Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Feedback => General => Topic started by: Kev4000 on 13-09-2009, 01:09:02

Title: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 13-09-2009, 01:09:02
Give me feedback on the 3D ironsights here.
To let me explain, there are 4 animations for each of the 3D ironsights, 6 animations for guns with rifle calibers (for sway).

Generic animations:
-tozoom: the transition between standing and zoom_stand. Bren and BAR for example have a longer animation than M1 Garand of Enfields tozoom.
-zoom_stand: the main ironsight animation. Rifles: have sway here, +/- 0.15 degrees. SMGs: usually have an up/down sway, mostly irrelevant to gameplay since they're not accurate enough for sway to make a difference.
-zoom run: animation that moves the gun right/down, back to center, then left/down.
-Zoom fire: The animation played when firing. Cycles the bolt, makes the weapon bounce full of recoil.

Rifle caliber only animations:
-zoom_crouch: the ironsight animation played when crouching. Only rifles have this one. +/- 0.10 degree sway
-zoom_prone: ironsight animation with no sway. Makes shooting prone extremely accurate.

Note about sway: it goes down/right, back to center, down/left, back to center, and loops. The bullet will always shoot center!
Technical notes sway: It rotates down .15 degrees, and right/left .15 degrees, pivoting from the camera.
Technical notes M1 Garand/G43 zoom_fire: It rotates, pivoting from the camera, upwards 4.5 degrees. It returns to normal after 9 frames, which means 0.36 seconds after firing, the ironsight will return to center. I can supply more technical data on other guns by request.

Keep to constructive criticism, and try to keep it technical. For example, if you want less sway, tell me how many degrees of sway you want. I'll add good suggestions to our internal build for gameplay testing by our testers, however I will not guarantee anything will make it into the public version unless the testers approve of it.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ionizer on 13-09-2009, 01:09:29
Out of curiosity:  All Sniper Rifles have zero sway when prone now, correct?  In 2.15, the No.4 Sniper would still sway while prone, while the K98 ZF would not.  From my observations so far, the K98 ZF, No.4 Sniper, Pattern 14 Sniper, and Springfield 1903A4 all have zero sway while prone.  What about the StG44 ZF and Gewehr 43 ZF?  Are there any other sniper rifles?  Does the K98 ZF41 count as a sniper rifle, and does it have zero sway while prone?

Also, do the M1 (and M1A1) Carbine, StG44, and Carcano 91/38 Carbine count as "Rifle Caliber" weapons for purposes of sway?  Since technically, I think they use smaller rounds than rifles...
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 13-09-2009, 01:09:21
All sniper rifles now have zero sway when prone. All of them should be using the same animations (thus the same amount of sway). I'll make sure they're all up to date for the next public version, perhaps even tone down the sway a bit. Only difference for the snipers between standing and crouching is the speed of the sway, not the amount. A vital fact for standing and sniping is knowing the bullet will still go center, so wait with shooting till its at the top of the /\ shaped sway.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 13-09-2009, 04:09:21
Zoom_Stand/crouch/prone - Fine

tozoom - fine

Zoom_run - While it is plausible to move the gun when someone is moving, the fact of the matter is the avatar of the player is walking, there is no real need for the drastic back and forth bounce that the guns have now. While I agree there should be movement while the avatar is in motion, the back and forth bounce is a bit too much. Rather a very slight, and I emphasize the very, and slight, up and down movement. As a shooter myself, walking and looking down the sights is easy, there is no drastic change in sight picture.

Zoom_fire - You already know my thoughts.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Fuchs on 13-09-2009, 18:09:13
Also, do the M1 (and M1A1) Carbine, StG44, and Carcano 91/38 Carbine count as "Rifle Caliber" weapons for purposes of sway?  Since technically, I think they use smaller rounds than rifles...
Not smaller, M1 Carbine is 7,62mm, StG44 is 7,92mm, Carcano 91/38 has even got a larger calibre then it's ancestor, the 91, being 7,35mm.
Only the M1 Carbine and StG44 use shorter variants in the means of gunpowder. So definately not smaller, even bigger with 1 weapon :P
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 13-09-2009, 22:09:36
How do you feel about using the same animation for zoom_run as for zoom_stand, just with a .30 degree sway instead of a .15?

Yes, M1 Carbine and StG44 have the same sway as rifles.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 13-09-2009, 22:09:36
sounds fine to me
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: FlyGuy45 on 14-09-2009, 00:09:50
So, when zoomed in, the bullet will always go to the center of the screen?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 14-09-2009, 00:09:28
Yes, thats what FireInCameraDOF does...or is supposed to do. The DICE explanation even says that checking that code or typing it into a weapon makes the bullet come from the cross-hair and now the weapon. However I've used it in a number of configurations and even with it disabled the bullet still seems to come from the crosshair.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 14-09-2009, 02:09:04
I also tried moving the camerabone for the sway (so the sight is always center), didn't work as I hoped, so we're stuck with the current sway for now. Not realistic, but it serves its purpose.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 14-09-2009, 04:09:04
Its hard to judge whether it works...I can't really say. I mean how do we judge where the bullet is coming from without guessing? The only way I could see is with a large dummy, like a mortar round, and a really low muzzle velocity.\

ediT:

well tried a few things...tis official. Doesnt work. DAMN YOU EA
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: VonMudra on 14-09-2009, 05:09:31
The K98k sight is not correct:

http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=1838.0
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Chuc on 14-09-2009, 06:09:45
Just a few words about the work you guys have done.

There's a very distinct lack of "snap" with the firing animation that unfortunately plagues a lot of other games. At the moment the fire animation is simply on the first frame, pulling the weapon back and having it take about 8 frames to settle back to neutral. Speaking just from experience and experimenting for over a year on the technique, what I've settled on for PR (God forbid) was the system I described to you. It's not perfect, but it should give you some ideas. (technical description of the technique is in the PM I sent you)

Resulting effect on the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CQNZ76-SLk

Also regarding your shift animations, I think it's a shame that you guys didn't implement a 'zoom_shift' animation when working the bolts. The transistion between firing and bolting at the moment seems quite jarring, something that can be remedied with the 'zoom_shift' solution. For example, your kindly donated No. 4 rifle as seen in the third part of the video.

This may have the greatest bearing on gameplay, something I would rather stay out of the dicussion of.. but aesthetically I also suggest you guys lengthen your 'tozoom' animations and the delays for virtually every small arm that has a value of around 0.08 (or basically a super split second). But I've also noticed a discrepancy between the delay set in the tweak file (which has been standardised to 0.125) and the value in the animation system file (which seems to be all over the shop, values of like 0.08, 0.208333 etc etc). It's best you guys match those values to avoid any odd visual glitching and mismatching of timing. Also the benefit of a extended tozoom animation (matching the 0.125 value) is that you can have a nice smooth-looking (and also potentially more interesting) transistion from hip to sighted in. In the video I've slowed it down to PR's standard of 0.4 seconds (which I don't expect you guys to adopt).

With bolt cycling, I suggest there should be a standard timing for the moving of the working parts. I've just noticed on the Garand that it's about 4 frames from open to closed, and on the Carbine it's about 3. I recommend 3 frames max.

It'll also be nice if your modellers could also align the rifles for you, rather than the animators having to rotate the weapon to get the sights to align ;)

Bear in mind these are all just things I think would really lift the standard of presentation of an already well polished mod, however in terms of animation there are still quite a number of things that need to be perfected I'm sure you know.

- Chuc
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 14-09-2009, 08:09:18
Already noted Chuc. I've made four new different M1 Garand animations already. Once betatesting starts up again we'll try them all out. One of them, using the techniques you described, is extremely similar to the M1 Garand animation in your video.

Noted the tozoom times in the .tweak vs animation. Added to my todo list.

We also tested using a zoom_shift animation. However, it was disliked because you have to cock your rifle before being able to sprint or run.

Keep the feedback coming!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 14-09-2009, 12:09:03
Chuc makes a-lot of good points, my main thing is that as I read what you type about reasoning for many of the animations I become confused. Such as shot dispersion being the reason for the extremely over the top zoom_fire animations, that in an artistic sense are not all that great to look at, but in a technical sense are making the weapons hard to use. Shot Dispersion is handled by deviation code, let the code handle it, there's no need to add things to these animations that don't exist in the code and have no effect on the weapon.

