Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Off-Topic => Gaming => Topic started by: Wilhelm on 03-03-2017, 05:03:56

Title: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Wilhelm on 03-03-2017, 05:03:56
This is a nice surprise! A WW2 tactical RTS from the makers of RUSE/Wargame Series and published by Paradox Interactive (EU4/Hearts of Iron/etc.)

http://www.steeldivisiongame.com/

I can't wait to see more about this game.  ;D
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Sander93 on 03-03-2017, 09:03:40
Hope it will be like Wargame, but set in WWII. I really liked their semi-realistic approach to RTS.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: ajappat on 03-03-2017, 10:03:08
Yup, I have high hopes for this.

Edit: Couldn't help but notice how they claim their maps are based on aeriel photos, yet FH2 has more accurate pegasus bridge  ;)

(http://www.eugensystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Steel_Division_Normandy_44_Screenshot_02-1024x576.jpg)
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Born2Kill 007 on 03-03-2017, 12:03:23
The release I look most forward to. Wargame Red Dragon is my favorite RTS and I had been hoping for long to see a WW II version of it, it seems that that is exactly what we're getting.

The only main concern I have lies with Paradox. I feel DLC milking incoming.

(http://i.imgur.com/zWqyM84.jpg)
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Sander93 on 03-03-2017, 22:03:13
The only main concern I have lies with Paradox. I feel DLC milking incoming.

After games like Battlefield 1 and Warhammer Total War I actually don't really mind DLC as long as prices are fair. DLC for these games adds (will add) loads of content and they keep the game alive, for reasonable prices. DLC for Wargame Red Dragon was great as well.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Born2Kill 007 on 04-03-2017, 01:03:48
I stopped the BF series the moment they demanded you to install spyware (BF3) and stopped bothering the Total War series when their DLC madness started (didn't wanna buy Rome II on release because they were gonna spam DLCs and I didn't wanna pay infinite money, and after that, I basically stopped caring about it, haven't even bought it today, I just switched to other game series by now)
That being said, I agree in willingness to pay for sufficient new content and the revival they can bring. For the Wargame DLCs, I'm a bit divided. I bought them because the devs gave the first DLCs for free and because I didn't mind supporting the devs for the great game they made, and which I felt I underpaid. That being said, from a point of view of just what they add, I think they were overpriced. And what bothered me even more with the paid DLCs is how they were made extremely OP when they were released, each time to get nerfed a few times a month later. Every player knew the OP sides of the new factions when they were just announced and not even tested yet. I can't imagine that the gamedevs didn't notice this when making them and didn't notice it while testing it. It made lobbies very one-sided for a few weeks, and players that didn't have the DLCs had a lot harder time to compete, which resulted in some people just not playing until it got patched. If you need to make multiplayer DLCs OP just to sell them, then you're doing it wrong in my opinion.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: ajappat on 04-03-2017, 10:03:38
I stopped the BF series the moment they demanded you to install spyware (BF3)

Remember how Wargame EE allegedly had StarForce DRM at first? Atleast they apparently got rid of it.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Sander93 on 04-03-2017, 22:03:38
And what bothered me even more with the paid DLCs is how they were made extremely OP when they were released, each time to get nerfed a few times a month later. Every player knew the OP sides of the new factions when they were just announced and not even tested yet. I can't imagine that the gamedevs didn't notice this when making them and didn't notice it while testing it. It made lobbies very one-sided for a few weeks, and players that didn't have the DLCs had a lot harder time to compete, which resulted in some people just not playing until it got patched. If you need to make multiplayer DLCs OP just to sell them, then you're doing it wrong in my opinion.

Larger companies tend to do this (like Wargaming) a lot, but I kinda doubt Eugen did it on purpose. The team behind Wargame is really small (they even outsourced their modeling) and I think they simply didn't have the resources to have the DLC factions tested or to run some kind of closed beta.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Born2Kill 007 on 05-03-2017, 01:03:38
Well, Wargaming is Free to play, I mind it less there.
I have considered them actually not being able to test it enough, especially considering how badly the game was played when they demonstrated the new units, but the community already indicated what would be OP and why even before the launch. If people can see it just from stats and they say on forums why, then I think they should be able to identify the problem. Especially as they usually displayed the units already 2 weeks before release. Also, they should have been able to run it on a beta, as some youtubers had access to the factions and could play them way earlier than everyone else. They also once did an open beta of a patch (maybe you remember, when they have the VDV 20 HE on their AKs)
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: VonMudra on 10-03-2017, 19:03:01
Ugh, I keep trying to use the "Sign Up" button on their website, but all it does is reload the home page.  What gives? :S
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Zoologic on 15-03-2017, 07:03:27
Cities: Skylines is published by Paradox, and I think they are okay. If CSL is an indication, they should release many free new textures / uniforms / vehicles along with paid DLCs. Colossal Order is a small Finnish studio, they bled too much tax money to support failing EU already. Therefore, their DLCs are reasonable according to my third-world middle class income.

For Steel Division: As long as they keep expansions per theatre / operations basis, I'm fine paying $10 (EUR 7) for each of that. And Eugen Systems, like Colossal Order, sometimes listens more to their players compared to other developers. That is a huge plus IMO.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Born2Kill 007 on 15-03-2017, 11:03:10
Sorry for going off-topic, but
Colossal Order is a small Finnish studio, they bled too much tax money to support failing EU already.

