Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Normandy maps => Feedback => St lo Breakthrough => Topic started by: Toddel on 01-10-2010, 23:10:40
-
"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
-
great map, the fights for the Hill can be intense but...
1) I would like to see more all around defences for the Hill, at the moment it's too easy for the Allies to just circle around the east side and avoid the German lines of fire, except from that 88 position (which is easily killed by a tank shell).
2) I propose heavier artillery for the Germans, imo the Wurfgerat or Nebelwerfer would be a good fit, perhaps even the Stuka Fuss (if the Dev's were so generous).
-
I love the map and would also endorse a bit more defense for the hill! Would be nice to get seperate spawns between the barn and the actual farm though, but thats a minor thing.
-
great map, the fights for the Hill can be intense but...
1) I would like to see more all around defences for the Hill, at the moment it's too easy for the Allies to just circle around the east side and avoid the German lines of fire, except from that 88 position (which is easily killed by a tank shell).
The Axis have a mobile Pak 40 in the backyard of the farm house for defense which has HE & AP rounds. Perhaps I could add a stationary MG42 to the top of the sandbags inside the garage, but I want the Allies to have a chance of getting into the flag zone by allowing them to flank.
2) I propose heavier artillery for the Germans, imo the Wurfgerat or Nebelwerfer would be a good fit, perhaps even the Stuka Fuss (if the Dev's were so generous).
Perhaps replace the LeFH18 with the Nebelwerfer....
-
Why would the germans need heavier artillery?
Allies should have an advantage in artillery anyway. They defiantly had that in WW2.
-
Is it just me or does the US 105 seem to have a hard time hitting the hill and the other closest flags? Seem like most of the time when getting a spot, the shell hits the building at the base or the trees heading to the hill. I have gotten a few tks because of this and now i usually fire ap first to make sure my shells land on target.
-
Yeah, American Arty is situated at a place surrounded by a lot of objects that block arty shots. Once I my shot hit the house and their I kill a team mate that was running around the house... that's kinda boring for the team kill AND I cannot support my team mates that needed arty support.
-
Post screen shots of the objects interfering with the artillery so I can remove them. :)
-
I've been trying to find a placed to reload the Allied tank rounds - so I'd like to know where it is, or if we can put one out. After running out of rounds AP, most heat - doing a good job of defense: I found my self suiciding to the rear German line in order to re-spawn a new tank with ammo.
I wish more of the barrier/border buildings had open doors and places to hide.
Good Map though.
-
This map can be very unbalanced as well. There's no 88's; allies can easily camp from the church and snipe us from there. Not only that, but if Theta complains so much about Ramelle. I will complain about this map; the balance here its horrible. Sure it has got pretty good tank fights, but other than that, allies easily spawn camp the germans from every single direction. From all the 5 times I played this map, the same thing happened over and over again. Add some folliage, or so to cover better the base and also please add a barrier so the allies cannot go into the spawn.
Its a whorefest there.
-
You've played the map 5 times! Understand the importance of certain flags and learn the map so then after 3 months or 30+ rounds repost your comments again. I guarantee the community will adapt tactics and play better. The only thing I changed/added after the initial release is the Allies get another M3A1 half-track at their main base and an extra 60 tickets.
-
You've played the map 5 times! Understand the importance of certain flags and learn the map so then after 3 months or 30+ rounds repost your comments again. I guarantee the community will adapt tactics and play better. The only thing I changed/added after the initial release is the Allies get another M3A1 half-track at their main base and an extra 60 tickets.
Then again germans are screwed big. Because 2 of the flags are very close to the ally spawn so they can easily counter attack the flags with ease and di the encircle of the german spawn base and spawn camp for the reminder of the round. I will suggest adding an 88 to the church if it falls in german hands and another at the left side of the map.
-
You've played the map 5 times! Understand the importance of certain flags and learn the map so then after 3 months or 30+ rounds repost your comments again. I guarantee the community will adapt tactics and play better. The only thing I changed/added after the initial release is the Allies get another M3A1 half-track at their main base and an extra 60 tickets.
Then again germans are screwed big. Because 2 of the flags are very close to the ally spawn so they can easily counter attack the flags with ease and di the encircle of the german spawn base and spawn camp for the reminder of the round. I will suggest adding an 88 to the church if it falls in german hands and another at the left side of the map.
do you know what happens aswel? The germans at the flags close to the allied main INSTA pop anything that comes out. Also if the allies capture church, thats an extra 88 for them.
This map is great. Dont change anything at it(exept the Extra halftrack)
I saw this map won by both amis as jerries alot. And with 3 allied tanks vs 2 german ones(again as usual), be glad it issent 6 to 1 like it was in the real battle.