The random muzzle climbs and awkward bouncing of some of the weapons when fired doesn't effect where  the bullets are going, so there is no need for those movements to be there. It just doesn't make sense to me why it has to be FH2's ultimate goal to confuse the player, rather than make easily recognizable and adaptable game-play mechanics.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 24-09-2009, 22:09:31
Not sure if this has been already said somewhere, but it seems harder to hit anything in crouch with a sniper than prone or even standing...maybe its just me... but I pretty much have to stand to avoid having my view completely obscurred by brush rather than crouch and make myself less of a target cuz I couldn't hit squat.. or almost couldn't

Now for general animation... I'm not sure... It looks lovely, alot better than 2D and more fluid... BUT, someone once said it was the worng distance, and after watching a few 2.2 vids, I must say I agree... It might be a bit too revolutionary, but the view from the sight should basically fill the lower end of the screen - As is now, swiching from firing from the hip to firing down the sights seems to be pretty much shifting the weapon to the center of the screen... It was the case in 2D sights.. but it seems more obvious in 3D sights

Like I said, it might be a bit experimental and may kill gameplay if done, since the only game I know that uses this correctly is BIA... but it's worth considering, no?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Nerdsturm on 25-09-2009, 05:09:01
Not sure if this has been already said somewhere, but it seems harder to hit anything in crouch with a sniper than prone or even standing...maybe its just me... but I pretty much have to stand to avoid having my view completely obscurred by brush rather than crouch and make myself less of a target cuz I couldn't hit squat.. or almost couldn't

If your crouching or standing the scope moves in and unpside down "V" shape, however the shot always goes to the same spot at the top of the shape. Just shoot when the scope is at the top of the "V" and you'll hit a lot more.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 26-09-2009, 01:09:05
thanx
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 18-11-2009, 04:11:42
I've done a lot of changes based on feedback from this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjOV4DR_H24&fmt=22
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Biiviz on 18-11-2009, 05:11:39
I've done a lot of changes based on feedback from this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjOV4DR_H24&fmt=22

Looks awesome!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: rattovolante on 18-11-2009, 10:11:50
BAR recoil still "looks" a bit too low
I know a BAR weights almost twice than a Garand, but the difference "looks" huge from the video
sorry I can't be any more technical, I have no idea how their recoil actually feels in real life



BTW, just nitpicking but since the mod strives for detail...
was the Carcano 91 rear sight modified? in 2.2 it's set to 450m instead of battle sights (0-300 m). Since virtually all engagements in FH2 are at very short range, battle sights would be more appropriate

Rear sight set at 450m (this is how FH2's model looks like in 2.2):
(http://www.il91.it/images/canna91lungobis_0156.jpg)

Raising rear sight (up to 2000m for volley fire):
(http://www.il91.it/images/canna91lungobis_0157.jpg)

Full forward position sets sight to battle sight for 0-300m:
(http://www.il91.it/images/canna91lungobis_0155.jpg)


PS: could the "shooting range" test map be released? I guess many players might find it useful! :)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 18-11-2009, 11:11:34
need to be very nice to knoffhoff to get that map
i asked him a few times but he doesn't want it released.
it is a functional map that serves very well for our testing, he did a good job on that one. not sure why he refuses to release it.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 18-11-2009, 11:11:56
Maybe because of all those juicy unreleased not-yet-shown upcoming goodies, ooOOooOoooOOoo?  ;)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: DLFReporter on 18-11-2009, 11:11:35
Maybe because of all those juicy unreleased not-yet-shown upcoming goodies, ooOOooOoooOOoo?  ;)

QFT... of shite black choppers outside all of a sudden....
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: rattovolante on 18-11-2009, 12:11:56
Maybe because of all those juicy unreleased not-yet-shown upcoming goodies, ooOOooOoooOOoo?  ;)

Is there extensive amount on unreleased content in it?
if not, just remove it and only keep the released stuff.

Ok, a shooting range map isn't too hard to make from scratch, but the one in the video looks very nice and I'm against reinventing the wheel (er... map) in general
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 18-11-2009, 14:11:33
Reason is we want people figuring out weak spots on tanks etc. by actually playing and not finding out on a firing range.

However, all the neccesary content and statics are in the mod. Can't stop ya from making one yourself.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-11-2009, 16:11:22
Will you add the 3d scopes to all sniper weapons?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 18-11-2009, 16:11:02
Will you add the 3d scopes to all sniper weapons?

Way ahead you. :)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-11-2009, 16:11:11
Nice. However, I would make the space that is taken in by the scopes bigger, to reduce the "unzoomed" area around it, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 18-11-2009, 17:11:59
i know what you mean
this makes sniping a bit harder at first since the target is smaller. just takes some more practice to adjust to the changes.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 18-11-2009, 18:11:10
The problem is not the small aiming area, but the big area that is not supposed to be zoomed in.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 18-11-2009, 18:11:55
Realistically, the big area outside the scope should be bigger but unzoomed. So I think those scopes are a good compromise.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Killi Vanilli on 18-11-2009, 20:11:12
Looking great, Kev.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 18-11-2009, 20:11:54
Realistically, the big area outside the scope should be bigger but unzoomed. So I think those scopes are a good compromise.

Maybe devs could make the black are of the scope bit longer(closer to eye) but keep the reticle same size. As it looks kinda odd when you can see so much zoomed stuff outside the scope.

Or just make the outside of the scope very blurred, if possible.

At least for sniper scopes, don't know if STG scope zooms as much.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 18-11-2009, 23:11:42
... don't know if STG scope zooms as much.

It has 2x zoom. But I agree with you, that the area outside the scope should be not that visible, but I don´t know if it´s possible to define different degrees of blurring for different weapons.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 18-11-2009, 23:11:56
Ya I can up the blur on it. Check our the blur on the K98 ZF41 which is already ingame. On the flip side, the reticle is also blurred when I add too much.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 19-11-2009, 11:11:33
You dont necessarily have to add blur, it would suffice to make the scoped in area larger.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 19-11-2009, 13:11:42
That would look silly. I say keep it like it is.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 19-11-2009, 16:11:48
Well it look good on killzone 2 sniper, you can only see bit outside of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1EBJwB1y-c     <-- like that.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 19-11-2009, 17:11:37

Flashy and "cool" for sure. But reality vs. funky arcade shooter. I hope the first wins in FH2.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 19-11-2009, 17:11:58

Flashy and "cool" for sure. But reality vs. funky arcade shooter. I hope the first wins in FH2.
Et kyllä selvästikkään ole koskaan ampunut kiikarikiivärillä.

Well that was more real than FH. Killzone 2 is pretty realistic compared to FH, of course its sci-fi but guns work pretty realistically.

Well anyway that new looks better than the old one.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 19-11-2009, 18:11:03
Toinen silmä kiinni ja toinen kiinni kiikariin? Ei, en ole ampunut kiikarilla niin.

More real than in FH2 right now, yes. And yes, Kev's new scopes are muuuch better than the old ones.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: K.Nassau on 19-11-2009, 19:11:14
There should be definetly something visible on your surroundings while you're aiming with a scope and Killzone 2 for me doesnt look very realistic.

Kyllähä siinä pitää jotain nähä jos on kiikarikiväärillä ampunu oikeaoppisesti.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 20-11-2009, 13:11:03
Juu niin pitää mutta kun silmä focusoi siihen ristiin niin ei kyllä näe paskaakaan ympäristöstä(vaikka toinen silmä on auki), liikkeen kyllä huomaa.

Really nice scope!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Tedacious on 27-11-2009, 01:11:24
I-KIRJAIN ajaa ei osata jokin soumi lukuunottamatta yxi kaxi kolmen, paskapää, siipää, puolalainen voi ja vittu. ja -lta elämäntapa voi vittu! ". Joten pohjimmiltaan I-KIRJAIN olen kirjaillen nyt kuluva ajaksi ei ajatella järkevästi , I-KIRJAIN kohtuullinen haluta jotta hyvässä kunnossa kotona. ja I-KIRJAIN odottaa nyt kuluva kielenkääntäjä I-KIRJAIN olen kohteleva tehdas hyvä , te erottaa we!

I think the scopes are good. you focus on the middle reticule anyway, I don't think I have ever looked outside the scope when zoomed in.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: :| Hi on 27-11-2009, 01:11:17
its not really something your going to notice anyways, unless your jacking off at an uncap with it
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kelmola on 28-11-2009, 17:11:39
I-KIRJAIN ajaa ei osata jokin soumi lukuunottamatta yxi kaxi kolmen, paskapää, siipää, puolalainen voi ja vittu. ja -lta elämäntapa voi vittu! ". Joten pohjimmiltaan I-KIRJAIN olen kirjaillen nyt kuluva ajaksi ei ajatella järkevästi , I-KIRJAIN kohtuullinen haluta jotta hyvässä kunnossa kotona. ja I-KIRJAIN odottaa nyt kuluva kielenkääntäjä I-KIRJAIN olen kohteleva tehdas hyvä , te erottaa we!
Remember, kids, this is why you should never use automatic translation for anything else except individual words or very short and simple sentences ;D
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Desertfox on 28-11-2009, 22:11:53
its not really something your going to notice anyways, unless your jacking off at an uncap with it
*unbuttons fly*  :P
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: :| Hi on 28-11-2009, 23:11:48
The horror!   


