Author Topic: Few additions.  (Read 7092 times)

Offline Yustax

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Few additions.
« on: 12-10-2009, 07:10:42 »
Hi I just wanted to say first that the mod is very awesome and now officially it takes my gamer time. I've never played an intense WW2 experience such as this. But since the mod looks for realistic, accurate and historical gameplay I just wanted to suggest just 2 small things:

1. While I love how the tanks behave in the game, I think there's still a lot of problems with the hit detection in vehicles; just because the rear is the weakest part of a tank doesnt mean it needs to be the weak spot of the tank. In Red Orchestra the tanks have a realistic damage model where a good shot can dissable or kill a tank depending of the hit. There's also a thing that botters me, the Stug IV-Panzer IV with side skirts, well the skirts dont work at all. They were used heavily in Normandy and they worked very well deflecting PIAT and HEAT rounds, and were still effective in deflecting rounds from other tanks. But they dont work at all in the game.

2. Complains are over I will just suggest just two new things I'll like into the game.

a)The Jagdpanzer 38, or commonly known as Hetzer tank killer. It was an incredible agile, fast, well protected for a small tank and plus it have an incredible and powerful 7.5 cm PaK 39 gun capable of firing Stug IV shells making this little baby a monstruous baby capable of engaging tanks at 1000 meters while exploiting the small size to puncture holes in enemy tanks while hiding in ambushes. At being smaller than a Stug, it was a very deadly tank killer. I like this baby over other tank killers. It can be spawneable something like in middle engagement or something like that. The speed most be high but still able to resist at least 2 shots to the frontal armor of all allied tanks except of the Firefly, and still 2 rounds of a 57mm allied AT gun.



b)While the german arsenal is more than capable of anihilating enemy tanks, it lacks several key elements in urban fighting where a single tank can destroy your defence front if it is in a very good and tactical position. For this task where stealth is the key to destroy this threat and where anti tank classes are unavailable, sometimes I turn to the german pioneer that is armed with a satchel charge, but found that if the vehicles moves you just wasted a charge and will surely be likely to spot you and blow you to pieces. Thats why I though of this little baby.





The Hohlladung was a magnetic mine that could be easily attached to enemy tanks at any angle and still could penetrate up to 150-170mm of armor. I think that instead of satchel charges of the engineer, he should be carrying this. It weights just 3kgs, which is more or less the weight of the charges he carries. The number could be still be two, and it must take just around 3 seconds to set the mine against the tank and activate the fuse for 7.5 seconds before it blows up. It will work like the c4 in BF2.
« Last Edit: 12-10-2009, 08:10:22 by Yustax »

Offline Natty

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #1 on: 12-10-2009, 08:10:30 »
Hi Yustax, thanks for the post and welcome to the mod/forum :)

Was the jagdpanzer38 used in Normandy?

Never saw that mine before, looks evil  :D

Offline Oddball

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #2 on: 12-10-2009, 08:10:47 »
No Offense, but i'm going to hang myself if I see one more different tank variation in game..... I want more light armoured APCs, Transports, support vehicles, ect....... :o

That magnetic mine looks like it could be handy though, it reminds me of those "sticky bombs"..

Offline VonMudra

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #3 on: 12-10-2009, 08:10:41 »
Quote from: Yustax
1. While I love how the tanks behave in the game, I think there's still a lot of problems with the hit detection in vehicles; just because the rear is the weakest part of a tank doesnt mean it needs to be the weak spot of the tank. In Red Orchestra the tanks have a realistic damage model where a good shot can dissable or kill a tank depending of the hit. There's also a thing that botters me, the Stug IV-Panzer IV with side skirts, well the skirts dont work at all. They were used heavily in Normandy and they worked very well deflecting PIAT and HEAT rounds, and were still effective in deflecting rounds from other tanks. But they dont work at all in the game.

RO isn't exactly the best tbh....  And the skirts do work ingame against heat rounds (piat are heat).  They did not deflect enemy shells however, irl, they were only, at most, 5mm thick, IE, thin as hell.  However they do work ingame in stopping HEAT rounds, exceedingly well.

Quote from: Yustax
2. Complains are over I will just suggest just two new things I'll like into the game.

a)The Jagdpanzer 38, or commonly known as Hetzer tank killer. It was an incredible agile, fast, well protected for a small tank and plus it have an incredible and powerful 7.5 cm PaK 39 gun capable of firing Stug IV shells making this little baby a monstruous baby capable of engaging tanks at 1000 meters while exploiting the small size to puncture holes in enemy tanks while hiding in ambushes. At being smaller than a Stug, it was a very deadly tank killer. I like this baby over other tank killers. It can be spawneable something like in middle engagement or something like that. The speed most be high but still able to resist at least 2 shots to the frontal armor of all allied tanks except of the Firefly, and still 2 rounds of a 57mm allied AT gun.

1:  The Hetzer never saw combat in Normandy.  It was only begining trial runs in combat on the Ostfront in May/June 1944, and never made it to the Western Front until the allies were at the german border.  By 1945 however, it was def a common place tank.
2:The crews hated it for its incredibly cramped quarters, and incredibly poor design, in which the loader was placed on the wrong side of the gun, forcing him to have to lean over the entire breech to reload it, so when it is ingame, I'd expect a nice long reload time.
3: The frontal armour would stop any shells from a normal 75mm, and regular shells of the 57mm (not APDS).  Not 2 shots to the front.  It would stop ANY shots.

