Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => Mareth Line => Topic started by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 11:03:30

Title: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 11:03:30
"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Eat Uranium on 06-05-2009, 01:05:07
I really quite like the change that 2.15 caused on this map.  All that new stuff: the tiger, pak 40s, pz3Ns, push mode etc.  Having said that, I did feel that the removal of the Italian kits from the spawn menu was a bit sad.

All the talk in the run up to the patch was about how the Tiger would dominate the map, with the betatester's comments about the beaufighter going unheaded.  Oh how they were right.  There is no point shooting it down, because its back up again in less than a minute (50 second spawn time).  And you can't hide the tiger from it without effectivly disabling it (from a presence perspective).  Given the opportunity; I'd increase the spawn time of figters to 60 seconds, of bombers to 2 mins - which might also make pilots land instead of just bailing and waiting for a respawn.

I'd also increase the push mode to include all of the flags.  There would be a second line of attact going to Toujane, then to Matmata and the bunker, then from both to the Gap.  You'd need both the Gap and Mareth to get the Gabes flags.  The purpose of this would be to mainly stop sneak attacks made using the piper, and it follows the route that is generally taken by players anyway.

And I would like to know what happened to the Italian kits.  I know their tanks went to bring the number of texture sheets down, but I wasn't aware that this also was the case with the kits as well.  I was long looking forward to going sniping around the bunker with a carcano carbine, and I miss defending gabes with the beretta.

Other than that, I think this is another brilliant map.  Lots of space for some intresting battles using all the arms, but where none can claim to be dominant.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 06-05-2009, 01:05:36
Good suggestion about longer bomber spawns. Mareth is getting boring because the plane whores are doing their usual thing and just making a beeline for the city, dropping bombs on Tiger spawn, then back to base for a reload.

 Maybe it would help if the Tiger spawned elsewhere, or if it had better AA positions around its' spawnpoint.
The Flak88 in Gabes doesn't help much due to its location and the Vierling38 while it is a beast, has no chance of hitting any planes until they have passed over the airfield.

The Tiger in my opinion, spawns in the wrong place anyways. I have this fantasy of it spawning at Teqaba gap so that it becomes less vulnerable to planewhores, is less susceptible to TK mines, and also has more than one way to leave its' base. (there is only one way out of Gabes, so it is far too easy to just mine the main road thus blocking all armour)

 One other thing that bugs me about Mareth is: Why can't we drive the Sahariana as an Allied soldier?
The Sahariana was employed by both the Axis and Allied powers due to its' exceptional desert capabilities and i don't understand why that fact isn't reflected in game..
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 07-05-2009, 16:05:34
currently allies always win becouse of the forward spawn + huge armor and air superority + the fact that half the german team must move out to cap the empty flags.

The empty flags seem a bit ... unlogical at this map. It would be more logical if axis got these flags from the start, so allies need to push trough. It seems to me that the flags where put blanck in the original mapsetup, inorder to let allies get a chance to get trough the line. However, since allies now spawn closer and have more bridges to cross, I think they no longer need this previlage, and the flags should go to axis so they can prepair a decent defence
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Fuchs on 07-05-2009, 20:05:12
One other thing that bugs me about Mareth is: Why can't we drive the Sahariana as an Allied soldier?
The Sahariana was employed by both the Axis and Allied powers due to its' exceptional desert capabilities and i don't understand why that fact isn't reflected in game..
I agree with most of the stuff you said but want to comment on this,
I think the Sahariana is locked for allies because it's like an armoured car (sdkfz 222, marmon-herrington) because it got a very big Solothurn and multiple MG's. Solothurn is like a real cannon if you ask me.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Lobo on 07-05-2009, 23:05:16
currently allies always win becouse...

The map spawns a shinny tiger, at least this was the reason time ago. It's hard to win a map if half your team is doing something stupid.

Let us know if now the tiger has lost its magnet factor to know if the map really has a balance issue or has not solution unless we remove it  ::)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Eat Uranium on 08-05-2009, 00:05:09
Let us know if now the tiger has lost its magnet factor to know if the map really has a balance issue or has not solution unless we remove it  ::)
Much of the imbalence is due a ton of Brit tanks at the beggining of the round facing a defensive line that could do with more Paks.  All the tanks are there of course to help against the tiger, but that doesn't appear for at least 7-8 minutes in (and even then it gets bombed 4 times out of 5 before leaving Gabes).

Removing the Tiger would be stupid.  All your teams hard work for nothing.  Currently, I think that the Brits could loose one or two starting tanks, and the germans could gain an extra starting Pz3J.  Prehaps you could put some of the starting brit tanks on a dummy flag that spawns them when the Tiger does.  I also think that the grey flags should start off German as well.  The most important thing of course would be to massivly up the spawn time of the Beaufighter.

To sum up:
-No grey flags at start
-Less Brit tanks at start
-Some more Paks
-Long spawn time on the beaufighter.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 08-05-2009, 00:05:56
 I think the front line is ok as is but the map does have some issues.

 1) The Beaufighter spawns too often and reloads too quickly.
 2) The Tiger in Africa was prey to the CHURCHILL and 6 pounders, not to bloody airplanes. In fact, aerial sorties in North Africa were subject to weather restrictions that hampered regular sorties by both the Axis and Allied powers. In essence, Mareth 64 is far too reliant on airpower, more so than any historical accounts will vouch for.
 3) The flak defence in Gabes allows for unopposed plane rape of the tank spawn area and certainly deserves better tweaking.
 4) Move the Tiger elsewhere please, it is too vulnerable to grief actions by players in its' current location.


