Forgotten Hope Public Forum
Forgotten Hope 2 => Africa maps => Feedback => Gazala => Topic started by: Toddel on 29-03-2009, 11:03:26
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"If you have a suggestions or want to give us some Feedback about this Map you can Post it here!"
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Is there anyway to add Bir Hackeim back into the 64 player version? Why was is removed in the first place?
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Bir Hakeim was removed because it was too isolated from rest of the map. While 105th Box and Knightsbridge are fairly close to one another, and the attack routes from Sidi Muftah all the way to the other flags located on north side of the map, Bir Hakeim stands all by itself in the middle of nowhere. Devs noticed during public play that the place is not used at all and whoever attacked or defended it found themselfs either unopposed in their actions or the people would plain leave the position because there was never any action going on.
I doubt it will be introduced back into 64p version, but I hope we will see it as its own map sometime, either from devs or from very qualified public mappers.
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Bir Hakeim was a great flag to attack and defend. 8)
But, it could get very lonley there just waiting and listening to the wind howling! :(
The map does play better without it, lots more action with the reduced flag numbers. :)
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Some french guys are making a Bir hacheim map atm
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Aw, I thought Bir Hakkeim could offer some really nice fights from time to time
Anyhow, the area around where the flag was is a good spot to take a breather while being pilot and to gain some altitude
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I was always fighting at Bir Hacheim. I still pity it, don't like Gazala that much anymore. Wasn't my favourite at the beginning.
Still, playing with pick up AT kit on 150th box is awesome.
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I hate big open tank maps. That being said, Gazala is the most awesome big open tank map and I love to play it.
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Gazala has always been, and will most likely stay as one of my favorite maps in FH2 so far. I am a big buff for the tanks, and this map is ideal for it. Not only is it absolutely beautiful and doesnt leave infantry and flyboys into cold and dark, its tank combat is phenomenal! As an Axis player ((http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/7203/nazimarssi.gif)) I always love to grab the good Panzer 3 or the more bizarre and puny Carro Armato, because nothing feels as good as destroying grants and those pesky Stuarts with your Italian deathmachine. This map truely captures the desert warfare at its best. Definately my pick for a Top FH2 maps list. 8)
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I agree, it is an excellent tank maps, one of the finest out there. Reason then is, is that I don't like tanking :P
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I have to agree with everything Flippy said. This map just works. I would rate this as the best map in the mod for tank combat, and up near the top for dogfigting. Its allways fun to snipe AT guns at the view distance with my trusty Carro, or sneak round in a crusader.
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I agree, Gazala is among the best tank maps. And the removal of Bir Hacheim did make the fights more intensive since you no longer have a "sideshow" in the south.
One thing I've noticed is that once the Axis take the 150th Box, the Allies often sneak an arty spotter into the hills south of it. Result: constant shelling from 25 pdrs and mortars, especially on top of the Bofors and the 2pdr. (Of course, this is just a case of bad tactics and ignorance of the text messages Tommy spotter s of 150th, take him out please.)
But this is more than balanced by the epic tank ambushes that take place on the very same hills (incidentally reducing the survivability of spotters there). Axis tanks position themselves to flank Allied units coming to support/recap 150th along the valley, then Allied units try to outflank them by coming straight over the hills instead, then Axis units start watching the eastern approaches, forcing the Allied to circle further south... and all the time, a tank could appear anywhere from behind the hills, and you start seeing every rock as the 37mm turret of a Grant. ;D
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I miss Bir Hackem...
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I miss Bir Hackem...
Play the 16 player version. I think it's the first map on WOLF's rotation.
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AI in this map
Although unnoficial, I'm sure the current code will be the basis for any official SP support so... probably the best tank map has all tanks moving in @ least in threes and fours. Lacks air cover though, and infantry play a small role, even within the defenses.... Its real issues are bot use of vehicles, not pathmapping or tactics
Basically:
Hurricane AT should do its work in tank busting and use mgs on infantry where possible
Allies should be airborne @ all times, same goes for axis, but a bit less of a concern since they do use their planes
Bots don't like Tiger... wierd - I think Tiger's values are reduced so it should'nt be such an inbalance to have it running amok
bots need to spawn more @ the defenses... the open base is an easy cap, the boxes however need to be kill zones... bots spawning and defending with AA, AT and small arms
Bots need to use AT against tanks more
Longer range for mg tank fire and PZ cannon fire... Its an open map, it needs this (General tank use improved)
Bots need to realise that once they get to a destination and can't go further, as is get their tanks to the boxes and can't cross the minefields, there should be a 50-50 chance that they leave their tanks and move in OR more infantry with trucks and cars moving in along the tanks...
Small pathmapping issue, German bots need to move to the eastern box over the road, NOT through the craggy hills, getting stuck...
