Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Feedback => General => Topic started by: Airshark79 on 14-04-2016, 10:04:33
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Hi,
AP-mines(smines) are still clunky as hell, the maps are still full of chokes, and I havent seen a single s-mine being dismantled by engi in my last two+ years. It's always a brave soul going isis and blowing himself up on a mine for his comrades.
IMO, to solve this you should allow bullets and explosives to interact with s-mines. I don't know what it should take to blow them up, but that's something which should be on the table.
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It is on the table
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Thanks
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Overall I think it would be nice to have knives or your primary weapon be able to disable mines, but that would take an huge overhaul of the system I think
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Of course this sneaky evil weapon is still "clunky as hell" after 3 nerfs it received.
A little suggestion, just remove it from the game since our online rifleman so desperately want some nobel gun fight without it and would not budge on revisionism.
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It definitely needs an easier way to be disabled, crawling is too damn unreliable when you teammates like to rush in no matter the consequences.
Is there at least a possibility for the scout class to get a few mine flags to warn teammates easier? Or is there a limitation that all the slots are taken?
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I've never seen a mine removed by engi, so I don't believe the scouts will take the time to make sure teammates don't die on a mine, especially when there is no score in line.
That's my take on the flag idea
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Well yeah the mine removal by engi happens quite rarely, but it's not exactly a smart idea to go de-mining stuff if you can't at least warn teammates about it in an intuitive and easy way (no, chat does not count because they either won't see it at all or know what the hell are you talking about).
At least if the scout had a few mine flags he could warn teammates easier, and scouts are probably more likely to be paying attention to mines than other classes because they tend to look for good mining spots more often...
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AP mines were my least favorite thing when I started playing this mod. They just seem un-historical. I suppose the mines themselves fit WW2 but the way the players use them seems too modern warfare. They use them like special forces anti-pursuit mines or quickie booby traps. I could be wrong but I don't think scouts and snipers carried them in WW2. I suggest limiting them to special engineer pickup kits in defensive positions. Maybe you could even have vehicles that deploy groups of them and static AP mine fields around some flags. It would be really cool if they had a 4 second delay and launched a munition up to eye level before exploding.
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I agree, the way AP mines are implemented always irked me as it just doesn't match the feel of the rest of the game. Specialty kits like snipers having them is fine, but they mostly act as booby traps which shouldn't be in a standard soldier's kit.
Plus they just don't work well in the engine. They clip through objects, they can't be disarmed by gunfire, and if one's on stairs or a steep slope literally the only way to get past is to suicide through it.
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I agree, the way AP mines are implemented always irked me as it just doesn't match the feel of the rest of the game.
They clip through objects, they can't be disarmed by gunfire, and if one's on stairs or a steep slope literally the only way to get past is to suicide through it.
I have never seen any clipping issues, even when they could still be placed on walls.
You're complaining that they don't match the feel of the game, yet you want something as arcadey as defusing mines by shooting them.
Regarding mines on stairs: utilize engineer kits. Isn't that one of the things you people are complaining about? Engineer kits, with their wrench and mine markers, are actually useful. You could also just crawl over mines without triggering them.
As someone else already mentioned, they've been tweaked a couple of times already and made "weaker", yet people are still complaining about it. Most likely because they don't want to pay attention to the ground they're walking on. Spotting mines isn't an issue when they're sticking out of the ground. It seems to me that everyone just wants a more casual experience and to die less, by removing a solid gameplay mechanic that they can't deal with.
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Every game has that one "cheap" weapon (noobtubes in CoD, P90 in CS). These are actually important, because they allow the less skilled player, or in our case, the player with an American or Asian ping, to also be effective and useful in combat. The art is to make sure that these weapons are not so strong that also really good players use them. Meaning they have to be effective, but more skillful weapons should be more effective in the right hands.
I think with this nerf the smines work pretty well in that way. Before, they were so common (and planted so quickly) that for many people the only way to enter a house was prone. ;) As you can imagine, that is not really how we want the mod to play. Now they are still useful for area denial, but at least can't be spammed everywhere and basically used as a primary weapon. The noobs are finally back in their bottom feeding place :D ;)
Regarding realism: They are more representative of booby traps than actual mines.