 I will confess right now to tk'ing bastards who jack the Tiger when someone else was first in line. Probably every second time I play Mareth 64, I have to make such threats and from time to time, I will ensure that hijacker never makes it past the Sahariana or at the very latest, they will not make it through the front entrance to Gabes.

Until the Tiger is more widely available in other maps, we will have to constantly deal with the grief tactics most tank and plane whores employ and I for one, would appreciate some map tweaks to put those griefer bitches in their place.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Lobo on 08-05-2009, 00:05:58
I will try to play the map to get a first hand experience of those issues in this stage and I can agree with some of those suggestions like the beaufighter spawn time, and maybe the grey flags but...let's see, the frontline (mareth and toujane) has: 4 pak 40's, 1 flak 18 and 1 marder, all of them heavy hitters...if axis can't put a fight with this is because too many axis players are doing nothing in the tiger spawn like it was the 2001 monolyte.

And sheik, the vierling is the most brutal AA ingame and is right in the airfield, don't tell me allied planes can rape Gabes with no oposition, c'mon (+the village flak18)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: sheikyerbouti on 08-05-2009, 01:05:35
And sheik, the vierling is the most brutal AA ingame and is right in the airfield, don't tell me allied planes can rape Gabes with no oposition, c'mon (+the village flak18)
( Please note that I edited your quote for brevity.)

 There are particular approaches the flyboys take that make the airfield Vierling only effective after the Beaufighter has dropped its bombs. The village Flak18 also has a very obstructed line of fire thus rendering it impotent in its main role.


 Off to watch the hockey game so I cannot reply until much later,
GO CANUCKS GO
BLACKHAWKS DOWN!!!
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Nerdsturm on 08-05-2009, 01:05:36
I will try to play the map to get a first hand experience of those issues in this stage and I can agree with some of those suggestions like the beaufighter spawn time, and maybe the grey flags but...let's see, the frontline (mareth and toujane) has: 4 pak 40's, 1 flak 18 and 1 marder, all of them heavy hitters...if axis can't put a fight with this is because too many axis players are doing nothing in the tiger spawn like it was the 2001 monolyte.

I agree that the front lines have plenty of AT guns for the current number of allied tanks, especially since the 88 is in such a great position. In my experience all these AT guns end up making things a lot harder for the tiger too, since its first destination is usually back to Mareth if it can get out of Gabes and avoid the Beaufighter.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 08-05-2009, 17:05:32
Quote
currently allies always win becouse...


The map spawns a shinny tiger, at least this was the reason time ago. It's hard to win a map if half your team is doing something stupid.

Let us know if now the tiger has lost its magnet factor to know if the map really has a balance issue or has not solution unless we remove it 

Yes lobo this was the case the first week the map came out, but the situation has been normalised on publics regarding this matter (or at least the times I played the map).

Hence, I've seen a situation where nobody took the tiger, and it was rotting in the town.

Quote
-No grey flags at start

Agree

Quote
-Less Brit tanks at start

I don't entrirely agree. maybe one sherman less and a grant more, but it is sowhat balanced. Note that if axis get all the flags, axis also get more tanks from the start, therefore, it is fine as it is.

Quote
-Some more Paks

I don't agree. PAK's do get spammed by artillery or aircraft all the time, but this counts for evry map. fine as it is.

Quote
-Long spawn time on the beaufighter.

sowhat agree. It does respawn rather fast, but then again the game is more action driven then FH1.maybe a few more seconds (10 ? )but nothing to drastic.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Lobo on 08-05-2009, 23:05:15
well, I played a round at hslan this evening, 64 players, nice round and british won 46-0, heavy fight for mareth and toujane, tegaba sometimes, this doesn't show a bad balance, quite the oposite

and germans were sloppy to take the grey flags and start the bleed, so hmmm, no, I don't believe is a good idea to change the initial flags layout.

I will play more rounds to get a better overview of balance but maybe it needs less radical changes: slight adjustement of tickets, beau respawn time and so on
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hslan.Faust on 09-05-2009, 00:05:11
well, as usual you played it from the allied perspective.

and friday night is NOT the most representative time.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Lobo on 09-05-2009, 00:05:42
Must we balance the map for a special day and hour, sir, saturday 5 o'clock perhaps?, we can have a tea.

I played the side choosen by the server
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Toddel on 10-05-2009, 13:05:01
faust be a bit more constructive. whats the problem of the map? if there is one.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: alburdy on 19-05-2009, 00:05:13
My proposal is, actually, not especially for this (Mareth) and I think anyhow that this was already regulated.

Still I want to mark this over again or ask for; namely whether to her has new exported the Saharina again?

Since the thing is really nice, but it drives itself like the DeLorean from "Back to the Future II", because the wheels do not turn.

However, maybe it is also a general problem because of the takeover from FH1.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Cory the Otter on 16-06-2009, 15:06:27
people don't use that old French bunker as much as they should. Maybe if it was made so that you had to take that first before others, It would see the action it deserves, since its such a beautiful bunker.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kubador on 16-06-2009, 22:06:51
people don't use that old French bunker as much as they should. Maybe if it was made so that you had to take that first before others, It would see the action it deserves, since its such a beautiful bunker.

