Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Announcements => Announcements => Topic started by: Lightning on 21-08-2009, 01:08:05

Title: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lightning on 21-08-2009, 01:08:05
Hello and welcome back to another update of Forgotten Hope. We have quite a lot to show today, but first we would like to welcome yet another developer to the team. FatJoe has been a betatester for Forgotten Hope for a very long time and he has done many of our promotional images and even some vehicle skins. Now, he is officially developer. Welcome FatJoe!

Read the rest of this update on our website (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/main.php?lang=english&id_news=294).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 01:08:01
Grats Joe!

And damn that is a nice update!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 21-08-2009, 01:08:25
Grats, joe! i refreshed the page. No update. Too soon?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 01:08:48
YEAH, I just came home and now this, awesome. I say it's the American howitzer and/or a new map.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Eat Uranium on 21-08-2009, 01:08:56
Yay!, the achillies.


Wait a second...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Tiemann on 21-08-2009, 01:08:23
My money is on a map. ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 21-08-2009, 01:08:38
great. now a countdown timer shows up. idiot. gah!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 21-08-2009, 01:08:48
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...(4 lines of erased E's)!

I'm glad I read fast!

Moderation note: don't break the forum format, damn it!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Moose on 21-08-2009, 01:08:35
yay, final map. Release is imminent!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 21-08-2009, 01:08:42
Hooray!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Sir Apple on 21-08-2009, 01:08:26
Nice work guys.

Congrats again, Joe :).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: azn_chopsticks_boi on 21-08-2009, 01:08:55
Great job guys ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 01:08:07
Looks like the only tank/airforce centered map in normandy so far.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 21-08-2009, 01:08:23
Wait a damn second...why does it say it was made by fenring, toddel and DICE??
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 01:08:09
Dice. Plurar of die.


Or...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Eat Uranium on 21-08-2009, 01:08:19
Its a conspiracy, Lobo sold out
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 01:08:20
Perhaps it reuses a heightmap?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 01:08:15
Ding ding ding ding!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cadyshack on 21-08-2009, 01:08:30
Huzzah, FatJoe! You've been waiting quite a while for that.

JABOs!!!!!! The camo Sherman looks pretty cool, too.

And have we seen the new Spit variant? What is it, a Mk.IX?

And another Canuck map. They're in for sure, now. Hopefully it'll stop the questionings.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 01:08:43
So only three American maps in 2.2.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 02:08:56
3 with Amis', 2 with Brits and 2 with Canadians.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 02:08:00
Ding ding ding ding!

What does that mean? Am I right? if so, which heightmap?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Eat Uranium on 21-08-2009, 02:08:32
Am I right? if so, which heightmap?
Guess.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 02:08:51
That is an another quest for you.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 02:08:52
Am I right? if so, which heightmap?
Guess.

tbh I don't really know any bf2 maps...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 21-08-2009, 02:08:51
Great update.  ;D

I love the Beetle!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: silian on 21-08-2009, 02:08:26
And have we seen the new Spit variant? What is it, a Mk.IX?

It's the Mk.Vb slightly remodeled (no tropical filter) and with a new skin, looks nice though the underside paint and roundels should match that of the Typhoon. The Mk.V was still pretty common during the Normandy landings, though most were utilised for home defence, others were used for air sea rescue and spotting for the Allied naval armada (in particular by the USN squadron VCS-7 - flown in British markings).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 21-08-2009, 02:08:18
Congrats FatJoe, well earned indeed  ;)


Im now bursting with excitment, not least when I read this:

Quote
Our final item of today is seventh and last map of Forgotten Hope 2.2. There are, of course, many more maps being worked on, but they will not be ready in time for the coming release.

its coming.....ITS COMING OMGOMGOMG, etc  ;D

And also: BEETLE BEETLE BEETLE! BEETLE BEETLE BEETLE! nah-nah nah nah! nah-nah nah nah!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: FatJoe on 21-08-2009, 02:08:08
Thanks guys ^^

'bout time I decided to go dev :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Wilhelm on 21-08-2009, 02:08:18
What does that mean? Am I right? if so, which heightmap?

It is from one of the expansion packs, but I do not remember the name.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Meadow on 21-08-2009, 03:08:58
Wow, great models and the map looks sweet (love the shot of the tanks in the main base), but the best news of all this time is that 2.2 could well be round the corner. Putting a cap on the number of maps now and saying 'the coming release' is sure to get people salivating.

I suppose it's too much to ask how much more beta testing needs to be done, particularly on Totalize? The way I see it we could well get the mod next week or, failing that, on September 1st, 2009, the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of the war in Europe.

Furthermore... looks like the 'no Omaha or Pegasus, deal with it' rumours were true! Will be fun to see how that plays out with the great unwashed. I wonder if the Brazilian guy who turned up and said 'I think HOPE has been FORGOTTEN for this mod.. LOL! ..what about the Americans, Russians and Japanese... were they FORGOTTEN? HAHAHAAAAAA' after 2.0 will show up again to lament the absence of the only battle of the war (Omaha Beach).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 03:08:12
I CALL this mod "soon TO BE FORGOTTEN"

that guy was awesome

edit: got the heightmap:

(http://www.bf-games.net/images/bf2/maps/af/op_harvest_64.jpg)

One "Operation Harvest"
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Blodheafodban on 21-08-2009, 03:08:07
Simply amazing.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Gl@mRock on 21-08-2009, 03:08:01
Congrats Fat Joe! 

Great update as usual. Op. Totalize is pure beauty.  ;D

Q: I would like to know how the thermite grenade will work in game? Especially against tanks.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lobo on 21-08-2009, 03:08:09
thermite grenade works against the Pointe du Hoc guns
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: FlyGuy45 on 21-08-2009, 03:08:05
What did DICE make?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [ret]azreal on 21-08-2009, 04:08:32
Grads Joe. Always wondered why you never became a dev with such talent.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Hockeywarrior on 21-08-2009, 04:08:54
I CALL this mod "soon TO BE FORGOTTEN"

that guy was awesome

edit: got the heightmap:

(http://www.bf-games.net/images/bf2/maps/af/op_harvest_64.jpg)

One "Operation Harvest"
If you could clarify, what are you saying here? The terrain was borrowed from a Dice map?? That seems kinda silly to me.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Wilhelm on 21-08-2009, 04:08:04
If you could clarify, what are you saying here? The terrain was borrowed from a Dice map?? That seems kinda silly to me.

I never played the original "Operation Harvest" map, but Fenring saw that the heightmap made for a good armor map and adapted it for use in FH2.  :)

Q: I would like to know how the thermite grenade will work in game? Especially against tanks.

The thermite grenade only interacts with the Pointe du Hoc objective guns and vice versa.  Those two objects are unique in that the only thing the thermite grenade can damage are the guns and the only thing that damages the guns are the thermite grenades.

Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 21-08-2009, 04:08:34
the only thing the thermite grenade can damage are the guns and the only thing that damages the guns are the thermite grenades.

^thje most redundant sentence ive ever read.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Professor Anthrax on 21-08-2009, 05:08:49
Wonderful update devs! Nice tank and grenades and beautiful looking map. And congrats to the new member of the dev team. The BEST part of course was "Our final item of today is seventh and last map of Forgotten Hope 2.2. There are, of course, many more maps being worked on, but they will not be ready in time for the coming release."

With this news, now when we see the teaser "2.2 coming soon" when loading the game, we can believe it.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: GirlsHateMe on 21-08-2009, 05:08:43
Nice update guys!

Great render on the M4A1(76)W Medium Tank!

Good to see a FH1 toy making a return!

Grats to FatJoe on becoming a FH dev!

 
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 21-08-2009, 05:08:49
the only thing the thermite grenade can damage are the guns and the only thing that damages the guns are the thermite grenades.

^thje most redundant sentence ive ever read.

Redundancy brought to you by the Redundancy Department of Redundancy.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: General_Henry on 21-08-2009, 05:08:01
The PK car would be great for running people over...

I remember that it's pretty agile in FH1.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Wilhelm on 21-08-2009, 06:08:04
the only thing the thermite grenade can damage are the guns and the only thing that damages the guns are the thermite grenades.

^thje most redundant sentence ive ever read.

Redundancy brought to you by the Redundancy Department of Redundancy.

Hehe, it is not redundant!  I say two different things in that sentence. Thermite grenades can only damage the guns that are found on Pointe du Hoc.  This means that the thermite grenades cannot damage anything else in the entire mod.  

Then I said that the guns themselves cannot be damaged by anything else in the mod other than the thermite grenades.  That means that bazookas, satchels, or any other explosive device in the entire mod cannot damage those guns.

That is how they are coded to work!  I was just trying to specify the unique coding of both the thermite grenades and the objective guns. :)


Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Torenico on 21-08-2009, 06:08:54
Not even a 500kg Bomb can destroy it?.. i would like to add these guns in a map.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Alakazou on 21-08-2009, 07:08:30
Nice update.
Congratulation fatjoe
Nice new stuff.
Nice
nice
nice
nice
nice :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: powerz2 on 21-08-2009, 07:08:23
great.
Are those thermal grenades damage tanks? Actually one to the exhaust may disable the engine so it no longer moves!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kelmola on 21-08-2009, 07:08:04
Interesting. So even though US camo jackets are in, Cobra-la-la-la-la! will be postponed to 2.25. Aside from that, having no "regular" invasion beach or Pegasus will certainly mean that wine & cheese department is going to get loud. "WAAAA! ONLI LIEK SEVEN MAPS IS TOO LITTLE WERE IS AWSUM MAPS LIEK OMAHA!!!½½½½11§§§"

Though, nice to see the 76(W), even if not necessarily in 2.2 ;) And good to hear there are "several" more maps in the works.

Again, dreams were crushed: I expected no update this week ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 21-08-2009, 08:08:34
What weapons do the Canadians use? British with a couple of American thrown into the mix?

Oh, yeah, and great update ;D Getting real close now. Let's hope no nasty bugs show up.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 08:08:00
Neither, everyone is armed with a johnson and thermite grenade  :P

Lovely map - One of the most beautiful of the conventional Normandy maps...

A tad sad about no city map or beach map - Pegasus could kiss my ass, never saw anything drastically unique about it...

Also, kinda makes sense for not having the American Howitzer, the only map it could find a place would have been Luttich - you don't climb cliffs or drop from the skies into Rommels asparagus with self propelled howitzers after all.

