Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => Tunis => Topic started by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 12:03:12
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"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
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Neez moar Lafette.
Otherwise, the map is perfect, and imo, one of the best maps currently ingame :D
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One of the most fun maps in game.
Things that could be improved:
Heavy limiting on MG34, 1/2 pick up MG42's and MG34 Lafette's! So more balance with limiting the MG34 spamfest.
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Um, fuchs, there's only one pick up :P
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Notice the 's, I want more ;D
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Isn't there a static lafette on top of the last flag at the building (the German HQ I think) And nice to see Von Mudra and all his crazy antics here now ;D
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Ohh, misread you, Fuchs :D
Yes, moar plez.
And woot woot, my antics are off the hook DAWG.
Ok, I'll stop now>__>
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The map is unbalanced right now, I would consider givin the brits the first flag at the start of the round (the one neutral right now). Also limit the MG34s and please god no MG42s on that map.
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Some parts of this map have been redesigned already to balance it better. We've yet to test it internally though.
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Good to hear.
A thing that bothers me much with this map and some others are fences that are placed to be very hard to jump across while in reality they wouldn't be. For example, if the fence was only a few centimeters lower it would cause no trouble, but because it's not usually a whole bunch of people struggles trying to jump over it while losing fatigue like hell. It pisses me off, frankly :)
There is one fence like this south-east on this map if I remember well, that makes such problems all the time. I hope it is considered to be fixed, if possible at the moment?
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Every single MG on this map works in favour of the germans as a serious chance to stop allied progress. Even the british ones are suggestive to hesitate and to camp. But obviously the germans don't need to be favoured. The S-mines are removed from the scout class but brens are given. That is not very consistent, I think.
Shouldn't the brits get some special equipment for their last assault on the african continent? I'm not quiete sure about the historical facts though.
As a player the situation is desperate. As german you're supposed to win with ease, everything else would be a shame. And the brits got no hope and usually fall back after they capped the central square or even before, only trying to kill the germans by setting up a defense.
There are only a few small passages leading to even smaller bottlenecks, all in a bent tube. No wonder somebody called it Unreal Tunisment. No hard feelings please, but that describes the map best. If you want it that way, then it's all fine, isn't it? However, I don't see big chances to make major changes with minor fixes.
What came to my mind was to open the area between british and german HQ, adding statics and stuff, abandoning the idea of a push map. But this is nothing I pondered long about. But just to show how big the changes would have to be.
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No wonder somebody called it Unreal Tunisment.
8)
my meme catches on...
anyway, the main problem seems to be the first flag. Once the british cap harbor, the gameplay usually get much more fluid and I have often seen the german getting pushed back to the last flag. I'd say give that flag to the british in the beginning and the map will be much better.
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I completely agree with Dukat.
Imo, there shouldn't be concentrated fronts on such a tight map. There should at least be many alternative ways to move from point A to B (which could be achieved by opening the locked area of the map, even if that would require more serious work) instead of only one or two which are always ambushed and impossible to breach.
You spawn and die constantly. I mean it does depend on one's skill to survive and fight, but not every day is a good day. Sometimes I am back from work tired and my reflexes get slower, or I just don't have luck - and i constantly keep dying at the spawn point or a few meters away. I usually quit the game because its impossible to play it flawlessly unless you're in a perfect mood. This is mostly a reason I stopped playing FH in past few months, and Tunis especially emphases this problem.
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It would have to be tested, but what about one commando kit with the grappling hook that spawns at the british main? that or have squad leaders have them, but that might be 'too' much.
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First brits just need to rush the harbor and capture it, rest shouldnt be so problematic. Brits need to be fast at the start.
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Brits can win the map easily, its all about teamwork. Remember, the lafette can only cover one area, leaving the many other passages in the map open.
The map, imo, is still balanced fine.
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I played it an hour or so ago on hslan, and I have not noticed any advantage on the German side(on which was). The British just kept on capping the flags. So from my point of view, the Germans are at a loss, but it could just as well have to do with player skills.
I think it is good as it is, although I can't really judge fully until I have played it from British point of view.
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It can really go either way, but most people will complain if their side loses :P
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The map has undergone a major overhaul in 2.2.
We have yet to playtest the new version, but if it plays as well as it looks........well, be prepared for one intense fight on both sides! ;)
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i found tunish for single player, but i don't understand how to instal this one. This map have 3 folder and each folder have same contain. please help me ::)
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Brits can win the map easily, its all about teamwork. Remember, the lafette can only cover one area, leaving the many other passages in the map open.
The map, imo, is still balanced fine.
Jerries don't really need any teamwork and still they can win, but brits need superb teamwork to win. I dont think its balanced ::). I've been playing quite a lot, on both sides, and I've seen once brits winning :-\
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It's right, on hslan axis wins way more often.