IIRC there are many bunkers so could you be more specific?
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 16-06-2009, 22:06:40
people don't use that old French bunker as much as they should. Maybe if it was made so that you had to take that first before others, It would see the action it deserves, since its such a beautiful bunker.

IIRC there are many bunkers so could you be more specific?

The Warrior is never specific, he's in it for the post count.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Cory the Otter on 16-06-2009, 22:06:12
I mean the old french bunker. In the middle of the map above Toujane.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kubador on 16-06-2009, 22:06:14
Battle for posts, eh? Anyway it got me thinking about the command bunker. I think that the way people can atack it should be more restricted. I.e. incapability to atack from hill becouse now IMHO it's not much of a defence position since a tank can camp on the hill mowing everyone who spawns there. Making hills more peaky should do the trick.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Cory the Otter on 16-06-2009, 22:06:46
Yeah, Rommell's command bunker.

An, yeah. Maybe put a minefield near the botom or something, not too drastic.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: General_Henry on 17-06-2009, 12:06:55
Battle for posts, eh? Anyway it got me thinking about the command bunker. I think that the way people can atack it should be more restricted. I.e. incapability to atack from hill becouse now IMHO it's not much of a defence position since a tank can camp on the hill mowing everyone who spawns there. Making hills more peaky should do the trick.

there have been extensive hikings there too.

and as always i think a push system around it is necessary so there won't be too much backcappings.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Venous on 02-07-2009, 18:07:12
This map crashes my game/kicks me out atleast 4-5 times everytime its on.

Usually the game freeze for about 20 sec and then I get connection interrupted and get kicked out after. This can happen on any map but not so often..its just on mareth it happens every time + ctd's. Usually it goes like this...freeze, kick, join again, freeze, kick, join again, ctd.

It's VERY annoying.. why does this happen so often on mareth?

Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ionizer on 02-07-2009, 19:07:37
This map crashes my game/kicks me out atleast 4-5 times everytime its on.

Usually the game freeze for about 20 sec and then I get connection interrupted and get kicked out after. This can happen on any map but not so often..its just on mareth it happens every time + ctd's. Usually it goes like this...freeze, kick, join again, freeze, kick, join again, ctd.

It's VERY annoying.. why does this happen so often on mareth?



You're a pilot, aren't you?  Mareth loves to boot pilots for some reason.  Maybe the speed of the plane is too fast and the game tries to render too many things at once.  Or maybe something to do with the dummy flags.  Who knows.  But the fact is that Mareth Line hates pilots.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Aggroman on 02-07-2009, 19:07:38
It don't hates noob pilots.
I can fly on it without any crashes or something.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Venous on 02-07-2009, 23:07:01
It doesn't matter what I'm doing it crashes anyway.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 04-07-2009, 12:07:03
At the moment, it is rather difficult for the brits to capture the front lines. The beaufigther alone, issent enough to silince the Pak40"s   + flak18+Marder.

The imbalance with this map lies, when the british finnaly capture Mareth. From their on= The germans get one tiger tank, one Panzer IV ausf F2, and 2 Panzers 3. These have to face 6-7 shermans and 5-6 Crusader MK3 + 2 Deacons. My advise

1.Additional marder spawns in Upper gabes
2.Another Panzer III ausf J1 in Gabes
3.More defenses

Normally, i defend the British, because they always have a hard time playing, but once Mareth is captured, the Other flags soon follow.However, i saw many times where the Germans now got out of Gabes, winning the hell out of the british
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Fuchs on 04-07-2009, 13:07:31
But thats more realistic Tao, I always find this map fun with current gameplay so here is my defence: the first base is very hard to break for the Brits, realistic since the Mareth Line was a damn good defensive line. After that the Brits have alot of tanks and the Germans only have a few, this is also realistic, if I'm correct (this is not just battle of Mareth but all troops in North-Africa) it was a mere 30,000 Germans and (very unsure about this) 50,000 Italians versus 250,000 Americans and British (after Torch ofcourse).
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 04-07-2009, 13:07:41
True true, but when Gabes is surrounded  ;D >:(

The fun begins

I actually enjoy being british then, all those times im tank spawnraped on Alam halfa, Mersa matruh..


Revenge  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hslan.Corvax on 15-07-2009, 02:07:21
The Beaufigher should be removed .. Tiger is totaly helpless on that map. It cant leave the town because its a too easy bomber target and its useless inside gabes.

Better add a Spit or Hurry with some small bombs, which damage it hardly but wont knock it out instantly.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Torenico on 15-07-2009, 02:07:17
No.

The Beaufighter is the best weapon the british have in this map, removing it would be stupid.

Then the tiger would be 10 times more harder to kill.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 15-07-2009, 17:07:28
Dont count on other weapons to kill the tiger tank. Once that thing is out of gabes, the only thing that can kill it is the Beaufighter
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 15-07-2009, 18:07:25
and PaK40, Sherman, Crusader, Tellermine, 88, Deacon...
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Aggroman on 15-07-2009, 19:07:39
Yeah, if you want to kill the tiger, you can kill the tiger.
Once a pak40 shot me down, there are many things that you can use to kill it.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: bosco on 15-07-2009, 19:07:13
Yeah, if you want to kill the tiger, you can kill the tiger.
Once a pak40 shot me down, there are many things that you can use to kill it.