COld hearted and calcualted how things played out -Love the balance, 3 American, 2 Brit, 2 Canadian - Glad to see the Devs didn't get caught up in the Normandy fever and make em all American. Sure, my favorite army, but still... Save for the aforementioned hoped-for map types, I think Normandy 2.2 is a theater I can sink my teeth into

Next up: Road to Forgotten 2.2... and my last computer component to come down for it to work for me... talk about perfect timing :-)


Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Raziel on 21-08-2009, 08:08:37
 ;D HUZAHH!!! pops cork on champagne bottle.....Champagne for everyone! We must celebrate!! Great update guys! We can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.... :o   Look at that FW190....it's a splendid machine....droools
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 21-08-2009, 08:08:48
Now that I've had time to look through the screenshots some more, I'm shocked by the amount of vehicles on this map. Among other things:

Tiger
Marder 1
Firefly
Churchill
Cromwell
Sherman 76 ?
FW 190
Tempest
Spitfire
Nebelwerfer

...and lots of Kübels, Halftracks and trucks, not to mention the awesome statics! True works of art.
This might very well turn out to be my favorite map. :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 08:08:52
Now that I've had time to look through the screenshots some more, I'm shocked by the amount of vehicles on this map. Among other things:

Tiger
Marder 1
Firefly
Churchill
Cromwell
Sherman 76 ?
FW 190
Tempest
Spitfire
Nebelwerfer

...and lots of Kübels, Halftracks and trucks, not to mention the awesome statics! True works of art.
This might very well turn out to be my favorite map. :)

Don't you mean Typhoon?
Don't forget 88 and Pak40

Love the windmill, factory and trenches too - Lovely setup for a nice defense, with rolling French countryside in the background. 
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Sparks on 21-08-2009, 08:08:04
You guys have made map design an art. And I'm not a fanboy!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kelmola on 21-08-2009, 09:08:24
Oh, and forgot to say that just the sheer sillines of charging through El Alamein with the Käfer is so awesome it alone should attract people to FH2. ;D Plus the Spit was a nice touch (even if it isn't Mk. IX or XIV).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 21-08-2009, 09:08:12
Don't you mean Typhoon?

Right. I think I confused it with the Tempest because it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Or was it? Whatever. Still alot of beautiful hardware!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Priestdk on 21-08-2009, 09:08:49
Awesome update;-)
Gratz to Fatjoe! perhabs this will stop him from tilt bathtubs doing testing  ;) (that sentence about a specifik map screenshot a wile back is proberly some off the funniest things i ever read here on the forum)

Beetle is just pure awesomeness. Indeed fun to use.

Toddels models are just as usual 100% eyecandy.

Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 21-08-2009, 09:08:56
Verry nice map  :D and congrats to Joe  ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: General_Henry on 21-08-2009, 10:08:30
Now that I've had time to look through the screenshots some more, I'm shocked by the amount of vehicles on this map. Among other things:

Tiger
Marder 1
Firefly
Churchill
Cromwell
Sherman 76 ?
FW 190
Tempest
Spitfire
Nebelwerfer

...and lots of Kübels, Halftracks and trucks, not to mention the awesome statics! True works of art.
This might very well turn out to be my favorite map. :)

Don't you mean Typhoon?
Don't forget 88 and Pak40

Love the windmill, factory and trenches too - Lovely setup for a nice defense, with rolling French countryside in the background. 

I thought I see King Tiger
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fenring on 21-08-2009, 10:08:38
The heightmap and general layout was made by DICE.

Textures, materials, sounds, all statics, light settings and water shader is brand new for FH2. The decision to borrow this heightmap came from two reasons, 1.) time constraint: This project was started in May-2009 and to make the release in 2-3 months including testing of the map a more radical apporach to mapping was needed. Art was added to the map same time as it was tested. 2:) We didnt want to release normandy without a big vehicle map. Toddel helped me a great deal placing "art statics" on this map, so now hes a mapper as well  :)

Some bonus facts:
Drawdistance is same as El Alamein and Gazala, this was very hard to achive with all vegitation, remdul made some great improvements to the overgrowth lods to make this possible.

Vehicle layout is as follows:
Germans
2x Typ 82 Kübelwagen
4x Opel Blitz S 3.6 (also ammo version)
6x SdKfz 251/1 Ausf. D "Hanomag"
1x SdKfz 135 "Marder I"
1x StuG 40 Ausf. G (late)
1x Flakpanzer IV "Wirbelwind"
2x PzKpfw IV Ausf. H
2x PzKpfw V Ausf. A "Panther"
2x PzKpfw VI Ausf. E "Tiger"
1x Focke Wulf FW 190A-8
1x Focke Wulf FW 190A-8 "Fighter Bomber"

Static defences/guns: Nebelwerfer, Pak40, Flak vierling, Flak88

Canada
1x Willys MB-2
4x Bedford OY (Including ammo version)
4x Universal Carrier
2x Churchill Mk IV
4x Cromwell IV
4x Sherman V
1x Sherman VC "Firefly"
1x M10 Achilles IIC
2x Hawker Typhoon Mk I B
1x Supermarine Spitfire Mk. Vb

Static defenses / Guns: Ordnance QF 25-pdr Mk IV, Ordnance QF 6-pdr AT Gun Mk IV, Bofors 40mm
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Die Happy on 21-08-2009, 10:08:24
not on that map
but 2 tigers are better than 1 king tiger ;)

and congratz fatjoe, you deserve it

this rounds it up
we got many nice maps, some almost infantry only other very vehicle based other feature it all. normandy is like a complete different game when it come to gameplay. tanks are still the kings of the battlefield but not have to face much harder and potent enemies. rambo-ing around alone will most likely end in a quick death, by rockets of typhoons , zookas, schrecks, fauts, piat or other explosives. then there are stronger AT guns and special tank hunter vehicles.
the key is combined arms, pushing the enemy back inch by inch by utilizing strong all available forces.



this will be a glorious release.

Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 10:08:26
12 allies tanks VS 9 german tanks


Hm i hope this will work :-[

Another fantastic update as usual. Toddel's  76MM sherman looks fantastic. Shame the germans get a Mobile AA gun and allies dont....
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: NTH on 21-08-2009, 11:08:10
The heightmap and general layout was made by DICE.

Textures, materials, sounds, all statics, light settings and water shader is brand new for FH2. The decision to borrow this heightmap came from two reasons, 1.) time constraint: This project was started in May-2009 and to make the release in 2-3 months including testing of the map a more radical apporach to mapping was needed. Art was added to the map same time as it was tested. 2:) We didnt want to release normandy without a big vehicle map. Toddel helped me a great deal placing "art statics" on this map, so now hes a mapper as well  :)


Congrats FatJoe.
Splendid update guys. I noticed the water looking better then usual, great job on the water shader. The whole map is as usual a great piece of art.

Normandy here we come !
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 11:08:02
12 allies tanks VS 9 german tanks


Hm i hope this will work :-[

Another fantastic update as usual. Toddel's  76MM sherman looks fantastic. Shame the germans get a Mobile AA gun and allies dont....

I think its 6 axis tanks, 2 axis tank destoyers\assault guns and 12 allied tanks... I think its still strongly in the Axis favor - Remember Alpenfestung from Fh1? Fewer German tanks, but the 2 or 3 Panthers were murder anytime they showed up, and KT just run amok across the battlefield and was almost unstoppable until it passed 2 bases of aggressive defenders

Here we have 2 Tigers and formidable German defenses... Don't forget, 4 of those allied tanks are Sherman Vs.... Not Firelies

About the AAs, I think its fine.. Sure wolud have been nice to see the American quad-50 cal. but then again, only one map currently in can accomodate it, and it might not have been historically true - I'm sure when operation cobra comes out, we'll see more of such

One thing is for sure, without teamwork, those big cats will make quick work of the allies
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 21-08-2009, 11:08:34
Finally a tank with that nice British black cloud camouflage painting. Thanks Toddel!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 11:08:30
12 allies tanks VS 9 german tanks


Hm i hope this will work :-[

Another fantastic update as usual. Toddel's  76MM sherman looks fantastic. Shame the germans get a Mobile AA gun and allies dont....

I think its 6 axis tanks, 2 axis tank destoyers\assault guns and 12 allied tanks... I think its still strongly in the Axis favor - Remember Alpenfestung from Fh1? Fewer German tanks, but the 2 or 3 Panthers were murder anytime they showed up, and KT just run amok across the battlefield and was almost unstoppable until it passed 2 bases of aggressive defenders

Here we have 2 Tigers and formidable German defenses... Don't forget, 4 of those allied tanks are Sherman Vs.... Not Firelies

About the AAs, I think its fine.. Sure wolud have been nice to see the American quad-50 cal. but then again, only one map currently in can accomodate it, and it might not have been historically true - I'm sure when operation cobra comes out, we'll see more of such

One thing is for sure, without teamwork, those big cats will make quick work of the allies
thats what i mean. 12 Allied tanks are not enough to stop this armada.Surely they have Typhoons, but Axis has 2 FW-190s and even a Wirblewind

Even IF the 17 PDR tanks can one shot kill a tiger, this will still be a Very VERY difficult map for the allies

Another example is Supercharge.Axis have less then half the tanks, and even then they give us a Very very hard time
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 11:08:57
Have you played the map?



Yeah.



It's fine.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 11:08:20
Have you played the map?



Yeah.



It's fine.
It better be
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 11:08:43
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Technoelite on 21-08-2009, 11:08:21
very well done guys look really really nice thank good u havent done the small american thing and realised and done omaha it sucks every mod does it but i do like it that there are more uk and commonwealth maps even though it is one more historically the UK and commonwealth forces had to fight more in normandy to allow the Yanks to breakthrough. And a good balance of tanks on the map i mean a normal sherman and cromwell will ahve no chance agaisnt panthers and tigers from the front hell that be hard.