*hides the children*
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Desertfox on 29-11-2009, 03:11:24
LOL
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 29-11-2009, 13:11:36
I-KIRJAIN ajaa ei osata jokin soumi lukuunottamatta yxi kaxi kolmen, paskapää, siipää, puolalainen voi ja vittu. ja -lta elämäntapa voi vittu! ". Joten pohjimmiltaan I-KIRJAIN olen kirjaillen nyt kuluva ajaksi ei ajatella järkevästi , I-KIRJAIN kohtuullinen haluta jotta hyvässä kunnossa kotona. ja I-KIRJAIN odottaa nyt kuluva kielenkääntäjä I-KIRJAIN olen kohteleva tehdas hyvä , te erottaa we!
Remember, kids, this is why you should never use automatic translation for anything else except individual words or very short and simple sentences ;D

And dear Lord especially not Finnish. The translators work best for languages with atleast some common origin....Finnish isn't even indo-european!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ciupita on 01-12-2009, 19:12:11
I-KIRJAIN ajaa ei osata jokin soumi lukuunottamatta yxi kaxi kolmen, paskapää, siipää, puolalainen voi ja vittu. ja -lta elämäntapa voi vittu! ". Joten pohjimmiltaan I-KIRJAIN olen kirjaillen nyt kuluva ajaksi ei ajatella järkevästi , I-KIRJAIN kohtuullinen haluta jotta hyvässä kunnossa kotona. ja I-KIRJAIN odottaa nyt kuluva kielenkääntäjä I-KIRJAIN olen kohteleva tehdas hyvä , te erottaa we!

"Letter I Drives can't something Finland/Finnish(?) except one two threes, shithead, ???, polish can and fuck. and from lifestyle oh fuck! Therefore in essence Letter I i'm writing now spending time not thinking rationally, Letter I moderate wants so that in good condition at home. And I letter waits now consumable translator Letter I i'm treating factory, you fire us!"
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Graf_Radetzky(CZ) on 01-12-2009, 19:12:48
In google translator:

I do not know anything except soumi Yxi kaxi three, bastard, siipää, Polish, and can fuck. and of course to you! '. So basically I'm writing this for no reason, I just want to fit in the home. And I hope this translator I am using works good, you tell me!


What the hell is siipää? :D
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 01-12-2009, 19:12:43
Quit it. Stay on topic or I'll have to bring out the broom and sweep off all this filth.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: emiik on 04-12-2009, 19:12:47
Hi Kev4000,

I love so far what you have done with weapons. Maybe after next patch I can even hit something with M1A1 Thompson because now in 2.2 the sight goes rather weird when shooting. But anyway there's something that bothers me with weapon animations.

The problem is that currently one can almost immediately raise to ironsights and shoot accurately after sprinting, which in my opinion isn't the way it should be. I know that there's a small animation which happens when player moves the weapon from sprinting stance to hip but one can shoot during the animation or even completely bypass it (or it is just too fast for my poor eye to see it). This is particularly annoying with SMGs but it works with rifles as well.

Now this could be fixed by making the tozoom time longer, and I know you have already almost doubled it for the next patch (big thanks for that althought I would like it to be even longer ;)), but I think that won't be enough and after reading this thread I've understood you ain't gonna make it even longer.

So I ask that is it possible to make one unable to shoot while that transition from sprinting stance to hip stance is active and make it possibly last a bit longer? This would make people to think more where and when to sprint and making it a less superior offensive tactic.

Edit: Deleted the video.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 05-12-2009, 02:12:49
It looks much better with the longer tozoom time, but not entirely fixed. I'll look into fadein and fadeout times for sprinting.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 20-01-2010, 10:01:53
Bump.
Any opinions on the new system or all good? That is besides the MG42/MG34. I'm doing some experiments with those weapons but will not guarantee anything at this point.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Fuzz on 20-01-2010, 15:01:38
The new first person animation is awesome, but useless...You can just cancel it when clicking fast on the zoom when the animation start. I don't know if it's possible to force the animation before use the ironsight.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ionizer on 20-01-2010, 20:01:59
The new first person animation is awesome, but useless...You can just cancel it when clicking fast on the zoom when the animation start. I don't know if it's possible to force the animation before use the ironsight.

You mean the one for the Mg34/42?  You could do that before.  Works for Boys/Pzb.39 as well, but at least the Pzb seems to still have a delay before you can fire it if you do that.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 20-01-2010, 22:01:19
The new first person animation is awesome, but useless...You can just cancel it when clicking fast on the zoom when the animation start. I don't know if it's possible to force the animation before use the ironsight.

This topic is only for the ironsights only, not for the going prone animation. Ironsight animations include zoom_stand (standing sway), zoom_crouch (crouching sway), zoom_prone (no sway), zoom_run (walking when zoomed), zoom_fire (the camerashake and the weapon being pressed towards the screen), aswell as the tozoom (animation played between right clicking and ironsight).

However, on that note, the animation is such to prevent dolphindiving. Upon going ironsight after proning, you will have to wait before you can fire.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Fuzz on 21-01-2010, 15:01:30
Humm ok noticed. So no problem for me  ;)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: MikeBeehan on 02-02-2010, 12:02:29
Hey Guys
I know I'm new.

I play for a FH2 tourny and find the new Sniper Rifle Sights pretty annoying I have put 10/15 rounds down on one person before actually hitting them.

When I had the Old sights I could be hitting them within 2/3 shots.


I used to love being sniper as I could call in Atry for my team mates and if anyone got too close I could kill them before they could see me.

I still try looking for them on the Weapon Selection screen also sometimes hehe
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Lainer on 02-02-2010, 12:02:21
Well Mike the good news is there is nothing wrong with your currently issued sniper rifle!  The bad news is that you joined the wrong side.  The sight of our axis horde bearing down on you and your squad mates can be very unsettling.  Ones hands will start to shake and shots will be missed!  I advise ditching the sniper kit and picking up a medic kit.  Just start throwing bandages out in front of you as you dash for the safety of your main.  Good luck!   ;D

In all seriousness welcome to the forums Mike.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: MikeBeehan on 02-02-2010, 12:02:07
hah :) cheers

Well Its mostly the K98ZF I find I can't hit anything with, in seriousness have they changed the sight?

because its smaller then it used to be.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 02-02-2010, 13:02:22
Yes, the scopes were changed in the latest patch. Now they actually look like real scopes.

I, for one, think that now it's much easier to hit with sniper rifles. :/
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: MikeBeehan on 02-02-2010, 13:02:06
Its harder! :P I can't even get the pointer right anymore.

Maybe I just gotta practice on SP for a while hehe

Don't get me wrong, I can hit things maybe once or twice with 1 round but thats like after like 2000000 rounds of ammo
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Smiles on 02-02-2010, 15:02:25
Weird, i believe the bullet drops faster when fired from a scoped weapon than the unscoped variant.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Eat Uranium on 02-02-2010, 15:02:23
Weird, i believe the bullet drops faster when fired from a scoped weapon than the unscoped variant.
No, both use the same projectile fired at the same velocity.  The drop just looks more because you're zoomed in.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: THeTA0123 on 02-02-2010, 16:02:52
Since the 3D weapon sights, i have become loved with the No4 enfield

Before 2.2 and 2.25, i couldnt hit a target if it was 50m away
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Smiles on 02-02-2010, 16:02:38
Weird, i believe the bullet drops faster when fired from a scoped weapon than the unscoped variant.
No, both use the same projectile fired at the same velocity.  The drop just looks more because you're zoomed in.

Yes thats why it confused me, common sense says that ofcourse it can just be visual but.. it just feels differnt. Apperently im compensating automaticly with unscoped rifles when hitting targets far away.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: mopskind on 04-02-2010, 17:02:55
Hi guys, few thoughts about the sway:I think its always a bit annoying when people do a olympic-record-like sprint over 600 meters and then shoot as if they where totally calm and cool. I believe it would be more realistic if you would depend the weapon sway on your stamina bar (that word correct?). For example if you are in the "red zone" and you go in zoom your weapon will sway lot more (and yes even the elite trained soldiers in ww2 suffered from this;)) than if your stamina bar is full. This would add a lot of atmosphere and it would make attacking on fortified positions harder. I hate it when im on a mg and the enemy runs/hops/dolphindives and whatever and then stop and boom..Opinions on that?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: hslan.GN_Angrybeaver on 04-02-2010, 17:02:42
when possible,i would say yes!  ;D
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 05-02-2010, 07:02:01
Hi guys, few thoughts about the sway:I think its always a bit annoying when people do a olympic-record-like sprint over 600 meters and then shoot as if they where totally calm and cool. I believe it would be more realistic if you would depend the weapon sway on your stamina bar (that word correct?). For example if you are in the "red zone" and you go in zoom your weapon will sway lot more (and yes even the elite trained soldiers in ww2 suffered from this;)) than if your stamina bar is full. This would add a lot of atmosphere and it would make attacking on fortified positions harder. I hate it when im on a mg and the enemy runs/hops/dolphindives and whatever and then stop and boom..Opinions on that?

I'd love to implement it, but sadly not possible on the BF2 engine.