-
great map, the fights for the Hill can be intense but...
1) I would like to see more all around defences for the Hill, at the moment it's too easy for the Allies to just circle around the east side and avoid the German lines of fire, except from that 88 position (which is easily killed by a tank shell).
The Axis have a mobile Pak 40 in the backyard of the farm house for defense which has HE & AP rounds. Perhaps I could add a stationary MG42 to the top of the sandbags inside the garage, but I want the Allies to have a chance of getting into the flag zone by allowing them to flank.
2) I propose heavier artillery for the Germans, imo the Wurfgerat or Nebelwerfer would be a good fit, perhaps even the Stuka Fuss (if the Dev's were so generous).
Perhaps replace the LeFH18 with the Nebelwerfer....
Point 1 ) please add more artillery, don't remove what is existing already. That's why I suggested the 'Fuss' or the nebelwerfer. Imo, the single fire werfer would be the cat's ass (correct me if wrong but I think it was modelled/coded ages ago, for the Stuka zu Fuss itself)
Point 2) I love the action on/ and around Hill 108 but IMO, the Allies do not need an opportunity to flank. I would extend the trench lines and cover so that there is 360 protection of the firebase (it was German protocl to maintain all around defence and this flag needs it).
in order to win, The Allies should be forced to advance with arty or tank cover, lots of smoke, brute force and a modicum of teamwork. By promoting a strong defence (at 108) for the Germans, the action is sustained around Hill 108, providing morale to the defending troops and allowing for some infantry attacks towards the 2 main road flags (forget the names)
I am also really loving the action around the Church (for the allies) but that area is secondary to the awesome-ness of attacking 108.
-
Sheik then we will end up with another map where the public does NOT know how to play and the germans win over and over
NO
dont change this map PLEASE.
-
I agree on point number 2 ... It feels strange that the germans haven't set defenses in the direction of the attack...
-
You cannot always expect where the attack comes from. The ST lo battle was one of those times
-
Oh, hem, yes. After some research, it appears the battle for this hill was mostly a german counter-attack. Nvm then.
-
On top of that, the hill is very easy to defend as it is. Often you see almost the entire German team spawn there, because they can't spawn at the other two front flags and the flags inland are not cappable yet.
-
Precisly
Please guys, St lo is awesome.
An extra sherman and PZIII ausf N would be nice though, but even so this map is AWESOME
-
Can i suggest to replace trucks with apc s and add armored reconnaissance vehicles ( greyhound and puma ) ? (http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0006.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net) Pleeease. (http://serve.mysmiley.net/happy/happy0165.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
Pumas at st lo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKwPKcPB__0
And theta please don't even try to say something about puma. (http://serve.mysmiley.net/fighting/fighting0002.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net) ;D
-
If it was there, then sure. but then i want greyhound and extra allied tank!
Seriously its already 3 vs 2 here in terms of tanks. The allies had 4 times the amounts of tanks during the St lo breaktrough
-
After playing St lo today for 5 times.... here's some suggestions
-Add M8 greyhound and another tank for allies(M8 Scott? :):):))
-Add Puma for germans (see above post about video and such)
-add Pak40/57mm on windmill. Its a place that attracts sherman and Panzer whores and its a place where many people spawn because they want the church
And/or a Bazooka/faust kit on windmill
Make the first 3 flags uncappable by germans once allies have captured all 3. Really today i saw the allies constant losing 4 times by 4 diffrent teams because you needed an entire team to take one flag, and seconds later a single german trolls in and takes one of the 3 flags
-
Changes for the next patch
*Added* US will receive an extra M3A1 (APC) transport at their Main Base
*Modified* US will be getting 60 more tickets
*Added* Working bleed. The broken bleed (default 10 per minute) has been fixed by Spitfire so in the next patch the US=6 per min DE=8 per min. This will give the US plenty of time to coordinate their attack and then defend their foothold.
*Added* Villiers Fossard & Les Foulons will have spawn points for the DE if they capture either flag.
In terms of your suggestions
-"Make the first 3 flags uncappable by germans once allies have captured all 3". I like the idea, but that would eliminate the re-attacking of Hill 108 for the Germans and that would suck and not be a true historically accurate betrayal of the battle.
-The map is too small for the Puma /Greyhound (tested) even-though they were seen on the battlefield during that time.
-Their is a Pak 40 inside the apple orchard just south of the Windmill.
-The Zooka/Faust pick up.....maybe, but the kit limits seem to balance the tanks.
-
Lets see how the map plays with your changes first guderian :)
Ticket bleed was indeed much. Perhaps this can fixes things alone
-
Oh gosh, I may have actually fallen in love with spitfire... ;D
-
I thought my eyes betrayed me
but they dont
Its 2 stugs and a PZIV vs one sherman 76, one sherman 75 and a M10....