Is it one shot from the panthers to kill the sherman or is it 2 just wondering
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 11:08:51
I udnerstand is point of view, and I'm sure it is a touch map for the allies... But perhaps the balance comes in gameplay - I can imagine the Germans feeling superior in their Big cats and running around the battlefield popping anything on threads - But with no real combined strategy... The Canucks on the other hand will likely move in close groups and maneouver their tanks to try and get real kill shots... What is more, a single shot from any tank should render the wirblewind useless... And there ARE 2 rocket-phoons with a Spitfire whereas the axis have only their 2 FWs, one of which isn't a fighter-bomber... Rockets work from long way off, bombs need to dropped from almost right on top of the target

But sure, if the devs have deemed it fit to show as an update, like all others before it, then it must be balanced enough... Not eay for both sides, but balanced... I'll bet there are maps there that have been tested, and are complete, but need work in balance, hence their being MIA

But you sure need combined arms to win this battle, straight out tank-tank battles will be butchering -you need smoke, air cover and artillery... And heck, some smart guy with a PIAT might just give one side the edge
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Die Happy on 21-08-2009, 11:08:56
the battle on totalize are very dynamic
allies start with full force and clash the first few flags with it
only thing to hold them off are AT guns infatry and the 2 tank destroyers
the rest of the german tanks either has to drive long way to the front (typhoons are likely to catch them unless the FW190 cover them )or spawns with a delay giving the allies a chance to gain a foothold for further advances.  
then usually you get the big german counter attack with the big cats blowing away most stuff but then get ambushed by infantry, firelfy/achilles or the usual typhoons (those things are areal pain in the ass for the german tankers.(remember breakthrough in fh 0.7 ;))

however communication (even if it is just spotting tanks on the minimap) is key for the air support and air denial (spotting the typhoons so the  FW190 can take them out)

thus you get a nice back and forth until one side runs out of tickets.

Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 12:08:47
I think we need a training video for this kind of warfare!!! Impulsive and infantile of me, no?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Uberhauptstormfuhrer on 21-08-2009, 12:08:37
Now that release is imminent can you tell us something about the classes and their layout?

I would love to see some kind of combat engineer, grenadier class/kit included
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kev4000 on 21-08-2009, 12:08:00
very well done guys look really really nice thank good u havent done the small american thing and realised and done omaha it sucks every mod does it but i do like it that there are more uk and commonwealth maps even though it is one more historically the UK and commonwealth forces had to fight more in normandy to allow the Yanks to breakthrough. And a good balance of tanks on the map i mean a normal sherman and cromwell will ahve no chance agaisnt panthers and tigers from the front hell that be hard.

Is it one shot from the panthers to kill the sherman or is it 2 just wondering

Panthers will be able to destroy the sherman with one shot, regardless of where. The allies may have smaller guns and thinner armour, however the cromwell for example can use speed to its advantage and can easily outflank the tigers and panthers.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ionizer on 21-08-2009, 12:08:48
Awesome.  Congrats to Joe.

Question:  Does the terrain "borrowed" from DICE fit the actual terrain of the battle?  Or does this map suffer a small bit from not being totally accurate (as opposed to say, Giarabub, where you can see the parallels of the map with period photos)?  Not that it matters, I'm positive no one will complain about because it doesn't look a thing like a BF2 map and the gameplay is sure to outclass anything that DICE could ever produce (not to mention its the only plane map in 2.2 :)).

I don't care anymore.  Yay almost release!  Is it too presumptuous to ask what is holding up the release?   Coding, new vehicles, new statics, promo material, testing?  Or do you not want to tell us, because the release is next week?  Yea yea, a little too optimistic, I know.  BTW, September Fourth would be an awesome release day.  It's a Friday, and it's my birthday.  Best Birthday present ever?  Maybe.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: General_Henry on 21-08-2009, 12:08:13
the battle on totalize are very dynamic
allies start with full force and clash the first few flags with it
only thing to hold them off are AT guns infatry and the 2 tank destroyers
the rest of the german tanks either has to drive long way to the front (typhoons are likely to catch them unless the FW190 cover them )or spawns with a delay giving the allies a chance to gain a foothold for further advances.  
then usually you get the big german counter attack with the big cats blowing away most stuff but then get ambushed by infantry, firelfy/achilles or the usual typhoons (those things are areal pain in the ass for the german tankers.(remember breakthrough in fh 0.7 ;))

however communication (even if it is just spotting tanks on the minimap) is key for the air support and air denial (spotting the typhoons so the  FW190 can take them out)

thus you get a nice back and forth until one side runs out of tickets.



I think you mean that when the Germans are driving up, the Canadians should be taking some flags and laying in ambush already.

A firefly in ambush should be really nasty I guess.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: BUNNY on 21-08-2009, 12:08:34
Beautifull as hell!!!
I'll start agitating my workmates with these screenies.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fenring on 21-08-2009, 12:08:53
Awesome.  Congrats to Joe.

Question:  Does the terrain "borrowed" from DICE fit the actual terrain of the battle?

I never make maps of actual terrain, the size of the worlds in bf2 is simply to small, for me its more important to get the "feel" of the battle. Vehicle layouts, kits, soldier skins and attacking directions are always based on the real battles tough.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 21-08-2009, 12:08:20
The river is the biggest inaccuracy I believe.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 21-08-2009, 12:08:43
You people worry too much about the bloody balance. Germans wont have big kittens to play around with from the start of the map and even if they do, they arent overpowered as there are zoo-keeping typhoons, achilles and fireflies to keep them at bay. As long as the Luftwaffe and Wirbelwind does their job properly, then the Tiger is a real threat.

I understand some of the people here too. At first I didnt like the sound nor look of the idea of using a DICE heightmap and each time I looked at the OLD minimap it reminded me ugly vanilla stuff, but nowadays it doesnt as Fenring and Toddel made great job with the map. It might borrow a heightmap but it is more FH2 feeling than BF2. It is one of my favorite maps.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Natty on 21-08-2009, 12:08:02
The river is the biggest inaccuracy I believe.

There are countless rivers in this area..

Fenring took a great design decision using this terrain as base for the map (which he also edited alot), and when we do maps that presents an "Operation" like Lüttich, Goodwood, Totalize or similar, we don't aim for 1:1 actual locations. (as operations are bigger than secluded scenarios like Pointe de Hoc) This map is perfect for this Operation. :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ionizer on 21-08-2009, 12:08:39
I'm sure it is.  It's just in my nature to nitpick about stuff I like.

Like I said, I'm sure the map is awesome and plays great.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Aggroman on 21-08-2009, 13:08:10
Totalize is one of my favorite maps, it's very balanced and the lookout is perfect. The Typhoons are a bit annoying for the german tankers but it's fun to drive a Panther or a Tiger and kill some enemys.
It's perfect for everybody, you can fight as infantry in the trenches, going for some ambushes against the tanks with your AT weapons, fly with the planes and destroy the tanks, drive around with a tank and kill other tanks. Just perfect, the public players will love that map like I'm doing it.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: elander on 21-08-2009, 13:08:11
Woooohooo!! Oyeah!  This will be epic!!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Maxa on 21-08-2009, 13:08:55
Things are looking really good. I can't wait... to park my kitten under a tree and try shooting down ze planes

And those trees near the river look awesome
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 13:08:33
Again, lovely map... I can just imagine the epic battle unfolding with tanks racing across that countryside and all hell suddenly breaking loose...

To pu Ionizer's question diffenrently, with all maps done, and perhaps all needed hardware and armies, is there any more between us and the release - Or are we left with simply the time for cleanup and packaging?

* Although not forthrightly stated, I can imagine a good number of maps waiting in queue and hence a quick version 2.21 or 2.25 soon after release of 2.2
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: NTH on 21-08-2009, 13:08:36
The river is the biggest inaccuracy I believe.

The river is the biggest plus point of this map. You boys can shoot each other to crap for all I care, I'm going swimming !!!
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Totalize/Totalize1.jpg)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 21-08-2009, 13:08:43
They where talking about historical inaccuracies, I believe there was no river in the middle of the battlegrounds of Totalize.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Stonechater on 21-08-2009, 13:08:24
Nice stuff but I wanted a date  :P

Btw, I love those trenches!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Die Happy on 21-08-2009, 13:08:52
most classes have been discussed before

most of them are the same as in africa
at classes loose the at rifles and get rocket(and piat) weapons

nothing out of the obvious, sure you get some nice pickupkits  but those are supposed to be more of a secret.
of course americans get semi auto rifles and on those maps mostly germans get G43 in a limited fashion to counter that advantage.

some people will love their mg42 lafette,
Jürgen:"hey hans i think i saw some movemnt in the bushes over there"
Hans: "OK"
*brrrt brrt brtt*
Hans  MG42-Lafette  Private Miller
Hans  MG42-Lafette  Sergeant Paula


goodtimes :D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kev4000 on 21-08-2009, 13:08:53
After playing a few betatesting sessions of this map, I must say it has the best rock - paper - scissor style gameplay of any map we have.

To pu Ionizer's question diffenrently, with all maps done, and perhaps all needed hardware and armies, is there any more between us and the release - Or are we left with simply the time for cleanup and packaging?

We're getting close to release, its no secret. Cleanup is the last step now indeed, however we're still in the dark about how long this will take. I won't even bother giving an estimation, as the next estimation will likely be official.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Priestdk on 21-08-2009, 13:08:00
Plain and simple the map is well balanced and play´s wery well.
Like Agromann already said the bloody typhoons are anoying as hell for the german tanks but iff the german pilots and the wirbelwind does it job, well then the tigers are to be feard.(Also the germans dont have Tigers from the start/timespawn or flag related dont recall)
This map is all the tankers/pilots out there dreams come thrue. and ontop off that it have 5 plaines. But not to forget the wery importens off the inf. role on this map.
I would also like to add there is no way in hell enyone will be able to walk thrue this map and then be able to say afterwards this looks to Vanilla like, or resembles vanilla.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Twonkle on 21-08-2009, 13:08:28
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Totalize/minimap_small.jpg)

I couldn't help to notice that dice helped, how did u get them to assist you? I thought they left the modders do their own work. Nice anyhow :D I hope it was Dice sweden that helped u and not dice canada ;)



Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: fh_spitfire on 21-08-2009, 13:08:39
GRATZJOE
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 21-08-2009, 13:08:42
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/template/showscreenshot.php?type=minimapfh2&imagename=Operation%20Totalize/minimap.jpg)

I couldn't help to notice that dice helped, how did u get them to assist you? I thought they left the modders do their own work. Nice anyhow :D I hope it was Dice sweden that helped u and not dice canada ;)

The map is from one of DICEs boosterpacks, with new statics and vehicles.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 21-08-2009, 14:08:43
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/template/showscreenshot.php?type=minimapfh2&imagename=Operation%20Totalize/minimap.jpg)

I couldn't help to notice that dice helped, how did u get them to assist you? I thought they left the modders do their own work. Nice anyhow :D I hope it was Dice sweden that helped u and not dice canada ;)

The map is from one of DICEs boosterpacks, with new statics and vehicles.
With new everything. AFAIK only the heightmap is from DiCE.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 21-08-2009, 14:08:00
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/template/showscreenshot.php?type=minimapfh2&imagename=Operation%20Totalize/minimap.jpg)

I couldn't help to notice that dice helped, how did u get them to assist you? I thought they left the modders do their own work. Nice anyhow :D I hope it was Dice sweden that helped u and not dice canada ;)

The map is from one of DICEs boosterpacks, with new statics and vehicles.
With new everything. AFAIK only the heightmap is from DiCE.

