Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: Folkhoer on 06-09-2009, 12:09:58

Title: Panzerfaust
Post by: Folkhoer on 06-09-2009, 12:09:58
Well I tried to kill a tank 3 times with a panzerfaust but I always missed cause that thing only travels 10 metres or so =p.

Is there a tactic (specially for aiming) besides getting really close to a tank?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 06-09-2009, 13:09:27
Try to stand/lie still for a few seconds before shoting. Your aim increases greatly.

And the close range is intended. It´s Panzerfaust 30 (that means range of 30m).
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Die Happy on 06-09-2009, 13:09:29
indeed the range is really short you need to get close.
ALLWAYS use the sights or the projectile will hit anywhere but the target.
if you need to hit on some longer range aim above the target and you will get a few more meters in range. but still it is a short range weapon dont expect miracles.

practice and experince will help you in time.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 06-09-2009, 13:09:45
But dont get too close either. Yesterday I saw so many times someone take out a tank with a handheld AT-weapon and killing themselfs while at it.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Natty on 06-09-2009, 14:09:02
lobbing is the key  ;D
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Sir Apple on 06-09-2009, 14:09:51
Hmm..

I got a tank kill on my first try. I found that if I'm 15 or so meters away and my sight is touching the top of the tanks turret then it hits dead on.

I may have been closer then 15 meters, I dunno - I don't use meters so I'd say I was about 20 feet away.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Aggroman on 06-09-2009, 16:09:32
I'm pro at fausting tanks. ;D

Run up straight to the tank's side armor (don't try to hit it's front, the driver will see you and you get killed), aim at it with the ironsights, but aim always high! Shoot, and the tank is gone.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Rataxes on 06-09-2009, 19:09:23
By best tip would be: Aim higher
When you think you are right, a bit more.
I's almost impossible to overshoot with it.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Torenico on 06-09-2009, 21:09:12
Yet i would love to see a Volkssturm Player model whit 3 Panzerfuasts...

Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Fuchs on 06-09-2009, 22:09:23
Basic thing is you don't use the aiming holes at a 20/30 metres distance, you just aim really high. If you find this hard/annoying, get really close up the tank, like 3/4/5 metres and then aim and fire. Always stay in bushes when possible and stay behind tanks.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Eat Uranium on 06-09-2009, 22:09:32
Get as close as you dare to the tank, then go another 1m closer.  Bring up the sights, aim at the top of the turret and fire.  The tank should die a painful death.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 07-09-2009, 05:09:47
I'm sorta interested as to why the Pzfaust knocks out the sherman with one hit to the side, but the schreck seems to take two, even though both should be one hit kills wherever it hits on any allied tank ingame, churchill included=/
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kelmola on 07-09-2009, 08:09:01
In my experience, it takes more often than not at least 2 sideshots with the Faust to take out a Sherman. I have to admit I was very surprised to realize this. Especially since the AT kit has only one Faust, so firing one just sets Sherman on fire (if even that), and then he promptly mows you down with MG or HE and keeps going.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 07-09-2009, 09:09:59
Especially considering in FH1, it was always one shot for both Pzfaust and schreck to side and rear, and two to front, which is fine imo....
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knoffhoff on 07-09-2009, 23:09:39
A Panzerfaust and a Panzerschreck in most cases will take out a Sherman from the side with one shot. But there has has been added a thing called "applique armor" to some shermans to protect the ammuniton storage. When using the at weapons you should avoid those spots with extra armor. ;)
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 07-09-2009, 23:09:45
Its just pure bollocks that a sherman survives a faust or shreck to sides or back. But even M10 or Achilles surviving a faust to the rear? What the hell??

I can swallow the idea that a sherman only catches fire from faust to the front but sides and back? That is something I dont like. One of the only things in 2.2 that I dont like.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 08-09-2009, 00:09:06
Yeah, its currently BS....

ANd btw, the extra armour still does not stop the 200mm+ penetration of a faust or schreck, Knoffhoff.

I'm for one hit to side or rear chassis and turret unless you hit sandbags, and 2 hits to front, same deal, for BOTH schreck and faust.  Remember, these things were around 3 times as powerful as a bazooka....
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kelmola on 08-09-2009, 09:09:55
Yesterday night, I spent a long crawling in a ditch. Managed to get to the rear of an Achilles without the driver noticing. I bring up the Faust, aim for the exposed rear with no "applique armour" whatsoever visible. Boom. I can see flames, but the thing is still operational and reverses in panic. Fortunately, the noob driver only retreats a few meters before he bails out to make repairs so I headshot him with K98. I begin the long trek back to friendly lines -- only to be shot in the back by another Tommy who has appropriated the abandoned vehicle.

Now, I could grudgingly accept that a hit to the rear of a Churchill (like yesterday) does not even set it on fire, but Ronson really should "light up the first time, every time", not to mention lighter vehicles.

Plus the "applique armour" for Sherman's ammo compartment was only useful if it prevented penetration; considering almost anything in the German inventory in 1944 penetrated the side armour of Sherman the effectiveness of it was questionable and it certainly was not over 200 mm thick. For crying out loud, that would be more than Tiger II's front armour! Relocating the ammo and surrounding it with water ("wet" stowage) was a much more efficient way reduce the tendency to catch fire, increasing crew survivability in the case of a penetration to the ammo compartment. But it still did not stop penetrating hits.