Sorry but this is uneven. The allies have to assault and they dont have the equipment for it.
I hope you consider in adding more tanks for the allies.
Its not about being negative. But i have played this map many times now in the past 2 weeks, and its a great map but most of the times the allies simply dont have the strenght to push trough.
-
I think the map would be more balanced if you took away the PAK from the windmill/orchard area...
The 76 sherman is Tank-enough for the allies; if the allied team helps spot enemy tanks.
-
I think the map would be more balanced if you took away the PAK from the windmill/orchard area...
The 76 sherman is Tank-enough for the allies; if the allied team helps spot enemy tanks.
Ye but those stugs can easily take down that Sherman with no problem
Giving the same number of german tanks on a normandy map then the allies=just simply wrong
-
giving the allies better respawm time of vehicles would help.
did you make something about the buggy m105? You cant shoot the hill because its too close to it so the angle is wrong or you hit the trees.
blocking the center flag of first line after US capped it would be good, so mainbase raping is avoided
-
Ye thats a good one aswel. The first 3 flags are extremely difficult to cap and hold together. its nearly impossible to do
I still stand for more tanks for the allies. It just issent right to see equal numbers of German tanks vs allied ones.
-
Ye thats a good one aswel. The first 3 flags are extremely difficult to cap and hold together. its nearly impossible to do.
The key to winning as Allied on St. Lo is having responsible and disciplined Squad Leaders that work together to assault/defend flags that are won/lost. (Objectively speaking, you can't consider factors like individual skills or experience)
I still stand for more tanks for the allies. It just issent right to see equal numbers of German tanks vs allied ones.
With all the fire power on the map and the large areas of open fields, adding extra tanks would make infantry life suck hardcore especially once the new patch is release ;) .
However, to compromise and give the Allies the "illusion" of tank superiority, I can take a closer look that the re-spawn times of US vs German armor and tweak them to represent the US tank superiority ratio.
-
Why not toss out one stug ;D
thats good also.
Sorry but just the same amount of german tanks for allied just doesnt feel right.
-
If any tank should be added, add to the German side.
Sherman76 wins PzIVH
M10 wins StugIV (by a mile)
Sherman75 roughly equals to another StugIV
Which side has superiority is very clear.
-
I'd rather say that Germans have too many tanks when Americans are on the bleed...
-
If any tank should be added, add to the German side.
Sherman76 wins PzIVH
M10 wins StugIV (by a mile)
Sherman75 roughly equals to another StugIV
Which side has superiority is very clear.
You ignore fact that axis are on defence and have several PaKs and 88. Also a lot of infantry AT weaponry waiting in bushes and US is forced to move forward if they wish to win.
-
Those guns can be captured by both sides. And US have better infantry AT weapon as well.
-
Question:
Playing the 2.4 version offline with bots(Allied side) and captured the Allied base and also the first flag on the left. But Les Foulons is not capture-able, I can make the point neutral, I can even get it to fill up with blue and there are no enemies around (only like 9 allied bots also wanting to cap the point) but nothing happens?
-
Mh, I dont really like the new version of it, eventhough the changes seems minor, they make a hugh difference.
What are the problems.
1) The spawmpoint at center for the germans.
I liked the old version, where there was no spawmpoint at all for the center and eastern flag eventhough the Germans had them. Germans needed to start a real attack to get those flags, not just a spawmattack, recapping it.
You now need 2 complete squads for just holding these two all the time, till the rest of the team is capping hill. And it does not happen to often that all 3 flags are USA right in time, and then still in US hands when you capped the 2nd line.
Solution: remove german spawpoint there,
further solutuion: Once capped by the US Villers is not recapable.
----
Problem 2)
3 US Tanks: M10, Sherman+Sherman 76
vs
3 Ger. Tanks: PZIV 2x Stug
--
Stug is pretty strong in the new patch, as you cant kill him from front with 1°angle in the sides. So you need to flank the stug now, which is pretty impossible in the open terrain. While the shermans can be killed from everything. In addition there are 2 pak 40s, and one 88. Making it almost impossible for the US to launch a succesfull attack.
Solution:
a)Removing one Stug
b) Removing one Stug and replacing it with PZIV + adding another Sherman.
c) Adding another Sherman and M10.
What I like at the new version is, that there are more APCs.!
-
I agree with Irish, the US have very little chance to actually "break through" (pun intended).
-
so I push this thread.
Most problem with new version really seems to be the new spawmpoints for german troops at villiers and the eastern flag.