Let's make it clear once and for all:

Only the heightmap was borrowed from DICE's original map. A heightmap is the 3D shape of the landscape, every hill, bump, river and lake is part of the heightmap.

The rest; buildings, vehicles, vegetation, playermodels, kits and all kinds of smaller changes that you would never even think of was created by the developers of Forgotten Hope.

In conclusion: this is FENRING's map. DICE provided the inspiration for him to create the map.

/edit: Oh, yeah, and Toddel helped too. ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Twonkle on 21-08-2009, 14:08:18
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/template/showscreenshot.php?type=minimapfh2&imagename=Operation%20Totalize/minimap.jpg)

I couldn't help to notice that dice helped, how did u get them to assist you? I thought they left the modders do their own work. Nice anyhow :D I hope it was Dice sweden that helped u and not dice canada ;)

The map is from one of DICEs boosterpacks, with new statics and vehicles.
With new everything. AFAIK only the heightmap is from DiCE.

Ye I just backed up and read Fenrhids post
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: corsair89 on 21-08-2009, 14:08:06
Really nice update, full of new toys to play with  :D

Will the Beetle be included in many Africa maps or not ?

Another question that come to my mind, I remember that somewhere Lightning classed the 2.15 maps depending on their accuracy (terrain-wise). Giarabub and Sfakia were very accurate while Aberdeen was deemed 99% inaccurate. How is it for 2.2 maps ?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Admiral Donutz on 21-08-2009, 14:08:29
Congrats FJ! The VW "Käfer" is cool but I wun my Kübel more. Hehehe.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lightning on 21-08-2009, 14:08:46
Will the Beetle be included in many Africa maps or not ?
I think it's only on El Alamein.

Another question that come to my mind, I remember that somewhere Lightning classed the 2.15 maps depending on their accuracy (terrain-wise). Giarabub and Sfakia were very accurate while Aberdeen was deemed 99% inaccurate. How is it for 2.2 maps ?
It depends how you count really. If you do not take into consideration the vehicles and the soldiers (there are placeholders in 2.2), then I would list the maps as being:
Pointe Du Hoc - 100% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=49.394329,-0.988641&spn=0.012765,0.027595&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Pointe%20du%20Hoc/Minimap.jpg))
Purple Heart Lane - 100% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=49.3188,-1.263084&spn=0.025569,0.055189&z=14) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Purple%20Heart%20Lane/minimap.jpg))
Lebisey - 100% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=49.21457,-0.340104&spn=0.012811,0.027595&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Lebisey/minimap.jpg))
Operation Goodwood -90% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.147356,-0.258179&spn=0.051315,0.110378&t=p&z=13) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Goodwood/minimap.jpg))
Operation Totalize - 5% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Mortain&sll=48.748945,-1.021729&sspn=1.655198,3.532104&ie=UTF8&ll=49.066219,-0.300751&spn=0.102798,0.220757&t=p&z=12) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Totalize/minimap.jpg))
Operation Lüttich - 30% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Mortain&sll=48.748945,-1.021729&sspn=1.655198,3.532104&ie=UTF8&ll=48.648392,-0.938644&spn=0.012957,0.027595&t=p&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Luttich/minimap.jpg))
Falaise Pocket - 85% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=48.816811,0.076132&spn=0.012914,0.027595&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Falaise%20Pocket/minimap.jpg))

Apart from Lüttich and Totalize, all maps are very accurate. Much more so than any of the Africa maps. They are nearly all exact copies of the actual terrain with the correct scale. (Which is why none of them has planes, they simply wouldn't fit.)


Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: corsair89 on 21-08-2009, 15:08:46
Ok thanks for the reply, I thought that Mortain was more accurate ;)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 21-08-2009, 15:08:59
Good news to here about the vehicle layout, and even more about experiences on the map itself  ;D

I think we need a training video for this kind of warfare!!! Impulsive and infantile of me, no?
I support this idea, I know this will effect the release date (if it isnt already in the works) but doing a tutorial on 'the normandy campaign' would be a excellent promo video. The general idea being what the differences (warfare wise) between this and the africa campaign (i.e. bushes for ambushes, CQB, German tanks > Allied tanks, etc).
(although this may give new players the wrong idea for exmaple making them think that they must go germans because they have the better tanks, then again...this my prove to be a great counter-balance to the fact that most western players want to play allies, you never know  ;)).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Eat Uranium on 21-08-2009, 15:08:04
What more do you need to know than:
This is called foliage, you hide behind it.  That is called a big cat, you crap yourself and wait for the fireflys.

But seriously, you won't believe just how close you can be to the enemy and neither you nor they know it.  The grass ninja rises again.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 21-08-2009, 15:08:30
Mybe something like "do not charge your firefly head on into the path of a Tiger tank. These tanks are no equal matches. You will get blown to pieces"

Yknow, to help the uneducated  :P
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 16:08:30
Ok, here's the truth:

1) I want a training video that features an American soldeir like sarge was Brit for North Africa
2) It makes for a good package addition for the game.
3) It will be tres cool to see a normandy training video outlining the stuff specific to that theater
4) It serves for very good promo by outlining specifc features and game-play about FH, rather just showing ingame action
5) I can guess what it should contain, but this will be guessing... The above reasons are the real deal

However, if it needs purpose, here goes:
1) Use of new antitank weapons - not just how to fire them, but tactics employed for their proper deployment
2) Ambush tactics in hedgerows, using deployable MG and mortar, ambush tactics in towns and buildings
3) I would say house to house fighting techniques, but I'll leave that for another update with more built up towns
4) Combined arms tactics... Calling in air-support, using tanks against more deadly opponents, tank and infantry-together training, coordinating artillery with ground forces
5) Infantry tactics.. Suppression and maneouver tactics... will be a shitload more useful if *AHEM* all weapns had some degree of supression... but still useful notwithstanding
6) Entrenching and defense tactics


* same goes for concept art... I can't give a logical reason why I'd suggest it, but like the British Charge and the Supercharge concept art, I sure will like such a thing for Normandy... Or a propaganda woman like the DAK babe McGibs did for FH2 North Africa
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 21-08-2009, 16:08:43
What djinn said  ;)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Smiles on 21-08-2009, 16:08:16
Some news can make me smile :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 16:08:19
Mybe something like "do not charge your firefly head on into the path of a Tiger tank. These tanks are no equal matches. You will get blown to pieces"

Yknow, to help the uneducated  :P
you can actually can call the Firefly and Tiger equal.

Both can destroy eachother with one shot
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 21-08-2009, 16:08:46
I keep forgetting how powerful the 17pdr is  :P i just thought it would take two shots to take down a tiger from the front, my bad  ;)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [CHN]Harrier on 21-08-2009, 17:08:25
Is there any significant improvement of gameplay for 2.2 ?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuzz on 21-08-2009, 17:08:08
Nice update!

It's a awesone map i have nothing to say...
Great job for the vegetation, and the houses are good now ;D
i need to playing !!!   :o  :P
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Toddel on 21-08-2009, 17:08:22
Is there any significant improvement of gameplay for 2.2 ?

well... lol... i would need a few hours to explain that....

i wont tell so much maybe you will see it in the Road to FH2.2
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [CHN]Harrier on 21-08-2009, 17:08:06
 ;D Thanks for reply, Toddel.

I'm also wondering if we are going to have a burst of news updates in the upcoming weeks.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kubador on 21-08-2009, 18:08:47
Wooohoo for FatJoe! You lucky son of a gun ;).

And for everyone doubting Totalize balance: just don't. It's a great map!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 18:08:03
I keep forgetting how powerful the 17pdr is  :P i just thought it would take two shots to take down a tiger from the front, my bad  ;)
It better be one shot

Tiger's frontal armor=100MM
17PDR=140MM armor penetration at 500 Meter range    131MM armor penetration at 1000meter range Thats for the standard APCBC round
The APDS round had 209MM penetration, but only made up 6% of the totall ammo layout

Imo, The Firefly should have a few APDS rounds. They where as rare as PZG 40, but became common in late 1944.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [QPS]_Sex_Bomb on 21-08-2009, 18:08:54
Amazing update, as usual!   :o

But the BIG news for me, is that 2.2 release is coming soon.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: HappyFunBall on 21-08-2009, 18:08:08
Why has no one else pounced on this yet?

...time constraint: This project was started in May-2009 and to make the release in 2-3 months including testing of the map a more radical apporach to mapping was needed....


The next is simple math. When is two to three months after May? I got start posting in this forum more if you guys can't keep the release speculation stoked!

Seriously though, congrats fat joe, doubly so since you are only a simple Icelander.

Too bad about no Charlie Sector in this release. That's ok though, it will come, it will come.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 19:08:30
Most kinda figured it once the update was read through... And the devs don't make much of a secret about how possibly soon it will be in their responses...

Ah, to cruise those fields in a tank... or flit around in a plane like a fairy blessing tankers below with a touch of your wan... 'mouse button' causing them to sprawl among the chrysanthemums... in flashes of light and warmth... and burning charred steel

No one commented about our first ever fighter-bomber...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [ret]azreal on 21-08-2009, 19:08:37
Quote
No one commented about our first ever fighter-bomber...
Are you talking about the Typhoon, cause they Hurricane Mk. II C w/ 50kg bombs has been in the mod for some time.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Brewchief on 21-08-2009, 19:08:40
NICE! Pretty exciting.  Everything looks great!   Congrats FatJoe!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Phoenixo_Idaho on 21-08-2009, 19:08:10
Very nice update ! So the release is pretty soon  :D.

congralts Joe  ;).

That news has been translated to french in somua.com and 79th
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 19:08:19
Quote
No one commented about our first ever fighter-bomber...
Are you talking about the Typhoon, cause they Hurricane Mk. II C w/ 50kg bombs has been in the mod for some time.

I consider that one a tank destroyer\buster aircraft... Was referring to the FH190 with bomb
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: GenKnight on 21-08-2009, 19:08:13
Nice stuff devs.

You'all haven't missed a lick in putting out the quality.

My first though was "what can thermite grenades do to troops?" but that has been well answered.