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mg's and tanks already take that position imo.. high ping..camp and spam HE, bullets
Regarding mines on stairs: utilize engineer kits. Isn't that one of the things you people are complaining about? Engineer kits, with their wrench and mine markers, are actually useful. You could also just crawl over mines without triggering them.
Well I made the thread because that something nobody does, even at a remotely competitive level.
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Every game has that one "cheap" weapon (noobtubes in CoD, P90 in CS). These are actually important, because they allow the less skilled player, or in our case, the player with an American or Asian ping, to also be effective and useful in combat. The art is to make sure that these weapons are not so strong that also really good players use them. Meaning they have to be effective, but more skillful weapons should be more effective in the right hands.
I think with this nerf the smines work pretty well in that way. Before, they were so common (and planted so quickly) that for many people the only way to enter a house was prone. ;) As you can imagine, that is not really how we want the mod to play. Now they are still useful for area denial, but at least can't be spammed everywhere and basically used as a primary weapon. The noobs are finally back in their bottom feeding place :D ;)
Regarding realism: They are more representative of booby traps than actual mines.
just dont nerf the smoke grenades... please i beg !
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Having played a bit with mines recently I'd say the nerfhammer hit a bit too hard this time. At least the rearm time should be lowered a bit, because frankly they aren't really worth the effort now.
Your probability of successfully placing a few of them during battle is quite low (because of the average survival rate in FH2), especially on flags where ammo boxes are non-existing or in an exposed place, and then there's the whole issue of actually managing to kill someone with them (teamkills are much more likely) as the players are quite adept at spotting mines in well known bottlenecks...
I agree with the ammo reduction, and even the fix on deploying them on walls, but the rearm rate needs a buff if you still want the general player population to use them, not just the high pingers that have no other viable option...
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Having played a bit with mines recently I'd say the nerfhammer hit a bit too hard this time. At least the rearm time should be lowered a bit, because frankly they aren't really worth the effort now.
I don't think so at all. It seems perfect to me. Now there's not an S-mine at every doorway but there are plenty of times that I'm kept out of a flag or have slowed the enemy down capping a flag with 1 well placed mine.
Now it just seems like you have to be smarter with where you place the smines. It takes a bit more skill.
(teamkills are much more likely)
allowing more smines will not help this issue.
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I have never seen any clipping issues, even when they could still be placed on walls.
They go through anything that doesn't have collision, so namely "undergrowth" which includes a fair amount of the rubble and rocks on the ground. It's not a problem with the American AP mines because they're quite tall, but the S-mines can be almost completely obscured if you put them inside a rock.
Regarding mines on stairs: utilize engineer kits. Isn't that one of the things you people are complaining about? Engineer kits, with their wrench and mine markers, are actually useful. You could also just crawl over mines without triggering them.
This is impossible with a lot of mine placements. People know of the issue where you can't get near mines on stairs and exploit it heavily. It's a big problem on certain flags like the central flag on Bastogne or 16p Mt. Olympus since they have an ammo box in the flag zone and its possible to completely (or almost completely in Bastogne's case) wall off the flag zone with s-mines by placing them at stairs and ladders.
And it's not unrealistic to make disarming s-mines easier. While yeah, you can't realistically disarm them by shooting them, they also shouldn't be a huge threat if you see them. Even if it is in a place where you can craw under it, realistically you'd just step over it or something. The cost of having to stop and go prone under it is pretty huge if you're trying to assault a flag.
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When I was a high-ping noob for years I used grenades and smgs as an equalizer. I was also an AT and AA gun whore. The AA in Olympus castle was my favorite. It made a shit noob feel like a warrior king atop his tower. I've only seen "effective" AP mining in tournament play where you have time to put out a lot of them and then use them as warning system when defending a flag. In public play it's just a cheap kill. It sometimes gets the lead attacker or the ninja but that's about it. It can ruin a defense on some maps as much as it slows an assault. There's nothing like team mate putting a mine right where you want to go or dig in.
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but the S-mines can be almost completely obscured if you put them inside a rock.