Cause if you loose one of these flags , a squad spawms at the other and recap the flag that they just lost. And if both are capped, they take a kübel and rush it back.
So I have an idea.
1) dont change hill
2) Make the other two flags german at the start, with spawmpoints there, but once capped they cant be recapped anymore.
Also it would be nice to add some sort of bush, wall ect to the exit of the US base, as Stugs love to spawmrape from Villiers...
And pls fix the 105, it still often hits the tree/ hill when firing to Hill 109
thx cheers
-
Would be great if the spawnpoints at chateau for the germans could be reworked, there is one at building north of chateau and it is completly useless you just get killd. For the Americans it might have some advantage i dont know.
Also the spawnpoints at the chruch are pretty bad if you want to defend it, because very often there are already americans inside and you cant get in again.
-
Mh, I dont really like the new version of it, eventhough the changes seems minor, they make a hugh difference.
What are the problems.
1) The spawmpoint at center for the germans.
I liked the old version, where there was no spawmpoint at all for the center and eastern flag eventhough the Germans had them. Germans needed to start a real attack to get those flags, not just a spawmattack, recapping it.
You now need 2 complete squads for just holding these two all the time, till the rest of the team is capping hill. And it does not happen to often that all 3 flags are USA right in time, and then still in US hands when you capped the 2nd line.
Solution: remove german spawpoint there,
further solutuion: Once capped by the US Villers is not recapable.
----
Problem 2)
3 US Tanks: M10, Sherman+Sherman 76
vs
3 Ger. Tanks: PZIV 2x Stug
--
Stug is pretty strong in the new patch, as you cant kill him from front with 1°angle in the sides. So you need to flank the stug now, which is pretty impossible in the open terrain. While the shermans can be killed from everything. In addition there are 2 pak 40s, and one 88. Making it almost impossible for the US to launch a succesfull attack.
Solution:
a)Removing one Stug
b) Removing one Stug and replacing it with PZIV + adding another Sherman.
c) Adding another Sherman and M10.
What I like at the new version is, that there are more APCs.!
Good example of how new software version makes it harder for allied tankers to counter German armored advantages... Thanks Irish for clarifying this particular case in good detail
-
Irish post is from 2011 is not refering to 2.45 Stugs and Panzer IVs have no a great disadvantage against the 76 Shermans, because they are far to strong now.
-
This map could use a ticket increase for both teams.
Compared to the other maps, an average round on this one lasts rather shortly. Especially when there are 80+ people playing it (I understand that the maps are "balanced" for 64 players). It's a shame, really, because it's such a nice map.
-
Broken.
I am sure the regulars will come to berate, but as per usual the devs are not factoring noobs. Two northeast flags need to be closed down after capping not to get the whole allied team bogged down on them for no reason.
-
Yeah I agree, the push mode is not well done. Maybe it will be changed in a future patch.
-
Hey TS,
If you want to lock those two flags up and make them non-recaptureable, that's fine by me. Iwould do it myself but I won't be active for a few more months as real life work and money for my new laptop is the reason for my extended hiatus.
Also I read a suggestion where an increase in the number of tickets would like be something good thing for the 64 player map when they have over 64+players.
Thanks :)
-
I´d prefer a similar system like the one on Lebisey. The 2 flags on the top left unlock Chateau and the 2 flags top right unlock Windmill. So those 2 flags can be recaptured, while the US team have the option to attack another one.
I´m not a big friend of making flags not recappable., except some Maps that were designed for that. This sector push can make Maps really static.
-
Yeah this map is not suited for sector push. In fact, if it had maybe 2 fewer flags it would be a good conquest map.
-
This map really needs more tickets Ts4EVER.
Will fixes be included in the next patch?
Thanks
;)
-
Could the spawns at the Hill be changed for the germans?
Its pointless IMO that you spawn at that barn and have to run through MG fire from the Shermans to defend the capzone. Teamlocked spawns would be a good idea i think!
-
Could the spawns at the Hill be changed for the germans?
Its pointless IMO that you spawn at that barn and have to run through MG fire from the Shermans to defend the capzone. Teamlocked spawns would be a good idea i think!
That spawn really should get moved. In addition to the spawn camping issues, the Americans often attack from that direction which leads to the Germans spawning on top of or behind them.
I don't think the Germans should spawn in the trenches because that flag is already really difficult for the US to take, but maybe a small house+spawn could be added further to the south-west where it would be less in the path of the US.
-
I agree with that change. Although I'm sure it was put there so the Germans could man the Pak40 before a jeep came running into the flag.
It'd be best to have that spawn active for like 1min after the round starts so Germans can set up defenses. After that it can disappear.
-
2.56 Changelog for St Lo 64
-Add Fallschirmjäger Player Models