I like the idea that you can choose your poison (armor, infantry, air) to administer.

Good job and looking forward to your soon release.   :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 19:08:43
Quote
No one commented about our first ever fighter-bomber...
Are you talking about the Typhoon, cause they Hurricane Mk. II C w/ 50kg bombs has been in the mod for some time.
Wich appear in only one map.....

The Hurribomber should appear on more maps, like Supercharge for once.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 21-08-2009, 19:08:02
 :-X

This map seems like the sole Normandy equivalent of el Alamein or Mareth - nice to meet you, map number 7
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tiny on 21-08-2009, 20:08:55
Wow.

Those FW190's almost made my eyes pop out. Love the lighting of this map.

Feel like it's really rounding up now, FH-beta testers running their mouths and all.

And those typhoons will be kept at bay.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 21-08-2009, 20:08:33
Foke-Wolf 190 is one of the most aerodynamic planes of the war due to its engine cowling.

Therefore, the thing should be fast ingame.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 21-08-2009, 20:08:52
Top Speed: 410mph.

I think so.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: AdamPA1006 on 21-08-2009, 20:08:51
Anyone else have problems with 1:1 scale maps? Hundreds of people fought in these battles while we only have 64?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: FatJoe on 21-08-2009, 20:08:47
Seriously though, congrats fat joe, doubly so since you are only a simple Icelander.

NB.. a simple Icelander.. not a complex one :D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [F|H]Deek_101 on 21-08-2009, 20:08:05
Congratulations FatJoe!

Excellent update, keep up the work fella's!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Slayer on 21-08-2009, 21:08:00
Imo, The Firefly should have a few APDS rounds. They where as rare as PZG 40, but became common in late 1944.

You said it there, late 1944. Normandy campaign was over by then. So maybe later?

Nice update! And congratulations to FatJoe!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-08-2009, 21:08:34
Imo, The Firefly should have a few APDS rounds. They where as rare as PZG 40, but became common in late 1944.

You said it there, late 1944. Normandy campaign was over by then. So maybe later?

Hold it. APDS shells where AROUND before late 1944. They became COMMON late 1944.APDS where around 1944 march.In not much quantity, but they where around.And probaly in even bigger quantities then German tanks had with PZG40 and HEAT for their Panzers.

PZG40 and HEAT shells of Panzer 3 and 4 where extremely rare, yet EVERY german tank has them in FH 2 .    IRL by far did every german tank had them. Thats why, for instance, The Matilda got so much succeses in the beginning of the Desert campaign. only the 88MM was an effective way to counter it.
Then  why not the allies?The 6 pounder had APCR in October 1943 and APDS shells in March 1944. Yet do we see them for the 6 pounder??I read we only get one AP shot and HE

What is it with giving every german tank Special ammo?and giving the Allies None?even though they had them, in even more quantities than the Germans
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: McGibs on 21-08-2009, 22:08:12
One of the biggest changes is obviously in the tank/infantry relationship. Infantry can actively choose to avoid tanks much easier by laying low, as opposed to just sticking out like a sore thumb in the sand. Ive been hiding in the grass right in front of many tanks, looking right at me, and have them completely miss me.

And rocket AT weapons are very rewarding. Theyre super clumbsy, and take a few seconds to deploy (no more fast-switching like in FH1). You really have to actively prepare for your target.
Best is by far the panzershreck, which has great range, very straight flight path, and will burn through any allied armor. It just aint very common.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kuupperi on 21-08-2009, 23:08:40
So... there's a release date already decided but not told yet? On the website: "Our final item of today is seventh and last map of Forgotten Hope 2.2. There are, of course, many more maps being worked on, but they will not be ready in time for the coming release."

Probably I've missed a point or two. Maybe the long wait has made me paranoid. Anyway nice update and congratulations FatJoe!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kelmola on 21-08-2009, 23:08:11
Anyone else have problems with 1:1 scale maps? Hundreds of people fought in these battles while we only have 64?
I think 64 players is just enough to create an illusion of a larger battle (though 128 would be better). In real life, troops did not respawn. And they did not advance in one huge clump. So wave after wave after wave is enough to give an illusion of a full-scale battle.

Plus, forgetting the all-seeing map, as an infantry, you usually do not have the luxury of seeing hundreds of enemies all at once. Unless you were manning the bunkers on the invasion beaches. And even then, there's only so many enemies you can see through the narrow firing slit, even less through the optics of MG42 Lafette...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 22-08-2009, 01:08:00
I agree. what's more, 1:1 scaled maps if possible is what I think FH is going for, the less scaled maps give less of a sense of the real battle, and this only gets worse with greater scaling

Imagine Operation market garden vBF42 for instance... that was supposed to be Anheim's street to street lumped up with the armoured advance!!

A map like El Alamein, although very scaled will probably do fine because its as huge as it is, any larger would make it a war sim - So such scales are acceptable as they are as close to 1:1 as is reasonable - Moreso because they allow all factors to bear, air, tanks, infantry and artillery as I can imagine will have been experience in the real thing

I suppose that's the determining factor, the ability to get all factors to bear and in a way that they really should - If a real battle was massive, air support shouldn't be so readilly available i.e the map should either be huge enough to make ground targets far apart or airplanes should be greatly limited....

I think FH2 has learnt alot from FH1 - Even then, a map like Foy was alot less scaled than say, a converted DICE map... And the effect was - and IS, obvious.... Its more immersive

It takes some real game development and project management to make this happen for every single map, be it scaled or unscaled i.e 1:1... These devs are doing a hell of a job



Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Moose on 22-08-2009, 02:08:24
Im glad somebody decided to use a dice map and just beef it up. I am sure it's faster. I wish you guys would just port all bf2 maps just to add them, increase playability.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 22-08-2009, 02:08:53
I think he did more than "just beefing it up". I think we're talking 90% new statics here as well as new textures and changes to the heightmap to fit trenches etc...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 22-08-2009, 02:08:15
Only the heightmap is used, everything else you see is by FH2! EVERYTHING ELSE
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Torenico on 22-08-2009, 04:08:23
And for the first time, Dice made a good map
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [130.Pz]S.Tiemann on 22-08-2009, 09:08:20
Ive played the Original. It was the best armoured map in the game.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 22-08-2009, 12:08:52
I think ALOT of Dice maps are fine - Don't forget they were made for a specific type of game, one alot more arcade than FH fans will like, but it serves its purpose and there are still many satisfied customers - Many more, I will say, than FH fans

Sure, only a few can be used for FH2's purposes - And hopefully fewer still will ever be used to this end, afterall, that's why its called a 'total conversion' mod
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 22-08-2009, 15:08:52
And for the first time, Dice made a good map

DICE maps are not bad at all tbh. Many of them are really well designed and quite detailed.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: 2ACR Kernel on 22-08-2009, 20:08:48
Congrats to the Devs and the Beta testers on a job well done . The fun factor you guys have achieved with the balance of gameplay and realism is astounding .
I hope we will see more maps with planes in the future . I think they really add to the gameplay (even if they are targeting my tank) .
I also hope you will do a map of the Battle of Hurtgen Forest . One of the  comments I often hear is that Zelona Gora was a great map . In doing some research on the actions involving the US 9th Infantry Division I was surprised to find a great similarity between the Zelona Gora map and the the area around Schmidt , Germany .
Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: azn_chopsticks_boi on 22-08-2009, 20:08:34
In time, hopefully this release will be even more badass  ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 22-08-2009, 22:08:55
I also hope you will do a map of the Battle of Hurtgen Forest . One of the  comments I often hear is that Zelona Gora was a great map . In doing some research on the actions involving the US 9th Infantry Division I was surprised to find a great similarity between the Zelona Gora map and the the area around Schmidt , Germany .

Another is Deadman's moor... Can't recall the German name... but with arty pounding everything, that map is pretty sweet also...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Darren01 on 22-08-2009, 22:08:34
I also hope you will do a map of the Battle of Hurtgen Forest .

yeah, me too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F35gfQeGxs&feature=related
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Sparks on 23-08-2009, 02:08:48
I also hope you will do a map of the Battle of Hurtgen Forest .

yeah, me too


Snap!!

I was thinking the same thing the other day.



Great movie BTW, well I think anyway.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cadyshack on 23-08-2009, 02:08:44
Hurtgen Forest was in one of the official Map Packs for FH1, iirc.

US push into the forest (with bunkers and such as a defensive line for the Germans), then something like one or two flags behind that still in the forest, then the last flag in a town up north.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 23-08-2009, 10:08:57
Todtenbrüch

(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/images/news/158%20-%20Todtenbruch_loadscreen.jpg)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: 508th PIR Hawkeye on 23-08-2009, 12:08:12
We all know those mappacks don't work, when released mappack should be added to the next build.

*Oh how I loved those FH 0.7 loadingscreens  :'( *
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: LtJimmy on 23-08-2009, 12:08:14
Great update guys.
My guess is a release date of the 1st - 3rd September for obvious reasons (70th Anniversary of the start of WW2)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-08-2009, 13:08:21
Great update guys.
My guess is a release date of the 1st - 3rd September for obvious reasons (70th Anniversary of the start of WW2)
Might be a possible. but we're still missing 2 vital units for the Americanos

A artillery piece
A truck
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 23-08-2009, 13:08:49
Yes, Flippy... I was refering to Todtenbrüchearlier... Lovely map... Not sure how it plays in MP, but in SP, with those lobing 88s and costant arty fire, it was murder! Loved the intensity... with spliters from tress flying ever which wat... and it appears FH2 tress provide a bit better cover than those skinny things from FH1 - Maybe a lack in splinters, but here we have folliage and birds, no?

I'm not sure we should expect anything other than the release date, TheTA0123... Don't forget the types of maps that exist for the Americans... And what the devs said about models depending on maps to accomodate them

The Americans are in:
Luttich - Only map that may employ American tanks, let alone artillery
Purple Heart lane
and Point du Hoc... No need for armour or allied arty in any of those last 2... So expect the largest BANG being caused by American mortars

About the G4MC, That usually can be found in major conquest maps - In Luttich, it appears the Americans are defending, so very unlikely there too.. I think we've seen all we would before release... Not a bad thing, when you think about the implications :-)

Sure wish I can get my rig up before then - Its been almost 4months without a good PC

About the realism rating for each map - Can anyone link me to where the North African maps were rated according to their percentage true-to-life-ness?


Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Turkletoon on 23-08-2009, 15:08:56

It depends how you count really. If you do not take into consideration the vehicles and the soldiers (there are placeholders in 2.2), then I would list the maps as being:
Pointe Du Hoc - 100% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=49.394329,-0.988641&spn=0.012765,0.027595&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Pointe%20du%20Hoc/Minimap.jpg))
Purple Heart Lane - 100% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=49.3188,-1.263084&spn=0.025569,0.055189&z=14) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Purple%20Heart%20Lane/minimap.jpg))
Lebisey - 100% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=49.21457,-0.340104&spn=0.012811,0.027595&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Lebisey/minimap.jpg))
Operation Goodwood -90% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.147356,-0.258179&spn=0.051315,0.110378&t=p&z=13) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Goodwood/minimap.jpg))
Operation Totalize - 5% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Mortain&sll=48.748945,-1.021729&sspn=1.655198,3.532104&ie=UTF8&ll=49.066219,-0.300751&spn=0.102798,0.220757&t=p&z=12) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Totalize/minimap.jpg))
Operation Lüttich - 30% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Mortain&sll=48.748945,-1.021729&sspn=1.655198,3.532104&ie=UTF8&ll=48.648392,-0.938644&spn=0.012957,0.027595&t=p&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Operation%20Luttich/minimap.jpg))
Falaise Pocket - 85% accurate (Google Map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=48.816811,0.076132&spn=0.012914,0.027595&z=15) minimap (http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Falaise%20Pocket/minimap.jpg))

Apart from Lüttich and Totalize, all maps are very accurate. Much more so than any of the Africa maps. They are nearly all exact copies of the actual terrain with the correct scale. (Which is why none of them has planes, they simply wouldn't fit.)

Is it this you are looking for?

About seeing the release the 1 September,
I highly doubt that we will see it then, that's in just 1 and a half weeks. Remember we must have the "road to 2.2" first. It's possible that they announces the release date on that day.

We can always hope
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 23-08-2009, 16:08:33
The 'road to' has never been a weekly event... Unless I'm mistaken it was pretty much a daily affair until the release... And for me, once that starts, FH2.2 is already out :-)

... and erm, no I was referring to the North African and Cretan maps...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Eat Uranium on 23-08-2009, 16:08:47
The 'road to' has never been a weekly event... Unless I'm mistaken it was pretty much a daily affair until the release... And for me, once that starts, FH2.2 is already out :-)
Going on the last 3 releases, the first Raod to... will give the release date (which will be a Friday).  The second Road to... will be on the wednesday beforehand and will have the PW torrents.  There will probably be a third Road to... on the thursday, followed by the release on the friday.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lightning on 23-08-2009, 16:08:08
Contrary to previous releases however, we have already shown nearly everything that will be in 2.2, so there isn't enough stuff left to make 3 updates.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Turkletoon on 23-08-2009, 16:08:41
ah ok, I don't think I've seen that list.
but don't they usually release a passworded file like a week in advance? I don't know, maybe I'm mistaken my self  :-\

I just remember how it was for fh42, I was out of the country on all the fh2 releases and missed all those "road to"  >:(

hopefully I'll catch this one, I've just started to study at the university and the upcoming first two weeks is always filled with a lot of alcohol themed parties  :P
So if I can stay sober for the release day I'll be there playing.

edit: by the way, any ideas on how big the release file will be? Patch, full release or both?

Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 23-08-2009, 17:08:09
ah ok, I don't think I've seen that list.
but don't they usually release a passworded file like a week in advance? I don't know, maybe I'm mistaken my self  :-\

I just remember how it was for fh42, I was out of the country on all the fh2 releases and missed all those "road to"  >:(

hopefully I'll catch this one, I've just started to study at the university and the upcoming first two weeks is always filled with a lot of alcohol themed parties  :P
So if I can stay sober for the release day I'll be there playing.

edit: by the way, any ideas on how big the release file will be? Patch, full release or both?


Im no expert, but 7 maps plus all the additions that normandy brings would probably put the patch probably on the 1.5-2Gb mark (depending on the compression). the full build however, will be quite a bit larger  :P
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Turkletoon on 23-08-2009, 17:08:14
If my memory service me right, I think I've read something about only releasing a full download just so they don't have problems with broken patches. But don't quote me on that, my memory is not what it just to be  :-[
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Sagal on 23-08-2009, 17:08:56
This is far by the best bday gift I got :D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Die Happy on 23-08-2009, 17:08:46
If my memory service me right, I think I've read something about only releasing a full download just so they don't have problems with broken patches. But don't quote me on that, my memory is not what it just to be  :-[

i think it is not sure yet if there will be a patch or just a full release (which will be ther in any case of course)

time will tell.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 23-08-2009, 17:08:19
This is far by the best bday gift I got :D

don't pull out the champaign just yet... We haven't yet pinpointed an exact week, let alone day

Again, about that list of North African and Cretan maps with their realism factors?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [CHN]Harrier on 23-08-2009, 18:08:55
Contrary to previous releases however, we have already shown nearly everything that will be in 2.2, so there isn't enough stuff left to make 3 updates.

So wiil you dev team just keep silent on news updates for a couple of weeks till the release?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lightning on 23-08-2009, 18:08:14
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: SJonni on 23-08-2009, 18:08:43
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

More flamethrowers, heck yes :D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 23-08-2009, 18:08:40
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

No truck for the Ami? Then again, they won't need them on PdH and PHL, and they're on the defensive on Lüttich
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [CHN]Harrier on 23-08-2009, 18:08:12
Uhm..........So, no american aircraft included in 2.2, either?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lightning on 23-08-2009, 18:08:59
The Americans have no room for planes on their maps, so no.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tedacious on 23-08-2009, 19:08:31
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

No truck for the Ami? Then again, they won't need them on PdH and PHL, and they're on the defensive on Lüttich
also, placeholders has been mentioned.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tiny on 23-08-2009, 19:08:19
I love the fact that there is serious talk about release dates and torrents.  ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Taikasaapas on 23-08-2009, 19:08:07
Sorry for this. I know it is annoying question but will the 2.2 be realesed within 30 days or more? Or is it too close to call... :D. I will be happy if you could just give an estimation in months timeframe.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lightning on 23-08-2009, 19:08:59
We are at the moment not making any official comments regarding a possible releasedate.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: [ret]azreal on 23-08-2009, 19:08:44
We are at the moment not making any official comments regarding a possible releasedate.

With the exception of the release week, do we ever?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Torenico on 23-08-2009, 19:08:44
Now me and my Panther has something to fear, the M4A1(76)W...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 23-08-2009, 20:08:40
That puny thing? How about the mighty 17 pounder of the Fireflies :p
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-08-2009, 20:08:09
Now me and my Panther has something to fear, the M4A1(76)W...
Only the side armor my friend. Unless the M4A1 76 has special ammo, nothing to fear.   But the gun has a far higher velocity then the regular sherman, so it will require much less time to aim at you.


Just fear the Firefly and Achilles.
Fear it.NOW
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: corsair89 on 23-08-2009, 21:08:37
About the realism rating for each map - Can anyone link me to where the North African maps were rated according to their percentage true-to-life-ness?

http://forums.filefront.com/fh-off-topic/378757-picture-day-77.html#post4706925 (http://forums.filefront.com/fh-off-topic/378757-picture-day-77.html#post4706925)

 ;)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 23-08-2009, 22:08:09
thanks for the list... Interesting... It seems like a trend - The most interesting are the most historically accurate

Hope Totalize is the exception, it just looks so-o-o pretty!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Alakazou on 23-08-2009, 23:08:45
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

More flamethrowers, heck yes :D

 ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 24-08-2009, 00:08:19
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

More flamethrowers, heck yes :D

 ;D
Mmm...flamethrowers, cant wait to use them  ;D

Now me and my Panther has something to fear, the M4A1(76)W...
I think the 76mm Sherman will be further down the list of your worries my friend  ;)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 24-08-2009, 11:08:18

Mmm...flamethrowers, cant wait to use them  ;D

I wonder if it'll be in the first release.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 24-08-2009, 11:08:42
Considering it was shown long ago, I bet it will be.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kev4000 on 24-08-2009, 12:08:00

Mmm...flamethrowers, cant wait to use them  ;D

I wonder if it'll be in the first release.

Yeah, they will. Where I'm not saying though.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 24-08-2009, 12:08:40
I suppose they are pickup kits and not limited selection kits then?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: elander on 24-08-2009, 12:08:52
I suppose they are pickup kits and not limited selection kits then?

yea.. most likely ;) awesome though :)

Like in fh1 pickup-kits :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Moku on 24-08-2009, 12:08:28
At last final map revealed! This means that release is imminent. Now you got me all excited. :D

I like the look Totalize alot. Absolutely awesome work Fenring and Toddel (Fenring is supreme god of tank maps!). I don't really care if it may not be totally accurate as long it plays well.  :)

Ohh and nice to see that you have made Pointe du Hoc so special with addition of Termiitti grenade.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: General_Henry on 24-08-2009, 12:08:46
btw, I think there are enough stuffs for some awesome fanmaps to appear.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 24-08-2009, 13:08:01
wow, wow - Hold on there, slugger... The material for such things can only exist once 2.2 is out... Until then its labeled 'top secret' like everything else

Not a bad thing too - Otherwise,we'd have fanmaps that play VERY different from the way FH2 Normandy will play. It's nice for people to get a feel for the gameplay of 2.2 first before they did in... AND it makes the period between 2.2 and 2.whatever is next the more interesting

Personally, I was very impressed with the increase in fanmaps that came out after 2.1 and 2.15 - It seems that niche is flourishing nicely.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Priestdk on 24-08-2009, 13:08:10
Flamethrowers :P i love that bloody thing, you guys are in for a bloody threet i ran around alone burning evrything on a map for more then 1 houer, first time i tryied it. there is no other way to send people to hell then using the flames of hell to cleanse there soules first. ;) There is no escaping.

Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kubador on 24-08-2009, 13:08:42
Flamethrowers :P i love that bloody thing, you guys are in for a bloody threet i ran around alone burning evrything on a map for more then 1 houer, first time i tryied it. there is no other way to send people to hell then using the flames of hell to cleanse there soules first. ;) There is no escaping.