Uhm... You are aware right that EU has support funds for the video game industry, right? And that their strong intellectual property support is another indirect boost? Not to mention that only a tiny amount of our taxes actually go to the EU, compared to our share that goes to the city, province, region and federal govt.

Better known examples:
https://telltale.com/community/discussion/97803/the-witcher-3-subsidy-and-ethical-policy-thoughts
http://wbj.pl/the-witcher-3-extension-with-eu-grant/
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Born2Kill 007 on 06-04-2017, 11:04:48
I got an e-mail today that you can pre-order it on Steam now to access open beta. Realse will be 23rd of May. I hate the timing, I'm drowning in work for university and the game I looked most forward to is now released. I guess I'll wait a bit to buy it to prevent myself from making mistakes. The game looks so awesome though.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Sander93 on 07-04-2017, 07:04:26
I preordered and played the beta. It plays a lot like Wargame, but it will take some getting used to. There are a few hiccups that I don't like (planes dropping huge cartoon-like bombs etc) but otherwise looks like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 22-05-2017, 18:05:35
Is infantry combat better than in Wargame?
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Leopardi on 24-05-2017, 19:05:58
Is infantry combat better than in Wargame?
Which wargame?
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 25-05-2017, 02:05:56
Well, any of them, but let's say Red Dragon.

Edit: Any more first impressions?

I'm thinking of getting this, but also looking at Close Combat: Gateway to Caen, which is of course older and less shiny looking, but at the same price seems to offer a more realistic game.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: ajappat on 26-05-2017, 15:05:17
Bought it and played few skirmishes and first set of campaign missions so far.

It sure feels a lot like wargames. Scale is somewhat smaller and maybe the pace is a bit slower. Supression plays a huge role in infatry combat and well placed machine gun or mortar strike can really halt enemy attacks. Infatry doesn't die fast in MG fire though, they just hit the dirt and lay there until enemy stops shooting, they are ordered to retreat or enemy walks up on them and they surrender.

Unit diversity isn't anywhere near red dragon, but I guess there's still plenty of stuff to choose from. I also like the idea of having divisions instead of countries as "factions", it nicely opens door for some minor nations in future too.

All in all, I'd say most wargame fans will like it and most who disliked wargame, will dislike this too.

Oh and I lost first campaign mission on first try and didn't win skirmishes at all  ;D. Never thought myself as rts wizard or anything, but man this game can be hard.

Edit: Armored combat is quite different from wargames, as they left the hitpoint system out. Tanks have front/side/rear armour values and AP value. If round penetrates, it either kills the tank outright or sometimes breaks something like engine for example. Tank crew can bail (for good) even when shot with ineffective weapons enough times. Tanks are also a lot more sluggish than in wargames. It almost reminds me more of men of war than wargame.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: VonMudra on 26-05-2017, 18:05:49
The biggest problems I've had are with the tank system, the AA/aircraft system, and the suppression system.  The tank ap system is wonky when I see my Panther being shot by plinkers from a Stuart to the frontal armour, and the Panther crew bails/panics because of it.  Also German optics are, for whatever reason, all rated as Bad to Very Bad, and they can't make hits in combat that would have been easy to make IRL (let's not forget the Germans noted a ~95% hit rate in combat on first shot at ranges around 1000 yards, and 100% at closer ranges).  This makes tank combat awkward to me, with lots of slow aiming, slow firing, and long times to get even a single hit on a stationary target.  This basically means German advantages in range/penetration/armour/optics are all moot when you can't even hit the allied tanks that are out in the open and simply bum rush your Pz4 or Panther (which, as FHer's, we all know was not the case in real life).

The AA system is wonky because AA seems incredibly weak and nigh-unable to shoot down a single enemy aircraft.  AS we know here, AA was extremely deadly, the allies lost hundreds and hundreds of planes to AA during Normandy, and it was by far the main killer of enemy planes in WW2.  Meanwhile the aircraft all seem far far too effective- I'm able to carpet bomb shit to death with a Ju88, pinpoint rocket attack enemies with a Typhoon, etc.  Hell, even if I miss, the crew/infantry is so panicked that they're still pinned or retreated for what seems like ages past when the enemy is long gone.

This goes into my problem with the suppression system- the enemy can suppress your artillery with a few machine gun bursts, then comfortably ignore it for a long time or just walk up and take them out across open ground without hassle, because your guncrew/infantry is still cowering despite not being under fire.  Same for retreating- an infantry man is not going to retreat through enemy fire- he's going to hunker down and panic, possibly surrender, or try to crawl away.  The fact that you can't really select infantry formations (like dig in/prone was in Blitzkrieg) means that inevitably your infantry/support units get bogged down when they come under fire, and vice-versa with the enemy.  While it's realistic to be able to force them to go to prone and have to slowly crawl under fire, they should still be able to shoot back and move around, albeit slowly.  Hell, there isn't even hand to hand combat options, so you literally can't order a final assualt even if you do get close enough.

Basically, I see a lot of promise, but there is stuff I want to see modded to bits, or try modding myself.  Thankfully, they are supporting modding.
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Ts4EVER on 26-05-2017, 19:05:38
So this is not like Combat Mission, more like RUSE?
Title: Re: Steel Division - Normandy 1944 (Paradox & Eugen Systems)
Post by: Wilhelm on 26-05-2017, 21:05:54
So this is not like Combat Mission, more like RUSE?

I would say it is closer to RUSE than it is to Combat Mission, definitely.  However, it is closer to Wargame than anything else.

This guy has some nice videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5YxrVGYcJo