Marder, for example.  ;D
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hslan.Corvax on 17-07-2009, 13:07:28
Gee Tiger is such an easy kill. 2 hits from a Pak, 3 Hits from a Sherman or Crusader .. You can knoch it out alone before it even sees you because its so slow and clumsy. But right now the Tiger has absolutley NO use. It spawns and gets bombed. Hardly any Tiger driver can score even one hit before he get blown to dust.

Its a totaly useless Tank on that map. I always choose the P4 over the tiger even if i could take it, just because it dont attracts bombers that much and you can actually use it harm the enemy, not just to make them "TIIIIGEEERRR" chatspam all over.

You guys should really consider this.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ts4EVER on 17-07-2009, 13:07:28
I killed only one Tiger in my FH2 career, with a captured pak40 round to the front turret.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Fuchs on 17-07-2009, 16:07:41
Yeah, if you want to kill the tiger, you can kill the tiger.
Once a pak40 shot me down, there are many things that you can use to kill it.

Marder, for example.  ;D
You can TK it but I think Aggro means other things..
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Torenico on 18-07-2009, 05:07:33
I havent killed the Tiger yet.

For Example, if he makes out of the City, he gets bombed probably, if he DOESNT get bombed, he gets killed by a Flak88 in the North flag, i dont remember its name.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 18-07-2009, 12:07:50
Once saw a stuka Teamkilling a tiger

Direct bomb hit with the 250KG bomb
but the pilot's response was even more funnier=Arent u a sherman???
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hslan.Corvax on 18-07-2009, 13:07:46
Tiger is a real teamkill magnet as it seems. Once saw a fully loaded Saharian speeding out of gabes where a fairly damaged tiger with like 4 guys on it was retreating into the city. The Saharian crashed with full speed into the tigers rear which resulted in like 9 teamkills xD
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Lobo on 18-07-2009, 21:07:38
I killed only one Tiger in my FH2 career, with a captured pak40 round to the front turret.

Me too, in our betatests, and I felt like God...the boasting was truly epic, we had our tommy fun, that's sure
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ekalbs on 19-07-2009, 01:07:41
ive never personally gotten to use the tiger nor kill it. Today was the first day ever playing mareth i watched the British loose. They never made it across the trench? Also the beufighter was always down? so there is balance here. in fact i was going to complain about the unevenness today :p but dont have to so yay! it just takes a good team to win as germans.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 19-07-2009, 15:07:11
that is just becouse evry noob jumps in and drives it.

I bet if the German army would have given a tiger to evry fresh recruit, things would be disasterous to.

If a pro like me gets in , it's HELL for allies :P. But I sowhat agree that it is in a unhappy position.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: W4lt3r on 20-07-2009, 10:07:54
Hell, even the 25 pdr's can keep that thing out of commision.. Just a decent spot to the tank depot and the brit arty just zeroes in with AP. Once it spawns, bam and dead tiger.
So far the best tiger I've seen got up to upper Gabes before it drove to a mine.

Is it possible to create a dummy flag that is active when germans have the Mareth (or the middle flag, cant recall the name) that keeps a DoD (Dome of Death) around Gabes which would prevent any too eager brits out of there until they have the middle flag.

Brits having the middle flag - dummy flag goes offline - DoD disappears and brits can try to storm the Gabes.
Way too many times brits are more in Gabes spawn killing the germans then trying to cap the necessary flag.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Slayer on 23-07-2009, 16:07:29
I think you have a point there, W4lt3r, but that way you would make Mareth more of a pushmap. That has been discussed before, and it was rejected IIRC.

As Brits can't cap any Gabes flags before they have Mareth, it is just very boring to be in Gabes at such a time. Also, when Germans have Mareth, they should be able to stop any Brits trying to sneak through to Gabes.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: djinn on 05-10-2009, 17:10:51
AI considerations

Now this is probably the only NA map with absolutely no history of any AI so it cannot be a criticism, but I can suggest a few things from MP play

The Stuka
These can play a big part if coded to strafe-run and dive from great heights or actually fly like the beau-fighter
Also, it will make it quite interesting to see these operating with divehorns just before a decided strafing run or target-divebokmb

Beaufighter
Similar to the Stuka with more purpose in its strafing run since it has cannons rather than simple mgs

Armor
Now I foresee great battles in this map if the roads and open desert is well coded. In addition, 88s and AT guns should be of great use as defensive lines - It will be quite sad to have these silent, otherwise it will play like another Supercharge with entire defenses being bypassed without event - The tiger will certainly be the main thrill in this map

The bunker
Let those ATs defending this base function quite effectively in killing tank support and have the trench well pathmapped to aid in underground capture of the flag and NOT external capture - The flag cap radius may need to be reduced for this to be the case

Please code the flakvierling all other AAs to be used well

Infantry
Inspite of everything, this map will probably be of most interest in SP if these remain the main focus - A guy should have fun playing as infantry, with great concern for a sudden death playing as armor without infantry AT riflemen covering, or in a tank group. Infantry combat should make use of, besides effective small arms fire, mg positions, AT and 88 HE fire, AA ground attack with all guns and grenades in town settings

I really do look foward to this map and sure hope it does live up what I and many other SPers hope for it

especially since, like El Al ans Supercharge, it is the only map in NA with medium and heavy tanks like the Sherman and Tiger, with air cover for both air combat and ground pounding and a fairly strong infantry close-quarters and long-range combat design, lacking in El Al and woefully damaged in Supercharge's current existence


Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ionizer on 16-10-2009, 09:10:52
Hey, umm...  The German Airfield still doesn't repair planes when they are parked on it.  It rearms them, but doesn't repair them.  Kinda lame.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kubador on 28-11-2009, 17:11:19
Hey, umm...  The German Airfield still doesn't repair planes when they are parked on it.  It rearms them, but doesn't repair them.  Kinda lame.