Next time check if you won't spoil any surprises or you can tell them accidently about the maus.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 24-08-2009, 13:08:11
I caught a documentary yesterday where they demonstrated the use of ancient bycantine flame-throwers. It was almost surreal, imagining soldiers in old armor and stuff running around with flamethrowers.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Moku on 24-08-2009, 14:08:44
Was it by chance this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aph-3zEacuw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aph-3zEacuw&feature=related)
It is indeed quite remarkable to imagine something like that happening so long ago. :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 24-08-2009, 14:08:58
Actually, it was a German program, but they reused much of the footage (for example the chap with the flamethrower)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tedacious on 24-08-2009, 14:08:27
I caught a documentary yesterday where they demonstrated the use of ancient bycantine flame-throwers. It was almost surreal, imagining soldiers in old armor and stuff running around with flamethrowers.
Guess you've never played medieval 2 total war :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxnxieffejI
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 24-08-2009, 14:08:27
I caught a documentary yesterday where they demonstrated the use of ancient bycantine flame-throwers. It was almost surreal, imagining soldiers in old armor and stuff running around with flamethrowers.
Guess you've never played medieval 2 total war :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxnxieffejI

As a matter of fact I have, but I think the flamethrowers were added in an addon. The facts in the documentary were not new to me, it still remains weird and fantastic.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tedacious on 24-08-2009, 14:08:27
I caught a documentary yesterday where they demonstrated the use of ancient bycantine flame-throwers. It was almost surreal, imagining soldiers in old armor and stuff running around with flamethrowers.
Guess you've never played medieval 2 total war :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxnxieffejI

As a matter of fact I have, but I think the flamethrowers were added in an addon. The facts in the documentary were not new to me, it still remains weird and fantastic.
(ah yes, I was certain that you've been in on one of the many TW discussions), yes it was probably added in the expansion Kingdoms I guess...
But you speak the truth, the fact is very fascinating and weird at the same time!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 24-08-2009, 14:08:48
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Hand-siphon_for_Greek_fire%2C_medieval_illumination.jpg/800px-Hand-siphon_for_Greek_fire%2C_medieval_illumination.jpg)

They invented flamethrowers but couldn't draw them for shit
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Thorondor123 on 24-08-2009, 14:08:43
Flamethrowers AND to have viking axemen for the emperor's bodyguard unit. That's pretty cool.

Almost as cool as flamethrowers in FH2 o/
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 24-08-2009, 14:08:47
Can we have Viking axemen in FH2?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ts4EVER on 24-08-2009, 14:08:47
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/b/b8/Technoviking_obey02.jpg/383px-Technoviking_obey02.jpg)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tedacious on 24-08-2009, 16:08:35
Can we have Viking axemen in FH2?
I second that!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: HappyFunBall on 24-08-2009, 19:08:45
Yes, Flippy... I was refering to Todtenbrüchearlier... Lovely map... Not sure how it plays in MP, but in SP, with those lobing 88s and costant arty fire, it was murder! Loved the intensity... with spliters from tress flying ever which wat...

As I recall it was mostly fun, but a little unstable. I believe it was bugged in that it was a push map, but it was possible to cap the flags in the wrong order, thereby rendering all flags uncapable.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ionizer on 24-08-2009, 19:08:35
It was bugged because there were two flags that could be capped at the same time (both labeled 3, or something).  It was common that the entire US army would attack one of them head on, while the entire German army would attack from the other one to the undefended previous flag, and both flags would be capped almost simultaneously, thus breaking the map because no other flag could be capped.

Luckily, the Push code in FH2 is more lenient when things like this happen.  I've yet to see any map (even the complicated Push on the two Tobruk maps) be irreparably broken because two flags have been capped simultaneously (it happened very often in FH1).
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Schneider on 25-08-2009, 01:08:36
We are at the moment not making any official comments regarding a possible releasedate.

With the exception of the release week, do we ever?

Nope, two weeks later. During that time, we all who already have it play on hslan, laughing at you guys searching the whole internet for the 2.2 patch.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Torenico on 25-08-2009, 06:08:02
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

More flamethrowers, heck yes :D

 ;D
Mmm...flamethrowers, cant wait to use them  ;D

Now me and my Panther has something to fear, the M4A1(76)W...
I think the 76mm Sherman will be further down the list of your worries my friend  ;)

Haha, maybe, lets see that when Normandy is out :D


Hmm, i am crazy or... in the pic Totalize6.jpg theres 2 versions of the Tiger, Early production and Late Production?.. they have 2 different skins.


2 Tigers... WOOT!
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 25-08-2009, 07:08:07
Those skins were released when the newer Tiger was shown some time back - Like most tanks, the Shermna 76mm, etc the Tiger seems to have more than one look is all - The 2 are simple variants of the same thing... I guess they could have used the same skin, but it makes it more interesting to have slight variations, give each tanker a character
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 25-08-2009, 08:08:58
Well, there are one or two things we haven't shown yet ;)

(No... Not the 105mm howitzer or the GMC truck, they're not in 2.2...)

More flamethrowers, heck yes :D

 ;D
Mmm...flamethrowers, cant wait to use them  ;D

Now me and my Panther has something to fear, the M4A1(76)W...
I think the 76mm Sherman will be further down the list of your worries my friend  ;)

Haha, maybe, lets see that when Normandy is out :D


Hmm, i am crazy or... in the pic Totalize6.jpg theres 2 versions of the Tiger, Early production and Late Production?.. they have 2 different skins.


2 Tigers... WOOT!
There are 3 skins for Tiger late, all 3 shown. One in the Germany vehicle section and other two in Totalize6.jpg.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fenring on 25-08-2009, 09:08:00
Its actually a Wittmann "222" camo especialy for totalize and villers bocage by FatJoe/Toddel  ;D

(http://www.notatoy.com/images/products/60132_wittmann_222_and_60153_t34.jpg)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: DLFReporter on 25-08-2009, 09:08:05
Ace Wittmann... lol his gunner did all the work and Wittmann gets to be the Ace... pfff
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 25-08-2009, 10:08:55
That's how it worked in the German army as I recall it. If a tank did well, the commander got the praise.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: DLFReporter on 25-08-2009, 10:08:50
That's how it worked in the German army as I recall it. If a tank did well, the commander got the praise.

It's how every army works. ;)

An off topic quote from Terry P. nicely shows another facet of the military. ^^
Quote
The consensus seemed to be that if really large numbers of men were sent to storm the mountain, then enough might survive the rocks to take the citadel. This is essentially the basis of all military thinking.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 25-08-2009, 10:08:55
I think it was Gen. Zukov who said 'When our men meet a minefield, they approach it as through the mines weren't there - The casualties from mines we see as acceptable had those fields been defended by stronger defesese like machineguns and men'

Its all about cold-blooded arithmetic and logistics - Like maneouvering under fire, alot of probabilty @ the risk of losing your life - Kinda why soldiers are not encourages to question orders - you need to know you are part of the system, just as expendible... Kinda wonder why modern media doesn't quite get it going about making modern warfare such a political quagmire... as though the good side should never take casualties


But back on topic, that's pretty cool - So we actualy got a hero tank on the battlefield - Gotta love the devs' sense of fun - Did he ever etch or paint his number of kills on his tank? Will be interesting to have that if it were there - Besides, I don't think all the credit is the gunners, he follows orders and the tactics employed are Witmman's...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 25-08-2009, 11:08:06
That's how it worked in the German army as I recall it. If a tank did well, the commander got the praise.

It's how every army works. ;)

In the Finnish army the gunner was awarded.

But I know what you mean :P
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Incarnadine on 25-08-2009, 14:08:29
Looks great, can't wait! ;D
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Smiles on 25-08-2009, 14:08:35
I think it was Gen. Zukov who said 'When our men meet a minefield, they approach it as through the mines weren't there - The casualties from mines we see as acceptable had those fields been defended by stronger defesese like machineguns and men'

Its all about cold-blooded arithmetic and logistics - Like maneouvering under fire, alot of probabilty @ the risk of losing your life - Kinda why soldiers are not encourages to question orders - you need to know you are part of the system, just as expendible... Kinda wonder why modern media doesn't quite get it going about making modern warfare such a political quagmire... as though the good side should never take casualties


But back on topic, that's pretty cool - So we actualy got a hero tank on the battlefield - Gotta love the devs' sense of fun - Did he ever etch or paint his number of kills on his tank? Will be interesting to have that if it were there - Besides, I don't think all the credit is the gunners, he follows orders and the tactics employed are Witmman's...

Yea lets continue off topic, you seem to know wich side is good, tell me mate
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: vic fontaine on 25-08-2009, 17:08:15
I think it was Gen. Zukov who said 'When our men meet a minefield, they approach it as through the mines weren't there - The casualties from mines we see as acceptable had those fields been defended by stronger defesese like machineguns and men'

The Soviets are a bit of a special case in that regard. When attacking, some commanders would fine out how many machine guns the germans had, multiply that by how many bullets they could fire in the time it'd take to walk from the starting position to their trench, and field that many men, plus a couple thousand for good measure :p.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 25-08-2009, 20:08:15
Commanders get the praise because they choose the targets, they give the orders for the tank, the tank's manuveres, etc....  The crew just carry out his orders.  HOWEVER, if a gunner became a tank commander, any of the kills he made were automatically given to his score, Kurt Knispel being a great example of this.  Also, tank crews were normally awarded medals all round, so in Wittman's case, everyone had up to the Iron Cross 1st class, and he and his gunner held the Knights Cross.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: djinn on 25-08-2009, 20:08:38
see, there is justice in the word after all... back on topic...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Biiviz on 25-08-2009, 21:08:37
Now that I think about it, my statement might be wrong. I seem to recall reading about it in some book but I'm really uncertain. Disregard my earlier post for now.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 25-08-2009, 22:08:57
You are actually correct Biiviz, in the Finnish army, the gunner did get tank destruction badges for anti-tank guns and stugs, as well as faust, schreck, and other handheld weapons:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=4032
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: LtJimmy on 26-08-2009, 04:08:50
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9247/img004w.jpg)
The name's Wittman. Michael Wittman. 8)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 26-08-2009, 07:08:35
(http://www.heroautographs.com/uploads/pics/carius-rk_02.jpg)

Hey Wittmann, I'm Otto Carius.


I'm also a Tiger ace. I got between 50 and 100 more tank kills then you, served on the Ostfront for almost the entire war, was in the Wehrmacht, am still alive today, wrote the book Tigers in the Mud, and run a pharmacy called Tigerapotheke.

