Questions about tanks

[VonMudra]

No no, this is only counting tanks, for both sides, that were knocked out by another tank.


Total tank losses in Normandy are about 4000 Allied and 2000 German from all causes.  The largest part of the allied losses is in fact due to hand held weapons (fausts/schrecks).

[PanzerKnacker]

and German from handheld AT, allied tanks, AT guns and artillery or due to bombing?

[VonMudra]

Mostly AT guns and tanks.  Aerial only was around 4% of all german tank losses.

[Tankbuster]

So freedom rokkits from the free west were a distracting sideshow at best?

[PanzerKnacker]

I ask because I read somewhere that the Panzer Lehr Division got crippled by allied airforce even before entering combat, so I presume that's those 4%, and it wasn't done by rockets but by bombs of not only Jabos but tactical bombers as well. Am I right?

[THeTA0123]

So freedom rokkits from the free west were a distracting sideshow at best?

only 0.6% were destroyed by rockets. They were an intimidating weapon and very effective against light-skinned columns

But for tanks, exept for light tanks, you needed a direct hit to destroy the tank

On the east front, this was higher, but also because the russians employed far more ground attack aircraft with rockets and heavily concentrated them

[Lightning]

I ask because I read somewhere that the Panzer Lehr Division got crippled by allied airforce even before entering combat, so I presume that's those 4%, and it wasn't done by rockets but by bombs of not only Jabos but tactical bombers as well. Am I right?

No, in fact, the entire front was carpet bombed by B17s and B24s of the 8th airforce.

http://books.google.nl/books?id=5AUPjaSkIqQC&lpg=PA1&pg=PT73#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Tankbuster]

B-24 was a sweet sweet plane.

[LuckyOne]

http://books.google.nl/books?id=5AUPjaSkIqQC&lpg=PA1&pg=PT73#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cool, didn't know that they secured Hebecrevon at midnight... Possible version of Cobra 32 taking place at night made in the future? 

[Turkish007]

That would be pretty neat!

[Zoologic]

So freedom rokkits from the free west were a distracting sideshow at best?

only 0.6% were destroyed by rockets. They were an intimidating weapon and very effective against light-skinned columns

But for tanks, exept for light tanks, you needed a direct hit to destroy the tank

On the east front, this was higher, but also because the russians employed far more ground attack aircraft with rockets and heavily concentrated them

I read somewhere that those music instruments can only penetrate 70 mm at 90 degree direct hit (M1). Barely the front armor thickness of late model Panzer IV like ausf. H and J.

[VonMudra]

That wasn't concerning since a tank has around 10-20mm top armour, which is what the rocket is prob going to hit.  The main thing was they were widely inaccuracte and could barely ever hit a target.  Since it needed a direct hit to destroy, it was duly rare.  They did create massive claim lists though, since pilots simply assumed that smoke clouds rising above the tank surely meant it was destroyed.

For example, during Operation Goodwood (18 to 21 July), the 2nd Tactical Air Force claimed 257 tanks destroyed.[nb 7] A total of 222 were claimed by Typhoon pilots using Rocket Projectiles.[34] Once the area was secured analysts could confirm only 10 out of the 456 German AFVs found in the area could be attributed to Typhoons using rocket projectiles.[34]

[Zoologic]

I mean the M1 Bazooka (music instrument), not the aerial rail launched rockets.

The rockets from planes, like the 60 lb rocket employed by the Typhoon fighter planes are fin stabilised, which gave it enough spin for a good 100-300 m straight before spiraling out of control. The accuracy itself:

In tests carried out by the A&AEE, dispersion (when aimed at a 20 ft square (1.858 sq m) target) was 13 ft 6 in (4.1 m) at 1,000 ft (305 m) range - equal to 3-4 degrees aiming error.

I imagine that 305 m in airplane terms to be quite fast. Not to mention that the pilots have to stay still after pressing the trigger to wait for the missile clearing the launch rail, otherwise screwing the trajectory. That will give him 4.1 m radius of error circle. I can understand its inaccuracy. But the Germans were said to fear this weapon very much, even the tankers. Were the explosions around the tanks frightening enough that they decided to bail the vehicle despite not being hit at all?

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

I mean the M1 Bazooka (music instrument), not the aerial rail launched rockets.

The rockets from planes, like the 60 lb rocket employed by the Typhoon fighter planes are fin stabilised, which gave it enough spin for a good 100-300 m straight before spiraling out of control. The accuracy itself:

In tests carried out by the A&AEE, dispersion (when aimed at a 20 ft square (1.858 sq m) target) was 13 ft 6 in (4.1 m) at 1,000 ft (305 m) range - equal to 3-4 degrees aiming error.

I imagine that 305 m in airplane terms to be quite fast. Not to mention that the pilots have to stay still after pressing the trigger to wait for the missile clearing the launch rail, otherwise screwing the trajectory. That will give him 4.1 m radius of error circle. I can understand its inaccuracy. But the Germans were said to fear this weapon very much, even the tankers. Were the explosions around the tanks frightening enough that they decided to bail the vehicle despite not being hit at all?

They talk about this in the book Tank Men (which is phenomenal and cheap, look on Amazon). Plane rockets were a massively effective psychological weapon, whatever actual damage they did. Imagine you're driving along a road in your tank and you just start to hear the whistling sound of Typhoon engine and you see it attack some of your guys a mile up the road from you, and when you get there you see one of the same tanks you're in overturned and burning, or blown apart, and there's pieces of bodies lying everywhere. You're just a poor schmuck drafted into the army, you don't know that rockets aren't accurate and you just saw the one in 50 rocket attacks that day that were successful. You're going to shit yourself every time you hear a plane engine.

One of the veterans in that book said (paraphrasing) that "Once you had seen a rocket plane attack up close, you felt as if every plane in the sky was out to destroy you. Every whistling bomb or rocket felt as though it was personally made just for you".

[VonMudra]

Also, it wasn't uncommon for the plane's guns to light something on fire on the outside of the tank (fuel can or cloth or such), which put smoke into the tank, causing the crew to bail, only to return to the tank after the attack when they realized it was ok.