Forgotten Hope Public Forum

Forgotten Hope 2 => Tactics & Tutorials => Topic started by: Folkhoer on 10-09-2009, 02:09:29

Title: Satchel charge
Post by: Folkhoer on 10-09-2009, 02:09:29
I sneaked up 5 tanks so far with a satchel, but all 5 times the satchel falls to the floor and doesnt lay on the tank. 4/5 times to tank drove off so I did no damage
In fh 2.15 you could place satchels on tanks, no? So what am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: DLFReporter on 10-09-2009, 07:09:39
check where you place them.
Most satchels will stay ontop when you look at the tank in a 45° angle and point at a horizontal area.
On sloped armour they will glide down most of the time.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Kubador on 10-09-2009, 11:09:38
Practice. Haold the satchel on a high view angle and even help yourself with a jump.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Kelmola on 10-09-2009, 13:09:08
Ahh, satcheling tanks, my favourite pasttime.

1.) Approach the tank from behind.
2.) You're not close enough.
3.) Stand behind the tank, and as said above, aim 45 degrees up.
4.) Throw the satchel charge so that it lands on the engine deck. It is flat so the charge will settle there, and it also has the weakest armour. If you're close enough the charge may even land on the turret roof. That's OK, it's flat and weakly armoured too.
5.) Turn around and run like hell for cover.
6.) ? ? ? ?
7.) PROFIT!

90% of the time, this kills the target outright. "Heavies" like Matilda/Valentine might survive, but even then, they will be burning and just a scratch from annihilation. Noob tankers will bail out and try to fix their tank WITHOUT driving to safety and/or checking their surroundings, so you might still get the driver this way. And if you're not spotted, you usually have a second satchel to throw.

If a light tank is too close to its buddy, you might get lucky and catch it in the blast wave too. Once on Bardia, I threw the Ladung on top of a Matilda; a Cruiser spotted me and overran me. However, it drove right next to the Matilda in in the process, so the when the charge blew up both tanks went up in flames. ;D
Title: C4
Post by: Kelmola on 10-11-2009, 20:11:05
The title says it all. How do you use it (especially against tanks)?

It seems that it cannot be thrown like the satchel charge, instead it just drops to the ground. So with the tall German tanks and Stugs in Normandy, getting it on top of the vulnerable engine deck is tricky to say the least. Usually, the C4 just falls to the ground, where its penetrating power is not enough to one-shot kittahs; Pz4 and StuGs might be killed by a close blast.

Am I doing it wrong, do you have some useful tips?
Title: Re: C4
Post by: Ionizer on 10-11-2009, 22:11:40
The US Composite B seems to work exactly like the British satchel, just in a smaller, less conspicuous package.  It might be tossed a shorter distance, but it shouldn't make much difference.

Anyway, like anything you throw in game (including grenades, mines, Gebault Ladung boxes, satchels, etc.), the Composite B pack travels farther if you jump while throwing it.  For max distance, time it so you release it at the peak of your jump.  It also might go farther if you run (or even better, sprint) before jumping.

Also note that satchel-type weapons aren't really supposed to be used offensively against tanks (you have Bazooka-type weapons for that), but are very good at destroying static defenses (like AT guns).  Probably related to this is that satchel-type weapons usually need at least two hits on the most common tanks (Shermans and Panzer 4s) to kill them, unless it was already damaged.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: Kelmola on 10-11-2009, 23:11:23
Thanks for advice. I sucked at basketball at school PE classes, so no wonder I never thought to jump while throwing ;) The Geballte Ladung flies well enough without jumping (your mileage may vary), but it was in Lebisey and Goodwood when I have despaired over the British explosive pack that doesn't seem to fly at all.

While there are stand-off AT kits in Normandy, there are times when you feel the need to do something (as opposed to hiding in the bushes). Like when you are on your way to fix something but are still in the middle of nowhere when opportunity strikes, ie. the kittah turns its tail to the unseen you, no friendly AT guys or tanks are nearby, and if you don't do something, it will tear your brothers in arms to pieces.

