im sure without me the Game doesnt happen. But even i cant have a Nosecam in plane as much as i want it. This is a Compromiss. Everything is a Compromiss. But at the end the Fun must be in 1st Place. and least for me Flying is much better now.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Toddel on 09-10-2009, 18:10:19
Oh and btw.... This Vote is total wrong


it should be:

Do you like the way planes fly in 2.2?
Yes!
No!
Liked them better in 2.15!   
I dont care!


how it is now the option "Yes" and "Its ok" is the same.

The 1.5 fly physics are total out of place because nobody care for BF2 1.5 Flight physics.


   
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: HappyFunBall on 09-10-2009, 19:10:02
Oh and btw.... This Vote is total wrong


it should be:

Do you like the way planes fly in 2.2?
Yes!
No!
Liked them better in 2.15!   
I dont care!


LOL, I haven't voted in this pole, even though I have posted in this thread, because that option wasn't there.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: NTH on 10-10-2009, 13:10:47
I did not read every Post before i want to make a clear statement!


AFRICA PLANES ARE ALTERED IN THE SAME WAY AS NORMANDY PLANES!!!!!

If you feel that the Africa planes fly better you are a fooled by the Enviroment because its the same code.

Now we have to made a Decision about our Planes. You can talk to 10 Persons about them and you will hear 11 Opinons.  At the End "WE the Devs" decide how they should be.  Inside our Team the most numbers of DEVs are happy how the Planes are now. we will do some smaller adjustments but that is it! We cant and we will NOT make it good for everyone.

You can see this in my Own case. I am the #1 Modeler for FH2. I care a bit for everything and im sure without me the Game doesnt happen. But even i cant have a Nosecam in plane as much as i want it. This is a Compromiss. Everything is a Compromiss. But at the end the Fun must be in 1st Place. and least for me Flying is much better now.

Thanks for clearing that up. I found it weird that people said the BF109 was made faster since 2.2.
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: flyboy_fx on 10-10-2009, 18:10:12
Well I have started to like the 2.2 planes!  :P ::)  There are just a few things like Gay takeoffs and they fly up like gravity is off but other than that I still Pwn the noobs. 8) ;D
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Schneider on 10-10-2009, 18:10:04
The gravity is off. :P
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: alexon on 10-10-2009, 22:10:48
i think planes are TOO slow. they can still fly on very low  speed which is totally unrealistic.
tanks can shut down planes with no hassle and the anti-air guns just shred planes apart. add to this small distance view of bf2 engine and you get planes almost useless  :(
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Kelmola on 11-10-2009, 02:10:36
It's still better than in 2.15. There the AT guns were almost as effective as AA guns in bringing down the planes ::) Now, the added manoeuverability means that planes have a chance to avoid AT and to some extent AA (unless they choose to fly low & slow, straight & level over a gun position...)
Title: Re: Plane Flight.
Post by: Lobo on 11-10-2009, 06:10:33
The gravity is off. :P

1) The gravity was always off, sue dice devs

2) BF109 was a jet pre-2.2, so if someone says is faster now you can laugh in his face

3) I like them more now, except the fast take off, and maybe they are slightly too agile