Maybe that's becouse it simulates the lack of resources on german side. If not, I agree it's quite annoying for a pilot.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Torenico on 01-01-2010, 07:01:39
I wonder why the L6/40 is no more in this map. Using it was soo fun, confusing allied tanks with your little 20mm Cannon, damn i miss it alot :P.

 Underpowered tank but a M13/40 could be in its place untill a more powerfull italian tank, the Semovente 75/18 replaces it and represents the Italian Army Situation during that battle.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: ajappat on 05-01-2010, 11:01:05
I wonder why the L6/40 is no more in this map. Using it was soo fun, confusing allied tanks with your little 20mm Cannon, damn i miss it alot :P.

 Underpowered tank but a M13/40 could be in its place untill a more powerfull italian tank, the Semovente 75/18 replaces it and represents the Italian Army Situation during that battle.

Yes I loved that thing, I once assaulted commander bunker with it. I killed tons of enemies, bounced 88 shot off my front armor ( ::)) and secured the place for my teammates to come in from mountains.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ionizer on 27-01-2010, 22:01:14
I haven't played this map since 2.25 came out.  Does the German airfield repair planes now?  It never did before.  The Allied Airfield always repaired their planes...
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 15-03-2010, 23:03:58
And how about giving it a churchill or two? And btw, it was in Tunisia where the Tiger no 131 was disabled by -yep, you guessed it- a Churchill Mk.III
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Eat Uranium on 15-03-2010, 23:03:48
Requires a Mk.III model to be made, and/or and african skin.  Also would require removal of something else to keep texture load small and stable.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 15-03-2010, 23:03:45
Comparing the data between mk.III and mk.IV the only difference is that mk.IV has cast turret as mk.III has welded one. Same armor values though. So theoretically just a reskin of mk.IV could do it.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Thorondor123 on 15-03-2010, 23:03:38
No, because the turret is different.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Steel_Lion_FIN on 15-03-2010, 23:03:03
Theoretically, ie. stopgap, placeholder. You get the idea.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-03-2010, 22:03:33
Needs Churchill MKIII
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 21-03-2010, 15:03:23
No it doesnt. Map is heavy as it is, it doesnt require such vehicle to add up to it.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 21-03-2010, 16:03:02
No it doesnt. Map is heavy as it is, it doesnt require such vehicle to add up to it.
Give allies less tanks in beginning, and when tiger spawns, churchill spawns

All round this map needs=
Another Pz ausf F2
Churchill MKIII

And not just because i love churchills, its because they where present during the assault on the mareth line

If the tiger gets added, the churchill should aswel their are perfect ways to balance things
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 21-03-2010, 22:03:38
I think you didn´t understood Flippy correct. With the engine not the total number of vehicles is important, but the number of DIFFERENT vehicles. For every different static, vehicle, weapon, whatever the PC needs to load the new model and texture. That eats performance and makes the map unstable, when you add too many different things. Atm Mareth and El Ala are hard on that limit, so just removing some Crusaders/Shermans wouldn´t fit it, as you have to completly remove a whole vehicletype.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: djinn on 25-03-2010, 08:03:12
Of all the African maps, this is the one that most needs SP support - It will be so cool! Tanks as big as that in El Alamein, bigger than the ones in Alam Halfa.. Some open areas, some narrow roads, some towns, chunky mg and AT defenses, airplanes!

Sp-devs, pl-lease!
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: ajappat on 26-03-2010, 11:03:58
Give allies less tanks in beginning, and when tiger spawns, churchill spawns

All round this map needs=
Another Pz ausf F2
Churchill MKIII

And not just because i love churchills, its because they where present during the assault on the mareth line

If the tiger gets added, the churchill should aswel their are perfect ways to balance things

Like Tiger was somehow too good. It usually can't get out from Gabes and yet you want heavy tank for allies to counter it...
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Die Happy on 26-03-2010, 14:03:11
you are right thetao  churchill was present ther but

Like Tiger was somehow too good. It usually can't get out from Gabes and yet you want heavy tank for allies to counter it...

this is also right

and the map already got stripped of many thing to increase the performance. adding another new vehicle might make it unplayable.

anyway not my decision, i am all for the more stuff on maps better but i got a PC who can handle that stuff ;) 
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: psykfallet on 26-03-2010, 16:03:55
I think you didn´t understood Flippy correct. With the engine not the total number of vehicles is important, but the number of DIFFERENT vehicles. For every different static, vehicle, weapon, whatever the PC needs to load the new model and texture. That eats performance and makes the map unstable, when you add too many different things. Atm Mareth and El Ala are hard on that limit, so just removing some Crusaders/Shermans wouldn´t fit it, as you have to completly remove a whole vehicletype.
So is BF2 more unstable than BF42? Because I could swear there were more different vehicles in some maps and it was more stable, Prokahrovka and Seelow comes to mind and ofc Alpenfestung..
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 26-03-2010, 16:03:42
BF42 allows by far more different weapon and vehicle assets than BF2 does. In FH we could have dozens and dozens of different things ranging from stationary mg's, anti-tank guns, artillery, cars, planes, tanks... In BF2 we unfortunately have huge restrictions how many types of different vehicles we can have. If we have a specific version of some specific tank, we can have quite a good number of them before things gets iffy. But if just have a few different versions of the same tank, the texture load stacks up and then shit starts to hit the fan.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: psykfallet on 26-03-2010, 22:03:59
Terrible news  :'( .. hm well if you remove say, the ammo truck, and only have ammo kits/ command drops and add churchill would that work, or perhaps the universal carrier, hardly anyone uses it.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hslan.totaler_humbug on 27-03-2010, 18:03:15
But both have far superior numbers than the 12 Churchills  :P
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: psykfallet on 28-03-2010, 15:03:53
yep, but Im sure other vehicles are missing too, like there is no normal Brit transport truck. It's whatever works best for the map.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 03-04-2010, 21:04:55
you are right thetao  churchill was present ther but