And I beg to differ about the damage. Delivered squarely on the engine deck, a satchel will more often than not knock out an undamaged medium tank (Grant, Sherman, Pz3, Pz4 etc.) in a single shot. Sometimes not, but that's why you have reloads - unlike the poor Panzerfaust guy. Heavies (Matilda, Valentine, Churchill, kittahs) of course need usually more than one dose.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: Eat Uranium on 10-11-2009, 23:11:17
Brit satchels and US comp B are pure shite for tank killing.  The comp B needs 5 on the engine deck to kill a panther (you carry 3).  Both take ages to leave your hands once you press the fire button.  Your better off throwing bandages at the panzers.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: THeTA0123 on 11-11-2009, 00:11:45
Brit satchels and US comp B are pure shite for tank killing.  The comp B needs 5 on the engine deck to kill a panther (you carry 3).  Both take ages to leave your hands once you press the fire button.  Your better off throwing bandages at the panzers.
^


Use bazooka's
Title: Re: C4
Post by: Ionizer on 11-11-2009, 00:11:55
Brit satchels and US comp B are pure shite for tank killing.  The comp B needs 5 on the engine deck to kill a panther (you carry 3).  Both take ages to leave your hands once you press the fire button.  Your better off throwing bandages at the panzers.

Reading through the changelog, it specifically says that this is for balance purposes.  All of these weapons take the same amount of time to switch to and deploy.  The Gebault Ladung is slightly better because it's delay is in the deploy animation and not the fire animation, meaning you can pull the box out ahead of time (screwing in the fuse, which acts as the delay), and then just rip out the fuse and toss it when the enemy tank rolls by.  Satchels and Comp B have the delay built into the "Fire" animation, meaning you can't effectively ambush tanks like that.

What exactly is happening when the dude fusses with the Comp B and Satchels in the Fire Animation?  We can't see it, because it's slightly off screen, all we see is the thing bobbing back and forth a bit.  If the dude is fitting a fuse or setting a timer or something, could it perhaps be incorporated into the "Deploy" Animation (which plays when you switch to the weapon) instead of the "Fire" Animation?  That way, no one could complain about the delay, because they would be seeing what's happening, and (if the delay was moved to the deploy animation instead of the fire animation) it would be equal between all the demolition weapons.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: General_Henry on 11-11-2009, 02:11:08
I like running into enemy strongholds, litter some composite B, and watch people get blew to sky.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: Zoologic on 11-11-2009, 07:11:46
Matilda need all 3 of your explosive stock to completely kill them. 2 to disable (seeing those fire sprouting from turret joints). Best to plant the bomb while they are stationary, i prefer to put it on the bottom rather than top. I guess that is a bit of realism sense here. I don't know if the game also simulate bottom armor thickness.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: hslan.Corvax on 11-11-2009, 15:11:06
Guess it does .. You can one shot even a king tiger with the piat if you hit its bottom (i pitty the tankers who drive over a slope with piat men lying behind it and getting one shotted from down under)

Never tried it with explosives tough ..
Title: Re: C4
Post by: phillip on 11-11-2009, 15:11:31
Brit satchels and US comp B are pure shite for tank killing.  The comp B needs 5 on the engine deck to kill a panther (you carry 3).  Both take ages to leave your hands once you press the fire button.  Your better off throwing bandages at the panzers.
^


Use bazooka's

The only reason I choose the Satchel kit is on accident.  The only time you can use it if you find an incompetent tanker (like myself) who is sitting still and has zero infantry support.  If he starts driving away you are screwed.   Piat or SMG.  I would MUUUCH rather have mp40, tommy, sten, bren,bar,etc,etc than a rifle and a satchel.  I don't think the satchels get used much.
Title: Re: C4
Post by: von.small on 11-11-2009, 15:11:07
please please please, can't we see the return of the C4/C5 plunger? Like in BF1942, realism aside gameplay demands it, less bazooka more tactical 'splosions.