And regarding the "usefulness" (or lack thereof) of the infamous sandbags...
Quote from: Wikipedia
In the only study known to have been done to test the use of sandbags, on March 9, 1945, officers of the 1st Armored Group tested standard Panzerfaust 60s against sandbagged M4s; shots against the side blew away the sandbags and still penetrated the side armor, whereas shots fired at an angle against the front plate blew away some of the sandbags but failed to penetrate the armor.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knoffhoff on 08-09-2009, 11:09:30
Seems like some things need to be explained here. First thing you need to consider is that this is a game and in a game you need to take care that certain weapons don't destroy the fun. With the Panzerfaust you can kill any Tank ingame even when shooting at the mighty Tiger II's front armour, since like von Mudra says it is able to penetrate 200mm of armor. But in FH2 penetration shouldn't be confused with kill. How much fun is it for allied and german tankers when Panzerfausts, Bazookas, Piats, And Panzerschrecks 1s1k any tank that they are able to penetrate the armor? AT soldiers being able to hide almost anywhere because of the dense vegetation will give tanks no chance to survive.
All the AT weapons can penetrate the amount of armor they were able to do in real life. But the damage they do is depending on how big the difference is between the amount of armor they can penetrate and the armor they are actually penetrating. The bigger the difference the bigger the damage.
Atm the Panzerfaust is strong enough to instant kill any allied tank when hitting sides or rear except the churchill. Shermans will survive a shot to the front armor or on some versions parts of the side armor that have extra armor plates, tank tracks applied that enable them to survive a Panzerfaust hit. But you should keep in mind that they will loose almost all hitpoints and if they were just slightly damaged earlier it will be a certain kill. To 1s1k a Churchill it actually needs a little more effort. Find a good elevated spot and try to hit it from top. You will see it instantly go boom.


Achilles and M10 being reported shows me you are not using the weapons right.
You have to aim those weapons over the sights. Bazooka and Piat even have very useful sights coming handy for firing on different ranges.
Don't try to hit that tank that is on the other side of the map just because you are so skilled to use other things in your 1p view for aiming instead of the sights.
In real life all those weapons had a limited range. Unfortunatly you can't properly code the projectiles to drop after a certain range. Instead you can only affect the curve they fly. Using that to restrict the range of the At weapons leads to awkward ballistics. To restrict the range of those weapons without destroying the ballistic curve I had to do a little bit dirty coding (much less dirty as the messed up curves though). You are still able to shoot those weapons way to far. You can see the projectiles fly, but they will not do any damage to armor at ranges you are not able to hit aiming over your sights.
Use the sight and you will be alright.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ionizer on 08-09-2009, 11:09:55
The only time so far that my 'faust hasn't killed a Sherman in one shot is when I accidentally hit the gun mantle.  It caught fire and the enemy bailed, but the Sherman didn't die right away.  I have one shotted a Sherman from the front with the 'faust at least once, though.

The PIAT on the other hand, takes me an average of 3 shots to the side (not hitting skirts) or rear to kill a Panther.  I can knock out a PzIVH with one shot to the side (again, the small parts not covered by skirts) or rear with the PIAT, but I haven't knocked one out from the front yet.  StUG is the same story as the PzIVH, one shot side or rear, more than three to the front (not actually having been able to kill it with front shots yet either).

So far, the Panzershrek has killed everything in one shot, and I haven't played with the Bazooka enough to notice how many shots it needs (other than one shot to the rear of StUG, PzIVH and one shot anywhere on Hanomags).

Speaking of Hanomags, sometimes when I fire a PIAT at it, it looks like it should hit dead on, but the projectile actually explodes underneath the halftrack, and makes it jump a couple feet in the air, but doesn't seem to actually damage it.  Weird...  I've mostly experienced it on Falaise Pocket, usually aiming at the halftrack with the second or third hole in the ironsights (the medium and longer distance shots).  It has happened with the first hole (close range), as well though.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kelmola on 08-09-2009, 12:09:04
Concerning aiming, what has range do with penetration, as far as HEAT warheads are concerned? In any case, I'm not talking about "near misses" or something that "should have been a hit", only hits that I can see striking the target's armour dead on. The Achilles in my previous example was so close that I got the suppression and a flash of red, less than 5 meters away. And even so, I did use the sights just to be sure.

Like I said, I can understand and accept that a heavy tank like Churchill will keep going after a single penetrating hit (much like the Matilda/Valentine occasionally survives the satchel charge on engine deck). Having a thinly armoured tank destroyer, or a medium tank that was known to catch fire easily, to withstand Faust hits to the rear is what provoked me to complain.

As far as "hitting power left after penetration" is concerned, the Faust and Schreck were clearly superior to the Bazooka and PIAT (in addition to having twice the penetration power), so direct comparison between them is not really appropriate. With a Bazooka or PIAT I don't even expect a 1s1k, they usually didn't do that IRL, unlike their German counterparts. Plus, you only get one Faust in the kit, whereas all the others get reloads.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knoffhoff on 08-09-2009, 12:09:36
Concerning aiming, what has range do with penetration, as far as HEAT warheads are concerned?
I was talking about dirty coding. Of course on a heat projectile the damage power doesn't decrease penetration power in real life. But certainly those weapos have a maximum range you can fire them in real life. For the Panzerfaust 30m the maximum range would be somehwere around 50m. Ingame though you are pretty much able to shoot as far as you want when you aim high enough. Especially with bazooka, panzerschreck and piat which have projectiles that travel much straighter as the Panzerfaust ones do. Removing the ability  to damage on in big distances is the dirty trick to limit the range those weapons are useful. It is not very nice solution but as long there is no other proper way to restrict the range you can actually fire the projectiles this is the best thing to do.

Quote
The Achilles in my previous example was so close that I got the suppression and a flash of red, less than 5 meters away. And even so, I did use the sights just to be sure.