On the snipers, technically they are much more accurate now. A lot less sway then the previous sights, but may be harder to judge if the sway is centered or not. They have the same drop as their rifle counterparts.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 06-02-2010, 07:02:47
Kev, I'd really like it if you'd implement the bolting of the rifle while in ironsight zoom instead of unzooming all the time, going through the bolt action, then having to manually re-zoom into ironsights. Kind of like in Chuc's video, for how professional this mod is, I'm surprised the animation hasn't been implemented yet. The current ones are lifeless and stale, however the one in Chuc's video is awesome and very fluid.

Also, I'd really love if the Bren gun's rear ironsights to be expanded a bit more. I can't really see anything through those sights.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 06-02-2010, 11:02:35
Thing is, when the animation plays during zoom in, you can't zoom out while it is playing. This is especially annoying when you want to run right after popping a shot, because you must then move slow like when you're zoomed in. Feels very unnaturyl and counterintuitive.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Desertfox on 06-02-2010, 15:02:17
What if you had to hold to zoom back in after working the bolt? For example fire, hold left mouse button, and it go's back to ADS.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 06-02-2010, 20:02:17
I don't think that would really be a problem. It works fine in PR (god forbid). If it really can't be done, then at least make the bolting animation more fluid. The ones right now feel very unnatural, like he's only moving his wrist.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 08-02-2010, 00:02:55
Another reason we've chosen to stick with zoom out on bolt, is to make them feel more like bolt actions. Else they'd just be a semi auto rifle with a one second delay, for all intents and purposes. We tried it internally and chose to not use it.

And to cycle a bolt, one only has to flick the wrist. No need for lengthy or unnecesarry movements.

Keep in mind that tozoom/unzoom can get jittery in BF2 due to bad netcode. Locally it feels very fluid.

Keep in mind though, your complaint is still noted. Just that everyone not complaining I list as complying.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: psykfallet on 13-02-2010, 14:02:37
Hello, would it be possible for you to zoom in the thompson and bren sights abit, I found that when shooting I can't see or hit anything because the circles are so small combined with the recoil
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 13-02-2010, 15:02:33
Could Bren sight ring be a bit bigger its so hard to hit with it to moving targets because you need to lead more than the sight allows. Plus the ring is so wide.

Much as you have done with M1 Garand for gameplay reasons. You can't fire bursts or auto with Bren because the sights are so small.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 17-02-2010, 12:02:35
Bren rear sights have been changed (enlargened) for the next patch. Will look into the thompson but can't guarantee anything.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 17-02-2010, 12:02:08
didnt wanted to say anything but now as kev posted it
the NEW bren sights are much better and allow better aiming . since the recoil "increase" from last version the new sights will balance the gun out again
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 17-02-2010, 13:02:27
didnt wanted to say anything but now as kev posted it
the NEW bren sights are much better and allow better aiming . since the recoil "increase" from last version the new sights will balance the gun out again

Ain't no recoil increase. However I have made bipod folded and bipod deployed versions. Deployed features heavy deviation when standing or crouching but less recoil. Folded features more recoil but less deviation when standing or crouching.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: psykfallet on 17-02-2010, 16:02:37
this is good news
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 19-02-2010, 02:02:32
Will it be MG42 style where when you go prone they deploy or will you select a "weapon" with the deployed bipod.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Eat Uranium on 19-02-2010, 02:02:40
Will it be MG42 style where when you go prone they deploy or will you select a "weapon" with the deployed bipod.
Currently, both weapons can be fired standing.  This may change for the bipod down version, but its not likely.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 25-02-2010, 12:02:38
Will it be MG42 style where when you go prone they deploy or will you select a "weapon" with the deployed bipod.

Check the Bar1918, as its based on it. You will be able to fire the deployed Bren crouching and standing, but with much higher deviation. So while low on the recoil side, you still won't be able to hit much long range.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 26-02-2010, 06:02:36
That's fine, I only use the Bren Gun on single fire mode anyways.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: THeTA0123 on 26-02-2010, 16:02:57
Crawling with an MG34 going forward and sideways=looks fantastic
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: katakulli on 26-02-2010, 23:02:36
Crawling with an MG34 going forward and sideways=looks fantastic
you're right tao ;)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Mayhemic.MAD on 27-02-2010, 15:02:01
Nice to hear about the Bren changes, I can´t even remeber when I last used it because you loose so much visibility when you aim with it.

Doesnt matter. It should be theta123 as it was my C&C Name, but ye... i was in a jolly mood back when making an account for BF2.... and my mate was just at home and said= Why 123 and not 0123?  One large discussion came.............to shut him up, i used 0123
Your mate is right, you cant deny the Peano Axioms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms)  ;D
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 05-03-2010, 08:03:15
About the BAR and bren, will it be too much to have both version in 3rd person i.e folded bipods when you select the one with folded bipod and extended bipod when you select that one instead? Currently, irrespective of which you select, save for a noticeable difference in fire rate, you still see a 3rd-person LMG with bipod extended

Really good news about the new sights and bren variant though
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: McCloskey on 05-03-2010, 15:03:53
Yeah, that'd be real nifty... I mean, it's weird as everyone has their BAR set to 650rpm and they're running around with deployed bipod - kinda ruins the immersion for me.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 06-03-2010, 20:03:13
(http://www.home.no/kev4000/thomps.jpg)

Compare to:

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/news/090904/ironsight02.jpg)

Do keep in mind there are field of view differences from 4:3 (first) to 16:10 (second).
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 07-03-2010, 12:03:55
The British field of vision seems more use-able - Gives more for the hole to cover

However, I thought about it. Aiming down a sight for a Thmpson, you shouldn't even see that back area in totality should you... I mean, can it possibly be alot closer.. I that rear-sight should be right infront of your face, right?

Or is there a problem making guns that close to the screen?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: McCloskey on 07-03-2010, 14:03:37
That big hole looks rather weird to me. What I mean is that a slightly bigger close-up of the gun would appeal better I think (I'm on the same boat with djinn basically). Also, I actually don't have a problem with the Thompson as it is now in 2.25 but if something has to be done, I don't really think it should be modifying iron sights in itself (the model of the gun) as it appears unrealistically to be honest (those sights of Thompson should really be small, shouldn't they? like Garand's are small too).
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 07-03-2010, 14:03:09
That big hole looks rather weird to me. What I mean is that a slightly bigger close-up of the gun would appeal better I think (I'm on the same boat with djinn basically). Also, I actually don't have a problem with the Thompson as it is now in 2.25 but if something has to be done, I don't really think it should be modifying iron sights in itself (the model of the gun) as it appears unrealistically to be honest (those sights of Thompson should really be small, shouldn't they? like Garand's are small too).
The holes in FH2, and every other game, must be much much larger in order to make the sight actually work. There are pretty much no way to make an aperture sight to work like in real life. To make aiming possible, the hole in the rear sight is made larger.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 07-03-2010, 21:03:14
Yep, all games have such enlargened ironsights. Aperture cameras (really complex!) are required to make it realistic. Doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime in the near future. For comparison,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW7XrMRWZDU

http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/webupon/2008/03/13/125391_19.jpg

To this:

http://images.snapfish.com/3447558%3B23232fp58%3Dot%3E2337%3D599%3D%3B:6%3DXROQDF%3E2323:37483873ot1lsi

Anyway, thus ironsights are optimized mostly for gameplay. While the new Thompson ironsights aren't visually better, I hope they'll make the weapon better in gameplay. So give feedback with this in mind.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 07-03-2010, 21:03:08
Wow, that's some huge M1-garand.. Looks like the AT version - And the sights are huge!

One thing aside that I did notice was how that American soldier's uniform is nothing close to grass-green and the well-fitted buttoned up sleeve you can see, as seen in all WW2 games save for FH2... I really wish they'd change the first person sleeve for the American soldier etc... It really looks like nothing more than a cylinder than a sleeve. But again, an aside

How about keeping the sights as they are and simply having it closer to the screen. Any word on why that isn't an option... More like Brothers in Arms
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 08-03-2010, 11:03:14
i like the new bigger holes ^^

the small holes make aiming difficult,  they might work well in RL but not in games thats why ALL games have much larger sights than in RL.

the small sight hole is the main reason why i dont like to play with the M1A1 thompson.

the thompson 1928 is fine though
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 08-03-2010, 12:03:30
One thing aside that I did notice was how that American soldier's uniform is nothing close to grass-green and the well-fitted buttoned up sleeve you can see, as seen in all WW2 games save for FH2... I really wish they'd change the first person sleeve for the American soldier etc... It really looks like nothing more than a cylinder than a sleeve. But again, an aside

Not really for this topic, but FH2 got this one right, everyone else is wrong. Mostly from hollywood first getting it wrong. Then everything else being based off of hollywood. There are other colors indeed, but the green we have is a lot more common then most think.

