Author Topic: Meuse River 64  (Read 6378 times)

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #15 on: 04-04-2012, 18:04:16 »
First if you get shot by a Panzerfaust guy dont do the same thing again, take an other rout.
There are two options:
First team up with a squad that covers you flanks (since your flank are forests). The infantry can shot the Germans with there scary Panzerfausts and you even have a sqaud which helpts you to capture the flag you are attacking, instead of just standing 200 meters away from the flag a spawnrape! (Thats what 90% of 75mm Sherman drivers do, pretty pathetic)

The other option is to drive to a flag that is capped by your own team so you can fulfill the role that your (75mm) Sherman is actually disigned for - Support your infantry, instead of driving alone near teh forest.

Still of course it can happen that some sneaky, scary Panzerfaust Germans kills you out of nothing. But what did you expect on a map which is mostly coverd by forests and over 9000 halftracks.

Another point yes there are rounds where Shermans cant cross the ABC line, just as on Cobra, Goodwood, Eppeldorf etc. it happen. Sure not funny but its mainly because of imbalanced teams.

Instead of reducing the number of tanks on Meuse in generel, just drop some of the German tanks maybe Panther and the Jagdpanzer IV at the Farm and the Pnazer IV at Sawmill.
« Last Edit: 04-04-2012, 18:04:27 by hyperanthropos »

Offline Mobilis_in_Mobili

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #16 on: 19-05-2012, 03:05:08 »
Yep, this map is like Luttich; low on tactical options (ring around the rosey is correct).

It's more of a "who can hide in the bushes with a faust/zook" or "Axis armor takes 2-5 hits to kill,"  or swarm the flag until your squad runs off and you get swarmed." 

The allied Tank Killer on this map is terrible - can't one shot the german medium/heavy panzers with any regularity - and the special armor piercing round is lacking.  I thought this was supposed to be an improvement on the M10?
Breakfast of Champions: Tigers, Panthers, Pumas, Stugs, & Panzerfausts-on-Legs.

Offline ajappat

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #17 on: 19-05-2012, 07:05:25 »
The allied Tank Killer on this map is terrible - can't one shot the german medium/heavy panzers with any regularity - and the special armor piercing round is lacking.  I thought this was supposed to be an improvement on the M10?

It kills kingtiger with one shot from front, like any other german tank. Maybe you are trying to shoot sides from bad angle and doing just minimal damage.

Offline Mobilis_in_Mobili

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #18 on: 19-05-2012, 13:05:50 »
Maybe on a good day it kills the King Tiger from the front - in a test lab when no one is firing back at you - at the right angle - at the right inclination, etc.   Yes, in certain cases it can happen?

Back to my old point - axis Panther, Tiger, and  variants don't require as much precise skill to take out any of the allied tanks on this Meuse map.

The allied Tank Killer on Meuse is about as fragile as the aluminum American tank in Battlefield Vietnam; and you're telling us that its fair because - if you get the angle perfect - the Tiger will go down?  So while I'm trying to aim my best from a far distance; all the Tiger/88 shell has to do is shoot and point.

Allied Armor = aim very carefully - so that you hit the special pixels and get the correct special angles; otherwise advance, hide, don't get hit by faust in the bushes, and then hit the panzer from the side at a perfect angle.  The Allied Tank Killer gets wasted all the time - when Tigers advance; less to do with angle and more to do with the King Tiger embolstering; I've tested it with guys several times: KT versus allied tank killer (where we both switched sides with no other distractions or heat of battle issues occurred).

Axis Armor = Point your frontal armor at allied armor, pray they don't hit the special pixel, and fire away killing with each shot (approximately 20% randomness/deflect failures or distance whimpering of shell velocity).  Guys in panthers, tigers, stugs, etc. just sit on the battlefield and don't move but kill tons of folks (even though they have been hit over 5 times).

Seriously - have you seen any allied tank aces (in Normandy) that just go up on a hill - take 8 hits and survive - and kill all advancing medium/heavy panzers?  It would be about the same small percentage as those who can hit the special pixel (on the front of Tigers) every time; doesn't happen much.
Breakfast of Champions: Tigers, Panthers, Pumas, Stugs, & Panzerfausts-on-Legs.

Offline Ts4EVER

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #19 on: 19-05-2012, 14:05:35 »
But that's exactly the point of German tanks, people like them because they are better than allied equivalents. It's why people start clans with German names or play Germans exclusively. They have the good stuff.

Offline TASSER

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #20 on: 19-05-2012, 15:05:37 »
With the M36 (American Tank Killer), if you use the special AT ammo type (HVAP I think) it is pretty consistently a one shot kill to the KT frontal armor. You may have just been using the standard AP rounds?  ???

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Offline Mobilis_in_Mobili

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #21 on: 19-05-2012, 17:05:19 »
Standard AP with larger mm; yes - don't see real help with standard against heavy panzers
Breakfast of Champions: Tigers, Panthers, Pumas, Stugs, & Panzerfausts-on-Legs.