I'd really like to see a video of that action. I can't recreate it ingame. I checked the collision mesh of the Achilles, even though it has slightly to high armor applied on the back of the turret there is no chance for that tank to survive a Panzerfaust hit, nowhere.


Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 08-09-2009, 12:09:08
Always so difficult knoffi...

Is it fun for a stalking german infantry man to get only one chance to blow the tank away and even thought he is an experienced tank hunter and knows the ropes, makes a perfect shot and the tank only lights up in fire? Not much fun there!

And Kelmola just said it did survive. So what? You think he is talking bullshit??
I've reported these things so many times but always they play the "hitbox" or "you didnt do it right" cards.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knoffhoff on 08-09-2009, 13:09:19
I'm testing it ingame and I'm doing the math and the result is always the same. Achilles doesn't survive a panzerfaust shot. Might really be that you and he are talking bullshit. Or maybe I'm just to stupid.
Anyways, you want me to do more about it? Then show what you do and maybe I can clarify what the issue is.

You think you are a experienced tank hunter? I think you need more practice. ;)
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: DLFReporter on 08-09-2009, 13:09:05
I'm with knoffi here.
Piat and Fausts are awesome weapons atm and nerfing them would really upset things.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 08-09-2009, 18:09:50
How can you be with knoffi, we're the ones who don't want them nerfed....


As I said, knoff, I'm all for shermans and all tanks taking the 2 shots to the front, and heavy tanks 2 shots all around, but shermans should be a one shot on side, rear, and back armour, not matter if it hits the stupid applied armor that did nothing to prevent a HEAT shell from ripping it apart, and taking it to almost dead if you hit tracks or sand bags.  I'm sorry, but you're making things easier for tankers at the expense of the ability of Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck gunners to actually make a kill.  They honestly get only ONE shot, faust all the time, and schreck most of the time, and if they hit and the tank doesn't die for some unrealistic reason, then all their incredibly difficult work is moot.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Fuchs on 08-09-2009, 18:09:48
If I can't take it out with 1 shot, then atleast give me 2 Fausts so I can give it another shot.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knoffhoff on 08-09-2009, 20:09:59
How can you be with knoffi, we're the ones who don't want them nerfed....


As I said, knoff, I'm all for shermans and all tanks taking the 2 shots to the front, and heavy tanks 2 shots all around, but shermans should be a one shot on side, rear, and back armour, not matter if it hits the stupid applied armor that did nothing to prevent a HEAT shell from ripping it apart, and taking it to almost dead if you hit tracks or sand bags.  I'm sorry, but you're making things easier for tankers at the expense of the ability of Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck gunners to actually make a kill.  They honestly get only ONE shot, faust all the time, and schreck most of the time, and if they hit and the tank doesn't die for some unrealistic reason, then all their incredibly difficult work is moot.

Yes I already red that you like the idea that shermans take 2 shots to the front. But as I explained earlier the damage is being dependent on the armor you hit. And the fact is that those reinforced spots on the side in reality and in the game more or less have the same armor thickness as the front of the tank has. Therefor it needs the same amount of hits if you hit those spots and if you are consequently following a system how armor penetration and damage works this is the only right thing that should happen. You think it is that hard to just aim a little lower to the tracks, or a bit left to weaker armor or go behind the tank and it it there? You are using the most powerful and one of the most easy to use hand weapons that is ingame and I don't think it is asked to much to take a second and think before you shoot.

Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 08-09-2009, 20:09:32
And in combat, when the tank is probably moving, and you have people shooting at you, you tend to just point at the general hulk of the tank and fire.  You don't HAVE a second.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Lobo on 08-09-2009, 21:09:32
If I can't take it out with 1 shot, then atleast give me 2 Fausts so I can give it another shot.

And maybe a free visit to the Paris red light district?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 09-09-2009, 01:09:07
I sure hope you got the Sherman V armour correct ...

today in a Sherman V I survived :

* a direct hit from a panther approx 20 m away on my front armour. renounced, no damage at all . Panter goes BOOM

* then a stug showed up. again my front armour was hit. again renounced. 0 damage. Stug goes BOOM.

* Then a stug again . hitted me in the side / tracks. finally dead.

Really, obviously I should have died the first time.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ionizer on 09-09-2009, 01:09:18
I sure hope you got the Sherman V armour correct ...

today in a Sherman V I survived :

* a direct hit from a panther approx 20 m away on my front armour. renounced, no damage at all . Panter goes BOOM

* then a stug showed up. again my front armour was hit. again renounced. 0 damage. Stug goes BOOM.

* Then a stug again . hitted me in the side / tracks. finally dead.

Really, obviously I should have died the first time.

Maybe newbies are firing HE shells at tanks?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: kettcar on 09-09-2009, 08:09:24
or kettcar is laming Infanterie and can not change the shells fast enough  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 09-09-2009, 08:09:06
Quote
Maybe newbies are firing HE shells at tanks?

HE shells don't bounce off, they explode
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: DLFReporter on 09-09-2009, 09:09:56
Quote
Maybe newbies are firing HE shells at tanks?
HE shells don't bounce off, they explode

Not quite true. They sometimes bounce off as well.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ionizer on 09-09-2009, 12:09:10
While playing tonight, I've had two things happen to me pertaining to this thread:

First, a side hit on a Sherman with a Faust didn't kill, but set it on fire.  I'm pretty sure I hit the extra armor (in the form of tank treads slapped onto the side of the hull), so that may be the answer to this conundrum.  And I accept that.

Second, and far more disturbing, I fired a PanzerShrek at an enemy Sherman it did not die instantly.  I fired it at the front, and it set it on fire, but the tank didn't die.  I may have (in fact, remembering now, I think I did) hit the gun mantle, but should it matter?  I thought the Shrek was supposed to be so overly powerful it could slice through any armor on any Sherman with one shot, no matter where it hit?  This is compounded by the fact that this happened on Lebisey, where Shreks are solely pick up kits, and, by conventional wisdom, should be stronger than the spawn-able Fausts...