General AI changes
Stuka should, if possible fly high, nose down and recover from the dive once its dropped its bombs... goes without saying, it needs to dive OVER its target and not once it sees its tagets as currently is. I think the Stuka bots could teach players a thing or two about dive bombing if they got it right :-)
PZII should fire from greater range to compensate for its weak gun
Tank hull mgs and non-HE tanks should fire their co-axel mgs @ longer range
Better AT use
As always
Bots don't use 25Pdr, LeFH or mortars
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Now currently there are too many crusaders in Gazala, the panzers just get massacred...
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I doubt Bots can use Artillery, i dont even think they are coded for that. Li,e you spot something and they fire on your spot.
Maybe not like Humans..
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The axis seriously need either more or better tanks. The crusaders just shoot the whole german army to pieces with ease .. Last time i had a score like 200/5, not camping,m but driving around a crusader in the desert and engaging P3/P4's in frontal close combat and always killing them like flies ..
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The axis seriously need either more or better tanks. The crusaders just shoot the whole german army to pieces with ease .. Last time i had a score like 200/5, not camping,m but driving around a crusader in the desert and engaging P3/P4's in frontal close combat and always killing them like flies ..
I got same with stuart ::). It can take more pounding from those 50mm guns and it bounces off most italian tanks shots. It still kills with 3 shots to side armor of panzer III.
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The axis seriously need either more or better tanks. The crusaders just shoot the whole german army to pieces with ease .. Last time i had a score like 200/5, not camping,m but driving around a crusader in the desert and engaging P3/P4's in frontal close combat and always killing them like flies ..
seriously, even idiots could now win a panzer III with a crusader I now(with some difficulties), it's very imbalanced.
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One question though, does the addition of Tiger ausf. H is realistic or just for balancing issue?
Because that thing really equalize tank battles with Crusader I semi-domination.
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Tiger? There is no Tiger on that map and it wouldn't make any sense.
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Sorry, that might be just leftovers from FH2.15 SP mini modding. The axis got 1 Tiger H there which doesn't seems odd to me at first place.
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I suggets have a few of the better tanks spawn more forward, and possibly make the back flags uncap until the front flags are taken (150box and the northern). Usually the most eastern flag is taken first.
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Haven't played Gazala for a while, I usually have a break from play if it's on, after 2 yrs + of playing it...
Anyway I decided to stick it out tonight....Axis about 5 minutes in whilst driving a P2 I get a CTD
Rejoin, on Allied side now, Driving a crusader..CTD
Now I remember another reason I dislike it, constant CTD's.. anyone else also experiance chronic crashes on Gazala? :-\
For some reason this map dislikes running for me...
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there's an history error in this map. there weren't l40 tank destroyer in nord africa (they operated only in Russia). But there were some 75/18 tank destroyer.
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A second arty gun would be totally epic for the Germans.
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Why the southern flag was removed?
(http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/screenshotsfh2/Gazala/minimap_small.jpg)
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Issues IIRC.
But french hope is making a complete map of Bir hakeim. Including the 75mm at guns wich ripped trough italian and german armor
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I dont see the point of having a Semovente in this map.
Sadly, such awesome vehicle is too awesome for this map, its a pity it doesnt have HE rounds but its still awesome!
Fellas, kill the Semovente and replace it with a Panzerjager I, Semo cant kill shit, Trucks and Jeeps but thats all!, before it can fire it gets killed, dunno whats wrong with the main gun but it turns so sloooooow it doesnt make any point moving it. Turn the whole damn thing instead.
PzJgrI will be badass, that thing would be eable to kill almost any Allied tank in the Map, plus its sexy and open top.
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Another german tank is just what we need..
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Of course, and you probably mean, another Tank Destroyer but yes.
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Oh ok
a temporary solution could be to give Effecto pronto shells to the semovento. these penetrated 60mm, wich is the same as the czech pak 4.7cm at the distance of 1000 meters
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Now that I've been playing this more on the British side, I notice that Sidi Muftah is out of range of the 25pdr in the British main. Is this intentional or just a by-product of the piece's in-game range?
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it is not intentional. Nor is it unintentional. It just is as it is, and I have never seen anyone comment on it before either.
I dont know if we need more spamming explosions around the flags on this map though.... tanks HE do that job pretty nicely
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2.46 changelog for Gazala 64
- The Mc.202 was replaced with the previously unused BF109E7 Trop.
- The Stukas got 50 kg anti-infantry bombs.
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2.5 changelog for Gazala 64
- New Italian Semovente 75/18 self-propelled gun replaced two Carro Armato M13/40 at 150th Box and Sidi Muftah.
- Various minor gameplay and visual fixes and improvements, from the combat area appearing larger on the minimap than it really is, to adjusted AT guns' positions to lower their profile a bit, to fixed "holes" in the terrain especially noticeable at the Axis main base (Trigh Capuzzo).
Minimap for reference:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ptqgy0.jpg)
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There is a very small fence of barbed wire guarding nothing in particular in the depression located around C3 on the map. Is that meant to be there?