For example:
http://www.atthefront.com/khaki_spr_comp.jpg
In the (oh so desaturated) movie:
http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1600000/SPR-wallpaper-saving-private-ryan-1669460-1440-900.jpg
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 08-03-2010, 12:03:57
Also, brothers in arms uses airborne uniforms, maybe they look a bit different.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 08-03-2010, 12:03:23
Also, brothers in arms uses airborne uniforms, maybe they look a bit different.

http://www.atthefront.com/khaki.htm
Page explaining it all

http://www.thehistorybunker.co.uk/acatalog/airborne300.jpg
Shows US 101st airborne.

All games should feature the Olive Drab uniforms.
Reason Brothers in Arms does not, is because BiA is not based on reality. BiA is based on Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers.

Someone should seriously re-saturate SPR and BoB, it would be fun to watch how it actually looks.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 08-03-2010, 12:03:19
What I said about BIA was that their ironsights are alot closer to the screen - Perhaps that would help make the sights 'bigger' while not actually exaggerating them

And about the uniform, thanks for the pix - and thanks for clearing that up. But again, those are OD green, FH2's are grass green - Alot darker than the pale green you've shown me (I do wonder how movies all the way back to say, the 60s also seem to get it that way and coloured war footage too) - Perhaps it won't hurt having both brown and OD in?  but YES very off-topic
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 08-03-2010, 12:03:37
Ironsights aren't closer to the screen in BiA, the field of view is just limited more (same effect), which can indeed make it larger. There's no strict rules on how to represent field of view on a computer screen. There's no concrete borders on your eyesight.
However closeups are not really feasable with 3D ironsights in BF2 due to it lacking advanced field of depth effects. It becomes notoriously pixelized without them if too close. We figured it was worth the sacrifice for having 3D ironsights. The cameras in our 3D ironsights are generally about where you'd position your eye. Also another thing, I like keeping it simple to an extent aswell. Having them too close can make gameplay seem jittery and unsmooth.

Just something I did for laughs - resatured a screen from SPR:
http://www.home.no/kev4000/spr.jpg
This makes the actual movie look like walking dead, haha

I did some quick comparisons and samples of the OD green, I found nothing specifically wrong at first sight. Keep in mind there are several variations to OD green aswell. However, I forbid further discussion on it here, firstly I'm not an artist, secondly wrong topic.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 08-03-2010, 12:03:08
@djinn:

i think the problem in bringing the weapon "closer" to the eye is it would start clipping, and you can see the inside of the model.

at least that was one of the problems with the MP40 and i guess other weapons too
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 08-03-2010, 12:03:40
@djinn:

i think the problem in bringing the weapon "closer" to the eye is it would start clipping, and you can see the inside of the model.

at least that was one of the problems with the MP40 and i guess other weapons too

This is why the field of view is limited to make it seem closer, and not the camera actually moved closer.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 08-03-2010, 13:03:02
ok, thanks... Just looking for a way of given a good aim is all - I do like FHs ironsights, don't get me wrong - Just wanted to see if we covered all our bases :-)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 08-03-2010, 14:03:12
you are not the only one thinking about stuff like that ;)

but you are right better ask before an opportunity is passed.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 09-04-2010, 09:04:53
Could we see a new picture of the Bren gun sights please?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: psykfallet on 09-04-2010, 13:04:17
I kinda wish you wouldnt have the airplane sight up on the 300rpm BAR, it just makes it harder to see
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 09-04-2010, 13:04:41
i m pretty sure it is not a sight for AA purpose
but i agree the sight blocks the view a lot

but wait for next version ;)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 09-04-2010, 14:04:13
It's not AA sight, just a flip up tangent sight for looooonger ranges.

Even the Mosin-Nagant had one up to 3km.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: :| Hi on 13-04-2010, 05:04:56
It's not AA sight, just a flip up tangent sight for looooonger ranges.

Even the Mosin-Nagant had one up to 3km.

Link pl0x
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 13-04-2010, 11:04:30
It's not AA sight, just a flip up tangent sight for looooonger ranges.

Even the Mosin-Nagant had one up to 3km.

Link pl0x

Here you go:
(http://photos.kitmaker.net/data/21056/1891_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle_Sight.jpg)
It's actually up to 32*100m=3200m
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 14-04-2010, 07:04:58
What the hell is the point of those sights? I doubt anybody can see a target at 3200m, let alone hit one.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 14-04-2010, 08:04:46
Shiggles. You remember this was also used in WW1? With this, anyone could be a sharpshooter, and having 500,000 of these in your army gives you 500,000 sharpshooters.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 14-04-2010, 09:04:36
i know that the vickers MG was used for indirect fire.
meaning it sits somewhere in a trench and fires on ranges it cant see but with bullet drop/forward spotters etc they could hit inside trenches etc

now imagine 500k russians with nagats all firing indirectly at some target 3000m away.
volley fire :D (i dont think this is true but somewheat reminds me of that russian bomber with the 80 something downward facing ppsh smgs for starving runs.)

anyways most weapons have sight markings for ranges far beyond effective firing range, not sure why  though.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 14-04-2010, 13:04:36
Rifle caliber bullet isn't that lethal after 3200 meters :P.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Die Happy on 14-04-2010, 15:04:06
i know

but maybe explosive bullets :D
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: THeTA0123 on 17-04-2010, 00:04:38

now imagine 500k russians with nagats all firing indirectly at some target 3000m away.
volley fire :D (i dont think this is true but somewheat reminds me of that russian bomber with the 80 something downward facing ppsh smgs for starving runs.)

;D(http://www.newlaunches.com/entry_images/0708/11/fire_hedgehog-thumb-450x598.jpg)

Japanese even had AA sights for their arisaka rifle's
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: :| Hi on 17-04-2010, 01:04:42
Holy shit thats crazy, any info?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: ajappat on 18-04-2010, 18:04:47
Holy shit thats crazy, any info?
IIRC it was only that one prototype, until they found that it's more effective to just use small bombs.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Seth_Soldier on 18-04-2010, 18:04:53
It's not AA sight, just a flip up tangent sight for looooonger ranges.

Even the Mosin-Nagant had one up to 3km.

Link pl0x

Here you go:
(http://photos.kitmaker.net/data/21056/1891_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle_Sight.jpg)
It's actually up to 32*100m=3200m

here an nice explanation from old' smith:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5117/cw0711.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6818/cw0712.jpg
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Jürgen on 18-04-2010, 19:04:49

here an nice explanation from old' smith:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5117/cw0711.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6818/cw0712.jpg

Where could I see the continuation to that?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: ajappat on 19-04-2010, 00:04:09
Lol steel lion. At first I looked it was my picture of my arisaka :P It wasn't, but quite similar  ;D
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s300/ajappat/HPIM0357.jpg?t=1271628216)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Slayer on 19-04-2010, 22:04:00
So, that's your arisaka. Is that also your bed?










 ;)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Seth_Soldier on 20-04-2010, 12:04:09

here an nice explanation from old' smith:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5117/cw0711.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6818/cw0712.jpg

Where could I see the continuation to that?

"Charley's war"
It's a 80's comic about Charley Bourne going to WW1, then you follow him during the white war in russia and finally during the battle of france during ww2.

I've found it somewhere over the internet one day :P (600mo all the book)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 13-05-2010, 09:05:46
For 2.26, some cameraspring tweaks have been implemented. That's how the weapon lags after the camera.

Here's a video showcasing some of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syGCZnhELs4

While most will probably not think twice over it, I know the more hardcore players will. The changes give the weapon models more on screen time, and I hope it increases player immersion. I warn that it may seem a bit foreign to start with, but atleast once our testers had gotten used to it, it was generally well liked.

Due to the nature of such changes, there will be discussions regarding it. Please keep any comments regarding it in this thread.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 14-05-2010, 09:05:58
Looks really good. Finally I can see my Thompson while firing ;D.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: McCloskey on 15-05-2010, 10:05:55
Yay! It's great so far, although I've found out that rifles with bayonets fixed are not reveresed (rifle moves down if you walk forward) which I don't know if it's intended but as you want to STAB the enemy it would actually make more sense to me if soldier raised the rifle as he's charging that enemy. MGs (at least MG34) seem not to be reversed as well, but there I can't say it "bothers" me or something as I don't see a point raising that x kg heavy MG to the air in front of you anyway.