My favourite past time of the dirty-spit game BF2 was waiting on the island between the bridges and blowing them up with C4 when US tried to cross.  I was hoping as well as motorbikes we'd at least get a few maps prepped with some destructible bridges, ... maybe that's coming in an OpMG update but pwease C4 plungers "back in the game".
Title: Re: C4
Post by: THeTA0123 on 11-11-2009, 17:11:32
Brit satchels and US comp B are pure shite for tank killing.  The comp B needs 5 on the engine deck to kill a panther (you carry 3).  Both take ages to leave your hands once you press the fire button.  Your better off throwing bandages at the panzers.
^


Use bazooka's

The only reason I choose the Satchel kit is on accident.  The only time you can use it if you find an incompetent tanker (like myself) who is sitting still and has zero infantry support.  If he starts driving away you are screwed.   Piat or SMG.  I would MUUUCH rather have mp40, tommy, sten, bren,bar,etc,etc than a rifle and a satchel.  I don't think the satchels get used much.
I use satchels and Comp B alot. Nothing is as fun as trowing on of these things over a wall
Title: Re: C4
Post by: General Tso on 11-11-2009, 18:11:05
Satchels are a great way to clear out buildings...
Title: Re: C4
Post by: Kev4000 on 12-11-2009, 02:11:44
I use satchels and Comp B alot. Nothing is as fun as trowing on of these things over a wall

Then failing to get it over the wall and RUUUUN!
Title: Re: C4
Post by: THeTA0123 on 12-11-2009, 23:11:50
I use satchels and Comp B alot. Nothing is as fun as trowing on of these things over a wall

Then failing to get it over the wall and RUUUUN!
and that! oooh the misery!

I once took a british satchel kit, tried to trow it over the wall, dint made it, i ran. My entire german squad remained........
Title: Re: C4
Post by: flyboy_fx on 14-11-2009, 17:11:55
The title says it all. How do you use it (especially against tanks)?

It seems that it cannot be thrown like the satchel charge, instead it just drops to the ground. So with the tall German tanks and Stugs in Normandy, getting it on top of the vulnerable engine deck is tricky to say the least. Usually, the C4 just falls to the ground, where its penetrating power is not enough to one-shot kittahs; Pz4 and StuGs might be killed by a close blast.

Am I doing it wrong, do you have some useful tips?


Under a tank.

Just dont crawl while its moving lol
Title: Re: C4
Post by: General_Henry on 17-11-2009, 15:11:26
The title says it all. How do you use it (especially against tanks)?

It seems that it cannot be thrown like the satchel charge, instead it just drops to the ground. So with the tall German tanks and Stugs in Normandy, getting it on top of the vulnerable engine deck is tricky to say the least. Usually, the C4 just falls to the ground, where its penetrating power is not enough to one-shot kittahs; Pz4 and StuGs might be killed by a close blast.

Am I doing it wrong, do you have some useful tips?

you can drop another one before the first one blow up, that should be enough to kill most German armour.

don't bother trying it on full health panthers, 2 still don't kill one
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Mud Buddha on 14-01-2010, 15:01:50
Nice to read that it can be done. Well, I knew it could be done, but that it really is a regular practice. In FH1 I could easily enough kill a tank with a satchel, but I haven't had much luck in FH2.
So thanx for the tips.

But the one thing I struggle with is knowing/timing when you can actually throw the charge. I haven't really figured out the "loading animation" of the satchel. After equipping the satchel, do you have to prime it first and then throw it (so two mouseclicks in total)  or just click when in position and wait for the animation the end?
Now I always end up frantically clicking away while attempting to stay lined up enough to throw it onto a, mostly, moving tank.

But I almost always play as an engineer because you have a lot of options. You can repair stuff, have decent shot of killing the enemy with the rifle and, if lucky, kill a tank or two. But up untill now, I hadn't really got to the tank-killing part. Shame you don't get any points for repairing anymore. But then you'll probably get guys just blowing up guns and fixing them afterwards for a higher score.


It's funny, now that FH2 becomes more rounded-off and complete, I keep getting these fond FH1 memories. The dreadfull "clunk"-noise of an unseen engineer putting a satchel charge on your tank being one of them. :D
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Natty on 14-01-2010, 16:01:53
most rewarding thing ever in fh1 was throw a satchel up on a tank and watch it drive away with that smoke-pillar on it, giggle a little and behold the boom.

sadly in fh2 you cant do it as easy, but no one wants the frisbee mines/satchels in fh2 anyway
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: phillip on 14-01-2010, 18:01:10
sadly in fh2 you cant do it as easy, but no one wants the frisbee mines/satchels in fh2 anyway

I do, it was challenging and fun.  Satchels aren't fun.  Only frustrating. You get shot at by infantry while waiting for the animation to complete, or the tank drives away, or whatever. 
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Natty on 14-01-2010, 19:01:12
me too, Im just saying if we put the fh1 frisbee style in to fh2, it would be way too OP against tanks. But sure, I wouldnt mind a faster throw either.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Eat Uranium on 14-01-2010, 19:01:16
I have a major problem with the anti tank explosives.