Yet your argument is a bit spongy, the attacking faction almost always needs more teamwork.
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I was having a game on this map yesterday evening and I think it would be more fun for the Brits if they either get more tickets or just make that 1st flag uncapable for the Germans.
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Brits can win the map easily, its all about teamwork. Remember, the lafette can only cover one area, leaving the many other passages in the map open.
The map, imo, is still balanced fine.
Old quote, but come on...how many people actually work as a team on pub servers? It's lone-wolf central, no matter how desperately you try to rally people.
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Tunis got heavy changes for 2.2, so you can relax as any discussion about the actual setup has not value
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its hard to break out. once the first flag is neutralized, it becomes a stalemate, a complete bloodbath for the brits.
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What might help, is a kit with no69 grenades. They are very good assault grenades, and they would REALLY help the british
Also the tickets need to be reseen, either the Germans have to much tickets, or the British have a to high bleed on theirs
And maybe some limiting on the MG34's, god i hate them camping at the flags
But for the rest, this map is good, Its an awesome Rambo Bren gunning assault map ;D
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Like Lobo said, this map will get heavy adjustments and tweaks in 2.2 so your feedback right now might not be "up-to-date" with the upcoming version. But feel free to leave feedback in general, they are all read.
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I think that the single best thing that would help this map would be to remove smoke grenades from the list of things that get limited to 1 instance on the smaller maps. It is very hard to advance under smoke cover when you only get 1 smoke each.
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I think that the single best thing that would help this map would be to remove smoke grenades from the list of things that get limited to 1 instance on the smaller maps. It is very hard to advance under smoke cover when you only get 1 smoke each.
I second that!
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Like Lobo said, this map will get heavy adjustments and tweaks in 2.2 so your feedback right now might not be "up-to-date" with the upcoming version. But feel free to leave feedback in general, they are all read.
Thats ok, it might always be usefull later.
I kinda compare this when i make a suggestion=It doesnt NEED to be imputted for 2.2, it can always be done in later versions(When one of the devs feel like doing the suggestion :p)
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No no I didnt mean YOU in particular. I meant you as people in general. :)
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They also ment it like that
Normandy first, then new suggestions
Do we guys?
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The new map is nice and offers a lot of improved gameplay. But I would say, that the Brits got to many tickets. But maybe I have to play it more often.
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The new map is nice and offers a lot of improved gameplay. But I would say, that the Brits got to many tickets. But maybe I have to play it more often.
Or you can remove the bleed for the Germans. The Germans are easily over runned and pushed back to the last flag. This makes for the most interesting fight of the map, namely the German Headquarters.
Played Tunis twice since 2.2, as Axis and Allied, both saw the Axis beaten with a massive tickets left for the allied team.
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Ok, after playing it more often I came to the decision, that the new ways are great and add a lot of tactics, but the british tickets are for too much. I would consider 150 less.
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Played this once now and it was a run-over for the allies. I think axis now has to learn how to defend on this map, where it was allies who had to learn how to attack on Tunis 2.15, so let's give it some time. If this will not change, maybe a ticket change will do the job.
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what about adding some italian kits, just for variety?
right now 90% of the axis team uses the same kit. boring :P
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I agree, that would make it more fun.
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I totally agree whith rattovolante.
I worked whith this suggestion nearly hour. Making picture itself did not take much time, but "figuring out perfect balance" is something what takes some time. My suggestion for kits came up very radical. Like pioneers/engineer carry 2 s-mines instead of normal mines. No rifle only kits. Every kit have its own special role. 3 spagetti kits for Gerries. Comments please!
(http://)
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Could not make fit current Tunis kits image to my previous message, so here it is.
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Well, played the SP and coop version. Even as Germans, the most l33t players will be defeated by sheer number of overwhelming British bots. They came in numbers and shot the Bren MG while standing, making you suppressed before dying and took the post. Three experienced players won't make it for the Germans in coop, as the German bots don't normally defend positions or easily overwhelmed by the British automatic weapons.
As the British, it is very easy to overwhelm the Germans. Just toss a grenade to their defending position, cap the flag before the majority of them spawned.
I guess this is because of German poor equipment.
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if you rework the kits, please also consider rebalancing them.
playing as axis rifle assault vs. tommygun + nade isn't easy and degenerates into "scavenge a SMG ASAP", which IMO can spoil gameplay due to the way kit limiting system works.
my suggestions:
0. scout (limited) - as is
1. smg (limited) - remove grenade, smg pwns enough as is
2. rifle assault - change bayonet for knife (faster deploy animation = slightly more chances in close combat). Since this is and will be the weakest kit ("dump kit") I suggest to give it something fancy/different from the others. What about free french soldier (in british uniform) with Enfield 1917 for allies, for example? I guess carcano 38 is the only possibility to go "unusual" for axis, but would be quite unhistorical (but then, I think the whole map is what-if, right?).