Good job :) (AND MAN, THAT BAZOOKA ROCKS. I mean, when I saw The Pacific Iwo Jima part and there they took out that MG nest with that Bazooka I was just dreaming about that kinda Bazooka in FH2 (well even earlier, but since then it only got worse).... FH2 devs are the most awesome ppl walking on this planet :D)

(also, I'm not sure but is it possible to have 2 models for Bren & BAR? I mean, one with folded bipod and the other with deployed bipod - for undeployed and deployed mode respectively)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 15-05-2010, 10:05:17
(also, I'm not sure but is it possible to have 2 models for Bren & BAR? I mean, one with folded bipod and the other with deployed bipod - for undeployed and deployed mode respectively)

Didnt you try them out?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 15-05-2010, 10:05:20

(also, I'm not sure but is it possible to have 2 models for Bren & BAR? I mean, one with folded bipod and the other with deployed bipod - for undeployed and deployed mode respectively)
That's how it is in 2.26 :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyeKo00W5Po
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: McCloskey on 15-05-2010, 11:05:02
I meant in 3p. Anyway, how about making it so when you're deploying the bipod you don't "change" your weapon but you actually deploy it (animation wise).. I mean, like when you're mounting a frag/heat nade on a rifle (I think it is possible, saw a video on utube) :)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 15-05-2010, 11:05:18
3P is still in vanilla boots. Hopefully we'll start to see some more cosmetics done to the third person views.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Leopardi on 21-05-2010, 00:05:52
Tbh I don't like the blur effect. You can't scan for targets with your eyes while aiming like you would do in real life.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Battlefieldfan45 (CroPanzer) on 26-05-2010, 23:05:19
The new STG running animation (and the STG got some refining, didn't it?) is just sweet  ;D
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Excavus on 27-05-2010, 08:05:12
All weapons should get new running animations. They should bob up and down more, right now they are kind of static.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 30-05-2010, 00:05:30
Professional sprinters try to keep their head going in an as straight line as possible, so all their energy spent goes to forward momentum. Besides, its simply not worth the time required to re-export all the sprint animations. However, more camera animations are being considered, but they will remain subtle, as they are a primary cause of simulation sickness.
http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/pc/articles/8149.aspx
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 27-07-2010, 13:07:57
Just noted something odd: Was playing Alam Halfa and noted that the reflection in my k98 scope was that of Goodwood...

Also, noted that the 88, unlike any onther cannon, has absolutely no shocke effect on by-standers
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 07-08-2010, 16:08:08
I would like to see the outside of the scope on snipers much more blurred if it is possible.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Martinlegend on 13-10-2010, 15:10:34
the Lay down animation for The MG 42 Gunner would be good for all , i think

that would be a good compination with the new Dolphin Diving system
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 13-10-2010, 17:10:17
the Lay down animation for The MG 42 Gunner would be good for all , i think

that would be a good compination with the new Dolphin Diving system


^^THIS!!!!

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jWNhyMUpjSE/Sbm6PB1_6jI/AAAAAAAAC_0/Sho4qWL5Dq4/s400/pedo-bear-seal-of-approval.png)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: [ret]azreal on 13-10-2010, 23:10:20
No, you'll throw up all over your computer after about 5 minutes of play. Two minutes if you play on a CQB map.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Smiles on 14-10-2010, 00:10:15
Yup, to be honest i dont like the animantion at all, appreciating all the effort but it makes me dizzy from time to time ( and no not only when drunk). It has to much movement in it without my body moving with it, resulting in some sort of car sickness.

Again, i like the animation its looks all natural, but i tend to go to ironsights as soon as possible cause my brain melts otherwise.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: naoko on 06-12-2010, 16:12:19
the iron sign is bad. I mean when you aim to light place then that fine, the iron sign still can seen clearly but when aim to dark place the iron sign almost can't seen.
thanks ::)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: ajappat on 06-12-2010, 17:12:49
the iron sign is bad. I mean when you aim to light place then that fine, the iron sign still can seen clearly but when aim to dark place the iron sign almost can't seen.
thanks ::)
Screens? I have never seen such dark darkness on any map where iron sights would be too dark to be used.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: naoko on 06-12-2010, 17:12:27
i will send the Screen shot ASAP
but maybe the problem cause i use texture and detail in medium setting  :)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: DLFReporter on 06-12-2010, 17:12:30
Me neither. Perhaps it could happen on Operation Hyacinth with a CRT Monitor but never with a TFT.  What is darkness? ^^
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: ajappat on 07-12-2010, 00:12:48
I'm also on medium settings at all. Dynamic lightning is on. I'd love to see same darkness as arma 2 has tough  ::)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: naoko on 07-12-2010, 05:12:33
here we go...the pic (can you see the iron sign?)(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/naoko2/screen017.jpg?t=1291697736)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: ajappat on 07-12-2010, 11:12:00
That's really small image and I can't see lots of other stuff I normally see. But everything seems just fine otherwise  ???
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: DLFReporter on 07-12-2010, 13:12:36
It's a small image, but you can clearly see the two horizontal bits that line up with the vertical bar straight in the middle of your screen. If you see the enemy between the two horizontal bars, then just shoot. you will hit him.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: naoko on 08-12-2010, 18:12:57
but the enemy shot me first since i can't see them behind the bush lol.....
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Neighbor Kid on 12-01-2011, 06:01:45
need more sway
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 19-01-2011, 10:01:51
Alternatively, I'd say it could actually be all the way close like it would be in real life with no need for zoom whatsoever, but that's just an alternative way of seeing things... I feel it would add to immersion as it would be more like the real thing.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 27-01-2011, 01:01:46
Alternatively, I'd say it could actually be all the way close like it would be in real life with no need for zoom whatsoever, but that's just an alternative way of seeing things... I feel it would add to immersion as it would be more like the real thing.

Not really. Real world doesn't use pixels. Which means in the real world it is easier to see far away targets. Zoom is meant to compensate for that. Not like there's an invisible scope on the rifles.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: SiCaRiO on 27-01-2011, 04:01:39
doesnt zoming iron sigths gives an unrealistic advantage over scoped weapons? for example, i guy with a k98 would see things x4 times smaller than a guy with a k98zf in real life, while in FH2, a guy with a k98 would see something x2 times smaller than a guy with the k98zf? making him better at long rage battles ?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Vernah on 27-01-2011, 04:01:34
I will /facepalm if iron sights are like PR. A guy 20 feet away is smaller than my left testicle, the zoom is needed because real life doesn't use pixels and objects further away are larger than they appear in-game.

As for scopes, I think they're fine. The only disadvantage snipers have is that you can't adjust ur sights whereas on the k98 u can just laser people from over 9000 feet away.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: SiCaRiO on 27-01-2011, 05:01:43
look at it this way

real life : iron sigth-->1x
             scoped---->4x

FH2 :     iron sigth--->2x
             scoped---->4x

if you are gonna have normal weapons with zoom to represent RL better resolution, then scoped weapons should also have a bigger zoom, regardless of what their zoom was IRL, so in this example, instead of 4x we should have x6 or something along that line. otherwise your are making the advantage of scoped weapons (long range accurate) really small, when you can engage at long range with a simple ironsigthed rifle
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 27-01-2011, 11:01:08
Ye but you can't hit smaller targets that hiding behind cover on long range if you don't have a scope. Scopes are for precision on long range and for obscured sights.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 08-02-2011, 00:02:47
There's two types of zoom.

One is optic zoom. The other is lowered field of view. Ironsights represent lowered field of view. It also compensates for not being able to see details far away which you'd be able to see IRL.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 08-02-2011, 17:02:47
I still wonder what it would be like. No zoom, natural sized ironsights, close-range gun.... and i think a more justifiable blurr... Worth testing, imo
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Vernah on 13-02-2011, 17:02:37
There needs to be zoom Djinn, PR doesn't use zoom on iron sights and it's terrible. Objects are simply too small without the zoom. I think even RO2 devs came to this conclusion as well.

I'm kinda on the fence about boosting the zoom capabilities of scoped weapons, if there is too much zoom they're useless but if there isn't enough then the advantage isn't that massive in range. The view distances don't really help much either in this regard on certain maps. Even if we do add more zoom, it'll be even more annoying when we have to aim 10 feet above a guys head just to hit them :P Should just test it regardless, for example I find the Gewehr sniper variant to be an LOL sniper rifle since the zoom isn't even that beneficial.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: LuckyOne on 14-02-2011, 13:02:21
I'd say keep the zoom, I'm having trouble hitting stuff anyway...
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: djinn on 15-02-2011, 16:02:54
I think it's worth experimenting with. Try close-range iron-sights without zoom and real-world aiming apparatus and lets see if it wont create a surprising success.

I for one can see less pixel aiming with this fact, more close-shots rather than ironsight snipers, and a clear advantage for snipers ingame... But like everything about this, its just theory until actually tested, imo
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 21-02-2011, 21:02:49
Firefights would take longer and hitting would take more skill, I like it. It's currently so easy to hit targets 400 bf2 meters aways with Lee Enfield.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 22-02-2011, 18:02:19
Firefights would take longer and hitting would take more skill, I like it. It's currently so easy to hit targets 400 bf2 meters aways with Lee Enfield.

Did you measure the 400m? I'd be willing to bet 50 euros that you'd have some trouble hitting a live target at 400m with a lee enfield (unscoped). At 400m in FH2, you must aim about 2 meters above, and half a second ahead. If the enemy is prone, or moving, it is next to impossible.

