Author Topic: Killing through statics  (Read 2595 times)

Offline Ahonen

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Killing through statics
« on: 23-08-2010, 23:08:26 »
First part of this suggestion is a question: can arty HE shells kill through some statics, if very close to the point of impact (I haven't noticed if so)?
If not, here's the suggestion:

I often survive close misses from artillery because a small wall behind which I was prone saved me from the explosion, despite the shell falling 3 meters away at best. It may be interesting to make those shells able to kill through statics, something possible with the current engine, to make arty more effective against light cover and kill infantry hugging windows and doors in buildings.

(Edit: to avoid misunderstandings, I mean that the "kill through statics" effect should be restricted to a small radius around the point of impact, which can be done with engine-wise)
« Last Edit: 24-08-2010, 00:08:54 by Ahonen »
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Offline Mud Buddha

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #1 on: 24-08-2010, 00:08:37 »
Well, I've been killed countless times in places where I thought I was safe from HE explosives, and you want to make the damage even more substantial? *gasp* Besides, you might survive an arty shell that landed 3 mtrs away if you're behind a concrete wall. You'll probably be deaf the rest of your life but if the wall is thick enough to shield you from blast and debris, what else is gonna kill you? ;-)


But seriously, it's probably an engine thing.
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Offline Nerdsturm

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #2 on: 24-08-2010, 00:08:16 »
The hit detection is far from perfect on HE rounds, and if you're in a stationary mg or radio when a shell hits nearby you'll annoyingly die even if you're deep in a bunker. Still BF2 is a lot better than most games, and I rather have both a solid cement wall and a tent protect you rather than have neither one do so.

Offline Ahonen

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #3 on: 24-08-2010, 00:08:36 »
I didn''t mean the entire explosion should go through.
Only the first 2-3 meters in a radius around the point of impact should kill through statics.
And I don't see any wall (except those of bunkers) in the game that could protect you from a heavy arty shell falling so close. Of course destructible walls (which would be preferable) isn't an option, and this may be a way around this.

And it is possible, engine-wise, to cause an explosive to have two different effects (killing through statics and not).
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Offline Mud Buddha

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #4 on: 24-08-2010, 01:08:17 »
As much as I I'd like to see this happen from an offensive point of view I must admit that balance-wise I also kind of like that inside simply means inside in this game. In the scaled down gameworld you miss a lot of real-life sensory awareness and options that can keep you alive. Making the in-game effect of explosion more realistic (ie. deadlier) while at the same time doing nothing extra for the survivability of the "receiving side" simply unbalances a lot, gameplay wise.

So I'm good with how it is now :)
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Offline Ahonen

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #5 on: 24-08-2010, 01:08:55 »
As much as I I'd like to see this happen from an offensive point of view I must admit that balance-wise I also kind of like that inside simply means inside in this game. In the scaled down gameworld you miss a lot of real-life sensory awareness and options that can keep you alive. Making the in-game effect of explosion more realistic (ie. deadlier) while at the same time doing nothing extra for the survivability of the "receiving side" simply unbalances a lot, gameplay wise.

So I'm good with how it is now :)

But is 2-3 meters all that much?
It would prevent some weird situations and still allow you to survive in buildings, as long as you don't stick to walls.
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Offline [130.Pz]S.Lainer

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #6 on: 24-08-2010, 06:08:57 »
  It can be done.  I for one would love to see it!  The only problem I have with it is when I am hiding out in a concrete bunker and get killed by arty.
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Offline Flyboy1942

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #7 on: 24-08-2010, 06:08:22 »
Well, I've been killed countless times in places where I thought I was safe from HE explosives, and you want to make the damage even more substantial? *gasp* Besides, you might survive an arty shell that landed 3 mtrs away if you're behind a concrete wall. You'll probably be deaf the rest of your life but if the wall is thick enough to shield you from blast and debris, what else is gonna kill you? ;-)


But seriously, it's probably an engine thing.

Death by the shockwave pulverizing you?

Also, slightly on topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIF63jhRQcw

Offline Ahonen

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #8 on: 24-08-2010, 06:08:54 »
 It can be done.  I for one would love to see it!  The only problem I have with it is when I am hiding out in a concrete bunker and get killed by arty.

Depending on how large the "sure-kill" radius is, it could be short enough to avoid killing you through a bunker's thick walls. While the shockwave mentionned by Flyboy is an idea, I originaly thought of this to prevent unrealistic use of insufficient, light cover (waist-high stone walls, tents...) saving you from heavy arty shells falling next to you. In that, such cover would be blown away and wouldn't protect you at all, but the way statics and explosions are handled right now in the game, they do.

Edit:
Also, slightly on topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIF63jhRQcw

Give engineers this so they can bash APCs with it.
Also, express demining.
« Last Edit: 24-08-2010, 06:08:51 by Ahonen »
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Offline Natty

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #9 on: 24-08-2010, 08:08:40 »
This is BF2.. if I hide behind a cover I dont care if the texture is wood, concrete, planks, stones, bricks. I hide because I dont wanna get shot and the game will never exclude wood or planks and let the HE blast go through.... BC2 has destroyable environment, there you can blast a hole in a wall and expose the guy inside. In FH2 cover is cover, because the mapper placed it there as cover. And the players should feel safe behind it, from pistol, rifle, mg and explosions happening on the other side.

Offline NTH

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #10 on: 24-08-2010, 09:08:16 »
Does this mean we don't have any object which can be penetrated by bullets.
Iirc in BF2 some of the objects are not good hiding places because it can be penetrated by bullets, for example wooden fences.


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Offline DLFReporter

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #11 on: 24-08-2010, 10:08:38 »
Does this mean we don't have any object which can be penetrated by bullets.
Iirc in BF2 some of the objects are not good hiding places because it can be penetrated by bullets, for example wooden fences.

Canvases have no bullet collision, but everything else has.
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Offline [130.Pz]S.Lainer

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #12 on: 24-08-2010, 10:08:22 »
Yup sorry to say but FH2 fails with materials.  Many groovy things that could have been done but at this point it is way to much work.  The arty killing bit is still possible but I kinda agree with natty for the most part.  As much as I would like it I know 10 other people that would cry and whine.
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Offline Mud Buddha

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #13 on: 24-08-2010, 13:08:49 »
What Natty said. But with more words and weaker argumentation. Sorry, it was late last night, and I was not very un-sober. ;)
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Offline Ahonen

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Re: Killing through statics
« Reply #14 on: 24-08-2010, 15:08:34 »
the game will never exclude wood or planks and let the HE blast go through

No need to exclude them, since nothing in the game apart from bunkers, buildings and terrain (and tanks, but those are of course not not affected as non-statics) can protect you from an arty shell, and depending on how large the radius of the "kill-through-static" is, they'd be unnaffected as they should (unless you stick to walls in buildings as said before).

As for the cover put by mappers, I'm pretty sure the only cover they meant to be used as protection from arty is buildings, bunkers or trenches (terrain). The rest was probably put as cover for firefights (correct me if I'm wrong).
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