Whoa, that came out alot angrier than I intended.  I don't mean to offend anyone, but I really and truly thought that the Shrek could kill a Sherman from any angle, no matter what.  Sorry for sounding meaner than I intended...
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Die Happy on 09-09-2009, 12:09:08
that the faust dosent kill a sherman from front was intruduced late before the RC. but it was the same in FH 0.7 so it made "sense".

however i agree on the sometimes very wimpy panzerschreck performance. it should kill a sherman with 1 shot no matter what (unless you hit the version with the sandbags on the sandbags).
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 09-09-2009, 12:09:58
however i agree on the sometimes very wimpy panzerschreck performance. it should kill a sherman with 1 shot no matter what (unless you hit the version with the sandbags on the sandbags).

Certainly agreed.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Eat Uranium on 09-09-2009, 13:09:15
I was under the impression that the faust and shreck both had the same penetration and that the shrecks advantage was range and reloadability.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Die Happy on 09-09-2009, 16:09:26
the max. penetration of the panzerschreck should be better that on the faust, not much but enough to "feel" the difference.
but EU is right the main advantage is the increased range and more ammo.

however keep in mind the new and overhauled tank/gun/armor penetration-system in 2.2.
explaining this on teamspeak with voice took a dev 30 minutes (not a native english speaker so you might get it a bit faster but still you get an idea how complex this is).

it takes in account:
- the gun (diameter of the rounds, type of round, max penetration of the round, the speed of the round)
- the armor of the target
- distance to the target

then it calculates, in a quite complex way how much damage a round will do to a tank. depending on if armor penetration occurred, how big the difference between max armor penetration of the round and the actual armor penetrated is. etc etc. this then gets assigned multipliers that get multiplied by the base damage of that round (mostly depending on diameter).

and those are just the cliff-notes.

all those values have been selected from historical sources and now, ingame give a good representation (although somewhat tweaked) on how these values would feel in real.

however keep in mind that in REAL a penetrated armor could kill crew, ignite engine, or ammo or maybe do no damage at all. since this cant be simulated in this engine their are some discrepancies between what we can do and what not.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: MK on 09-09-2009, 16:09:37
Another issue...anyone noticed that AT weapons does splash damage,this is accurate?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Eat Uranium on 09-09-2009, 16:09:04
Another issue...anyone noticed that AT weapons does splash damage,this is accurate?
Well, it is an explosive warhead.  Not as powerful as a dedicated HE shell, but still is quite deadly.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: verg_6 on 09-09-2009, 17:09:55
I'm all for 'fun' and whatnot, and do agree that too much realism can take any and all entertainment out of a game (like, for me anyways, the Operation Flashpoint games). However, it is complete bullcrap to be equipped with only one, solitary short-ranged (and I mean SHORT) AT weapon that was historically renowned for its killing capability and not have the ability to dispose of even a meager Sherman with a direct hit to the rear. That is just wrong. The fact that an infantryman has to show balls of steel to get so damned close to his target to hit it alone warrants a 1HK.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Eat Uranium on 09-09-2009, 18:09:05
I just played around with the faust on a local server and found the following:
Cromwells allways die in one shot nomatter where they get hit.
Shermans are 1 hit kills as long as you don't hit the front, the extra side plates, the tank tracks.
I found that I could hit a sherman but not 1 hit it from behind if the warhead hit bags resting on the engine deck.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 09-09-2009, 18:09:44
Panzerschreck had 210mm penetration, Panzerfaust at 200mm penetration.  So yes, teh schreck is slightly better...but both can rip through any tank in combat in WW2 with ease.  Also, remember that unlike an AP shell, the HEAT shell is firing a plasma torch through the armour, then when it enters the inside of the tank, the flame expands outwards, engulfing the entire inside of the tank in flames and incinerating the crew.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knoffhoff on 09-09-2009, 22:09:29
Penetration power of those weapons is arguable to say the least.
Check out the references below and scratch your head.  :o

http://www.upbeat.de/German_AT.html (http://www.upbeat.de/German_AT.html)
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: sn00x on 09-09-2009, 22:09:47
it is a bit unfair that the german team only get one Pf :/
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Meadow on 09-09-2009, 23:09:07
Indeed. In FH1 this was balanced out by the Faust being a deadly one-hit killer on pretty much any enemy vehicle. And, of course, the anti tank man having a rifle as well. But a rifle isn't much good when there's tanks outside the spawn...
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 09-09-2009, 23:09:20
But now you have something like a allround-kit with that k98 and PzFaust. Thats in my opinion a big advantage to the Piat or Bazooka-kits.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Meadow on 09-09-2009, 23:09:52
But now you have something like a allround-kit with that k98 and PzFaust. Thats in my opinion a big advantage to the Piat or Bazooka-kits.

Well, in FH1 it was a good all-round kit. The non-one-hit wonder abilities of the Panzerfaust have changed that in FH2.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: DLFReporter on 10-09-2009, 07:09:11
But that is a personal feeling Meadow, I do believe that while the Pf is a spawnable class it could lead to a unbalance for allied tankers with all the hidingplaces on our maps.