But the field of view is already large in FH2, so distances seem further away then they are. I'm sure that you'll be surprised if you actually measure it. But that's also the argument for keeping zoom.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 22-02-2011, 18:02:13
People over estimate ranges ingame. There is no map that has longer view distance than 600m. I dare you to consistently hit an infantry target at fog distance on Totalize.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 22-02-2011, 19:02:08
For doing accurate measurements can use grids. On 2x2km maps like Totalize a grid is 256m. On 1x1km maps a grid is 128m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP95sNUVyY

here you can see at 1:35, took me 3 shots to hit a stationary target at 300m with a sniper rifle. Now I could hit him repeatedly after knowing exactly how high to aim at that distance, but judging this on the run on a moving, or prone target is much harder.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 23-02-2011, 00:02:23
As for scopes, I think they're fine. The only disadvantage snipers have is that you can't adjust ur sights whereas on the k98 u can just laser people from over 9000 feet away.

This is a funny problem, but not from the side of the engine but the players mind. While using an uscoped weapong on longrange you will aim a bit above the target. The fun fact is that, when you are aiming with a scoped weapon you will also aim above the target, but not enough. This is because of two things:
1. The target seems closer than it is through the scope, making you aim lower in general
2. You know at least a little by heart how high to aim with the unscoped version, you might aim as high with the scoped gun, resulting that you will actually aim lower due to the zoom
3. With zoom aiming as high as with the unzoomed view will look higher with zoom than without.

This is what makes aiming with scoped weapons feels to be harder then with unscoped ones. But with a little practice you will adjust this, resulting that you hit much better. Also you can actually see the impact of the bullet with the zoom, so you can adjust your aim, while without zoom you have to guess if you have to aim higher or lower.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: kummitus on 23-02-2011, 01:02:01
That's why I've never been able to rack up shitloads of kills with sniper what I tend to do from time to time with regular rifles  :P

Could do with some practice perhaps.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 23-02-2011, 08:02:37
Firefights would take longer and hitting would take more skill, I like it. It's currently so easy to hit targets 400 bf2 meters aways with Lee Enfield.

Did you measure the 400m? I'd be willing to bet 50 euros that you'd have some trouble hitting a live target at 400m with a lee enfield (unscoped). At 400m in FH2, you must aim about 2 meters above, and half a second ahead. If the enemy is prone, or moving, it is next to impossible.

But the field of view is already large in FH2, so distances seem further away then they are. I'm sure that you'll be surprised if you actually measure it. But that's also the argument for keeping zoom.

Actually I killed 4 guys in Siege of Tobruk with 5 shots might have not been 400 BF2 meters but it sure was a lot (my sights were as big as targets). I was a Brit and had walked bit forward from the front line and the Germans were running on the hill in front of me, then I just layed down and shot them, that doesn't happen too often but it when you have had 3 long range Africa maps in a row you start to get hitting people in huge ranges.

Also killed a German 88 gunner in their base in Gazala from the hill to east and have done that fairly many times, only problem is that the 88 usually get in front of the guy otherwise it ain't THAT hard.

But the point was that if the zoom in 1x then it's harder to shoot at medium range that is currently easy, especially in Normandy where engagement ranges are ~50 meters. IF the zoom would be smaller you might even have a chance running trough the field without getting killed by the first shot. This would make machine guns also much better and machine gunners might not die right away after being spotted (after first kill or burst) if the rifleman can shoot a bit.

IMO it really worth a try.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 23-02-2011, 18:02:39
Or... just don't run through open fields.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Paavopesusieni on 23-02-2011, 18:02:03
That's not the issue...
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Galslacht on 13-04-2011, 15:04:49
Why do so many people think FH2 has realistic weapons?

It has not. One shot one kill pinpoint accuracy on all rifles (yes, I know, BF2 engine limitation) isnt realistic at all. There are no actual ballistics like you see in RO and DH. Im glad PR tries to mimic ballistics, but when people say FH2 has realistic weapons, it's nonsense.

I die alot more in FH2 than in PR or Darkest hour, using the exact same tactics. FH2 is flawed with the weapon-system imho.

There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho. Makes it all the more a fragfest, for WW2 FPS I'd rather play Darkest Hour instead of this.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Thorondor123 on 13-04-2011, 15:04:57

It has not. One shot one kill pinpoint accuracy on all rifles (yes, I know, BF2 engine limitation) isnt realistic at all. There are no actual ballistics like you see in RO and DH. Im glad PR tries to mimic ballistics, but when people say FH2 has realistic weapons, it's nonsense.

I die alot more in FH2 than in PR or Darkest hour, using the exact same tactics. FH2 is flawed with the weapon-system imho.

There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho. Makes it all the more a fragfest, for WW2 FPS I'd rather play Darkest Hour instead of this.
In FH2, if you get hit by a rifle bullet to head or torso, or upper legs or arms you die. Would you not be incapacitated by that in real life? Also, rifles are accurate, as they should be. However, that means nothing if the player isn't a good shot.

As for ballistics, yes, FH2 does have ballistics. Have you used a marksman rifle or a scoped machine gun? It is easier to see the ballistics since FH2 does not have any nonsense like BF42 tank ballistics. In PR, the weapons shoot into random direction (artificial deviation), that is not ballistics.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Lightning on 13-04-2011, 16:04:42
There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho.
What would you change? We cannot add weapon sway like Red Orchestra have. The best we can do would be to increase the size of the cone of fire on the rifles, so that there's a degree of luck involved in hitting your target. Would that be a better option?
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: LuckyOne on 13-04-2011, 16:04:55

What would you change? We cannot add weapon sway like Red Orchestra have. The best we can do would be to increase the size of the cone of fire on the rifles, so that there's a degree of luck involved in hitting your target. Would that be a better option?

No. I like it the way it is... it still takes skill to shoot people especially at longer ranges, and on short range you often miss with your rifle...just because it is pinpoint accurate...(and because of BF2 weird hitboxes :P)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ts4EVER on 13-04-2011, 17:04:24
I don't see how random deviation is more realistic. People act as if having 100% accurate rifles means that 100% of all shots hit. This is not the case, as people make mistakes. The only thing that makes the gameplay spammy and the casualty rate high is the fact that most battles take place over less than 75m. Even I could hit someone over that range irl. I can't tell you how sick I am of people coming in here saying "You can hit people over 1000m hurr durr" when in reality they are only shooting over 60m. Try hit someone consistently at fog distance in Gazala (which would be 600m).
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 13-04-2011, 17:04:53
I think we need to look at this as a game first, a simulation second.

Nobody said that deviation was a realistic representation of ballistics, what deviation does give you however is the ability to tailor weapons to specific roles, and to control the ways in which players fight.

One of the most shining examples of deviations glory is the current misc deviation added when jumping and going prone. That single change has damn near eradicated the dolphin diving problem in the game.

Deviation is used when players are moving to make their shots less accurate, forcing them to stop, or zoom in to lay down accurate fire. I have no personal problems with the accuracy of the shots, I like my rifle shooting where I place my sights, what I would like to see though is the subtraction times increased.

Currently players can run up at quick speeds, and quickly hit crouch to collapse the crosshair to a near pin-point shot, this means that without zooming in players can quickly and instantly engage targets with a rifle, even after having ran or sprint a long distance. I would like to see the subtraction rate on the move deviation decreased, so that when players crouch or stop, they have to, if I will go so boldly, "catch their breath" to lay down accurate fire. This would prevent people from running into open areas, knowing them can quickly crouch to engage targets, and instead would encourage them to move from cover to cover instead, knowing that as they stop, they wont be able to lay down fire immediately. In addition the lowered subtraction rate on the rifles would allow iron sights to take more precedence over unzoomed fire. Players would find that zooming in would give them a better chance of hitting their targets quickly, but for that accuracy they sacrifice their movement speed, and thus players will get behind cover and utilize their iron sights before just randomly pulling the trigger.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: LuckyOne on 13-04-2011, 20:04:51
I think we need to look at this as a game first, a simulation second.

Nobody said that deviation was a realistic representation of ballistics, what deviation does give you however is the ability to tailor weapons to specific roles, and to control the ways in which players fight.

One of the most shining examples of deviations glory is the current misc deviation added when jumping and going prone. That single change has damn near eradicated the dolphin diving problem in the game.

Deviation is used when players are moving to make their shots less accurate, forcing them to stop, or zoom in to lay down accurate fire. I have no personal problems with the accuracy of the shots, I like my rifle shooting where I place my sights, what I would like to see though is the subtraction times increased.

Currently players can run up at quick speeds, and quickly hit crouch to collapse the crosshair to a near pin-point shot, this means that without zooming in players can quickly and instantly engage targets with a rifle, even after having ran or sprint a long distance. I would like to see the subtraction rate on the move deviation decreased, so that when players crouch or stop, they have to, if I will go so boldly, "catch their breath" to lay down accurate fire. This would prevent people from running into open areas, knowing them can quickly crouch to engage targets, and instead would encourage them to move from cover to cover instead, knowing that as they stop, they wont be able to lay down fire immediately. In addition the lowered subtraction rate on the rifles would allow iron sights to take more precedence over unzoomed fire. Players would find that zooming in would give them a better chance of hitting their targets quickly, but for that accuracy they sacrifice their movement speed, and thus players will get behind cover and utilize their iron sights before just randomly pulling the trigger.