Why does no one know about me or care about me?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-08-2009, 07:08:27
Cause the Nazi Propaganda dismissed him, since he wasn't part of the SS?
And he fought on the 'unimportant' front. (at least from the American perspective). ^^
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 26-08-2009, 07:08:39
Nah, german propaganda loved Carius too.  My feeling is that its because Wittmann has his famous incident at Villers Bocage, and not much else.  Many seem to believe that his 25-30 or so kills at Villers were all tanks (I believe around 15 of the kills were trucks and APC, ie, defenseless vehicles), and most people forget that shortly after the engagement, he managed to get himself, another Tiger, and a Panzer 4 knocked out when he charged headlong into the actual village, and lost all 3 tanks to British 6lbers.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Torenico on 26-08-2009, 08:08:17
and how about Kurt Knispel?

Almost 195 Kills....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Knispel
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 26-08-2009, 08:08:16
Yep, probably the most forgotten, and yet probably the top tank ace of all time (Carius's score is in question, it could be upwards of 200 according to some newer sources).  And don't forget Johannes Bolter....
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: LtJimmy on 26-08-2009, 08:08:17
Re: VMudra

My quote "The name's Wittman. Michael Wittman." is a play on the fact that his tank has 007 on it. I'm well aware of Otto Carius and his exploits, although I was not aware that he is still alive.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 26-08-2009, 09:08:32
Haha, I know, and I bet that you knew Carius, but I know a lot of the newbies on here have no clue that Wittmann was by far not the greatest tanks ;)

I did not however notice the 007 part oddly enough xD  Nice one :)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 26-08-2009, 11:08:12
Its a shame that these tank aces have all been mostly forgotten about, in comparison to all the other tank aces, Wittman was an arrogant, delusional person, and somewhat of a fool.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Smiles on 26-08-2009, 12:08:31
dont forget german
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 26-08-2009, 13:08:05
Its a shame that these tank aces have all been mostly forgotten about, in comparison to all the other tank aces, Wittman was an arrogant, delusional person, and somewhat of a fool.
But he got the job done. I'm not defending him nor hating him. He is just a populized figure that gets alot of honour while obviously his gunner made the kills, he led the tank to that situation, right? He wasn't a retard or something.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 26-08-2009, 13:08:29
Its a shame that these tank aces have all been mostly forgotten about, in comparison to all the other tank aces, Wittman was an arrogant, delusional person, and somewhat of a fool.
But he got the job done. I'm not defending him nor hating him. He is just a populized figure that gets alot of honour while obviously his gunner made the kills, he led the tank to that situation, right? He wasn't a retard or something.
Oh no, he was far from retarded, and no doubt that he has an effective tanker. But from what ive read about him, he was bold, so bold that it was on the verge on the delusional, and in the end it cost him his life (then again, he was only in that engagement because he viewed the company commander as 'not experienced enough').
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Captain Pyjama Shark on 26-08-2009, 14:08:34

Hey Wittmann, I'm Otto Carius.


I'm also a Tiger ace. I got between 50 and 100 more tank kills then you, served on the Ostfront for almost the entire war, was in the Wehrmacht, am still alive today, wrote the book Tigers in the Mud, and run a pharmacy called Tigerapotheke.

Why does no one know about me or care about me?
Haha, Tigerapotheke, that's pretty cool.  I will have to remember to go there if I'm ever in Germany.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 26-08-2009, 19:08:58
Its a shame that these tank aces have all been mostly forgotten about, in comparison to all the other tank aces, Wittman was an arrogant, delusional person, and somewhat of a fool.
But he got the job done. I'm not defending him nor hating him. He is just a populized figure that gets alot of honour while obviously his gunner made the kills, he led the tank to that situation, right? He wasn't a retard or something.
Oh no, he was far from retarded, and no doubt that he has an effective tanker. But from what ive read about him, he was bold, so bold that it was on the verge on the delusional, and in the end it cost him his life (then again, he was only in that engagement because he viewed the company commander as 'not experienced enough').


Yep, I agree.  He fully believed the propaganda, and let it go to his head, which led to his suicidal charge at Villers (which almost cost him his life, and the lives of 3 tank crews), and the charge that led to his death.  Also, don't forget he was a loyal SS and party member.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 26-08-2009, 20:08:18
Its a shame that these tank aces have all been mostly forgotten about, in comparison to all the other tank aces, Wittman was an arrogant, delusional person, and somewhat of a fool.
But he got the job done. I'm not defending him nor hating him. He is just a populized figure that gets alot of honour while obviously his gunner made the kills, he led the tank to that situation, right? He wasn't a retard or something.
Oh no, he was far from retarded, and no doubt that he has an effective tanker. But from what ive read about him, he was bold, so bold that it was on the verge on the delusional, and in the end it cost him his life (then again, he was only in that engagement because he viewed the company commander as 'not experienced enough').


Yep, I agree.  He fully believed the propaganda, and let it go to his head, which led to his suicidal charge at Villers (which almost cost him his life, and the lives of 3 tank crews), and the charge that led to his death.  Also, don't forget he was a loyal SS and party member.
Exactly what I was going to say, he was in the SS, a loyal one at that. The guy was delusional. It sort of figures really...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Tedacious on 26-08-2009, 21:08:52
Its a shame that these tank aces have all been mostly forgotten about, in comparison to all the other tank aces, Wittman was an arrogant, delusional person, and somewhat of a fool.
But he got the job done. I'm not defending him nor hating him. He is just a populized figure that gets alot of honour while obviously his gunner made the kills, he led the tank to that situation, right? He wasn't a retard or something.
Oh no, he was far from retarded, and no doubt that he has an effective tanker. But from what ive read about him, he was bold, so bold that it was on the verge on the delusional, and in the end it cost him his life (then again, he was only in that engagement because he viewed the company commander as 'not experienced enough').


Yep, I agree.  He fully believed the propaganda, and let it go to his head, which led to his suicidal charge at Villers (which almost cost him his life, and the lives of 3 tank crews), and the charge that led to his death.  Also, don't forget he was a loyal SS and party member.
Therein lies something that may be called retardness.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 26-08-2009, 21:08:12
Easy to say that in 2009 Ted.. Wonder what you would have done in Nazi Germany around 1940.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 26-08-2009, 22:08:34
Yep, hindsight is 20/20....
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Smiles on 27-08-2009, 13:08:30
Hindsight 20/20? lol i thought there was a reason for beginning a court against warcriminals
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fearbefore. on 27-08-2009, 19:08:01
It's definitely fair to say Wittman was at least ballsy and arrogant, probably just a bit too much so for his own good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe at the time he was killed he had given orders to drive straight through an open field without even checking the forests/trees lining the field, trees which, as it so happened, held Sherman Fireflies?
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 27-08-2009, 19:08:13
Yes, he did. :)

@ Smiles:  Wittmann wasn't a war criminal....=/  IN fact, the majority of nazi party members weren't.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: G.Drew on 27-08-2009, 19:08:37
He made several mistakes which cost him, key of which being:
Not gathering intelligence before hand.
Charged straight into enemy held territory with an exposed flank.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lobo on 28-08-2009, 13:08:04
Wittmann wasn't a war criminal....=/  IN fact, the majority of nazi party members weren't.

'09 Comedy Post of the Year

I have heard hilarious statements in my life, but this for sure earns the World and Olympic Records


Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Kelmola on 28-08-2009, 15:08:29
Wittmann wasn't a war criminal....=/  IN fact, the majority of nazi party members weren't.

'09 Comedy Post of the Year

I have heard hilarious statements in my life, but this for sure earns the World and Olympic Records
While the Nazi party was judged to be a criminal organization, and therefore, members were considered to be criminals as well, most of them were never punished for explicit criminal activity or war crimes, just for supporting the ideology. In fact, most Party members were considered to have been "hang-arounds" (Mitläufer) at the most and were declared "denazified" soon after. The party leaders, agitators, etc. were a different case and were judged accordingly, but they were in the minority even among the former party members.

In the Third Reich, joining the Nazi party was not a particular political statement. It was something most did just to fit in with the crowd, to be able to get promotions or to be hired as civil servants, NOT because they wanted to put Generalplan Ost into action or something like that. Compare to this: in our age and society, if you're a member of a trade union, it does not necessarily mean that you are a die-hard Communist. (Some might be, but most are not.)
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Fuchs on 28-08-2009, 15:08:46
Wittmann wasn't a war criminal....=/  IN fact, the majority of nazi party members weren't.

'09 Comedy Post of the Year

I have heard hilarious statements in my life, but this for sure earns the World and Olympic Records



Well.. It's how you look at it Lobo. Before 'dem Natsi's' being elected you had the Nazi Party with people wanting change who paid a montly fee to assist their political club. Those are also members and I'm sure not all of them are criminals. But if you look at it like the people who led Germany, those are all bad guys.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lobo on 28-08-2009, 15:08:56
Yes guys, I was not talking from a legal point of view, it's from a moral one.

Directly or indirectly, because he or she truly believed in that ideology or was forced by the circunstances, a member of NSDAP was a piece in the crime machine that caused the Shoa and a world war with 50 millions as death toll.

In any case this is not the off-topic forum, I don't want to derail more the thread. I know VonMudra wanted to mean another point, but his sentence is pure surrealism.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 28-08-2009, 19:08:18
So basically Lobo, you're saying that the local Nazi party member in Osnabruck who helped post propaganda leaflets was a war criminal.  That's like saying that every communist party member in the USSR was a commisar and shot soldiers in the back.  Did they join and probably help spread an evil institution?  Yes.  But did they themselves commit the crimes?  Mostly, no.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Meadow on 28-08-2009, 20:08:15
Regardless of the status of the Nazi party, membership of the SS was itself ruled to be a war crime at Nuremberg. Not that I agree with that decision - Nuremberg to me is a massive betrayal of the ideals we apparently went to war to preserve - but it stands nonetheless. Judged at the end of the war, Wittman is a war criminal.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Lobo on 28-08-2009, 21:08:20
They were, in the best case scenario, complice of war crimes and crimes against mankind, yeah.

But as I've said let's not derail more a news thread
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Cory the Otter on 28-08-2009, 22:08:59
its too late. Someone has put the proverbial penny on the train tracks.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Ionizer on 28-08-2009, 22:08:06
its too late. Someone has put the proverbial penny on the train tracks.

Didn't somebody prove that doing that would never derail a train?

Wait, was that an episode of Pete and Pete?  I think they needed to "re-luck-ify" a lucky penny or something...
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: Smiles on 29-08-2009, 00:08:51
The troops are bored and are eager for entertainment.
Title: Re: Forgotten Hope News Update: 20th August 2009: Total War
Post by: VonMudra on 29-08-2009, 09:08:13
Giant photo is giant....