Like Tiger was somehow too good. It usually can't get out from Gabes and yet you want heavy tank for allies to counter it...

this is also right

and the map already got stripped of many thing to increase the performance. adding another new vehicle might make it unplayable.

anyway not my decision, i am all for the more stuff on maps better but i got a PC who can handle that stuff ;) 
Well if mareth doesnt have one, fine

But El alamein is DEFIANTLY a map wich needs a churchill tank. Simply, the King force V was a major action, well known to the british public. Far more important to add then the tiger on mareth for instance
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hankypanky on 04-04-2010, 01:04:48
This map is a real pain for the Germans. Everyone knows were the anti tank guns are, and they usually get raped to hell by planes. Not to mention that the German is horribly starved of tanks. Every time I play this map as Germans, I get raped by 5000 Sherman jesus christ tanks. The anti tank rifle is fucking useless, so I gotta zerg rush em with satchel. Zerg rushes don't work well with deserts :( Anyway the only way I have fun with this map is to whore the Mauder, and kill a million cocky Shermans. Other than the mauder and the AA gun at the back flag (forgot name), I really don't have much fun with this map. That's just my opinion.

By the way just recently I murdered a Tiger, by putting 2 75mm rounds in his engine :) If anything the Germans need more heavy tanks !
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 06-04-2010, 21:04:29
What that map needs is only more exits from gabes.And maybe an extra Panzer IV F2
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Ionizer on 06-04-2010, 22:04:25
What that map needs is only more exits from gabes.And maybe an extra Panzer IV F2

What it needs is the short grappling hooks back in.  In fact, all maps need them back in.  For the record, I know they clash with the long PdH Hooks, I just figure there has to be a way around it...
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kubador on 07-04-2010, 01:04:44
Germans should get ticket bleed when they remain with gabes only.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: psykfallet on 09-04-2010, 15:04:26
Germans need all flags from beginning. Brits know how to play it now so they win 99%. Can you also change so it doesnt take 15mins for the german commander to get arty strikes. And please fix the tank spawns..
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Die Happy on 09-04-2010, 16:04:38
whats wrong with the tank spawns ?
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kubador on 13-04-2010, 05:04:02
I think he means that german tanks spawn even if gabes is taken by brits. Unfortunately this map has much 'connections' between vehicle spawn and flag ownership. Long story short, it can't be changed.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: ajappat on 18-04-2010, 18:04:13
I think Tebaga Gap needs more transport vehichles. Many times it's only flag or closest flag to attack other flags, but there's only one ammo truck. Can't break gameplay too badly if you add 1 or 2 trucks there?
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kubador on 19-04-2010, 03:04:10
I think Tebaga Gap needs more transport vehichles. Many times it's only flag or closest flag to attack other flags, but there's only one ammo truck. Can't break gameplay too badly if you add 1 or 2 trucks there?

^THAT
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 22-04-2010, 23:04:52
I think Tebaga Gap needs more transport vehichles. Many times it's only flag or closest flag to attack other flags, but there's only one ammo truck. Can't break gameplay too badly if you add 1 or 2 trucks there?

^THAT
and this^

Maybe an uni carrier for british, and hanomag for germans, along with an regular truck for both sides
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hankypanky on 23-04-2010, 14:04:07
So I'm the only one here who thinks this map is a British whorefest?
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-04-2010, 16:04:26
So I'm the only one here who thinks this map is a British whorefest?
But the map is a german campfest in the beginning.

The british have 3 ways to cross the river. 2 of wich are heavily defended and one wich makes you still face the defense line. Go ahead, but it is NOT easy to break this line.

Once all those flags are captured and gabes is surrounded, THEN it is a whorefest. But their are TONS of german whorefest maps. This is the worst-case scenario for the germans anyway.

Mareth line is simply a map wich require's teamwork. If the british dont cooperate, they wont even cross the river. If the germans dont cooperate in defending, then they will get smashed very fast..

However i have to agree.
Mareth line would need an extra Panzer IV Ausf F2 and some extra ways out of gabe's
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Kelmola on 23-04-2010, 19:04:55
If the teams are balanced, then the Brits have hard time even getting the first two flags (until the PaK40's run out of ammo, that is). If the British team sucks, they have no chance. If the German team sucks, however, then we could discuss whether to make the "endgame" in Gabes more exciting.

Extra panzers should probably spawn only after Germans really are circled in Gabes, and when discussing about adding ways out, one must remember that they are ways in as well.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Dnarag1M on 23-04-2010, 20:04:34
So I'm the only one here who thinks this map is a British whorefest?
But the map is a german campfest in the beginning.

