Better AA

[Harmonikater]

I would love to see different areas of planes taking more or less damage, but i think the amount of time coding that would take, and considering how it would affect only a very small part of the players on the server, it's probably not in the books. Time would be better spent on something that affects more players imo. (like getting out Eastern Front!)

Unless (hopefully) we'll some day get big flying maps again like Bombing the Reich or Battle of Britain, etc 
But of course its up to the devs to make the final desicion on that.

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

An honest question - before even thinking about making it easier to shoot down planes, can we think of a way (or should we think of a way) to make the average player use the AA we already have more effectively? I've been playing FH2 for less than a month (although I played FH1 for several years), so I don't want to get too high on myself, but in my opinion the AA is more than easy enough to use, but the average public player is just terrible at using them.

If I had to guess I'd say that in a Bofors, I make 3-4 out of every 10 shots hit a plane. Higher, obviously, for Stukas and Junkers and lower for fighters, but I think it would be fair to say I can nail planes with the Bofors at a 30% clip. But I have already seen, on multiple occasions, players sitting in the Bofors all round and hardly hitting anything. A few days ago we played Crete on I believe 762, and I sat in the Vickers building in Maleme next to the 2-pounder and the Bofors. I don't know who was in the Bofors, and I don't know because he didn't kill anyone for nearly ten minutes. I wasn't watching everything he did, it was true, I was mostly looking for paratroopers, but every time a plane came up he'd empty clips into it and as far as I saw didn't even get a hit, in nearly a quarter of an hour. He certainly didn't get a kill. A week or so ago I was hanging around Monastry on Olympus and a similar sort of thing happened. Repeated Stuka attacks went unhindered because the guy in the Bofors didn't seem to know how to lead a target.

I'm not the kind of guy to get angry at another player using a weapon or a vehicle I wanted, but I was having a hard time not saying anything in the teamchat. I apologize if I sound a little arrogant, there is not much in FH I am very good at but I'm not too shabby with AA guns and I don't understand why no one else is, because if it's easy for me, it should be a piece of cake for nearly everyone.

What is everyone's experience of manning AA guns or watching others do it?

[VonMudra]

One thing I often notice is that people don't know how to lead a plane that is coming towards you in a dive.  I see many people shooting above the  plane, thinking they're leading it, instead of aiming below the plane.  So instead of the rounds striking the plane, they just fly over top of it.

[therenas]

Back after one week without internet:

So make some things clear:

I see one real problem with AA: AA positions are fixed, experienced players know where they are... they can plan and do their attack run from the long run with all the time they want...
The AA gunner is a sitting duck, which can be attacked from 360° horizontal and up to 90° vertical (you can easily differ good from bad pilot by the vertical angle from which they attack)... I don't mind damage done on on the plane... in fact I think its quite fair in that point... one short salvo of those HE guns on the planes will kill the gunner and one or two shots of an AA gun can kill most planes... but against experiences pilots you never get the change to aim and shoot before you are killed. You hear a faint engine sound and then you're dead... if you were lucky you could get a glimpse on what you killed before you go down.

The only other thing I could think of to improve the AA gunners chances is a slow radar against planes for all stationary AA... yes highly unrealistic, but that way both sides would know from where the attack comes... I would make the radar with a large radius, but slow turning so that there are still chances, that a plane can sneak in at full speed if it chooses the right time... the radar would not be able to warn you from all planes or early enough, but it would be useful from time to time so that plane and AA gun would have similar chances to score a kill...

[Flyboy1942]

I dont think the radar is a very good idea, even though I understand you are suggesting it to overcome a gameplay issue. It would be impossible to truly balance, and would be entirely out of historical correctness. A lot of people play the game for WWII immersion, and this would ruin that.

Personally, I use headphones, which allows for a 3D sense of the soundscape, and lets me know the general direction the plane is coming from so I can be ready. I tend to fair evenly against even the good pilots, because I stick it out. Although I may die the first time they attack, I stick it out and repair the gun, wait for them to fly overhead, then get on the gun and set up for their next pass. The good pilots usually have noticed the gun on the minimap and know it is manned, and we see eachother at roughly the same time when they clear the fog. In general it is an even possibility at this point, and a matter of skill and luck.