I always attribute it to being unlucky when my Pf won't kill a tank. But the second always gets him so no grief done. :)
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kubador on 10-09-2009, 11:09:02
I can live with the faust having a 'bad hit' but the shrek should anahilate every allied armour in game, period. When I'm using fausts I know I have only one chance and I try to use it best as I can and if anything goes wrong (1 time on 50 maybe) I can always conceal myself as the tanker didn't see wher it came from. In case of a shrek if you don't kill a tank in a first shot you're probably dead meat if he's not a noob tanker.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Slayer on 10-09-2009, 23:09:26
Up to now I have only hit a tank with the faust twice to see it not die. All other times (numerous, can't count them) the tank died after one hit. So maybe I'm just very lucky, or the problem is not that big as it is portrayed in this thread.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Thorondor123 on 11-09-2009, 00:09:28
Every time I have used the RPzB 54 it have been one shot, one kill. Maybe I'm lucky.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ts4EVER on 11-09-2009, 03:09:31
I used the Schreck once, and killed two Shermans, each with one hit.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kelmola on 12-09-2009, 15:09:27
Until now, Schreck has been 1s1k for me. However, yesterday night (on Lüttich), I shoot and hit a Sherman's rear turret. I see flames, but the tank is still alive. >:(

How much randomness is there in the "killpower after penetration" calculation, if any? Or did I just happen to hit some invisible toolbox that deflected the explosive jet of the HEAT grenade? (As for the effectiveness of the sandbags against Faust or Schreck, they were proven to be effective only when augmenting the front armour; on the sides, rear or deck, their stopping power was not enough.)
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 12-09-2009, 16:09:50
Well, that happend to me either. But you have to remember that the turret is one of the best armored part of the tank.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: VonMudra on 12-09-2009, 18:09:25
Only in the front of the turret, side and rear were much weaker.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kev4000 on 13-09-2009, 02:09:31
There's too many real life variables to account for. Thus, it must be downpowered for both gameplay reasons, and to account for those variables. For example, even if you hit the armour at a 10 degree angle (90 degree being straight on) it'll do full damage.

Also, the ranges ingame are scaled down slightly. The SIGHTS on the piat and bazooka are made to hit around 60m, this is on flat terrain. For the panzerfaust, its made to hit at 23 meters. Aiming below the sights will make you capable of hitting further targets.

However, I do not quite like how they do less damage after exceeding maximum range, even for gameplay reasons. The maximum range in real life didn't mean it couldn't hit targets beyond that, just that the chance of hitting targets beyond that is less than 50%. The piat for example was also issued with mortar sights for ranges beyond 300 yards.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Archimonday on 13-09-2009, 04:09:01
The only thing I'm mad about is how slow the shells move. For christ sake a Bazooka or Panzershreck shell doesn't travel at 30 and 40 meters a second. We are talking about rocket propelled anti-tank shells/grenades/whatever you want to call them. They fly much faster and farther in real life, and if you really want to keep the current ranges, add some gravity modifiers to them.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Aggroman on 13-09-2009, 10:09:02
The Panzerfaust is fine as it is now.
It is still an ubergun, for example try to kill a tank with a Piat, it takes much longer than with a nice Faust. You have a rifle and a Panzerfaust, both good weapons compared to that shitty pistols that the canucks, brits or americans get.
Be happy with the Faust, and fear the power of it. ;D
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Fuchs on 13-09-2009, 18:09:26
Don't underestimate the Browning Hi-Power. I had such a killing spree with it on Totalize. At the windmill flag, PIAT on panzers, Hi-Power on infantry. Nomnomnom.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Aggroman on 13-09-2009, 18:09:53
The Hi-Power really is a good gun, it should be used for more kits than just the AT one.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Torenico on 13-09-2009, 23:09:16
The Hi-Power really is a good gun, it should be used for more kits than just the AT one.

For what? for more uberkilling?  ;D
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Fuchs on 14-09-2009, 09:09:57
The Hi-Power really is a good gun, it should be used for more kits than just the AT one.

For what? for more uberkilling?  ;D
Yes please  :D I would easily swap it for a rifle.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Die Happy on 14-09-2009, 12:09:48
well the HI-PO was used in all armies, axis and allied. i suggested to add it to all heavy AT kits (schreck, piat, bazooka) but you see the turnout :/
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kelmola on 14-09-2009, 14:09:53
The Hi-Power is great. It is quite accurate on a longer range than you might expect, has easy-to-use sights, and two good shots will drop an enemy. Almost reason enough to play as an Allied anti-tanker ;D
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ionizer on 14-09-2009, 15:09:18
The Hi-Power is great. It is quite accurate on a longer range than you might expect, has easy-to-use sights, and two good shots will drop an enemy. Almost reason enough to play as an Allied anti-tanker ;D

^Canadian Anti Tank Soldier.  British PIAT dudes get a Webley, and American Zook soldiers get the Colt 1911.  Only the Canadians get the Browning Hi-Power.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Rustysteel on 14-09-2009, 19:09:24
Interesting thread, in my experience I've not had the major problems with the faust as other people seem to be having. I can only recall once when my faust didn't kill a sherman and that was because I hit it in the front. Everyshot I've taken that's been a solid strike at the side or rear has always killed the tank. Maybe the front shot not being a one hit kill is debatable but I'm having no trouble with the sides or rear. Think I might try to take some screenshots of infantry tank kills next time I play incase this happens.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kev4000 on 18-09-2009, 08:09:02
The Hi-Power is great. It is quite accurate on a longer range than you might expect, has easy-to-use sights, and two good shots will drop an enemy. Almost reason enough to play as an Allied anti-tanker ;D

Nope. Like all our other 9mm guns, it'll take 3 shots to the body. Potentially 4 if you hit the arm or leg. Of course, a headshot will still kill. Headshots are rare though, this isn't CS where the projectiles are melon sized.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Potilas on 18-09-2009, 09:09:12
Headshots are rare though, this isn't CS where the projectiles are melon sized.