And since you apparently do like the Hetzer, here's some photos of the 12th SS's (with the California Historical Group) Hetzer out here in California:





Quote from: Yustax
b)While the german arsenal is more than capable of anihilating enemy tanks, it lacks several key elements in urban fighting where a single tank can destroy your defence front if it is in a very good and tactical position. For this task where stealth is the key to destroy this threat and where anti tank classes are unavailable, sometimes I turn to the german pioneer that is armed with a satchel charge, but found that if the vehicles moves you just wasted a charge and will surely be likely to spot you and blow you to pieces. Thats why I though of this little baby.

The Hafthohlladung has been suggested before, and we might find it ingame eventually, as it is a neat little thing.  Don't expect it right away, but it should appear eventually, and we don't know what tricks the devs might have up their sleeves on that.  For all we know, it might be the next update, or it might not be until the next theater.
« Last Edit: 12-10-2009, 09:10:04 by VonMudra »

Offline Yustax

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #4 on: 12-10-2009, 09:10:11 »

And since you apparently do like the Hetzer, here's some photos of the 12th SS's (with the California Historical Group) Hetzer out here in California:





The Hafthohlladung has been suggested before, and we might find it ingame eventually, as it is a neat little thing.  Don't expect it right away, but it should appear eventually, and we don't know what tricks the devs might have up their sleeves on that.  For all we know, it might be the next update, or it might not be until the next theater.

Thx for the pictures. I like the Hetzer tank; well eventually Im sure will be seeing some Jagdpanthers that were used in Normandy, very, very good effective tank killer, incredible well protected and well armored. As for the mine well it was used in almost all stages of the war, they were quite effective and very useful. 150-170mm of armor penetration is very good for me. I'll like to have the mine instead of those satchel charges that cant stick to anything.

Offline Torenico

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #5 on: 12-10-2009, 09:10:09 »
Eh, Mudra said "It would stop ANY shots.", and he is right. This tank is not well protected. At all.


Offline Fuchs

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #6 on: 12-10-2009, 09:10:15 »
I highly doubt we will see the Jagdpanther for Normandy, less then 10 where in Normandy.
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Offline Die Happy

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #7 on: 12-10-2009, 09:10:18 »
not much more to say but i can only emphasize that the schürzen on STUG / panzerIV H / an panther (yes there is a version with and one without schürzen)  work perfectly well against any kind on HEAT ammo.
the problem is they dont cover 100% of the sides, a skilled tank hunter is able to hit below them and still make a still from the sides.
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Offline Yustax

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #8 on: 12-10-2009, 09:10:00 »
Eh, Mudra said "It would stop ANY shots.", and he is right. This tank is not well protected. At all.

70mm of frontal armor plus its slopped so it can withstand Sherman 75mm round, plus Churchill 40mm gun. It will get in troubles with the Cromwell 75mm 6 ponder gun that will kill it in a single shot. But still it can resist 57mm AT gun shots up 2 to maximum.

I highly doubt we will see the Jagdpanther for Normandy, less then 10 where in Normandy.

They were 12 tanks in total where just 2 were destroyed or disable. It have a kill ratio of 15 tanks kills which was more to say about Tigers or Panthers. It is still one of the most famous and best tank destroyer in the war. Well protected and armed with the Tiger II 8.8 cm KwK 43 gun, a very powerful anti tank gun and could destroy any type of tank in the WW2 battlefields.
« Last Edit: 12-10-2009, 10:10:30 by Yustax »

Offline Rataxes

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #9 on: 12-10-2009, 10:10:52 »

Offline Die Happy

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #10 on: 12-10-2009, 10:10:57 »
wow, just looked at the charts (http://www.wwiiequipment.com/pencalc/) and looks like the front hull / superstructure could take much more of a beating that i expected.


considering these values a normal sherman would not be able to penetrate the front, and even the long barreled  6pdr (L50) has it troubles if not using APDS.  of course the values on such a page can not be taken 100% accurate but they give a quite nice overview.
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Offline Yustax

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #11 on: 12-10-2009, 11:10:32 »
wow, just looked at the charts (http://www.wwiiequipment.com/pencalc/) and looks like the front hull / superstructure could take much more of a beating that i expected.


considering these values a normal sherman would not be able to penetrate the front, and even the long barreled  6pdr (L50) has it troubles if not using APDS.  of course the values on such a page can not be taken 100% accurate but they give a quite nice overview.

It has the Panther hull, with 100mm plus slopped armor of 55 degrees, suming that up its like having 135-140mm of frontal armor.

Offline Yustax

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #12 on: 12-10-2009, 11:10:36 »
wow, just looked at the charts (http://www.wwiiequipment.com/pencalc/) and looks like the front hull / superstructure could take much more of a beating that i expected.


considering these values a normal sherman would not be able to penetrate the front, and even the long barreled  6pdr (L50) has it troubles if not using APDS.  of course the values on such a page can not be taken 100% accurate but they give a quite nice overview.

It has the Panther hull, with 100mm plus slopped armor of 55 degrees, suming that up its like having 135-140mm of frontal armor. Or where you talking about the Hetzer? Still a very good tank killer.

Offline Thorondor123

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #13 on: 12-10-2009, 11:10:01 »
I think he meant the Jagdpanzer 38(t). The one with Panzer 38(t) hull.
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Offline Die Happy

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Re: Few additions.
« Reply #14 on: 12-10-2009, 12:10:49 »
yes i did, jadgpanther hull is pretty indestructible unless you use something "big"
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