I'd rather have the crosshairs removed... much simpler... with nearly the same result...
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 13-04-2011, 23:04:01
I think we need to look at this as a game first, a simulation second.

Nobody said that deviation was a realistic representation of ballistics, what deviation does give you however is the ability to tailor weapons to specific roles, and to control the ways in which players fight.

One of the most shining examples of deviations glory is the current misc deviation added when jumping and going prone. That single change has damn near eradicated the dolphin diving problem in the game.

Deviation is used when players are moving to make their shots less accurate, forcing them to stop, or zoom in to lay down accurate fire. I have no personal problems with the accuracy of the shots, I like my rifle shooting where I place my sights, what I would like to see though is the subtraction times increased.

Currently players can run up at quick speeds, and quickly hit crouch to collapse the crosshair to a near pin-point shot, this means that without zooming in players can quickly and instantly engage targets with a rifle, even after having ran or sprint a long distance. I would like to see the subtraction rate on the move deviation decreased, so that when players crouch or stop, they have to, if I will go so boldly, "catch their breath" to lay down accurate fire. This would prevent people from running into open areas, knowing them can quickly crouch to engage targets, and instead would encourage them to move from cover to cover instead, knowing that as they stop, they wont be able to lay down fire immediately. In addition the lowered subtraction rate on the rifles would allow iron sights to take more precedence over unzoomed fire. Players would find that zooming in would give them a better chance of hitting their targets quickly, but for that accuracy they sacrifice their movement speed, and thus players will get behind cover and utilize their iron sights before just randomly pulling the trigger.

I'd rather have the crosshairs removed... much simpler... with nearly the same result...

And id agree with you, if there wasn't a hundred people who everytime you mention removing cross hairs, use the excuses such as:

"There is a natural sense of where your aiming in real life, bla bla"

and

"There will be people taping things to there screens!"

I've had this debate a hundred times...always the same thing.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 14-04-2011, 23:04:48
I would like to see the subtraction rate on the move deviation decreased, so that when players crouch or stop, they have to, if I will go so boldly, "catch their breath" to lay down accurate fire. This would prevent people from running into open areas, knowing them can quickly crouch to engage targets, and instead would encourage them to move from cover to cover instead, knowing that as they stop, they wont be able to lay down fire immediately.

You summed it up nicely, but I disagree with the subtraction time. Running over open fields in FH2 is near suicide. Higher subtraction time results in attackers being even more disadvantaged then they already are. On PHL for example, if you manage to spot a camper 150m away, crouch, aim in, and hit him, BEFORE he kills you, you deserve the kill.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Archimonday on 15-04-2011, 00:04:11
I would like to see the subtraction rate on the move deviation decreased, so that when players crouch or stop, they have to, if I will go so boldly, "catch their breath" to lay down accurate fire. This would prevent people from running into open areas, knowing them can quickly crouch to engage targets, and instead would encourage them to move from cover to cover instead, knowing that as they stop, they wont be able to lay down fire immediately.

You summed it up nicely, but I disagree with the subtraction time. Running over open fields in FH2 is near suicide. Higher subtraction time results in attackers being even more disadvantaged then they already are. On PHL for example, if you manage to spot a camper 150m away, crouch, aim in, and hit him, BEFORE he kills you, you deserve the kill.

Well sure you do, but why were you running at full sprint when you saw the defender instead of maneuvering with your team? If anything you should've seen that defender at 150 meters because he was part of his squad, and you part of yours, and the two squads became engaged in a long range firefight. Not simply because one player happened to spot a tiny black pixel on his screen that happened to be an enemy.

Making that choice to advance swiftly should be a calculated decision, not, as is now, a simplistic decision based on reenacting your favorite scene from a World War 2 movie where you dodge all the bullets and tracers and successfully take the flag all by yourself. People are currently not punished for their constant flooding of flags, people run towards a flag, die, spawn, and repeat the process.

FH2 is missing a sense of punishment for just blindly advancing yourself in a direction. Purple Heart Lane 32 is a perfect example of this, because the allied team has to cross an open field at the very beginning of the map, however players on that map will never think to throw smoke grenades, or to cover each other on the advance, they'll simply run across the field, die, and respawn to repeat the process, costing the allied team tickets.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: SiCaRiO on 21-04-2011, 01:04:10
There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho.
What would you change? We cannot add weapon sway like Red Orchestra have. The best we can do would be to increase the size of the cone of fire on the rifles, so that there's a degree of luck involved in hitting your target. Would that be a better option?

huge deviation when jumping  and slowly recover from that deviation should to the trick IMHO.

in FH42, after you jumped it took 2 seconds at least to gain full aim, in FH2 it just takes you half a second, just by rightclicking.

Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Galslacht on 22-04-2011, 20:04:59
There is no fun in unrealistic instagib-rifle-accuracy imho.
What would you change? We cannot add weapon sway like Red Orchestra have. The best we can do would be to increase the size of the cone of fire on the rifles, so that there's a degree of luck involved in hitting your target. Would that be a better option?

huge deviation when jumping  and slowly recover from that deviation should to the trick IMHO.

in FH42, after you jumped it took 2 seconds at least to gain full aim, in FH2 it just takes you half a second, just by rightclicking.


Yea, that might be a good solution on the road for more suspense and realism!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 17-05-2011, 18:05:23
Just for fun, here's the ironsights you all never got to see, from before 2.2.
Note on the StG44, the bolt is a seperated texture so that it would move when fired.
But then due to the amount of semi weapons, we found it looked much better with 3D ironsights and just went with those instead.
I don't think that greasegun sight was final, hole seems a bit small.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Gunnerz on 20-05-2011, 22:05:13
I dont know if this has been posted.

The bren needs more sway when walking and aiming down the sight.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: ajappat on 30-05-2011, 13:05:33
I dont know if this has been posted.

The bren needs more sway when walking and aiming down the sight.

What? Bren is way too inaccurate already!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Gunnerz on 02-06-2011, 11:06:38
I dont know if this has been posted.

The bren needs more sway when walking and aiming down the sight.

What? Bren is way too inaccurate already!

Yes but its a LMG, not an smg.
LMGs are very heavy and you shouldnt be able to aim very accurate while walking or standing.
The bren mkII weighs 10 kg.........
Besides i find that when using the bren deployed its pretty accurate.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Gunnerz on 02-06-2011, 11:06:07
Another thing is that you can aim most weapons while crawling, and that is not possible ofcourse.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Neighbor Kid on 02-06-2011, 19:06:15
what archi has posted on his youtube videos look alot better then whats currently ingame for weapon sway, camera shaking, and sprinting animations
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Josh094 on 02-06-2011, 21:06:21
Argh! Those 2d sights are so ugly next to the 3d counterparts!
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Ciupita on 03-06-2011, 23:06:55
bren was accurate when fired when walking.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: LuckyOne on 04-06-2011, 17:06:32
bren was accurate when fired when walking.

Indeed, it was designed with the idea of "walking fire" in mind...
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Gunnerz on 05-06-2011, 13:06:03
Yes its accurate, but still you will get sway during walking when aiming down the sight.
Unless you are fireing from the hip.

Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: General_Henry on 04-07-2011, 12:07:41
FH2 is missing a sense of punishment for just blindly advancing yourself in a direction. Purple Heart Lane 32 is a perfect example of this, because the allied team has to cross an open field at the very beginning of the map, however players on that map will never think to throw smoke grenades, or to cover each other on the advance, they'll simply run across the field, die, and respawn to repeat the process, costing the allied team tickets.

And when they throw smoke they blind their teammates instead of their enemies :(
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: VonMudra on 17-07-2011, 20:07:53
My two main points with 2.4:

The Colt 1917 sight has the same problem I've often seen in FH2 iron sights.  The top tip of the foresight should be lined up perfectly with the top of the rear sight, not hanging far above it.  Right now, IRL, you'd be shooting over the head of all your targets.


And same notation on the tripod mounted 1919, at least the couple I saw.  Oddly, the 1919A6 is perfect.
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: Kev4000 on 19-07-2011, 06:07:02
I was going to fix the m1919a4 tripod some time ago, can't remember why I didn't get around to it.

But not everyday I get the chance to prove VM wrong,
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/M1917rev.gif)
Title: Re: Weapon 3D ironsights/sway feedback
Post by: MaJ.P.Bouras on 19-07-2011, 07:07:39
I don't know where i should really post this but i think here should do...

When using a knife , after the attack is done the left hand just disappears when the animation is done.So its visible first then disappears at once and it seems just odd. Not too much of a problem though just could be a bit more well polished.