French Hope

[Kwiot]

nobody? except most of the testers and devs

Stonne still has chance as it is the best of French Hope maps

That's what I mean... Nobody from "public" know them....

Well nobody from "public" has any say in the matter, so... It's up to the devs, and they knw a good map when they see one.

But really I want to know what are these standards when I want to make a new map...

[jan_kurator]

those standards you can see in most of official maps, especially in newest maps.

When you want to create your own map... well, first of all - you need a good idea for a map and its gameplay layout (flags etc). And obviously, good research of actual battle you want to represent. Compare your ideas to solutions existing in other official maps, don't try to be very innovative in gameplay and use proven gameplay mechanisms as it is very risky to trying to be a pioneer if you're not very experienced mapper and you may fail (you will have time for some experimentation during developement process which is very long and hard, especially outside dev/beta team when you don't have people to test your map)

Other important thing is to communicate with others, often more expierenced mappers/beta testers as they probably will know what to look for and will help you. It is important to get rid of some bugs at very beggining and better discuss some problems earlier than remaking half made map or scrap your project. Problem is that public forums may be not the best for good feedback. Big problem is also a straw enthusiasm or fact that some of your ideas may face opposition from more experienced guys (there are big chances that some have committed your mistakes in the past so it's good to listen "wiser" dudes)

I think that's all you need for a start. Then comes thousands of details and a lot of very time consuming work. At the end of course art work at some final touches about some help you can find in this thread:
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=574.0

oh, and the decalogue of mapper:
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/tutorials/mappingstandards.php

Cheers

[Kwiot]

So it's all about placing objects? Because everything from the decalogue was there...

[Krätzer]

Phone Natty he will explain to you what is wrong 

[Flippy Warbear]

Phone Natty he will explain to you what is wrong 

I dont think even the most masochistic person would dare to endure that kind of torture.

[Krätzer]

Phone Natty he will explain to you what is wrong 

I dont think even the most masochistic person would dare to endure that kind of torture.

But he is the only Dev who can anwser this Question!

Maybe also Knoffhoff but don´t think so.

[TuscanGangster]

Are you gonna create a whole new soldier model? Atleast I guess you're using french weapons as they're suppossedly done.

[CptdeS35]

Nope. The French Hope is doing (trying to do) the maps for FH2, but we are not a part of FH2 devs !
So we've no french stuff (except the panhard), no german 1940 stuff, no soldiers, no tents from 1940, no tanks, no planes...they will be added IF the map is in FH2 standards.

[sheikyerbouti]

 we always dance around the subject but with limited Dev team and small tester base, we limit opinion.
With limited opinion comes limited input and exceptional bias.  (thousands of players opinions negated by a couple dozen testers and Devs)

 The WaW naval maps are the best example in my opinion as they have worked well for years now but still haven't been graced with formal Fh2 acceptance. Maybe it is time to accept that the standards of the public are lower than those of the tightly knit and highly privileged Dev team.

 As pointed out by Capitaine S35, most the French hoper's quit because they were discouraged. How does one build a limited team up in numbers when those of us who can contribute are pushed away from the door before we get a chance to go inside? (based upon Azrael's recent statement of limited resources)


 As an Fh2 player since day 15, I can honestly recall how shitty some of the maps were but they still met the FH2 standard (of that time), so why have the goals been moved beyond the reach of the common man?


 Like I said, "it's Da Vinci saying to Michaelangelo that the Sistine chapel isn't good enough"

 

[[KamiKaze] Destroyer]

I agree. I wrote something simillar here.

[DLFReporter]

Actually another problem was that some people were quite resistant towards suggestions. This pared with a major communications problem and lack of time on the part of everyone made it sum up to quite a frustrating experience. It doesn't always end up like this and quite a few 'new' devs have proven that. Kettcar being one for example, coming from nothing with no experience, who listened to all the advice he got and who had worked his ass of for a year to make himself a good mapper.

I must really object, the Devs and us testers aren't the evil elitist group you make us out to be. Help is always wanted and accepted, perhaps it was wrong to invest so much manpower in making maps perfect and getting releases going, instead of investing the time in breeding more mappers, but that has happened and now we need help to find help. I see a lot of skill out there with all the fan mappers, they just have to apply and then listen to the advice and all is well. Sure some people might sound quite haughty (you all know who I mean), but you can still learn a lot once you see past that attitude.

Destroyer, you should apply, you have the stuff and as I gather the willpower to cope with the editor, you just need refinement.

[djinn]

we always dance around the subject but with limited Dev team and small tester base, we limit opinion.
With limited opinion comes limited input and exceptional bias.  (thousands of players opinions negated by a couple dozen testers and Devs)

 The WaW naval maps are the best example in my opinion as they have worked well for years now but still haven't been graced with formal Fh2 acceptance. Maybe it is time to accept that the standards of the public are lower than those of the tightly knit and highly privileged Dev team.

 As pointed out by Capitaine S35, most the French hoper's quit because they were discouraged. How does one build a limited team up in numbers when those of us who can contribute are pushed away from the door before we get a chance to go inside? (based upon Azrael's recent statement of limited resources)


 As an Fh2 player since day 15, I can honestly recall how shitty some of the maps were but they still met the FH2 standard (of that time), so why have the goals been moved beyond the reach of the common man?


 Like I said, "it's Da Vinci saying to Michaelangelo that the Sistine chapel isn't good enough"

Can't agree - That higher standard, IMO, is one of the only things keeping Fh2 alive right now. It means replayability even on bad play-days.

I think the devs need to increase their numbers is what - Not lower their standards.

[[KamiKaze] Destroyer]

...

I dont think any body is trying to say Devs and Testers are evil elitist group It is just suggestions and opinions. I think you guys have done great job, and i never said otherwise, but, it doesint stop me for suggesting things that i believe personally would make it even better =)

I have been grateful to have assistance of one of beta testers from FH team while working on my map. He helped me a lot, pointing out loads of bugs that i wouldint notice myself. But, there were also parts where i felt that he was trying to tell me what i should do and not do, and that is just, not beta testers job if you ask me... Ofcourse, opinions and suggestions, but only if they are coming from simillar point of view of the map creator, which the beta tester should adjust to, as beign a beta tester. From that, i imagine a situation where you dont have 1 beta tester but 10, and all of them dont like this and that. In the end, there is danger that the map will be too scaled down into jack-of-all-traders style. But yeah, my opinion ofc =)

I am only assuming how you guys work, i would try to apply, but i fear that your system of working might not be same as mine, which would leave me frustrated not beign able to do what i want to do :/ But like i said, not sure how you guys work, maybe you could tell me a little about it? =)

...

Sorry Djinn, but i dont agree, many maps look quite similar in design, so replayablity is not nessecery higher if you make maps as IRL looking as possible. With this map editor you can make very diffrent gameplay maps. Maps like Berlin 1945, or Coral Sea (only airplanes). That is what i would call replayablity in this game personally. With maps that gameplay style differ a lot from eachother.

[psykfallet]

Damn you sound awfully alot like a dev, you both have the same confidence in your design skills, except for the difference that he has worked on loads of maps, and you have made 1

[jan_kurator]

that was exactly the same thing I thought after reading Destroyer's post but difference between those two is huge. My advice is to have some humility and don't be stubborn, at least at the beggining with mapping