Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Off-Topic => Off-Topic => Topic started by: LuckyOne on 08-02-2019, 22:02:38

Title: Let's talk business...
Post by: LuckyOne on 08-02-2019, 22:02:38
So, I've been thinking of throwing some spare cash into this whole "invest in a startup" idea.

With the development of crowdfunding and crowdfinancing sites burning your money by playing the startup lottery has never been easier, so maybe i should stop financing my bookie's next house and start betting on real people with smart ideas!  ;D

Now I sure can't pick the next Apple or Facebook so I should stick to the stuff I understand... Such as apps & software. And cycling I guess?  8)

Has anyone here ever used these cool new high-tech bike parking racks that require an app to unlock? Do they seem like a reasonable development to you?

I can't shake the feeling of the idea being really stupid (one bug / dead battery / dropped phone away from having your bike locked forever) but lots of people seem to be really impressed by the whole sharing & gig economy and green mobility movements.

Anyone from a "developed" country not stuck in the "oil" age care to share their experiences? I heard this smart cycling and bike sharing stuff is getting popular in Estonia, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway etc... China is also big on this but I know we don't have many Asians around here
Title: Re: Let's talk business...
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 11-02-2019, 20:02:16
I did some reading on this whole thing and (atleast here in Germany) there are alot of black sheep among young start ups. Quite a few pitch a "fantastic new idea" to investors yet they don´t survive their first five years burning lots of investors money while going down.
There are also quite a few peer-to-peer money lending services where you can invest in cool projects. When it comes to this I wonder what kind of business tries to get a high-interest loan on these websites while it´s extremely easy to get regular business loans from traditional banks? Most of it sounds shady...therefore I stay away from any of that stuff. I´m not a bored billionaire with too much money to spare, but a normal income earner who wants to see good results.
If you´re just interested to invest some spare money of yours I´d suggest reading up on ETFs that replicate broad economical indices like the MSCI World or such. It´s less exciting than finding the next Facebook, but over time yields these shpuld yield solid returns.
Title: Re: Let's talk business...
Post by: Kelmola on 11-02-2019, 21:02:09
Finnfriend here.

High-tech locks with mandatory identification are an absolute necessity for bikesharing. You see, we used to have bikesharing racks where you simply put in a coin, much like you would put in a shopping cart at the supermarket. You can still see these bikes in bad parts of the city locked with the new owner's lock.

After a few years' hiatus, the bikes were brought back with a high-tech lock and time limit. Now borrowing one requires you to get a personal user number and PIN code by showing your ID at the city's transport authority. The rates are not too extraorbitant 5€ per day, 10 € per week, or 30€ for the entire April-October season (mind you, this is Finland so only masochists would cycle outside May-September and even May and September are highly weather dependent).

Sure, having a mobile app would be more convenient - until someone uses a 5€ prepaid SIM and a throwaway mobile to get a cheap bike. Block the prepaids, and then you block out the tourists as well.
Title: Re: Let's talk business...
Post by: LuckyOne on 11-02-2019, 23:02:50

If you´re just interested to invest some spare money of yours I´d suggest reading up on ETFs that replicate broad economical indices like the MSCI World or such. It´s less exciting than finding the next Facebook, but over time yields these shpuld yield solid returns.

Thanks for your input. I do realize this this sort of thing has about an 85 % chance of failure... But I guess it's still better odds than playing the lottery. ;D

I know how small firms operate, and being in the tech sector I also know how all kinds of bullshit can be sold to the tech unsavvy investors.

The problem is that it's kinda hard to invest in ETFs in the fringe parts of EU. The fees from currency conversion and brokerage tend to eat away decent parts of the profit so you have to invest in bigger lump sums, at least that was the case when I last researched stuff like Vanguard. So I don't plan to risk a lot on this sort of gambling. Just something that would get me like... a nice small city car on a successful exit.

Maybe things will change when banks and brokers finally start offering minimal fee mobile app investing. Right now I just stick to my bank's mutual funds and various types of savings accounts for the main part of my investments.


Thanks, nice to hear that it's actually working and that people use them "smart" things. I do feel that for example a smart rack manufacturer startup has a greater potential to succeed compared to the startup focusing on a bikesharing service/platform.  I think they aren't that critically dependent on the users because they can still sell the racks to companies, local government and public utilities. Whereas a bikesharing app has to get a critical mass of users quickly or it will never take off.

Anyway let's keep the discussion going, I'm really interested where other Euros keep their money. With Brexit looming and traditional savings accounts yields at the lowest historical levels we're in a really interesting situation. Southern and Eastern Europeans traditionally keep most of their "savings" in the form of real estate, but with the tax "reforms", exorbitant prices and the countryside slowly getting abandoned it's becoming less appealing every day.
Title: Re: Let's talk business...
Post by: Ivancic1941 on 12-02-2019, 19:02:42
From Croatia here  ;)
You know whats good with real estate, on example I want to do: if you have field or something, you can invest in planting walnut. Once they grow up you can sell them as high valuable tree for making furniture and other interior makings. Of course you cant have money from it right away, but its better and safer life-inscurance or money for kids university funding that most bank options that want to rob you.
Second thing Im interest is investment in stocks of medicine companies for developing cures. Im not saying those companies that are already on market, but there is a lot of beginer companies that are only orientated to developing cures and once they develop something its usualy huge rise in value of stocks... (I cant expres better,sorry)
Third, I think that time is coming that value of estates in villages and rural areas will rise again as richer people already go as far from cities as can.. so its not bad to save these things for future
Title: Re: Let's talk business...
Post by: hOMEr_jAy on 13-02-2019, 15:02:47
Lucky, I´m not sure how the situation is where you´re from, but in the past years ETFs became a really big thing in Germany. Almost all brokers offer a whole host of them (I wouldn´t be surprised if there´d be ETFs that replicate the water level of the nile) and at costs that are almost zero.
I´d not just focus on Vangouard, though it´s a bit of a holy grail, but there are other well-established and well-stocked ETFs available from different European countries. In fact, both of my funds are from Luxembourg. Maybe you´ll find a for an investment even in a fringe part of Europe? ;)

The reason I prefer ETFs over single-issue investment is risk allocation. The more you spread the risk the easier it is for you to avoid losing too much money. There were some really shady investment deals going on in Germany in the early 2000s and that scared off alot of people, especially those who´ve put "all of their eggs in one basket", as we say. If you have saved enough money to deal with daily financial issues (car maintenance, household equipment that might need replacement, a short-notice move etc.) then I´d find some broad investment that yields good returns and builds your wealth over time. If you then still have some "play money" left I´d find an interesting single investment where a complete loss wouldn´t hurt too bad. But not earlier.

Real estate. Boy, don´t get me started. It´s also a lottery game where the risk of loss can be quite large. Besides, it´s THE most concentrated form of risk I can think of. I know, it´s probably not a popular argument, but I see more risks in RE than benefits, atleast for most folks with a normal income.
Title: Re: Let's talk business...
Post by: kummitus on 13-02-2019, 21:02:40
The Helsinki city bikes are the best thing ever, and now the city boats that started in Espoo are coming over as well :)

The exorbitant average rent in Helsinki prolly means that I guess I'm quite likely to go and buy apartment in few years. I'd bet that it will suck up most of free money lying around.

Got few grands on Nordnet "superrahasto" a cost free fund. Little volatile but I guess ok in the long run.