3allied machinegunner (limited) - as is
3axis replace rifle assault with machinegunner (limited) - Italian Breda 30 LMG (MG34 would be unbalanced)
4. rifleman w/ nade (limited) - no change
5. replace anti tank/pioneer with impact nade rifle assault (limited) - bayonet, rifle (SMLE/carcano 91), impact offensive grenade (no. 69 / OTO 35).
6. NCO - as is
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I have to admit that adding extra smg to axis team will turn balance against allies. Nobody didnt like my idea for engineer/pioneer kit? I made new image based on rattovolantes opinnions and I have to say it does not look bad at all. Common rifleman kit looks not so lame when smg soldier have no nades eihter.
(http://)
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Looks good, I like it. Also replacing mines by S-mines seems like a good idea.
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A Breda 30 and a Carcano carbine = epic
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Sure, MG for axis will pwn allies easily, as MGs are perfect defending tool.
But i would like to tune Allies kits a bit, like removing the anti tank weapon, real life players don't use it too often except for its massive grenades, but bots use it a lot. Also if possible, the German should have something like Breda, which is a pretty a nerfed MG. Shouldn't cause much problem for the attacking allies.
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Imo Tunis should be like Sidi Rezegh, with combined Kits on the Axis Side.
But i agree, a Breda will do fine for the Germans..
Now every time i play this, allies wins easily.
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But tunis before this was Axis rape fest everytime :(
we cant have it all!
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Map has changed since 2.3, New flag and some italian spawn classes .Feel free to comment or make suggestions. :)
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Awesome! What italian kits? Hopefully one with carcano and Breda 30 (OR breda 37!)
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A Breda 30 kit, a Carcano 91 kit and a Carcano 38 kit with OTO grenades.
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A Breda 30 kit, a Carcano 91 kit and a Carcano 38 kit with OTO grenades.
MAMA mia thatsa DA GOODA NEWSE!
(http://img.youtube.com/vi/Gvalj7YKU8g/0.jpg)
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Map has changed since 2.3, New flag and some italian spawn classes .Feel free to comment or make suggestions. :)
Don't change a thing. the addition of the artillery flag has dramatically shifted the play towards the middle of the map which prevents the old issue of the German main being camped.
i always liked Tunis but i like it even more now.
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I tought there are no destructible objects on FH (besides those boards on fences and maybe something else I don't remember). But I saw wooden cart go into pieces by grenade explosion infront of me :o. That revealed my position and someone shot me. Moar stuff like this.
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I like the new flag "Cannon position", however some spawn should be fixed/removed/changed - they are in the same building for "Cannon position" and for "Al-Grabah market" flags... When these flags are in different hands, it usually ends as a spawnrape...
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Allies tend to win by small margin mostly. Even if second last flag is not capped (that causes axis to bleed). Thinking of result it would be more balanced if axis start to bleed after last flag is capped (hq). Axis are on defence so it makes more sense that they bleed only after the whole city is lost imo. Then bleed could be rapid what prevents unnecessary wait for find last camping noobs.
The map has gone step by step to better direction during the time. Unique cod2 stylish map what deserve place on any server map rotation. Refreshing brain dead meat grinder after some "serious" big scale maps.
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Can we please have a italian M37 for gerries?
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This map seems to be impossible to win for the Germans. Why do the brits have 200+ tickets to start with ?
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All maps that can only end with a total victory for one team have more tickets for the attacking team. As defenders will usually have it easier than the attackers.
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Yeah, but the ticket ratio is too big... Brits can always win without making Germans bleed...
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Forgotten Hope 2 have been redesigned to handle these issues differently, thanks to clever python updates we can handle the ticket balance differently.
actually, by fixing a broken BF2 feature 8)
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Can we please have a italian M37 for gerries?
Is it the italian MG Tripod you are talking about? As an axcahnge for the MG34 Lafette?
If this is the case. Hell no. Not an other italien machine gun that is utter bullshit just as the italien LMG currently ingame. The Mg34 Lafette is so awesome on this map never replace it with anything.
The M37 would probably have a lower tripod than the Mg34 Lafette which would make many great Lafette spots totally useless.
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In regards of Tunis, a M37 can be added to it without removing lafettes. Its not a problem since its a map that doesnt hog resources that much.
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Played the map a few times with new patch, and I honestly think its pretty balanced now. A decent British team using SMOKE a lot can move up effectively. The only problem is the last flag, I have never seen it capped, ever. Design a way for British to cap the last flag easier, and the map will be just about as balanced as it can get.