A small correction. It´s cod series where bullets are mealon sized.

Just curious. Does limbs provide protection agains killing shot when rifle bullet hits arm before it could reach chest. Will it penetrate, thats the question.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: NoCoolOnesLeft on 18-09-2009, 09:09:38
The Hi-Power is great. It is quite accurate on a longer range than you might expect, has easy-to-use sights, and two good shots will drop an enemy. Almost reason enough to play as an Allied anti-tanker ;D

Nope. Like all our other 9mm guns, it'll take 3 shots to the body. Potentially 4 if you hit the arm or leg. Of course, a headshot will still kill. Headshots are rare though, this isn't CS where the projectiles are melon sized.

What about the M1911A1 and the Webley? They're .45 and .445 respectively aren't they?

From experience the amount of shots it takes to drop someone with them is all based on luck.

Sometimes it's one, sometimes it as much as three.

Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Kev4000 on 18-09-2009, 19:09:26
Headshots are rare though, this isn't CS where the projectiles are melon sized.

A small correction. It´s cod series where bullets are mealon sized.

Just curious. Does limbs provide protection agains killing shot when rifle bullet hits arm before it could reach chest. Will it penetrate, thats the question.

In real life, of course. Not in BF2 though. However, only below the knee and the arms are considered limbs in BF2. 75% of all shots, atleast, thus hit the body in BF2. You know you get a limb shot with a rifle in FH2 when you don't drop someone from a rifle shot, which happens maybe 1/10 times.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: verg_6 on 19-09-2009, 17:09:02
I'm also curious about the damage specs of the 1911.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 17-07-2011, 15:07:32
Gonna bump this thread

Regarding the new PZFaust 60 and 100, the aiming sights has now 30-60-100 meters.

These aiming sights GREATLY helps you in aiming with it.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ahonen on 17-07-2011, 15:07:22
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9614/screen007a.jpg)



'dem new Fausts are just awesome.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 17-07-2011, 15:07:23
Fausttillery beeches!
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ts4EVER on 17-07-2011, 15:07:24
Did anyone get a kill with the faust 100 yet?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Slayer on 17-07-2011, 16:07:05
Did anyone get a kill with the faust 100 yet?
I saw someone else kill with it yesterday.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 17-07-2011, 17:07:18
Did anyone get a kill with the faust 100 yet?
Yep me.  Its very nice
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Hjaldrgud on 18-07-2011, 00:07:11
WUT?
There are Fast 100 m? WHERE? WHICH MAP?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-07-2011, 00:07:28
WUT?
There are Fast 100 m? WHERE? WHICH MAP?
pickupkits
bastogne and meuse
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-07-2011, 11:07:14
If you want to practise with the Faust 60/100. I advise you make a local server

Take the map meuse river, and go to german mainbase. Place Panthers and KT on various distances. Grab a hangomag for resupply, and start practising! The panthers and KT can take a hit or 2 -3. If you want a faust 100. it is in the mainbase somewhere.

Same can be done with the allies for Bazooka training M9. Grab the sherman jumbo's and M4A3. And a halftrack, and the same as above.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: kaminikaze on 22-04-2012, 16:04:33
If you want to practise with the Faust 60/100. I advise you make a local server

Take the map meuse river, and go to german mainbase. Place Panthers and KT on various distances. Grab a hangomag for resupply, and start practising! The panthers and KT can take a hit or 2 -3. If you want a faust 100. it is in the mainbase somewhere.


Did this.

Also made myself squadleader and put attack markers on the tanks I wanted to destroy.
That way, I could exactly see at which distance I was standing with my faust.

what I found out : the sights don't line up with the distance. Why is this?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ts4EVER on 22-04-2012, 16:04:19
Distance is halved ingame.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: SnakeTheFox on 30-04-2012, 04:04:16
But dont get too close either. Yesterday I saw so many times someone take out a tank with a handheld AT-weapon and killing themselfs while at it.

In at least my case, this is intentional. In protest to how the recent introduction of anglemod has made Panzerfausts frequently not disable Shermans with a side/rear shot if there's even a slight angle, I've opted to use my 'faust as a lunge mine, sticking it right up the rear end of any ballsy Sherman.

Distance is halved ingame.

You mean the effective range of the weapons is decreased, or Battlefields "23m" or such attack markers are halved?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Ts4EVER on 30-04-2012, 13:04:53
Effective range.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: SnakeTheFox on 01-05-2012, 08:05:58
Ehh, I can understand that perhaps on rifles and tank guns, but the faust (at least the 30m model) is already so limited in potential I think it's unnecessary to apply this rule to it, lest you apply it to equally short ranged weapons like hand-thrown grenades as well. Plus I now know I can chock up my many misses with the faust to that, considering I always aim for a tank that's 30m away and seem to undershoot it every time; and I'm sure a large portion of the community makes that same mistake. But that's just the opinion of one lowly user, I guess.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 01-05-2012, 18:05:44
Ehh, I can understand that perhaps on rifles and tank guns, but the faust (at least the 30m model) is already so limited in potential I think it's unnecessary to apply this rule to it, lest you apply it to equally short ranged weapons like hand-thrown grenades as well. Plus I now know I can chock up my many misses with the faust to that, considering I always aim for a tank that's 30m away and seem to undershoot it every time; and I'm sure a large portion of the community makes that same mistake. But that's just the opinion of one lowly user, I guess.
Yes it is your opinion. And one shared by others and one wich has been rejected in the past for a reason.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: kaminikaze on 01-05-2012, 20:05:50
Then why don't they just adjust the markings on the sights? Panzerfaust 30 = 30 metres marked on sight, eventhough the sight is calibrated at only 15 m. Why not put '15m' on it ? For realism's sake ?