The british have 3 ways to cross the river. 2 of wich are heavily defended and one wich makes you still face the defense line. Go ahead, but it is NOT easy to break this line.

Once all those flags are captured and gabes is surrounded, THEN it is a whorefest. But their are TONS of german whorefest maps. This is the worst-case scenario for the germans anyway.

Mareth line is simply a map wich require's teamwork. If the british dont cooperate, they wont even cross the river. If the germans dont cooperate in defending, then they will get smashed very fast..

However i have to agree.
Mareth line would need an extra Panzer IV Ausf F2 and some extra ways out of gabe's

I dont really get the point. Every single time I played mareth as Axis Allied I managed to sneak in their west base without much trouble (2-3 attempts if they have anti infantry coverage which they usually dont because our tanks clean that up) .

It's really simple and I'll tell you how :

(A) (singlehanded, rambo-style)

1) Spawn as anti-tank
2) blow up the front Pak40 with your anti-tank gun (2 shots p00f)
3) blow up the rear Pak40 with your anti-tank gun (4-5 shots, harder to hit but works)
4) kill any infantry posing a threat to entering the riverbed
5) enter riverbed
6) walk to the far west, enter village, stab Flak88 dude.
7) take the flak88, shoot the camping pz III at upper road
8] switch to explosive, shoot the upper pak40 that is repaired by now
9) done.

(B) Squadleader
1) Follow steps 1 to 5
2) Sit outside of wall, have 2-3 teammates spawn on you and do the above or just take flag...

voila.

In a dozen rounds as axis allied, never failed....
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hankypanky on 24-04-2010, 12:04:15
I have had some great rounds with the mauder (my fav N africa tank). However once the British smash the first line of defense the Germans are fucked. You always have noobs taking the few tanks available, and you end up getting wtf pwned by 9000 shermans. Seriously almost every time I play this map the British win. Even the German arty is badly placed in an area where you can easily get killed. You guys may have different experiences, but once that first line of defense is broken, the map becomes a Sherman rape fest. The 88 gets bombed or sniped, and you arty will always smash the guns. Oh ya about the Tiger, damn thing always gets bombed. Hell a month ago I knocked out a Tiger with my Sherman.     

Oh well at least the mauder is fun :)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hankypanky on 24-04-2010, 12:04:11
So I'm the only one here who thinks this map is a British whorefest?
But the map is a german campfest in the beginning.

The british have 3 ways to cross the river. 2 of wich are heavily defended and one wich makes you still face the defense line. Go ahead, but it is NOT easy to break this line.

Once all those flags are captured and gabes is surrounded, THEN it is a whorefest. But their are TONS of german whorefest maps. This is the worst-case scenario for the germans anyway.

Mareth line is simply a map wich require's teamwork. If the british dont cooperate, they wont even cross the river. If the germans dont cooperate in defending, then they will get smashed very fast..

However i have to agree.
Mareth line would need an extra Panzer IV Ausf F2 and some extra ways out of gabe's

I dont really get the point. Every single time I played mareth as Axis I managed to sneak in their west base without much trouble (2-3 attempts if they have anti infantry coverage which they usually dont because our tanks clean that up) .

It's really simple and I'll tell you how :

(A) (singlehanded, rambo-style)

1) Spawn as anti-tank
2) blow up the front Pak40 with your anti-tank gun (2 shots p00f)
3) blow up the rear Pak40 with your anti-tank gun (4-5 shots, harder to hit but works)
4) kill any infantry posing a threat to entering the riverbed
5) enter riverbed
6) walk to the far west, enter village, stab Flak88 dude.
7) take the flak88, shoot the camping pz III at upper road
8] switch to explosive, shoot the upper pak40 that is repaired by now
9) done.

(B) Squadleader
1) Follow steps 1 to 5
2) Sit outside of wall, have 2-3 teammates spawn on you and do the above or just take flag...

voila.

In a dozen rounds as axis, never failed....

Wait why are you shooting a pz III as axis???
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Dnarag1M on 24-04-2010, 13:04:26
Minor fuckup ...that should have read ALLIED ofc. ;) But most people would probably know from the text ;)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hankypanky on 24-04-2010, 15:04:58
Minor fuckup ...that should have read ALLIED ofc. ;) But most people would probably know from the text ;)
lol I see you wouldn't want to shoot your own tanks XD Thanks for backing up my point. Sorry to say but there needs to be some sort of effective fall back line. The 88 at communication is totally useless. The only considerable defense is that rear flag (forgot name). Once that main line is broken communication gets raped by Shermans, and the game becomes an allied tank fest. 
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 25-04-2010, 21:04:10
Yet the germans did not have much tanks at that point. Shall we make it like goodwood?where IRL 760 allied tanks battle'd 110 german ones, yet in FH2 it is 10 allied tanks vs 7 german ones? of wich only 2 allied tanks have comparable firepower?

No thanks.
It only become's a whorefest when all flags are captured. Their are tons of ways of killing allied tanks.

Stuka's can bombard everything withouth even one AA gun. Mines can be placed easily around tegaba. Panzers can drive on hills, making them difficult to spot. That single marder at Mareth is a serious pain in the ass alone.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hankypanky on 26-04-2010, 00:04:54
Yet the germans did not have much tanks at that point. Shall we make it like goodwood?where IRL 760 allied tanks battle'd 110 german ones, yet in FH2 it is 10 allied tanks vs 7 german ones? of wich only 2 allied tanks have comparable firepower?