And what's the problem with it? Mines are supposed to be hidden in the first place. Does every mine need to shout out "Hey I'm here"? Or like what they did in bf3/4 to put a giant icon on minimap.
To me smines were a great weapon to defeat some clueless rush kind of players in a halarious way, like this angry kid get blown up 4 times in a row and then cursed me: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxSteK7smF0, which was great fun. It's the type of weapon old FPS games had but can't be seen in modern games like bf4 or cod, since those are infested with rush-kid gameplay style.
I haven't played with this thing and blown ppl up for a long time since WAW Thursday players went single digit, but it still sickens me how some ppl ask to nerf it again and again just because they don't like it.
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To me smines were a great weapon to defeat some clueless rush kind of players in a halarious way...
You still can. There's still 1 mine in the kit, it hasn't been removed completely. Now you just need to use a bit more skill and foresight before placing it.
...it still sickens me how some ppl ask to nerf it again and again just because they don't like it.
This is AP mines first 'nerf' if you wanna call it that. Afaik they haven't been changed since 2.0. I actually suggested lessening the amount of overall mines internally for 2 reasons;
1. The amount of mines were pretty ‘spammy;’ especially small maps with few flag routes. It’s easy to see on some maps like Giarabub when many recon players end up with far more teamkills than actual kills.
2. Mines don't fit the historical accuracy that FH2 strives for. There’s an argument that can be made for why mines exist in this game at all. Mines weren’t commonly used in real life the way that they are in FH2; individuals didn’t carry a few spare AP Mines in their kit just to toss on the ground in the heat of battle. IRL mines were carefully placed, marked and noted by everyone who needed to know, and mainly placed in ‘fields’ beforehand in the sense that they were grouped together as an area denial weapon. Sure there are exceptions, as with everything. There’s more than a few cases of mines being placed as ‘booby-traps’ left behind by a retreating enemy or stealthily placed behind enemy lines to disrupt supply routes. But that wasn’t as common and still doesn’t entirely fit with the way mines are represented in FH2.
Imo, FH2 mines can be thought of as being carried by a platoon, or battalion, (in FH2s case represented by a squad) who use them while defending a flag by placing them at strategic points in their defensive line. They should be placed with care, and they should take time and thought to be used properly.
From a gameplay standpoint, mines are a great way to manipulate gameplay and introduce an overall strategy into how a team defends or attacks a certain area. This is how mines should work in-game, not as a short distance sticky grenade thrown from a balcony like they’re sometimes used :P
So imo lessening the amount of mines allows people to think before placing them and overall makes the game less spammy. Now you have to ask yourself, 'do I wanna place a mine on the stairs to completely deny people from accessing my sniping spot? Or do I wanna put it in a place where it will more than likely kill a whole squad at a bottleneck point to a flag?' Whereas before you could just say 'por que no los dos?'
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I once tryed removing AP mine but my mine detector wasnt reacting.. Can AP mines be removed?
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You dont remove mines with the detector, you remove them with the wrench. Detector is only for... detecting! *gasp*
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You dont remove mines with the detector, you remove them with the wrench. Detector is only for... detecting! *gasp*
Yes,Im not stupid. I wanted to say that detector doesnt detect AP mines for me. Tryed few times,but nothing
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Afaik they only detect AT Mines. And even then you have to be pretty spot on when you sweep over it for it to detect properly. The detectors could actually use an overhaul but then you have to ask "is it worth it?"
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it's just a gimmick
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I think the devs wanted mine detectors to have some gameplay value in the early days of FH2. But the way the gameplay evolved they were made kinda useless.
They're still valuable on a map like Omaha beach for the Americans since there's only 1 way to get the tanks off the beach. But even then I don't think the Americans have them in any kits so yea, :P
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::) Guess you could streamline that system with mines being visible as dirt mounds with decoys available to deploy for engineers so that people could take the time to check those mounds for mines with the detectors and dissassemble them. So that they are useful in area denial with a clear counter, which would be the detector.
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This is AP mines first 'nerf' if you wanna call it that. Afaik they haven't been changed since 2.0.
Deploy time was accidentaly shortened to 1sec in pre 2.45 times. This was reverted to the actual deploy times (fitting the animations) in 2.50 again.