You can't expect this even shootout from the get go every time. Good pilots will attack the AA from unexpected directions on the first pass. It is then your duty to respawn, repair, and reman the gun to drive them off. By this time you should have an idea where they are. If you can kill the attacking plane(s) as often as they kill you, and in the meantime, keep them occupied and distracted from your fellow team mates, you're doing it right.

A few times I found it more productive to hang out near the AA in a separate trench, let them attack it, then run over and jump in while they set up to attack other friendly units in the area.

[kingtiger1891]

The view distance in FH2 is so unrealisticlly short while the AA damage on planes is realistic, a "better AA" is not needed.

[therenas]

The view distance in FH2 is so unrealisticlly short while the AA damage on planes is realistic, a "better AA" is not needed.

You are contradictory... it is all about the low view range... if planes could be seen from further away (at least far enough so that the plane cannot already attack once it gets in view), there everything would be fine...

[THeTA0123]

The view distance in FH2 is so unrealisticlly short while the AA damage on planes is realistic, a "better AA" is not needed.

AA damage realistic? have you seen how quickly a MG42 gunner can bring down any plane on maps like Cobra?

sorry but rifle sized machine gun bullets do way to much damage...
Many german warplanes returned home safely despite the huge amount of .303 bullet holes, wich came from Spitfire and hurricane MKI's during the battle of britain

[LuckyOne]

I find AAA defenses perfect, you can bring down a plane in 2 seconds while he's distracted doing something else... If he comes straight after you... Well I suppose it's time to take cover instead of trying to win a 1 on 1 fight...

[kingtiger1891]

The view distance in FH2 is so unrealisticlly short while the AA damage on planes is realistic, a "better AA" is not needed.

AA damage realistic? have you seen how quickly a MG42 gunner can bring down any plane on maps like Cobra?

sorry but rifle sized machine gun bullets do way to much damage...
Many german warplanes returned home safely despite the huge amount of .303 bullet holes, wich came from Spitfire and hurricane MKI's during the battle of britain

That's the point, AA damage on planes are high enough, thus no need to have "better AA".

[Rustysteel]

Why are static weapons showing up empty on the minimap? I cant remember them showing up in vanilla BF2 so why do they show up in FH2? Are they classed as vehicles or something? That is a big give away to vehicles that a stationary gun is in use, just check the minimap and if there's no icon you know it's manned. Plane/Tank can plan ahead static guy just has to react, a wee bit unfair imo.

[ajappat]

Why are static weapons showing up empty on the minimap? I cant remember them showing up in vanilla BF2 so why do they show up in FH2? Are they classed as vehicles or something? That is a big give away to vehicles that a stationary gun is in use, just check the minimap and if there's no icon you know it's manned. Plane/Tank can plan ahead static guy just has to react, a wee bit unfair imo.

Yep, this is true. Just today I was messing around in Leptokaria flag on Olympos. For long time I didn't see any planes near this flag, though they were all in use because my friends were flying and it was pretty clear they were getting owned by bf109's. So I desided to repair our flak vierling and about 10 seconds after I had manned it, I got strafed by plane and our AA was wreck again. I could bet their pilot was monitoring his map about AA positions. 

Also, why are some static gun positions visible in map even when they are destroyed and some are not?

[CHRISTIEFRONTDRIVE]

^ I was there, and that was the impression I got as well. I also have a minimap question borne from that eventful defense of Leptokaria: why do some vehicles show up blue even when empty, and others grey? My guess would be that the ones that are grey (jeeps, static guns, APCs, etc.) are ones the enemy can jump into, and the ones that are blue are locked for enemy soldiers. Is this a BF2 feature or an FH2 feature? It can be kind of confusing sometimes, at a flag like Leptokaria where a lot of vehicles spawn right next to each other, it looks like they're all manned but most of them aren't.

[ajappat]

Yes, blue vehicles/static guns are team locked and never show on enemies map unless they spot it with binocs.

[ballard44]

Is this a BF2 feature or an FH2 feature?

That the PCO icons are blue when team locked but unoccupied is a FH2 thing and is confusing. Needs to be changed back, IMO.