I assume the same rules apply for PIAT ?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: ajappat on 01-05-2012, 21:05:55
Well, actually panzerfaust 30 doesn't have "30" on it  :P.

I honestly don't see it being big sin to put "ingame distance" numbers on panzerfuasts 60 and 100 and PIAT. The numbers are in wrong order anyway atm.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 01-05-2012, 23:05:14
Then why don't they just adjust the markings on the sights? Panzerfaust 30 = 30 metres marked on sight, eventhough the sight is calibrated at only 15 m. Why not put '15m' on it ? For realism's sake ?

I assume the same rules apply for PIAT ?
correct
aswel as zooka and shreck. they all have shorter effective range
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: GIJordncc1701d on 02-05-2012, 00:05:15
The best things I've found to do is either lay in some sort of trench or depression until the tank gets close, or find a way to fire from above (therefore increasing range).
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: im_a_lazy_sod on 03-05-2012, 06:05:25
Just get as close as you can without being too close so you blow yourself up - you have the run the same risks taking out a tank as you do a 3kg, but with the 3kg you have to go up to the tank, place the 3kg and run like hell in the hope the bastard doesn't turn his turrnet

Give me a shrek or a zook any day of the week for open compat, but urban compat - faust. hands down. so much winning.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: SnakeTheFox on 04-05-2012, 01:05:55
Yes it is your opinion. And one shared by others and one wich has been rejected in the past for a reason.

That reason being what, exactly? I mean you can't just lay out "for a reason" without, you know, having one to give.

Only reason I can see is that it's a paltry amount of work that maybe the devs don't feel like squeezing into their schedules. But balance-wise I can't think of one solitary good reason why not to give it a go. Maybe not a straight 1:1 range, but something at least outside hand grenade range, say 20-25m or so.

The faust currently has a range that's identical to that of a hand-thrown grenade, yet has all the drawbacks of a zook/shrek in that you have to remain still and aim to avoid killing yourself. I'd honestly much rather have an RPG-43 or something, not even joking. That isn't generally something a user should be saying of a recoilless anti-tank system.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Berkolok on 14-05-2012, 15:05:05
in fh2 faust are like stones:(
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 14-05-2012, 18:05:54
Yes it is your opinion. And one shared by others and one wich has been rejected in the past for a reason.

That reason being what, exactly? I mean you can't just lay out "for a reason" without, you know, having one to give.

Only reason I can see is that it's a paltry amount of work that maybe the devs don't feel like squeezing into their schedules. But balance-wise I can't think of one solitary good reason why not to give it a go. Maybe not a straight 1:1 range, but something at least outside hand grenade range, say 20-25m or so.

The faust currently has a range that's identical to that of a hand-thrown grenade, yet has all the drawbacks of a zook/shrek in that you have to remain still and aim to avoid killing yourself. I'd honestly much rather have an RPG-43 or something, not even joking. That isn't generally something a user should be saying of a recoilless anti-tank system.
First of all, the panzerfaust was almost always issued 1 per infantry soldier.

Second, the german anti-tank soldier kit is already the most versatile in the game. Because you still have a rifle. a PIAT/Bazooka/shreck gunner has very low anti-infantry capability in lets say, a squad. While the german kit allows you to have almost simular anti-infantry capability then other soldiers

Third, the faust is the most deadly of all anti-tank kits. The PIAT and zooka always need more then 1 round to kill a tank, and they often have to get to the Rear of panzers because of schurzen.
Now dont you landrots start to whine about the sherman(76) not being 1S1K on the mantlet...
Any allied tank from side=Dead
sometimes the shermans do indeed SURVIVE a shot frontally, but your health is pretty much red so anything else after that kills you

Fourth, the Faust is the second most silent anti-tank weapon in the game.

Fifth, the faust takes the least time to aim



Plenty of reasons imo. Wich where backed by many in the past also.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Tankbuster on 14-05-2012, 19:05:04
So to counter its high damage and low noise, incorrect sights are issued?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 14-05-2012, 20:05:17
So to counter its high damage and low noise, incorrect sights are issued?
All anti tank weapons have incorrect sights.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Tankbuster on 14-05-2012, 20:05:54
Atleast the zook goes straight (somewhat :P ), while with the PIAT the second shot can be connected if the first misses. cannot do either in faust
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 14-05-2012, 21:05:58
Atleast the zook goes straight (somewhat :P ), while with the PIAT the second shot can be connected if the first misses. cannot do either in faust
If you miss with a panzerfaust, you have not practised with it

All weapons require practise, aswel as the faust.

Go to Offline lan, go to a map with alot of panzers, spawn and take an ammo truck, and set tanks on varying distances and keep practising

It is how i did with the PIAT, and i could snipe INFANTRY with it. It almost got me banned from 762!
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Knochenlutscher on 15-05-2012, 10:05:33
I practiced with both 30/60/100 Panzerfausts, on Carentan Map I placed 3 kits with them for this purpose.
Knocking out with a 100er is no prob. I prefer the 60 or 100, for it's easy aiming sights.
Also because I'm more into distance fausting, or in 70% of the time I didn't waited in ambush.
When it doesn't work, it was me, mostly overshooting them.
The Schreck is not comfortable for me, decreasing view, in heat of battle Panzerfausts give me best results,
as they let you follow your surroundings, even in zoom-aim/view.

PIATs and Bazoos I never tried before.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: SnakeTheFox on 15-05-2012, 14:05:38
First of all, the panzerfaust was almost always issued 1 per infantry soldier.

Obviously. Don't see where I advocated adding more.