The sticky bomb, thermos flask and both ladungs are fine.  Its the satchel charge and comp B that are totally useless.

They both need setting up like the ladung 3kg, where the wait come when you get it out, not when you pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: luftwaffe.be on 14-01-2010, 19:01:33
sigh, in 2.25 has the ladung3kg/comp B damage criteria been changed ?

It seems to do less damage now, or does it now matter where you place it  ???
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Ahonen on 14-01-2010, 21:01:55
What I don't understand, is how can a satchel destroy a Stuart Recce when landing it inside a half-track barely makes it smoke.
Also, I find the composite pack fine at clearing buildings and AT emplacements, but honestly, that's all it's good at.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: THeTA0123 on 16-01-2010, 11:01:15
I trew a compo B yesterday on a Stug his engine deck     and it was Profit
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: M00SE on 20-01-2010, 14:01:35
I have a major problem with the anti tank explosives.

The sticky bomb, thermos flask and both ladungs are fine.  Its the satchel charge and comp B that are totally useless.

They both need setting up like the ladung 3kg, where the wait come when you get it out, not when you pull the trigger.

I`ve been having the same trouble with the Satchel, I always expect it to work the same way as the Ladung, but when I come to use it, I can never sus out the animation properly or the point when it is going to be released. I end up jumping up and down 3 or 4 times behind a tank trying to get it to go up in the air, then when it does release ( most times it misses and drops to the ground) I have no energy left to get away from the blast.

Ladungs on the other hand I can master perfectly and manage to place where intended 8 out of ten times.
It would be nice if they both worked in the same manner, after all they are roughly the same size and weight as a satchel would be.

The Comp B`s feel a bit tricky too, only used that a few times though so far.

Cheers



Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: THeTA0123 on 20-01-2010, 14:01:56
Are you guys sure you are trowing it right?

I trew a Compo B on a StuG on luttich, (on the rear engine deck) and it was destroyed
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Smiles on 20-01-2010, 15:01:19
Stug is kinda wide and flat so i think that the best tank to go for with comp b indeed:P As a noobie alrounder ive tried it more than once but only managed to teamkill (:P) someone who unfortunatly for me/him ran towards the panther i was bombing sabotaging.

I ended up with just throwing those darn things underneath the tanks but i dont believe that really damages it.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: THeTA0123 on 23-01-2010, 12:01:21
No problem with the stug vs Satchel.

It was badaboom for the stug
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Kelmola on 23-01-2010, 14:01:40
Would it be possible for a moderator to combine my earlier thread (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=3018.0) (a bit misleadingly titled) to this, as both are essentially the same?
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Slayer on 23-01-2010, 16:01:47
After reading this thread I experimented a little and tried Panthers on Totalize. The first one only started burning, but the second one was profit:

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5487/satchelkillspanther.th.jpg) (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/satchelkillspanther.jpg/)
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 23-01-2010, 18:01:31
Well I don't know about the Panthers. Last time I tried it was like ... I threw 5 Satchels on it and it still wasn't dead :9      U can imagine how i felt after running around the tank and back 2 ammo box 2 times?

And should I mention that somebody was aiming at it with Piat?

But none the less I love running around with Engineer kit. U can repair, shoot at long & close range, knife kill and BOMB THE SITH out if anything that walks or crawls on threads. - Nothing like bursting running through a flag zone and lay 1 down for the enemies 2 "pickup", know what I mean? :DD
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: 9.Pz-Div. Günther on 30-01-2010, 04:01:46
I noticed, many, many times when I dropped a Satchel charge on the back of a Sherman it would stay even if they drove away. However, the Satchel only damages it until like 70%. I would imagine it would kill any tank instantly, isn't this a bit odd?

