Operation Cobra 64

[CologneSky]

played the map quite a lot lately. typically allies will have air superiority.
so its 4 vs. 2 (or does the fw190 spawn when axis still controls airfield?!) planes.
some of the allied fighters being ground attack capable.. axis fighters w/o ground attack capability..
dont quite see how allies are disadvantaged.


what a lame argument to say Allies may lose air superiority if axis have a good player on their side..

[McCloskey]

Allies start with 2 Mustangs. I guess both fairly capable of fending off the 190s. The fighter Thunderbolt is a lot worse though, and one would have to be mentally ill thinking about dogfighting with the ground attack Thunderbolt.

This versus 3 190s spawning from the very beginning of the game that are capable of ripping you apart in a matter of mere miliseconds with their cannons. Then you have German AA defences at pretty much every flag covering the western half of the map, while Allies get 2 shitty M16s.

[CologneSky]

and one would have to be mentally ill thinking about dogfighting with the ground attack Thunderbolt.

disagree! been shot down quite often by the p47s..
if they get the first shot, their board weapon mgs are absolutely deadly, both versions..

[|7th|Nighthawk]

They are still slow as hell and are even easy targets for !Marders!

[hyperanthropos]

I think axis start with 2 FW 190s. IIRC the only situation were Axis have 3 FW190 is when the Airfield gets capped, but the FW spawning there is still alive. If this happens there are two FWs spawning in the German mainbase.

[McCloskey]

ಠ_ಠ

I'm telling you Axis gets 3 (three) Focke-Wulfs 190 right from the beginning of the round. It was changed from 2 in previous patches (they now added a third one to the airfield at main). Play the map before you think, all it takes is just loading up the map and you'll see.

[THeTA0123]

190's still to bloody powerfull..... its armament rips you in 1 second, you cant outturn it with the P47. The P51 has far to weak armament to bring it down...........

[x4fun ODIUM]

You realize that a FW190 is way slower and less agile now than it was ever before in FH2?
Interesting, that a P-51 with several hundred of kg of bombload is still more agile than a FW190.

If you have pilots in the 2 P-51s that can tell ground from air, they will outturn and shred the FW190s with ease. If you are capable of flying a P-47, you will kill a FW190, too.
That is my point of view, I share it with Horstpetersens and Kefeng. We are the guys on our TS3 that have most flying hours I think, but prove me wrong on that.

The P-47 (which i fly most of the time) is the best of all FH2 versions so far, if you ask me.

- speed is fine.
- agility for a 7ton plane is just right.
- the convergence of the 8 .50cals is very good now (thx Devs).
- the firing rate of the .50 cals is very good now
  (you finally realize now that you have actually 8 of them). So a big thx for that!

You realize in Cobra, that the USA have air superiority, even with 4x FW190, and that is okay.
Please do not touch the P-47 any more, they are great.

It was a good idea to add the flag north of the train station. Maybe overthink, if you really want to make Farmhouse an uncap, that makes it hard for germans to break out.

The map could use one more mobile Flakvierling, then you could even remove one FW190 from mainbase.
That said, I like Cobra better than in 2.40.

[Horstpetersens]

Mmm, it seems unavoidable. OK, here goes:

If German team gets pushed back into base having lost all the flags, they just played badly and they should lose the round.

Amen.

This shows me that you don't play to game.

There is no tank support from mainbase because they get bombed.
So the infantrie gets raped by tanks surrounding the town.
thats how it is!

190's still to bloody powerfull..... its armament rips you in 1 second, you cant outturn it with the P47. The P51 has far to weak armament to bring it down...........

seriously learn to fly
Unbeliveble that some guys here post and don't have a clue.

No more planes on this map. there are allready to many planes .I crash several times with other planes in one round.
Remove the bombs of the green p51 or make it less agile
maybe add a second sdkfz 7 with vierling.
A static flak will almost allways lose against a plane.
This will give the germans a chance in the air.
If the devs would decide to fix the tanking system the germans would have a chance.

[hitm4k3r]

In my experience the german team gets pushed back to their mainbase almost every round on Cobra and it has nothing to do with a shitty team. It also happens quiet early in the matches.
It is the air supperiority of the allied team (that is right in my opnion) but the lack of mobile AA and proper coded german guns. You need two StuG IV to take one Sherman down on Cobra. This conected with the improved Windmill base where the way to the Farmhouse flag is so damn easy for the yanks makes it very difficult to defend for the german team.

Marders, 88's and Pak's are totaly useless since you won't be able to kill the Sherman tanks with one shot, though the far view distance demands this. Not to mention that you can easily kill the Marder and stationary weapons so damn easy with the MG of the planes.

The concept of a counter attack simply fails on this map. You have no skirts for the PIV what makes it difficult against camping infantry, the most important flag (train station) has no AA at all and the way out of the german base is simply too far and open (no cover) to the first flags. Did I mention the overwhelming number of Ubershermanz and other tanks like M10's and M18? Devs might be proud to break the german bias in tank combat, but they forget that this makes changes (and the changes on Cobra are welcome) totaly obsolete. The map design of Cobra automaticly leads to allied tank forces covering the flanks of the german conterattack and you have a quiet good view down the hill.

[Natty]

I agree that the americans don't need all 4 planes for the duration of the round. When they have taken trainstation, they could lose 1 plane in mainbase, and when they have all flags, lose another plane.

Also the german reinforcement tanks perhaps could replace one variant for a heavier tank.

Apart from that the map seems balanced. 762 reports 111 rounds played and the result is:

Operation Cobra
Rounds: 111
Axis: 53 (29552) - Allies: 58 (26967)

http://www.762-ranking.de/fh2stats/mapbalance.php?start=1342202400&bar=rounds

[Slayer]

Mmm, it seems unavoidable. OK, here goes:

If German team gets pushed back into base having lost all the flags, they just played badly and they should lose the round.

Amen.

This shows me that you don't play to game.

This shows me you don't pay attention. You quoted something from over a year back...

And then you post this, LOL

Unbeliveble that some guys here post and don't have a clue.

I think Natty's setup would do nicely, with diminishing US planes over the course of the map. Or put a few more AA emplacements in mainbase. (And add at least one AA to Trainstation.)

[x4fun ODIUM]

I'd go with more AA. But not emplacements in mainbase. The problem is not that USA bombers bomb the mainbase (no uncap attack rule blocks that quite good).

The problem is, that any breakout attempt is prone to fail because the lack of air cover.
So how about adding a 2nd SdKfz7 with Flakvierling? Then those 2 could accompany the tanks on their way back into Town/Airfield. I could manage without the 2 extra FW190s then.

Fixed AAA positions are easy targets for P-47s and P-51s (6x or 8x .50cal will shred anything stationary with ease) and that is okay. That is why I'd go with a 2nd mobile Flakvierling or something like the Ostwind tank on Sector 318, for those who remember.

[Horstpetersens]

Mmm, it seems unavoidable. OK, here goes:

If German team gets pushed back into base having lost all the flags, they just played badly and they should lose the round.

Amen.

This shows me that you don't play to game.

This shows me you don't pay attention. You quoted something from over a year back...

so the germans have ruled the map in 2.4?

[hyperanthropos]

I like Natty approach very much!
I have to say that I prefer a solution based on a loss of planes for allies, because Odis approach depends to much on the individual player that uses the Flak Sdkfz 7. Will kepp up with the tanks or just stay in the base or any other useless spot.
When you let the Allies lose some plays in late game its independedn from the players.