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Just so everyone knows, on the 16 version of Tunis there is some kind of bug that causes British soldiers to spawn in the German main, giving you great shots at enemy infantry moving towards the flag but only 9 seconds to play with, as you are ten miles out of bounds :D.
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This is rather off topic when considering that the previous discussion on this thread was centred around balance, but are the British troops on this map (post 2.45) supposed to be wearing Normandy uniforms with Africa helmets? Or am I suffering from a glitch?
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This is rather off topic when considering that the previous discussion on this thread was centred around balance, but are the British troops on this map (post 2.45) supposed to be wearing Normandy uniforms with Africa helmets? Or am I suffering from a glitch?
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=17875.0
Supposed to be like that.
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This is rather off topic when considering that the previous discussion on this thread was centred around balance, but are the British troops on this map (post 2.45) supposed to be wearing Normandy uniforms with Africa helmets? Or am I suffering from a glitch?
http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=17875.0
Supposed to be like that.
Huh, odd. Thanks for that info, though.
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Needs more points where the Brits could attack in the beginning. It's a grenadefeast! British troops get slaughtered half of their tickets from the very start.
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Might aswell add some vehicles for the british.
Vickers light tank or brencarrier for example.
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(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8623/screen076.png)
How about making the Axis tag DE/ITA, and also putting some Italian voices to add realism? Its stupid when an Italian soldier speaks German in a fluent German accent :P
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not sure if possible engine-wise, even if it is, you'll get the typical "other stuff has priority over this" response anyway, so...
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Mortar in the brit main, please?
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I dont think any arty or vehicles are a good idea. For vehicles they would just get stuck everywhere.
And arty the mortar on Brest has just been removed to stop this massiv mortar (spanw)raping at least for the Germans.
And now add a mortar to tunis this would be an incredicly worse kind of spam. No please.
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I dont think any arty or vehicles are a good idea. For vehicles they would just get stuck everywhere.
And arty the mortar on Brest has just been removed to stop this massiv mortar (spanw)raping at least for the Germans.
And now add a mortar to tunis this would be an incredicly worse kind of spam. No please.
But we need something to break the stalemate of this map with +64 people. What do you suggest?
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Pick up MG kits for the Italiens or why not for both sides, something like. Or similar this changes in kit layout. Its nice to have maps without annoying arty it belogs to Tunis and its gameplay.
I dont think an map should be altered on the basis of 64+ players. the maps arent made for 64+ players and I d say its still more often less or not much more than 64 players online.
The map stays a 64 map not a 64+ map, its rather a problem of server managment to exculde certain maps from the maplist.
For the 64 player version I think 3 passages should be enough to brake the main line.
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Mortar in the brit main, please?
LefH for the germans pls ;D
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Mortar in the brit main, please?
LefH for the germans pls ;D
Oh dog what diddeh if that happens!
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We all know the map to be a grenade festival. This is even worst with 64+ server. :-\
This annoyance could be decreased drastically by simply removing ammo boxes on the map, an particularly the one found in building facing (west) old mosque flag zone. When Allies take the 3 first flags, Axis have unlimited grenades at hands ready to be thrown on city gate shock points. This mix of shock points and unlimited grenades turn every round into a mess, imho.
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2.46 changelog for Tunis 64
- The Allied HQ: less crowdy spawning.
- Removed the ammo box in D4 (a building between Prophet's Gate and Old Mosque) (as requested by [QPS]_Sex_Bomb, see the post right above (http://fhpubforum.warumdarum.de/index.php?topic=78.msg292240#msg292240)).
- Fixed intermixed spawning in H3. In 2.45, the Allies and the Axis were spawned in the same place by different flags.
- The Axis HQ: removed 2 spawn points 10-20 meters away from the infamous right flank building which we all love to camp in.
- The Axis HQ: added a sandbag wall in front of the lafette.
- Updated minimap, no more walking on the water at the coast. This also fixed some outdated areas on the minimap.
- Cosmetic (visual) fixes.
Minimap for reference:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2555cno.jpg)
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2.5 changelog for Tunis (all layers)
- Closed a route from Al-Grabab Market to Prophet's Gate over fortress walls, the one that allowed Axis players to camp on the gates overlooking Prophet's Gate flag.
- Various visual fixes, from better looking barrels all over the map to fixed shiny vases.
Minimap for reference:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2555cno.jpg)
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This general idea has struck me more than once while playing Tunis. I don't know how historically accurate or balanced it would be, but at least the map would stop being a server killer, I think. The idea would be to give the Allied team a chance to get deep into the city right at the beginning of the match.
If possible, maybe have the game randomly pick which Allied starting spawn could be spawned at. So Axis would never know where the attack is coming from, at first. Obviously, the map would have to be overhauled.
(http://i.imgur.com/EAtEi0p.png)