Also, I'd solve this by throwing two satchels, by the preparation process of the Satchel just takes too damn long. I've tried putting two on the back in a row, but before I could throw the second one, the first one already went off, killing me in the explosion. I'd have to wait for the first one to go off, but obviously, the tanker would be alerted.

And usually they run off, and since the tank is still 100% functional at 30% health, Satcheling a tank is almost useless. Perhaps there are more vulnerable places to put the satchel? Personally I think one Satchel should just kill medium armour in one hit.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Slayer on 30-01-2010, 17:01:48
I've been satcheling a little more, lately. Panther and Stug both go boom with one satchel on their back.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 31-01-2010, 03:01:53
I've been satcheling a little more, lately. Panther and Stug both go boom with one satchel on their back.

Emmm yeah, like in Anctoville where they weakened the armor cause then they would be 2 strong and would pwn. SO u can kill Panther in 1 satchel try. BUt on the other maps I have 2 throw 3-4 satchels 2 bring it down or 3 Composition B packs (Luttich)
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Eat Uranium on 31-01-2010, 05:01:01
Emmm yeah, like in Anctoville where they weakened the armor cause then they would be 2 strong and would pwn.
All vehicles have the same armour in all maps they feature in.  The mod might make some historical sacrifices for gameplay, but that would be going way, way too far.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 31-01-2010, 06:01:59
Emmm yeah, like in Anctoville where they weakened the armor cause then they would be 2 strong and would pwn.
All vehicles have the same armour in all maps they feature in.  The mod might make some historical sacrifices for gameplay, but that would be going way, way too far.

Well I always throw satchels Ladungs and Comp Bs on the back armor top, where the engine is and I tried it on Anctoville - 1 satchel, I try it on other maps - 3-4 satchels
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: 9.Pz-Div. Günther on 31-01-2010, 20:01:57
Yeah! I was surprised when he made that remark. I've thrown dozens of Geballte Ladung on the top of the engine of many Shermans but one satchel only brings it down to 30%. I'd like to see the satchels be stronger.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Slayer on 31-01-2010, 20:01:10
Well I always throw satchels Ladungs and Comp Bs on the back armor top, where the engine is and I tried it on Anctoville - 1 satchel, I try it on other maps - 3-4 satchels

Maybe the tank in Anctoville had been damaged before. Which might be the case with my Panther too, btw (and that was on Totalize - I posted a screenie earlier).
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Sgt.Radman on 01-02-2010, 01:02:29
Well I always throw satchels Ladungs and Comp Bs on the back armor top, where the engine is and I tried it on Anctoville - 1 satchel, I try it on other maps - 3-4 satchels

Maybe the tank in Anctoville had been damaged before. Which might be the case with my Panther too, btw (and that was on Totalize - I posted a screenie earlier).

Nope, the tank was coming from the base 2 Mairie, and I was d only one with an AT weapon, was playing 4vs4, and the others were elsewhere
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: psykfallet on 13-02-2010, 15:02:33
i noticed you can't stand righ next to the tank, the satchel will bounce off, but if you stand a few feet away you will throw it and it can land on top of the tank
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: THeTA0123 on 13-02-2010, 16:02:11
Yeah! I was surprised when he made that remark. I've thrown dozens of Geballte Ladung on the top of the engine of many Shermans but one satchel only brings it down to 30%. I'd like to see the satchels be stronger.
The sherman has like 5% health left when you trow a gebalte

The gebalte handels more easier then the satchel/compo B, if it is made more powerfull, it should be compensated by something
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: flamedexter on 26-04-2010, 06:04:47
I have a question. How come there is no wired satchels Charge? im pretty sure the British special forces in ww2 have satchels charges that is connected by a long wire while the player hides and wait. Would be good for an Ambush.
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: DLFReporter on 26-04-2010, 08:04:38
I have a question. How come there is no wired satchels Charge? im pretty sure the British special forces in ww2 have satchels charges that is connected by a long wire while the player hides and wait. Would be good for an Ambush.

It just hasn't been implemented yet. :)
Title: Re: Satchel charge
Post by: Raziel on 26-04-2010, 09:04:29
Quote
... yet. :)

That yet gives us High Hopes for the future!  :D