No thanks.
It only become's a whorefest when all flags are captured. Their are tons of ways of killing allied tanks.

Stuka's can bombard everything withouth even one AA gun. Mines can be placed easily around tegaba. Panzers can drive on hills, making them difficult to spot. That single marder at Mareth is a serious pain in the ass alone.
Trying to plant mines on open ground.... Most of the time it ends in fail. By now I think you should also know that you can't rely on pilots, most of the time they suck. I'm not asking for more tanks, just a stronger defensive line after Mareth falls. Most of the time I play allies win, so what difference would it make if you made the axis slightly stronger? lol man you sure love your allies, now that I have asked for  something axis your going to kill me :(

hmmm perhaps I can make a trade. Germans get stronger defense on other flags besides Mareth, and you get churchills. (jk this is up to the mapper not me). 
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 26-04-2010, 22:04:54
Yet the germans did not have much tanks at that point. Shall we make it like goodwood?where IRL 760 allied tanks battle'd 110 german ones, yet in FH2 it is 10 allied tanks vs 7 german ones? of wich only 2 allied tanks have comparable firepower?

No thanks.
It only become's a whorefest when all flags are captured. Their are tons of ways of killing allied tanks.

Stuka's can bombard everything withouth even one AA gun. Mines can be placed easily around tegaba. Panzers can drive on hills, making them difficult to spot. That single marder at Mareth is a serious pain in the ass alone.
Trying to plant mines on open ground.... Most of the time it ends in fail. By now I think you should also know that you can't rely on pilots, most of the time they suck. I'm not asking for more tanks, just a stronger defensive line after Mareth falls. Most of the time I play allies win, so what difference would it make if you made the axis slightly stronger? lol man you sure love your allies, now that I have asked for  something axis your going to kill me :(

hmmm perhaps I can make a trade. Germans get stronger defense on other flags besides Mareth, and you get churchills. (jk this is up to the mapper not me). 
Allow more exits out of gabes, give the jerries an extra panzer IV Ausf F2, and things will be a whole lot easier  ;)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Laffey on 25-07-2010, 01:07:18
Today we captured all of Gabes as British and the Germans only had Toujane and the Bunker left, and they werent bleeding. Germans should bleed if they lose Gabes in my opinion since its a very important outpost
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 30-07-2010, 01:07:20
the only real purpose of the bleeding system in FH is to force a team to attack rather then camp certain area's. Due to the importance of the flag, a bleed is not essentially needed since axis probably really would like to get their flag back
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 30-07-2010, 11:07:19
well sticking into gabes is indeed not the solution.bleed or not
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: [QPS]_Sex_Bomb on 05-09-2010, 16:09:03
the only real purpose of the bleeding system in FH is to force a team to attack rather then camp certain area's. Due to the importance of the flag, a bleed is not essentially needed since axis probably really would like to get their flag back

This map really needs a bleed when axis fail to hold the line leading to Tunisia.  What's the point of a line if it can be crushed by allies without any consequences?  IMO, bleeding represent a critical situation that should be restored as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Torenico on 05-02-2011, 01:02:01
Add the L6/40 back Plx.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 05-02-2011, 09:02:25
Add the L6/40 back Plx.
YES And add the canone 47 aswel with effecto pronto shells!
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Flippy Warbear on 08-02-2011, 07:02:05
Doubt thats possible. Map is heavy as all hell already. It cant have more of unique stuff.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Torenico on 09-02-2011, 03:02:26
Fuck the 222, that piece of crap replaced my awesome L6/40

222 is useless, you get Knifed, Sniped, Grenaded, Riflegrenaded, Smined, Webley-ed, screw it.

Atleast the L6 isnt open top and have weird driving ;)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: THeTA0123 on 10-02-2011, 19:02:11
And its italian, anything italian is epic

seriously the L6 was great to defend the flag it spawned on, and was also a +1 tank to defend gabes with
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: hyperanthropos on 27-11-2011, 11:11:36
Since the British airforce is pretty strong on this map and for example there is no flak defense for the Germans at Mareth I suggest to add the Sdkfz 7/1 (the one with the Flakvierling on top) to the map to give the Germans some capability to strike back.
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: LuckyOne on 28-09-2012, 19:09:16
Weren't some Valentines involved in this battle? I would love to see them used on more maps...


Although I can understand if the map is already asset heavy and the Churchills pretty much perform almost the same role of a slow-ass infantry tank...
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: Natty on 02-10-2012, 07:10:45
Please comment on the new game play layout the map received in 2.45
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: x4fun ODIUM on 21-06-2015, 17:06:31
(http://i.imgur.com/RFP2T2p.jpg)

This push code does not work.
Please reconsider. I have seen several games play out
and end in a dead lock like this. Gabes was lost eventually
and the whole team had to sit in the bunker for the
remaining 200 tickets and could not break out (crossed flags all around).

(Right click and choose "view image" for proper size.)
Title: Re: Mareth Line 64
Post by: MajorMajor on 10-08-2017, 20:08:25
I just had a very wierd expirience on Mareth Line. I was at the mountains north of Tegaba Gap, checking out a suspicious plane engine sound (pretty similar to the one when the Storch starts its engine). I looked around but there was no trace of the plane. My guess is that it was a bugged Storch wreck, since shortly after I saw the harmless explosion that happens when wrecks disappear.

I guess it's not really a map bug, but I thought it would do no harm to post this here.