Offline Ubba

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #22 on: 21-05-2012, 21:05:01 »
The map is quite small and have lots of armour and artillery and I think it can be alittle too much if you're playing as infantry.
What I think is needed is more cover for infantry inside the town both especially the west side of the town where you just get killed every second or so with the constant artillery bombing and tank shells flying around.
And as I started with is the map small so I think it fits better with more focus on the infantry.

What i'm feeling right now is that there need to be some way to keep tanks outside of the central town and have tank battles at sawmill and farm(?) by having some clever debris on the roads leading to it, or maybe just remove that annoying artillery(rant!).

Offline kingtiger1891

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #23 on: 28-05-2012, 16:05:09 »
Normally I can bust all the German tanks on this map with the Willy ;D, except the KT.

Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #24 on: 22-07-2012, 12:07:54 »
I understand the change about the flag layout, its a good idea and it certainly makes a better fight for the infantry. About yes you are right this map really lacks something nowa days without all the tanks.
It was to hard for the allies to stop the german tanks, but I think a littel reduction of German armor would have solved the problem. This could have been to drop the Panther from the german base and also remove the tanks spawnig at captured command post, such as the jagspanzer IV at the farm which was never needed. The Allies on the other hand could use there extra tanks at the command posts very well.
By the way did the Allies also lose their jumbo :( ?

Offline |7th|Nighthawk

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #25 on: 17-08-2012, 22:08:13 »
The new map layout feels completely different now, I miss the King Tiger and Jagdpanther; the arty got annoying sometimes but at least it gave you the ability to break through some heavy resistance or getting rid of those stonwall-camping guys at the river.
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Offline hyperanthropos

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #26 on: 31-08-2012, 22:08:35 »
If I recall correctly the major changes on this map are the removal of the ABC line in favor of an increased death zone, so you cant get as close to the enemys main as before. Also there is new accessible space ontop of teh cliffs west of the western road. Also there is another Flagadded to the city.
Further more thre are less tanks in general. I think the Jagspanther is still there, even the KT is still there but ONLY when the Germans Lost all Flags.
The Allies have less Shermans fore sure.  I think no more Jumbo, but two M36 instead.

Okay there changes are certainly far from being complete, correct me if a got something wrong.


I really like the added falg there is definitly enough space for it, it adds a lot to the city fighting just as many of us asked for!
What bothers me are those Two M36, I ahve know idea why the allied team needs them. The Kt spawns only n a certain situation and the allies always get there tow M36. Nowadays you almost see asmuch M36s as Sherman when you defend the Farm. Maybe its different when defending other outposts, but number if M36 you have to deal with is generally far to hight. I am pretty sure theere is no historical background for having that much tankdestroyers there. And again no ganeplay reason I could think of. replacing one of those with a 76mm Sherman again would be totally fine, its enough to counter the Jagppanther/Panther.

What also bothers me is the space west ontop of the cliffs above the road. Of course the tanks could get killed often by German infantry on the road, but as I stated in pre 2.45 time they could team up with a spquad or drive to already capured falgs, do what a Sherman is designed for, supporting infantry! No the tanks are mostly on the cliffs and they can get to far away from the road, infantry no has to sit back looking at the camp fest between the tankers of bowth sides driving around the cliffs. Also the allied tanks can easiely rape the German spawn from there which is probably the worst thing of them all, while the german infantry is out of range to get the tanks down. The situation with two M36s camping the farm while making no attempt to cap i happens far tooften lately!

I would close this area completly again or atleast close it caompletly when the allied tanks arrive at the farm.


Offline Kwiot

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #27 on: 05-09-2012, 16:09:45 »
I don't the idea with spawns on the cliffs - it's often impossible to get to the town back because someone is camping and killing those poor guys who can be seen like on the open hand...

Offline Cbarr

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #28 on: 16-09-2012, 19:09:37 »
I think this map needs a change to the starting point maybe place the Germans on the small out crop and try to advance across the bridges and fight over the bridges.

Offline gavrant

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Re: Meuse River 64
« Reply #29 on: 09-04-2014, 11:04:43 »
2.46 changelog for Meuse River 64

According to the will of the people, the map got reverted to its 2.4 state with 4 capture-able flags layout with the following additional changes:
  • Removed all artillery except for the mortars.
  • The Americans get reinforced by the M36 (in addition to the plane) if the Germans control all the flags.
  • Added the common Willys to the Americans (in addition to the rocket one).
  • The Germans get reinforced by the King Tiger (in addition to the plane) if the Americans control all the flags.
  • Winter skins for all vehicles.
  • Slightly moved some spawn points at City Hall to prevent spawn raping from the other side of the river.

Minimap for reference:
« Last Edit: 09-04-2014, 17:04:36 by gavrant »