Quote
Second, the german anti-tank soldier kit is already the most versatile in the game. Because you still have a rifle. a PIAT/Bazooka/shreck gunner has very low anti-infantry capability in lets say, a squad. While the german kit allows you to have almost simular anti-infantry capability then other soldiers

Class versatility, while always useful to some extent, loses a lot of that strength in a game where you can respawn in 10 or so seconds. At least for me, if I'm spawning with an AT class it's because there's a tank that needs to be dead. Infantry targets are secondary.

Quote
Third, the faust is the most deadly of all anti-tank kits. The PIAT and zooka always need more then 1 round to kill a tank, and they often have to get to the Rear of panzers because of schurzen.
Now dont you landrots start to whine about the sherman(76) not being 1S1K on the mantlet...
Any allied tank from side=Dead
sometimes the shermans do indeed SURVIVE a shot frontally, but your health is pretty much red so anything else after that kills you

Maybe you could just chalk this up to anglemods still sketchy initial implementation, but I have had absolutely no shortage of non-KO'ing side/rear shots with the faust. Actually I'd say 50-75% of all Panzerfaust hits I land on the side armor of a Sherman result in "near death" fires but not an instant KO. And these are generally completely perpendicular shots with no notable angles either vertically or horizontally.

Quote
Fourth, the Faust is the second most silent anti-tank weapon in the game.

All the anti-tank infantry weapons in this game are pretty silent, honestly. And with the faust it's a moot strength considering you get one shot regardless and then it's back to being a rifleman.

Quote
Fifth, the faust takes the least time to aim

As if to imply "aiming" serves any purpose other than negating the "blind firing" penalties of rocket launchers in the mod when discussing a weapon with a nominal effective range of 15 meters; which, as we're discussing, leads players without forum-gleaned knowledge of the abstractions present in game limiting it from its quite prominently displayed "30 meter" sighted range.

Quote
Plenty of reasons imo. Wich where backed by many in the past also.

Well, I disagree. I'm not advocating turning it into the king of all AT weapons, but a modicum of range increasing is not out of the question for a weapon so notably lacking in it, if for nothing else than not punishing non-forum going or otherwise WW2 knowledgeable players from having to figure it out the hard and unnecessarily painful way.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Surfbird on 15-05-2012, 16:05:28
Biggest problem is indeed, that the anti tank class for German is strong enough already. I personally always risk Something when I spawn with a Bazooka or Piat, with panzerfaust I don't cuz I have a rifle and can deal with enemy infantry on long range, which is obviously impossible with the pistol.

I often use the Germnan anti tank kit to be a versatile soldier that is able to take out tanks that might get close to you and if not you can kill infantry with your rifle like every other class.

Giving the Panzerfaust more range would reslut in an even stronger infantry based anti tank force, whilst a lot of the Allied tanks are srtuggling enough already with the German tanks. Tank driving on Normandy maps on Allied side would turn out to be hell on earth.

Right now it's perfect. In most situation you have to risk something, run out of cover to safely hit the shot with your panzerfaust. That's the way it should be.

I understand that the short range of the panzerfaust feels uncomfortible and strange, but more range simply destroys the balance.

Furthermore, you can shoot a decent bit further with the panzerfaust by aiming higher and hitting the enemy tank from a ~ 75 ° angle. It's just a lot more difficult and again you have to risk something, which is good.

I would nothing hate more than Germans lying in Normandy's hedges, killing the tanks from safe cover easily without any risk of dying. That's just not the way it should work imo.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: -Svea-Livgarde- on 16-05-2012, 10:05:03
How about making the german anti-tank kit not being able to re-supply the panzerfaust from ammo crates and apcs?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Butcher on 17-05-2012, 19:05:01
How about making the german anti-tank kit not being able to re-supply the panzerfaust from ammo crates and apcs?
That would kill the fun. You have one shot with it and then need to run to an ammo box. Not being able to get new Fausts there would result in nearly no Panzerfausts for the german team. The ones who have fired their shot won´t get new fausts (nobody will run to an ammo truck from the middle of nowhere jsut to get one Faust) and as long as they are alife the slot is blocked.

Faust is fine atm. You need to aim a bit higher and you get some more range as Surfbird stated.

I can only hope the thing will stay effective when the Eastern front comes, versus JS 2 and ISU. The thing was deadly in WW2 and lived from its surprise effect. Right now when you don´t finish tanks with it you are dead because you are in a 20 meter radius to the target.  :P
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-05-2012, 00:05:00
it would be stupid yeah. German troops often had spare fausts ready in trenches and such
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Oberst on 08-06-2012, 09:06:41
I dont see the problem. If I miss a shot ingame, but I see, where my projectile hits, I just adjust my aiming. So if everything is scaled down, where is the problem?

Even in real life its the same. If you miss your target, adjust your aim. Every soldier should know the aimpoint of his waepon.
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: Berkolok on 13-06-2012, 10:06:30
act like a you throwing a stone with a stick ;D
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: FHMax3 on 26-01-2017, 21:01:21
Yet i would love to see a Volkssturm Player model whit 3 Panzerfuasts...
I wish too. But at least we have Volksturm weapons!!
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: ajappat on 26-01-2017, 22:01:45
Yet i would love to see a Volkssturm Player model whit 3 Panzerfuasts...
I wish too. But at least we have Volksturm weapons!!
Do you look at the dates AT ALL?
Title: Re: Panzerfaust
Post by: GeoPat on 30-01-2017, 01:01:14
Well I tried to kill a tank 3 times with a panzerfaust but I always missed cause that thing only travels 10 metres or so =p.

Is there a tactic (specially for aiming) besides getting really close to a tank?

Maybe you just suck!   :-*